We favour a democratic Lanna republic, Chiang Mai group says

[MAJIC]

I thought this Secession business is illegal! and carries a heavy sentence.

[wolf5370]

This group is as representative of Northern Thai public opinion as the the Tonbridge Wells Nazi Party is of UK public opinion. Chiang Mai isn't going anywhere.

Maybe not next week, but don't underestimate how few supporters are needed to cause serious trouble.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!

...or large groups to suck the intelligence right out of the members - mob mentality.

[Evolare]

4 out of 6 is 66,6667% not 80%.

And maybe he only asked how many of his redshirt friends well i wouldnt be surprised on the outcome but i doubt they have asked any of the others if they support them. This just shows you how desperate they are....abd unimaginative.

PDRL...sounds and looks awfully similar to PDRC i think lot of people could have been confused when asked in the survey if they support PDRL thought they where talking about PDRC...555

who knows...its hot in Bangkok right now

[Jingthing]

This group is a small group of radicals. But such radicals should be taken seriously for anyone who looks at world history.

[Thai at Heart]

Hmmm.landlocked country with hostile neighbour controlling all the trade and transport links. Yep, that'll work.

It would not be land locked

Looks land locked to me.

Can you explain why it is not?

You mean you haven't you seen Plodrasop's plans for a high speed canal?

Maybe they would join up with Burma so they could feel wealthy.....

[SICHONSTEVE]

"He said there were three factors behind the idea of setting up a "Republic of Lanna". Firstly, people in the North were looked down upon by others, with the PDRC often referring to red shirts as "red water buffaloes". Secondly, the opposing group did not respect the law and there were double standards in the judicial system. The third reason, he said, was the undemocratic aspirations of the PDRC.

Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity, Petchawat noted."

This has been repeated to death over and over by Abhisit and later Suthep.

Touch any Thai on his head and let' see how you will end.

The same goes for the name calling "buffalo".

If this people are "dumb" and "can not vote". educate them instead of barring them of a basic constitutional right.

And the idea of an independent "Lanna" state goes further as Chiang Mai.

Most of Issaan are for pro for that idea.

If the idea of an Lanna country would come trough, Bangkok would be nothing more than a piece of land sinking fast in the sea.

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

Yes independent Lanna and Isaan are popular ideas because those proposing the ideas forgot to tell anyone who is financing everything up there. I bet the idea would be alot less popular if those people realised that it is actually not Thaksin, but the tax payers in Bangkok and the south who is paying for their schools, hospitals, roads and rice, and that independence might, or at least should, stop the money flow.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money - Margaret Thatcher

Blimey!!! I never thought that I would dish out a like to a posting that shows thatcher saying something that I agree with (in light of Thailand's situation, that is)!!

Edited March 2, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[Pimay1]

This Chiang Mai group would fit in well with the red necks with axe handles in their truck windows back in Western Kentucky where I came from. It appears they were given a low dose of soma.

[Thaiready]

this people so stupid.

go away from my country please !!

I guess you are from BKK and that is why you are calling them stupid and looking down on them.

You know he or it is a BKK elite.....he even thinks his poop don't stink..

[ScouseTommy]

If Yingluck, and by the looks of it when, Yingluck goes the North breaking away would pretty much be the only thing stopping Thailand from falling apart at the seams and serious blood being spilled.

This has been quoted in the context of some kind of breakaway group that only involves the people of the North, which kind misses the wider picture of the feelings of the people in the Northeast.

If the people of Bangkok want to govern themselves and are willing to come out on the streets to remove an elected government, then the people of the North have the same right.

A form of devolution doesn't just make sense, it's pretty much the only way out of this mess without serious bloodshed.

I am not red or yellow, both camps have leaders that would do the country a favour if they dropped dead tomorrow. But this is payback time for Bangkok for years of neglecting the common people, they only have them selves to blame, or to congratulate, whichever way you look at it I guess.

Sorry, I think you are completely wrong! Do you honestly think Thailand, the army, the Monarchy, for that matter a PTP government would let the north secede? If they tried it then I think we would really see serious blood being spilled. I for one have seen enough death, and have no wish to see more! You are right when you say BKK has taken too much money from the country and ignored the North and North East. That does need to be remedied, by a non corrupt gov't. Unfortunately PTP were too busy feeding at the cash trough to help the people. Also payback time??? Who pays the taxes that fund all of the hospitals and schools in the rural north? It certainly isnt the north, it is BKK. Sadly I can't see the current crisis ending well, and I have no real answers to it. However secession or devolution would not help. They would in fact (probably..) start a civil war, and if that happened there would truly be no winners.

