Are Thai corporation names valid and respected internationally?

[ikebukuro5]

If I have a Thai corporation, will the name be respected around the world?

For example, if my company is ABC, can someone in the USA or Europe register ABC company?

[samran]

Where a company is registered is less important than who the company is.

I suspect if you asked about Thai Bev, Banpu, PTT, Siam Cement and a few others it would matter little that they are registered in Thailand.

What matters most is if the Thai registered company is giving you what you need, whatever that is, and if you are providing your clients the best service.

[besth]

Unless it is a strongly branded name, people in other countries can register the same company name. Most of the time that is done without any ill intention, simply the names are popular.

[Thai at Heart]

The only truly global thai company any is CP and virtually no one knows they are thai.

That's probably why they are respected.

[ikebukuro5]

What I mean is....let's say I develop the brand in Thailand and export to other countries, this is a food company.

Could somebody simply copy the name and start a similar company with my name in foreign countries?

Or would I be protected by company name and brand copyrights internationally?

[LennyW]

A legitimate company has the same protection worldwide, whether it be ABC or Shell, assuming of course you have not imitated a name in the first place.

[ikebukuro5]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

[LennyW]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

They probably could, the issue is when they start selling toothpicks in Thailand under the same name and you start selling toothpicks in Canada using the same name, it will end up in court and the issues will be taken into consideration, but regardless of size it is usually the one that was registered first that wins.

I say usually because many times might overpowers longevity, lets say you have 20 employees with a 500,000 dollar a year turnover, and the Canadian company has 4000 employees with a 50 million dollar a year turnover - who has the might and the means to fight a court case or walk away?

One local example in Pattaya was a famous pub, the pub is still operational with a different name as Harley Davidson did not approve of their original name!!

If a conflict arises it is very easy to change your company name, unless your company name has a direct reference to your actual product then this is usually not a big issue.

[chrisinth]

Register a trademark for your company name.

[Soutpeel]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

No it wouldn't be a copyright violation unless you had registered the company under international copyright laws ie multiple filings in multiple countries, this is what the big MNC do

Therefore if the brand name "McDonald's" wasn't registered by McDonald corp in a specific country, some one could open a company called McDonald's in that country selling burgers and there is FA legally McDonald's corp could do about it except try and buy the brand name from that company

Don't mix the registration of a company name up with copyright , not the same animal

Edited March 2, 2014 by Soutpeel

[JLCrab]

Even when granted a trademark for a well-recognized, active-in-commerce business, defending such against infringement is not always easy nor inexpensive.

http://mag.newsweek.com/2013/11/08/starbucks-thailand-copyright.html

Edited March 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[manarak]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

No it wouldn't be a copyright violation unless you had registered the company under international copyright laws ie multiple filings in multiple countries, this is what the big MNC do

Therefore if the brand name "McDonald's" wasn't registered by McDonald corp in a specific country, some one could open a company called McDonald's in that country selling burgers and there is FA legally McDonald's corp could do about it except try and buy the brand name from that company

Don't mix the registration of a company name up with copyright , not the same animal

Actually, that isn't completely true, there are several things to consider, such as consumer protection and fair competition rules.

These kick in when McDonald's proper and McDonald's copy do business in the same area.

Even if McDonald's proper registered for business after the local copy, it could (under most circumstances) successfully claim that the competing brand confuses consumers and is a parasitic business practice and get the local brand nullified or transferred to them, regardless of registration dates.

These provisions only apply to widely recognized brands.

Then it is necessary to note that company names are not the same as brands, although they are handled under similar trademark rules.

A company name does not necessarily qualify as a trademark, because trademarks must be unique and original, i.e. purely descriptive names such as "Thai Toothpicks" will not be protected as a word-only brand, at least not until it has built up considerable brand recognition within a market.

It could be protected in conjunction with a drawing/graphic/logo though, but then infringement would need to include unlawful use of the logo, not just the name.

Also, the same trademark may be used by different owners for different product categories, i.e.

http://merriamassociates.com/2011/12/brand-twins-same-brand-names-for-different-products/

But in the case of different product/service categories, protection of a very well known trademark can also kick in if the offender is deemed to use the trademark in a parasitic way to benefit from its notoriety, and sometimes there is a danger to dilute the value of the trademark, such as in the case of the Harley Davidson pub in Pattaya cited earlier.

In other cases, such as the Starbungs case, the application of the law is not that straightforward, because there is no possible confusion between Starbungs and Starbucks in the eyes of a consumer, and no one would even think it possible that a product similar to Starbucks' can be had at Starbungs - so the blatant copy of Starbucks' trademark falls rather into the realm of parody than into unfaithful competition. Nevertheless, Starbungs still sells coffee for money, so he didn't stand a chance to keep the name and eventually had to change it.

