This is very sad that still people attempt to publicly abuse the system of ED visas. In Despertely Seeking - Bangkok DCBKK Facebook group someone is making a post "Cheapest language school which offers ED visa ( I need visa but don't want to visit classes)" lots of replies! The ED visa system works very well so let's hope that some schools in order to make a quick buck will not destroy a visa system that so many honest students are using to stay in Thailand long term and pursue their language studies. At Walen School we are interested in doing honest school business as this is in the best long term interest of our students.

Let's just cancel all Ed Visas for Thai language studies as anyone who wants to learn Thai can take classes at their local Thai temple in Farangland.

^ or approve only University Studies

@MacW, for once I totally agree with what you said

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

A simple and effective clampdown would be to have "students" sit for a basic language test prior to renewal

If one were to really have attended classes, surely they would pass a kindergarten test!

somtam palah

A simple and effective clampdown would be to have "students" sit for a basic language test prior to renewal

If one were to really have attended classes, surely they would pass a kindergarten test!

somtam palah

Agreed

Let's just cancel all Ed Visas for Thai language studies as anyone who wants to learn Thai can take classes at their local Thai temple in Farangland.

Our local Thai temple in Farangland is run by two English monks.

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Edited March 1, 201412 yr by Metapod

Removed an off-topic post about retirement visas.

A simple and effective clampdown would be to have "students" sit for a basic language test prior to renewal

If one were to really have attended classes, surely they would pass a kindergarten test!

somtam palah

I agree!

Unfortunately it would open another avenuse for corruption, "how much do you pay me to pass the exam"?

From Post #9 above: The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate.

Maybe that is by design rather than by oversight.

M.O.E all ready do test on student, sure it is not all, or that many student, but they do it, sometimes when you renew you have to go to M.O.E and pass the test, or you get turn down for 1 more year.

It is a very "easy" test, and IF people go to school, all can complete it.

Maybe more control from Immigration office on the school ??

When i was a school in Nonthaburi, the Immigration come and check if we come and sign in on the days we have giving them paper for.

They come and take photo of us read, writing, practice with teacher. and one time on Video.

They sit down with us and ask us in Thai.

What you name

How old are you

Are you married

you have GF

How long you being in Thailand.

You like Thai food

And so on, small things that i for one think is fair, and that one know after 6-12 month.

I see 4 student there get the Ed-Ext cancel because they don´t show up, don´t speak any Thai after 6 month.

No my school is in Bangkok and NO control at all there.

Every school i go to, Or be to a free class at, don´t have problem with student come or not, sure they don´t write it on the internet, but when talk to them no problem at all.

But when you come and talk to them, and tell them you have tight schedule, they say no problem at all, we make sure you get your paper and ED-Ext.

So for me the problem is both that so many here have to use ED because no other option because they not 50 years, and so many school don´t care about it and "fix" everything for one, they only think of the money.

Lets face facts here, until the abolition of the 30 day border entry with unlimited visits, E.D visas were almost unheard of. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that language schools have opened up on a massive scale to cater for long stayers that are not retired. working, married etc. that previously used this option.

Even the OPs business has seen a number of offices open to accoommodate these people. Maybe a "crackdown' is needed with immigration officials making regular visits and audits

Just to add, the main marketing of language schools, including the OPs is along the lines of " Free ED Visa, 3 Year visa available, want to stay in Thailand lond term etc" If any were a genuine school, surely the marketing would be something similar to, "competent teachers, learning materials included, learn to spaek Thai within 3 months etc

Edited March 2, 201412 yr by PattayaPhom

Lets face facts here, until the abolition of the 30 day border entry with unlimited visits, E.D visas were almost unheard of. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that language schools have opened up on a massive scale to cater for long stayers that are not retired. working, married etc. that previously used this option.

Even the OPs business has seen a number of offices open to accoommodate these people. Maybe a "crackdown' is needed with immigration officials making regular visits and audits

Just to add, the main marketing of language schools, including the OPs is along the lines of " Free ED Visa, 3 Year visa available, want to stay in Thailand lond term etc" If any were a genuine school, surely the marketing would be something similar to, "competent teachers, learning materials included, learn to spaek Thai within 3 months etc

Before the 15 day rule 30 day entries were not unlimited. There was a rule that limited them to 90 days over a 6 month period.

Even before that change in 2008 there were lots of people going to language schools. The big change is the numbers of schools offering classes in more locations. With many not being the most scrupulous in their operations.

At the moment I stay on six-months tourist visas plus extensions which is a bit of a hassle, so yearly Ed visas would be much better. I have no intention to cheat the Ed visa system. I would obviously prefer a retirement visa but I can't meet the financial requirements although I do have enough money to support myself here.

So my question is, which is the cheapest language school in Chiang Mai that offers ED visa support, and I definitely do want to attend classes and learn Thai. I have done a bit of internet research but schools don't always give prices and I don't know if all the schools are listed.

Any recommendations gratefully received thankyou.

At the moment I stay on six-months tourist visas plus extensions which is a bit of a hassle, so yearly Ed visas would be much better. I have no intention to cheat the Ed visa system. I would obviously prefer a retirement visa but I can't meet the financial requirements although I do have enough money to support myself here.

So my question is, which is the cheapest language school in Chiang Mai that offers ED visa support, and I definitely do want to attend classes and learn Thai. I have done a bit of internet research but schools don't always give prices and I don't know if all the schools are listed.

Any recommendations gratefully received thankyou.

Don't know if it's the cheapest, but MacWalen seems to be the strongest candidate and very helpful from feedback I've had.