[fullcave]

Hmmm….landlocked country with hostile neighbour controlling all the trade and transport links. Yep, that'll work.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It would not be land locked, would control much of the raw product Bangkok needs to function water, labor, electrical power, rice etc.

You must have not understood what was stated, if Bangkok wanted an "appointed dictatorship", which most of democratic Thailand will not agree to!

Cheers

"appointed dictatorship”? Who’s the dictator going to be Suthep?

Edited March 2, 2014 by fullcave

[eddie61]

Australia manages pretty well with seven federal states, one federal capital and a distant Monarch as head of state

Thailand would not do worse with devolved powers for Isaan, the North, Central and South and maybe South East, with foreign policy and central government provided by Bangkok.

Capital and labour would flow to the states with the cleanest government, lowest taxes, and best practices.

Even small countries such as Switzerland with three languages is a federation. The UK similarly recognises the regional differences between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I think its a great idea, worth serious consideration

[Thait Spot]

I see the RTA has asked for legal action against the secessionist movements.

Found some placards relating to the new country of Isaan-Lanna

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dcutman]

I thought this Secession business is illegal! and carries a heavy sentence.

Its got the attention of Gen Prayuth now, and legal proceedings have started.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Australia manages pretty well with seven federal states, one federal capital and a distant Monarch as head of state

Thailand would not do worse with devolved powers for Isaan, the North, Central and South and maybe South East, with foreign policy and central government provided by Bangkok.

Capital and labour would flow to the states with the cleanest government, lowest taxes, and best practices.

Even small countries such as Switzerland with three languages is a federation. The UK similarly recognises the regional differences between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I think its a great idea, worth serious consideration

Good suggestion!!!

The only problem with this is it is Thailand we are talking about and they don't have 'good' experience in dealing with complicated systems (well, complicated for them that is).

[Davidhere]

.

On the other hand the Lanna state would be unburdened by things like military and Bangkok oriented government spending, which is the lyons share of this countries budget.

Do you really consider 1.5% to be the lyons [sic] share?

I think most rational people wouldn't agree that it is.

Military expenditure (% of GDP) by country

Thailand 1.5

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

[pkspeaker]

Human rights watch has called out the upperhouse and royalist appointed courts that keep sacking PPP and then PhuaThai as a 'tribunal' and a product of the previous coup-something that is not a real court but rather a pre-judging tribunal, NOTICE Thaksin was NEVER convicted of these crimes before the coup, even though there were riots on the steets calling for his head, AND he was convicted of vague charges like abuse of power and 'fraud' for transfering assets to family members, something all multimillionaires do. Another PPP PM was sacked for going on a cooking show for fuks sake.

The 'rice scam' as you call it is a farm subsidy, all developed countries have farm subsidies, the government has defended it by claioming it doesn't really cost that much more than Abhisits Farmers Insurance scheme, and that Thai rice farmers are poorer than in countries with smaller economies.

Yingluck is being charged with dereliction of duty , again a vague charge, because the NaCC claims that the program had 'corruption' in it. As PM and the cabinet sets policy, policy it is 'policed' at a different level of government, so saying she is in dereliction of duty is kinda like saying she's incompetent - this is not a case of 'graft' which is what the NaCC is supposed to be prosecuting , rather the NaCC blatantly takes this PAD/PDRC position that the voters are too stupid to elect someone who is an idiot, so it has to over-ride them.

They are also said to be pressing a 'corruption' case against more than 300 MPs for simply voting for an amendment that would have made the upper house of parliament fully elected instead of half elected, the amendment passed but was shot down by the constitution court and so the change was not put into law, but then the NaCC decides that that too is a case of corruption. So merely voting for an amendment to the constitution that would make the parliament more democratic is an act of 'graft'. Just one ridiculous case after another, and of course the corruption cases against the Democrat party are not fast-tracked like the ones against the PPP/PhuaThai party, instead they are slowtracked to the point at which cases against Abhist when he was premier more than 2 years ago, have gone no where, where as Yinglucks case was started after the protests started and is almost at the indictment stage.

What these people are asking is not as extreme as people think judging from the reactionary posts on this thread.

All they are asking for is limited autonomy, they clearly said they support the king as head of state, which means Lanna is still part of Thailand but an autonomous region.

First of all, usually it is THE MINORITY that tries to break away from a majority by sectioning off part of the country where they are the majority. Why would a majority give away part of it's country when it can just rule over the whole thing?