In OP's case: I guess your company will have zero starting notoriety in Canada, so if you want to do business there under the same name as the Thai company or Brand, you will have to register a trademark in Canada or a company with a name that is acceptable as a trademark.

Internet domains follow the same rules, so get the corresponding domains registered as well.

Trademark Law is a complex matter, of which much is subject to local national laws but at the same time many of these laws follow international standards - still, some court rulings read like knee-jerk reactions, sometimes the rulings are uncertain until the very end, especially in the grey-areas, where neither of both sides have clear-cut exclusive rights to the name.

If you have more questions, just ask here, trademark law happens to be of interest to me.

[JLCrab]

The following is from the US Patent & Trademark Office page http://www.uspto.gov/main/glossary/#useincommerce

"Use in commerce" must be a bona fide use of the mark in the ordinary course of trade, and not use simply made to reserve rights in the mark. Generally, acceptable use is as follows:

For goods: the mark must appear on the goods, the container for the goods, or displays associated with the goods, and the goods must be sold or transported in commerce.

For services: the mark must be used or displayed in the sale or advertising of the services, and the services must be rendered in commerce. If you have already started using the mark in commerce, you may file based on that use.

A "use" based application must include a sworn statement(usually in the form of a declaration) that the mark is in use in commerce, listing the date of first use of the mark anywhere and the date of first use of the mark in commerce.

-- in other words at least in the USA, although maybe not Thailand, it is not possible to get a trademark issued for a prospective product.

[manarak]

The following is from the US Patent & Trademark Office page http://www.uspto.gov/main/glossary/#useincommerce

"Use in commerce" must be a bona fide use of the mark in the ordinary course of trade, and not use simply made to reserve rights in the mark. Generally, acceptable use is as follows:

For goods: the mark must appear on the goods, the container for the goods, or displays associated with the goods, and the goods must be sold or transported in commerce.

For services: the mark must be used or displayed in the sale or advertising of the services, and the services must be rendered in commerce. If you have already started using the mark in commerce, you may file based on that use.

A "use" based application must include a sworn statement(usually in the form of a declaration) that the mark is in use in commerce, listing the date of first use of the mark anywhere and the date of first use of the mark in commerce.

-- in other words at least in the USA, although maybe not Thailand, it is not possible to get a trademark issued for a prospective product.

It is possible in most countries to register for prospective use, but the validity of the mark is limited in time, in most countries that time is 5 years.

These 5 years apply to existing products/services as well as prospective ones.

While in many countries the mark is theoretically registered for a longer time, for example 10 years (extendable), if the mark doesn't get used commercially within 5 years of registration or since the last proven use, third parties can request the trademark register to void the mark or to have it transferred to them for use.

Last but not least, let's remember US laws are only valid in the USA, and although many other countries apply trademark law that is very similar to the US regulations, the latter and especially their jurisprudence focus on protecting US interests, as far as international cases are concerned.

Edited March 2, 2014 by manarak

[JLCrab]

In Thailand I have read it is invalid after 3 years of inactivity following the registration. However, I mention the USA because the OP is already considering selling his product in Canada which likely follows the US procedure.

[manarak]

In Thailand I have read it is invalid after 3 years of inactivity following the registration. However, I mention the USA because the OP is already considering selling his product in Canada which likely follows the US procedure.

They are indeed very similar:

http://www.patentable.com/protecting-your-trademarks-south-of-the-border-differences-between-canadian-and-american-trademark-law/

[speedtripler]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

They probably could, the issue is when they start selling toothpicks in Thailand under the same name and you start selling toothpicks in Canada using the same name, it will end up in court and the issues will be taken into consideration, but regardless of size it is usually the one that was registered first that wins.

I say usually because many times might overpowers longevity, lets say you have 20 employees with a 500,000 dollar a year turnover, and the Canadian company has 4000 employees with a 50 million dollar a year turnover - who has the might and the means to fight a court case or walk away?

One local example in Pattaya was a famous pub, the pub is still operational with a different name as Harley Davidson did not approve of their original name!!

If a conflict arises it is very easy to change your company name, unless your company name has a direct reference to your actual product then this is usually not a big issue.

i think i read there was another case of a burger and chip van owner with the surname of McDonald

and i think he wasnt allowed to call it McDonald's because the real mcd's objected and WON

[ikebukuro5]

Wow! Thanks guys for all the information

The company in question is: (site under construction)

http://www.satearn.com

Still small company, but plan to grow it to the point of exporting products, so just trying to play it safe from the start as I will be building up the brand online and offline and would hate to have someone just snatch it away...

I own the domain and the incorporated Thai company, can I buy trademark from Thailand?