At the moment I stay on six-months tourist visas plus extensions which is a bit of a hassle, so yearly Ed visas would be much better. I have no intention to cheat the Ed visa system. I would obviously prefer a retirement visa but I can't meet the financial requirements although I do have enough money to support myself here.

So my question is, which is the cheapest language school in Chiang Mai that offers ED visa support, and I definitely do want to attend classes and learn Thai. I have done a bit of internet research but schools don't always give prices and I don't know if all the schools are listed.

Any recommendations gratefully received thankyou.

You could look on this forum and/or do a topic with your questions there. Language school courses

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Yes, and this being Thailand, common sense does not prevail.

Dear OP... how many hours of classes per day does a student need to attend at one of your esteemed learning institutions to qualify for an Education Visa?

And at what percentage level of absenteeism do you report the students to immigration to protect the genuine learners from the side-effects of those nefarious individuals who didn't really come to Thailand just to study Thai language?

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Though on the surface I agree with you, there is a problem within this country for those who do not wish to work, do not need to work, who do not wish to leave vast sums of money in a Thai bank, get married, or have a child. That leaves doing visa runs or even abusing the system that is long due for an over haul the only way to be able to stay. Personally I hate the visa run. It is silly that Thailand requires you to do it in the first place. For I would be far happier to spend the money that I would have to in another country, doing said run, here. Why not make that an option. For in the end it would give more money to Thailand. But as said, "Thai laws are made by Thais"... so are we simply to think that way... Thai style. No reason? It is stupid.

All the system now offers is a confusing array of visa applications, rules to follow, and choices to make with regards to the loop holes that are there and so easy to take advantage of. Then there is the question of the graft that is rampant here in LOS. I happen to know that where I live the immigration office will 'help you' get the visa you want as long as you are willing to 'play their game'. I will not say anymore than that.

So though the system on Ed Visas is tightening... that term can only be loosely applied. It has always been the easiest way of bucking the system and in so doing making it far more difficult for those that are really wanting to be a real student here. The problem is that this system has been in place for years and the only real change has been the one regarding G7 country citizens getting 30-days when crossing borders by land into Thailand back last November (2013) and who knows how long that one will stand the test of time.

I do not have to work. I am not, however, independently wealth. My money that I worked for is invested in the US and in the EU and I live off of the dividends and interests I receive from those investments in the US. Placing any of it into a Thai bank is beyond silly as it will do nothing except sit there and I would not even have the abilities that any western bank offers (like transferring it back and forth as needed via wire transfers and the like without having to jump through even more hoops). I choose not to work while I am here and live from one 60-day (extended by an additional 30) to another. A Non-whatever or having to marry into this Thai community with its pay-for-bride mentality (that no Thai really has to do, or at least to the extent that we would have to) is nuts. It is 2014 and the ASEAN Community is around the corner that they hope the rest of the world (western or not) will play along with.

Cultural issues are all very well and good and have their place, but remember Thailand that elephants also used to be the main source of heavy equipment... not anymore.

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

Let me be totally and brutally honest. BIG F***ING DEAL! If you want to come to Thailand and live, you play by the rules - THEIR RULES and live with it or get out. What would you say if someone came to your country and tried the same shit?

Dear OP... how many hours of classes per day does a student need to attend at one of your esteemed learning institutions to qualify for an Education Visa?

And at what percentage level of absenteeism do you report the students to immigration to protect the genuine learners from the side-effects of those nefarious individuals who didn't really come to Thailand just to study Thai language?

The ED visa applicant will find out just how many hours it takes when they show up for a visa renewal and cannot converse with the immigration officer in simple Thai...and gets ordered to leave.

ed visa are just a visa option,for some one unable to get any other visa..most dont study..and some cant not even talk there own language very good...555

I still cannot get my head around the fact that a foreigner can get an ED visa to come to Thailand and learn Spanish......Who/what Thai immigration officer can test what you have learned.

Am I wrong to have a ?.........?

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

I agree with Walen... You choose to live here, well do it by the letter of the law so go speak. You want to live in Thailand, then you should be interested in learning Thai and its culture and pay the 25,000 baht that a reputable school normally charges. Any advice to the contrary or illegal as is this poster suggesting should be removed. The people of Thailand want a Democratic country free from corruption. Posts and people who help this poster don't help. Walen Schools are well known I would say by the majority to be one of the best facilitators of learning Thai and a very well known and long established company. If you don't want to play by the rules don't stuff it up for everyone else. A shameful thread indeed IMO.

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

really mature post.

" That leaves doing visa runs or even abusing the system that is long due for an over haul the only way to be able to stay. Personally I hate the visa run. It is silly that Thailand requires you to do it in the first place."

Thailand doesn't require it, you are doing the runs to circumvent the rules. Every western country has immigration laws as does Thailand. Just because you believe you should be able to live wherever the hell in the world you want doesn't make it so.

The rules are there to ensure foreigners don't take Thai jobs or are able to support themselves without being a burden. Are there holes in the immigration act? I think yes, but so there are in every country. Learn to live with it but don't flaunt the rules.

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

Because the OP actually runs a language school and is complaining:o although living here a number of years I attended 3 hrs a week for 6 months and am proficient enough in reading, writing and oral skills. Why does it need 5 years to learn a language. The first question my school asked was how long do I want a visa, no question on level or preferred hours. As said all the marketing ALL schools do us geared towards offering visas. I'd someone is prepared to pay almost 40k a year just for a visa that is their choice

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