In this case the northern group has said that they only take this position IF democracy is in effect being defeated by an endless cycle of bigmoney and military backed judicial coups-a system that was put into place by a military coup in 2006. Every outside observer sees the courts like the NaCC are ridiculously biased against the ruling PhuaThai party, and it doesn't exactly close the credibility gap when the NaCC starts creating and then fasttracking cases after the recent protests started..

This group may back away from this position when they realize just how much they stand to lose financially if the separation takes place, forcing a HongKongish type state in the south, small but rich.

On the other hand the Lanna state would be unburdened by things like military and Bangkok oriented government spending, which is the lyons share of this countries budget.

It all depends on the specifics of the separation agreement, and could the agreement ever be agreed upon? BIG ? there, ​how would you get the 2 sides to agree to all tha when they can't amicably share power under the current single-rupublic system?

I'm an outside observer - but I think your views about the NACC are reflective of attempts to pervert the course of justice by attacking the process and people involved rather than providing a defense to the accusations.

The rice scam would still have been the rice scam regardless of the protests. The difference is if PTP had got their hands on the 2.2 trillion they could have covered it all up easier.

Unless of course you belong to the camp that wants to dismiss Thaksin's fraud conviction, his 15 or so outstanding criminal charges, all charges against his sister, various relations and family members, members of PTP, its MP"s and well shuffled cabinet as "politically" motivated, then up to you,

[Davidhere]

If this people are "dumb" and "can not vote". educate them instead of barring them of a basic constitutional right.

Tell Yingluck's Education ministry which has squandered Billions of Baht from their budget on worthless tablets. There's no easier sign to observe that the CM Elite are not interested in educating the populace.

Wasn't Thaksin the Education minister for 5 years? What progress was made during that time?

Much shorter time; perhaps 6 months. He thought so little of education that he thought he could be Education Minister as a moonlighting, part-time, second job while he was Prime Minister.

Yingluck has followed in that tradition of having extremely little regard for education as evidenced by her unprecedented SIX different Education Minister during her time in office and throwing away a huge portion of the education budget on cheap tablets, millions of which have been undelivered.

It's clearly evident that the CM Elite understand the need to not raise the education level of those that need it the most, the poor rural base that is the foundation of their support.

The irony of their supporters here clamoring that other non-Thaksin administrations have kept these people down ignores the many years of Thaksin, Samak, Somchai, and Yingluck doing diddly squat to improve the education of Thailand. The four of them collectively have ruled Thailand for the vast majority of the last 15 years.

.

[ratcatcher]

Australia manages pretty well with seven federal states, one federal capital and a distant Monarch as head of state

Thailand would not do worse with devolved powers for Isaan, the North, Central and South and maybe South East, with foreign policy and central government provided by Bangkok.

Capital and labour would flow to the states with the cleanest government, lowest taxes, and best practices.

Even small countries such as Switzerland with three languages is a federation. The UK similarly recognises the regional differences between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I think its a great idea, worth serious consideration

You are talking about governmental divisions (provinces/states) within one united country like Australia or Canada. That's fine.

Thailand with devolved powers with a similar structure to the United Kingdom with Queen Elizabeth as head of state would probably work.

What the Chiang Mai group want is complete separation from the Kingdom of Thailand with H.M. the King as head of state.

What they want is their own Republic of Lanna / Isaan with Thaksin as President.

That is treasonous and is being dealt with by the head of the army.

[Mosha]

Hmmm….landlocked country with hostile neighbour controlling all the trade and transport links. Yep, that'll work.

It would not be land locked

Looks land locked to me.

Can you explain why it is not?

You mean you haven't you seen Plodrasop's plans for a high speed canal?

They hope rising sea levels will provide them with an Indian Ocean sea front.

[slipperylobster]

Not a bad option....to appease the lower classes in Chiang Mai. They would not have many musicians left, I fear.

Ba- Lan- Na Republic of Chiang Mai. Has a ring to it

[ratcatcher]

Wow so much hatred on this site. Don't think I'll be here long.

Looks like democracy is onlly allowed here if mr Abhisit is in power.

The army are struggling in the south against a few hundred terrorists. what makes anybody think they could put down a movement this large in the North.

Ah well. Enjoy your rabid posts against the Government. see you tomorrow.

"Wow so much hatred on this site. Don't think I'll be here long."

jenny, whoa, easy girl....

What we have here is some spirited banter mixed with some acidic troll posts.

