Changing from Non-B to Non-O (Marriage)

[SlyAnimal]

Hi All,
I'm hoping to get legally married this month, and to then change my extension from Non-B to Non-O.

My current visa expires on the 30th of April, so I need to get my new extension before then. However, I'll be showing my family around Thailand from around the 7th of April until the 24th of April (Ideally until the 28th if I can sort out my visa beforehand).

I am planning on going to Bangkok in the next couple of weeks to get my affirmation to marry etc sorted.

I have a sheet which I've printed out from the NZ Embassy (https://admin.nzembassy.com/webfm_send/1202) regarding the documents etc required for NZ Citizens to marry Thai Citizens in Thailand. This seems relatively straight forward, although no doubt the protesters will make things more difficult.

After I get the affirmation, marriage itself seems relatively easy.

I've also checked out the Thaivisa information page on marriage extensions (http://www.thaivisa.com/non-imm-o-marriage.html), and have a few questions regarding these documents:

1/ Are there any documents not listed on the NZ Embassy page, or TV information page which I'll likely require? (There always seems to be extra stuff lol)

2/ My job pays me 36,000 per month over 11 months, I've got a work permit etc so can legally declare that without any problems. It's below the 40k I'd need though. Does money transferred from abroad also count towards the 40k?

Also my bank account has been relatively healthy for the past 3-6 months, but has been under the required 400k, can I also use a combination of Income & Bank Account?

3/ The other documents listed on the TV information page are photos of the family, a map to the house and a recorded interview. I assume that these are to prove the relationship is genuine, and I've heard that you need to provide significantly more information than what is stated above, so I was thinking about providing immigration with the following:

An invitation to our various wedding ceremonies

Letters from 2x Pra Ajarns of local temples we've been involved in confirming our relationship

A letter signed by my school director or my head of department from the govt school I work at (Director is away in Singapore this month). confirming our relationship

A letter signed by the local Phu Yai Baan, confirming our relationship

A letter from the owner of the apartment we've been living in while our house is being built confirming our relationship

Photos of us travelling overseas

Photos of us together with my family in NZ

Photos of us together with my fiance's family in Thailand

Screenshots of our facebook engagement status 2 years ago

Photos of our engagement ceremony 2 years ago

Photocopy of our joint bank account's bank book

Pictures of us outside our new house + pictures of it under construction

Pictures of us with our new car last year

Pictures of our pre-wedding photoshoot

Pictures of our wedding rings + receipt

Pictures of our wedding ceremony (If it happens before we apply for the visa)

I know that most of these are probably unnecessary, but I'd rather have a little bit too much, as opposed to not enough (Particularly as it's a 2h drive to immigration). Although hopefully immigration will simply recognise us, as we've been going there together for my visa extensions/90 day reporting for the past 2 years.

Are there any other documents etc which you would reccommend we bring with us?

4/ A guy I know went to immigration on Friday for his 90 day report, and he asked about what was required for his marriage visa (He's on a retirement, but will change to marriage when his one next needs to be renewed), and they advised him that he'd need to bring the PhuYai Baan with him to the immigration office. This sounds a bit crazy/unreasonable, particularly as it's a 2h drive to the immigration office. Has anyone encountered this previously? Or do you think that they might have just had a translation error, and perhaps it's just a suggestion, rather than a requirement (His wife doesn't even know who the PhuYai Baan for his suburb is, as he lives in the city, so it'd be a bit silly to use him as confirmation of their relationship lol).

And that concludes my mammoth wall of text lol. As you can perhaps see, I'm concerned about my visa, probably because I always have such an uphill battle with extending my Non B lol

So any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[thepool]

I believe the financial hurdle will have to be cleared.

400,000Bht in the bank or an income of 40,000 Bht/month.

No "combinations" are permitted and there is no point in applying for an extension based on marriage (not a visa) until you are actually married!

("Pictures of our wedding ceremony (If it happens before we apply for the visa") sic

I hope someone will tell me I have got this wrong as that would be good news for you

Edited March 3, 2014 by thepool

[digitalchromakey]

First things first, you are probably currently on a National Police Order 777/2551 Extension of Permission to Stay based on Teaching in Thailand.