Edited March 2, 2014 by ikebukuro5

[manarak]

Wow! Thanks guys for all the information

The company in question is: (site under construction)

http://www.satearn.com

Still small company, but plan to grow it to the point of exporting products, so just trying to play it safe from the start as I will be building up the brand online and offline and would hate to have someone just snatch it away...

I own the domain and the incorporated Thai company, can I buy trademark from Thailand?

A Thai trademark will be valid in Thailand only.

If your company has the same name, you don't really need a Thai trademark, just print the name of the company on your products and the name is protected in a way similar to a registered trademark.

If you want to export your products, the safest is to register a trademark in each of the countries you are exporting to.

although - I really wonder if someone would likely register "satearn" as a trademark in Canada

Edited March 2, 2014 by manarak

[bendejo]

Register a trademark for your company name.

In each country.

[NeverSure]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

No it wouldn't be a copyright violation unless you had registered the company under international copyright laws ie multiple filings in multiple countries, this is what the big MNC do

Therefore if the brand name "McDonald's" wasn't registered by McDonald corp in a specific country, some one could open a company called McDonald's in that country selling burgers and there is FA legally McDonald's corp could do about it except try and buy the brand name from that company

Don't mix the registration of a company name up with copyright , not the same animal

Actually, there is something about your right to use your own real name that gets confusing. I'm no lawyer.

There was a case where a man had been operating a business under his real name - McDonald's Hamburgers - for a couple of decades. He probably made a huge mistake by erecting a couple of golden arches.

McDonald's sued him and the outcome was that he had to change the name of his restaurant to Norman McDonald's and take down the arches.

Link

[draftvader]

Wow! Thanks guys for all the information

The company in question is: (site under construction)

http://www.satearn.com

Still small company, but plan to grow it to the point of exporting products, so just trying to play it safe from the start as I will be building up the brand online and offline and would hate to have someone just snatch it away...

I own the domain and the incorporated Thai company, can I buy trademark from Thailand?

A Thai trademark will be valid in Thailand only.

If your company has the same name, you don't really need a Thai trademark, just print the name of the company on your products and the name is protected in a way similar to a registered trademark.

If you want to export your products, the safest is to register a trademark in each of the countries you are exporting to.

although - I really wonder if someone would likely register "satearn" as a trademark in Canada

Or whether you would be able to push that name in Canada. You might well want to think about a name that would convey meaning in your target country. You don't have to change everything here just think that you might have to print separate labels for sale in the 3rd country. This isn't too much of a problem as you will want to have localised language labeling on food products in the West anyway so you will be printing new labels for that reason.

[JLCrab]

From the website link it would appear the company is in full production and has local distribution. On another forum the OP says:

13 FEB 2014: My idea is to offer frozen western dinners to Thai restaurants to cater to tourists. These are restaurants in Thailand,selling Thai food but offering western dishes to tourists.

For trademark purposes, it makes a big difference whether the product/s are currently in-commerce or still at the idea stage.

[wprime]

No country's company's are inherently respected in the manner you speak.

If you disagree with someone registering the same name in another country, the method of dealing with it would depend on the laws of that country. In Australia for instance, you would need to prove that you already had a strong presence in Australia under that name.

[manarak]

Thanks Lenny,

So let's say that my registered corporation in Thailand is called ABC Widgets that sells tooth picks in Thailand.

A company in Canada could NOT simply start a corporation called ABC Widgets and sell toothpicks in Canada? That would be a copyright name violation?

No it wouldn't be a copyright violation unless you had registered the company under international copyright laws ie multiple filings in multiple countries, this is what the big MNC do

Therefore if the brand name "McDonald's" wasn't registered by McDonald corp in a specific country, some one could open a company called McDonald's in that country selling burgers and there is FA legally McDonald's corp could do about it except try and buy the brand name from that company

Don't mix the registration of a company name up with copyright , not the same animal

Actually, there is something about your right to use your own real name that gets confusing. I'm no lawyer.

There was a case where a man had been operating a business under his real name - McDonald's Hamburgers - for a couple of decades. He probably made a huge mistake by erecting a couple of golden arches.

McDonald's sued him and the outcome was that he had to change the name of his restaurant to Norman McDonald's and take down the arches.

Link

There is no absolute right to a name in trademark law, any usage right is always considered in relation to the claims others have on the name.

McDonald's Drive-in could probably have carried on if he hadn't opted for usurping MDC's corporate identity in order to make more profit.

[GrantSmith]

No country's company's are inherently respected in the manner you speak.

If you disagree with someone registering the same name in another country, the method of dealing with it would depend on the laws of that country. In Australia for instance, you would need to prove that you already had a strong presence in Australia under that name.

Indeed and lest we not forget the way China works: First in best dressed.