However, there's a saying "If you can't stand the heat get out of the bitchin'"

[eddie61]

Australia manages pretty well with seven federal states, one federal capital and a distant Monarch as head of state

Thailand would not do worse with devolved powers for Isaan, the North, Central and South and maybe South East, with foreign policy and central government provided by Bangkok.

Capital and labour would flow to the states with the cleanest government, lowest taxes, and best practices.

Even small countries such as Switzerland with three languages is a federation. The UK similarly recognises the regional differences between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I think its a great idea, worth serious consideration

You are talking about governmental divisions (provinces/states) within one united country like Australia or Canada. That's fine.

Thailand with devolved powers with a similar structure to the United Kingdom with Queen Elizabeth as head of state would probably work.

What the Chiang Mai group want is complete separation from the Kingdom of Thailand with H.M. the King as head of state.

What they want is their own Republic of Lanna / Isaan with Thaksin as President.

That is treasonous and is being dealt with by the head of the army.

I agree that the Lanna proposal is the work off braindead nutcases, and Thailand is certainly not short of that strain. However, I do think a "middle way" solution has merit

Edited March 2, 2014 by eddie61

[mrmicbkktxl]

Petchawat Wattanapongsirikul and his Chiang mai friends will be arrested for les majesté very soon.

Nice democratic country with great laws!!!!!You don't like a guy report him for LM

[Davidhere]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

Refer to Post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707965-we-favour-a-democratic-lanna-republic-chiang-mai-group-says/page-13#entry7512352

All of your comments apply much more so to the Shinawatra administrations.

[Mosha]

Human rights watch has called out the upperhouse and royalist appointed courts that keep sacking PPP and then PhuaThai as a 'tribunal' and a product of the previous coup-something that is not a real court but rather a pre-judging tribunal, NOTICE Thaksin was NEVER convicted of these crimes before the coup, even though there were riots on the steets calling for his head, AND he was convicted of vague charges like abuse of power and 'fraud' for transfering assets to family members, something all multimillionaires do. Another PPP PM was sacked for going on a cooking show for fuks sake.

The 'rice scam' as you call it is a farm subsidy, all developed countries have farm subsidies, the government has defended it by claioming it doesn't really cost that much more than Abhisits Farmers Insurance scheme, and that Thai rice farmers are poorer than in countries with smaller economies.

Yingluck is being charged with dereliction of duty , again a vague charge, because the NaCC claims that the program had 'corruption' in it. As PM and the cabinet sets policy, policy it is 'policed' at a different level of government, so saying she is in dereliction of duty is kinda like saying she's incompetent - this is not a case of 'graft' which is what the NaCC is supposed to be prosecuting , rather the NaCC blatantly takes this PAD/PDRC position that the voters are too stupid to elect someone who is an idiot, so it has to over-ride them.

They are also said to be pressing a 'corruption' case against more than 300 MPs for simply voting for an amendment that would have made the upper house of parliament fully elected instead of half elected, the amendment passed but was shot down by the constitution court and so the change was not put into law, but then the NaCC decides that that too is a case of corruption. So merely voting for an amendment to the constitution that would make the parliament more democratic is an act of 'graft'. Just one ridiculous case after another, and of course the corruption cases against the Democrat party are not fast-tracked like the ones against the PPP/PhuaThai party, instead they are slowtracked to the point at which cases against Abhist when he was premier more than 2 years ago, have gone no where, where as Yinglucks case was started after the protests started and is almost at the indictment stage.

What these people are asking is not as extreme as people think judging from the reactionary posts on this thread.

All they are asking for is limited autonomy, they clearly said they support the king as head of state, which means Lanna is still part of Thailand but an autonomous region.

First of all, usually it is THE MINORITY that tries to break away from a majority by sectioning off part of the country where they are the majority. Why would a majority give away part of it's country when it can just rule over the whole thing?

In this case the northern group has said that they only take this position IF democracy is in effect being defeated by an endless cycle of bigmoney and military backed judicial coups-a system that was put into place by a military coup in 2006. Every outside observer sees the courts like the NaCC are ridiculously biased against the ruling PhuaThai party, and it doesn't exactly close the credibility gap when the NaCC starts creating and then fasttracking cases after the recent protests started..

This group may back away from this position when they realize just how much they stand to lose financially if the separation takes place, forcing a HongKongish type state in the south, small but rich.

On the other hand the Lanna state would be unburdened by things like military and Bangkok oriented government spending, which is the lyons share of this countries budget.

It all depends on the specifics of the separation agreement, and could the agreement ever be agreed upon? BIG ? there, ​how would you get the 2 sides to agree to all tha when they can't amicably share power under the current single-rupublic system?

I'm an outside observer - but I think your views about the NACC are reflective of attempts to pervert the course of justice by attacking the process and people involved rather than providing a defense to the accusations.

The rice scam would still have been the rice scam regardless of the protests. The difference is if PTP had got their hands on the 2.2 trillion they could have covered it all up easier.

Unless of course you belong to the camp that wants to dismiss Thaksin's fraud conviction, his 15 or so outstanding criminal charges, all charges against his sister, various relations and family members, members of PTP, its MP"s and well shuffled cabinet as "politically" motivated, then up to you,

He was found guilty under a PPP administration, one of his creations.

[Davidhere]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

How have the Thaksin proxy parties improved education in the 10 or so years they've been in power since 2001?

By giving cheap tablets to primary school children.

And they couldn't even do that by delivering only a miniscule number compared to the 11 million promised.

.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Petchawat Wattanapongsirikul and his Chiang mai friends will be arrested for les majesté very soon.

Nice democratic country with great laws!!!!!You don't like a guy report him for LM

If he hasn't committed an offence then he can sleep easy in his bed, right???

[djjamie]

"Petchawat said people who prefer dictatorship can move from the northern region to other parts of Thailand"

This guy Can't see the forest for the trees, they are the ones who loves to live under Thaksin's dictatorship. "Democratic" Lanna Republic, yeah dream on.

Thaskin was not a Dictator he won by elections, and formed a cabinet. Check out definition of a Dictator. He allowed other parties to stand against him.Now check out the Pillsbury Dough Boy i North Korea to see what a dictator is, also check out what Thaskin did in his 5 years.

Thaksin's economic policies helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial crisis and substantially reduce poverty. GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006. Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund two years ahead of schedule.

Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.^[63] Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.^[25] Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) ).^[64] The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region. After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.^[65] Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.^[29][30] Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.^[66]

He is a dictator.

In the battle between democracy and dictatorship, democracy has a wide potential base of support (Environmentalists, corn farmer, rubber farmers, rice farmers, medical association, rural teachers, academics, the courts, military, bangkok middle class, business owners, state enterprise staff, civil servants, labor unions, Green Politics group) but offers weak incentives to its defenders. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives to a narrower base (rice farmers). As education raises the benefits of civic participation, it raises the support for more democratic regimes relative to dictatorships. This increases the likelihood of democratic revolutions against dictatorships. This is what is being seen here. A revolution against people that think a vote of 307 - 0 for the amnesty bill when over 60% of the population were against is democratic That think telling phuket that "They will get a convention centre when they start voting for us" is democratic. That think calling the population garbage if they don't agree with you is democratic.

I can tell you all the wonderful things that Kim Jong Il did for North Korea, tell you of the achievements of Al-Bashir did for Sudan (he got over 60% of the vote). But I won't, because achievements are not the signs of a democratic leader.

I suggest that if thaksin was not in power GDP would have grown from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 10.2 trillion baht in 2006. Thailand would have repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund three years ahead of schedule. Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, could have risen by 66% from 2001 to 2006.^[63] Nationwide poverty could have fallen from 21.3% to 7.3%.^[25] Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, could have fallen from .525 in 2000 to .399 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) ).^[64] Public sector debt could have fallen from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 36 per cent in September 2006.^[29][30] Foreign exchange reserves could have tripled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$94 billion in 2006.^[66]

^{So in a way thaksin may have been holding Thailand's potential back. Typical of a dictator.}

Edited March 2, 2014 by djjamie

[Jingthing]

Yes of course dictators can win "elections" too. It is common actually. See: Putin.

In my view, Thailand desperately needs a "third way" movement completely divorced from any current power factions. To be about unity, progress, anti-corruption, pro-democracy, and reconciliation. But a PM who is Thaksin's sister can't possibly be ever seriously considered as capable of leading REAL reconciliation. I see no such leader on the horizon. Tragic for Thailand and not good for expats here either.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[AleG]

Human rights watch has called out the upperhouse and royalist appointed courts that keep sacking PPP and then PhuaThai as a 'tribunal' and a product of the previous coup-something that is not a real court but rather a pre-judging tribunal, NOTICE Thaksin was NEVER convicted of these crimes before the coup, even though there were riots on the steets calling for his head, AND he was convicted of vague charges like abuse of power and 'fraud' for transfering assets to family members, something all multimillionaires do. Another PPP PM was sacked for going on a cooking show for fuks sake.

The 'rice scam' as you call it is a farm subsidy, all developed countries have farm subsidies, the government has defended it by claioming it doesn't really cost that much more than Abhisits Farmers Insurance scheme, and that Thai rice farmers are poorer than in countries with smaller economies.

Yingluck is being charged with dereliction of duty , again a vague charge, because the NaCC claims that the program had 'corruption' in it. As PM and the cabinet sets policy, policy it is 'policed' at a different level of government, so saying she is in dereliction of duty is kinda like saying she's incompetent - this is not a case of 'graft' which is what the NaCC is supposed to be prosecuting , rather the NaCC blatantly takes this PAD/PDRC position that the voters are too stupid to elect someone who is an idiot, so it has to over-ride them.

They are also said to be pressing a 'corruption' case against more than 300 MPs for simply voting for an amendment that would have made the upper house of parliament fully elected instead of half elected, the amendment passed but was shot down by the constitution court and so the change was not put into law, but then the NaCC decides that that too is a case of corruption. So merely voting for an amendment to the constitution that would make the parliament more democratic is an act of 'graft'. Just one ridiculous case after another, and of course the corruption cases against the Democrat party are not fast-tracked like the ones against the PPP/PhuaThai party, instead they are slowtracked to the point at which cases against Abhist when he was premier more than 2 years ago, have gone no where, where as Yinglucks case was started after the protests started and is almost at the indictment stage.

Wow, so many things wrong in that post that I wouldn't even know where to start!

Human rights watch has called out the upperhouse and royalist appointed courts that keep sacking PPP and then PhuaThai as a 'tribunal' and a product of the previous coup-something that is not a real court but rather a pre-judging tribunal

Can you cite the quote from HRW saying that?

"he was convicted of vague charges like abuse of power and 'fraud' for transfering assets to family members, something all multimillionaires do"

Nothing vague about the charges, he signed on a land purchase of state owned land to his wife, multimillionaires do that all the time, but Thaksin was the Prime Minister at that time, if you can't see the difference then... pfeeewww.

"The 'rice scam' as you call it is a farm subsidy, all developed countries have farm subsidies"

Show me one instance of a country having a subsidy meant to buy every single grain of rice (or other commodity) with the aim of driving up the global price of said commodity, shouldn't be difficult since you claim that all developed countries do it.

"the government has defended it by claioming it doesn't really cost that much more than Abhisits Farmers Insurance scheme"

The government is lying, the Democrats program cost around 70-80 Billion Baht per year, the Rice Scheme gos for at least three to four times that, but more importantly it didn't depend in secret G2G deals, didn't collapse the rice export industry, didn't create enormous amounts of unsealable stockpiles, didn't ran out of money and didn't ruin the livelihood of rice farmers.

"Yingluck is being charged with dereliction of duty"

Not surprising since she didn't attend one single meeting of the Rice Commission she was supposed to chair.

"this is not a case of 'graft' which is what the NaCC is supposed to be prosecuting , rather the NaCC blatantly takes this PAD/PDRC position that the voters are too stupid to elect someone who is an idiot, so it has to over-ride them."

I think it would take men in lab coats and electrodes to follow this particular chain of "logic" so I rather not touch it, it may be infectious.

"They are also said to be pressing a 'corruption' case against more than 300 MPs for simply voting for an amendment that would have made the upper house of parliament fully elected instead of half elected, the amendment passed but was shot down by the constitution court and so the change was not put into law"

It wasn't simple for voting an amendment, it was for irregularities in the vote, for example using the ID cards of MPs not present in parliament to cast the votes. In any case just because an alleged illegal act isn't achived is no basis for absolution, hundreds of thousands of people behind bars for attempted this or that can attest to that.

"cases against Abhist when he was premier more than 2 years ago, have gone no where, where as Yinglucks case was started after the protests started and is almost at the indictment stage. "

First of, can you tell us about that case against Abhisit? You speak as if you know the details of his dastardly deeds. Pro-Government posters here have been harping about those cases but seem to be completely unable to provide any details. How odd.

The second part is just a... must not use three letter word... statement contrary to facts. The investigations on the PTP Rice Scheme have been going for more than a year, besides that they are much more urgent because they deal with a policy currently causing enormous damage to the country.

So, in short, congratulations pkspeaker, an outstanding post almost entirely bereft of facts and logic. Good effort.