There are three ways forward:

1) To get a Category 2.18 National Police Order 777/2551 Extension of Permission to Stay based on Thai Family (Spouse) you need to prove either a 40,000 THB pcm income (maintainable over a one year period proved by PND91, PND1 tax records) or >= 400,000 THB continuously in your Thai bank a/c for two months preceeding the application. There is no income/savings combination method allowed for 2.18 extensions, also your wife's income cannot count towards the total figure.

2) You can get another Category 2.6, 2.7 National Police Order 777/2551 Extension of Permission to Stay based on Teaching in Thailand with the support of your school - this category does not have an income threshold, but your marriage woud be irrelevent for this class of application.

3) You can go to Savannakhet, Laos and get a one year Multiple Entry Non Immigranrt 'B' giving you potentially 15 months worth of 90 day entries - no financial proof is being asked for this class of visa there at the moment; but you would have the cost and inconvenience of 90 day border runs..

Your list of marriage proofs would be way, way over the top, you will be asked for signed copies of your KR2 and KR3 Marriage Certiificates plus a photo in front of your house, maybe inside as well, along with a hand drawn map as to how to get there.

Immigration might want to visit you at home with the wife the first time and posssibly talk to neighbours (try not to pay any 'expenses' for this visit if it is requested).

With the exception of the Phu Yai Barn and Monk's attestations, which might be useful, as for the rest of your marriage proofs much as they are important to you, they will not be asked for, or looked at.

Good Luck.

Edited March 3, 2014 by digitalchromakey

[SlyAnimal]

I believe the financial hurdle will have to be cleared.

400,000Bht in the bank or an income of 40,000 Bht/month.

No "combinations" are permitted and there is no point in applying for an extension based on marriage (not a visa) until you are actually married!

("Pictures of our wedding ceremony (If it happens before we apply for the visa") sic

I hope someone will tell me I have got this wrong as that would be good news for you

I probably should have made one of the questions I was asking a little clearer (Sorry I was trying to skirt around giving too much info on my financials). As I was asking if money transferred from abroad counted towards the income (Or does it have to be from a Thai salary).

As in addition to my 36k salary per month, I've also probably transferred around 1.5M from NZ to Thailand in the past 12 months, and will probably transfer another 1M before the wedding (Building a house + overseas holidays + paying for wedding + sin sod + honeymoon etc). Although that's as lump sums, not regular transactions. So I've transferred around 600k, 800k and a few 100k/200k transactions.

I wasn't sure if simple transfers of money count, or if it's only taxable "income", and if they do, whether they need to be regular income (every month), or if they look at the total income from the entire year. Alternatively I think I can get a statement from my embassy declaring my NZ income right? although I figured it'd simply be easier to use what I have in Thailand as proof, as it's a 6h drive to BKK to visit the embassy, and doing anything on a week day is difficult because I'm working.

Also when I mentioned pictures of the wedding ceremony, that's because we're going to get legally married before the actual wedding ceremony itself, since I won't have time to sort out my visa if I wait until the real wedding, as it's 10 days before my visa expires (Although we are also having a traditional ceremony in 3 weeks for the locals, which isn't the main ceremony, it's mainly to appease the older generation, as they didn't like the April lunar cycle and were nagging at my fiance's mother about how it goes against Buddha or something lol).

[jimmiejackson]

It doesn't matter where the money came from or why. As your Salary within Thailand is not sufficient you will need to either show a salary outside of Thailand (by getting a certified letter from your Embassy stating this fact) of 40k a month or put 400k in the bank (in your name only) for two months before applying for the extension.

Assuming you have the capacity to get the 400k, you could get married, get a 60 day extension of stay based on visiting Thai wife (no proof of money needed) to give the 400k time to mature in the bank, then go back and get the extension once it has been in the bank for 2 months.

Using the logic of transfers, other income etc won't work. The rules are clear and they will not listen to reasons as to why they shouldn't be enforced exactly as they understand them.

[ubonjoe]

I believe the financial hurdle will have to be cleared.

400,000Bht in the bank or an income of 40,000 Bht/month.

No "combinations" are permitted and there is no point in applying for an extension based on marriage (not a visa) until you are actually married!

("Pictures of our wedding ceremony (If it happens before we apply for the visa") sic

I hope someone will tell me I have got this wrong as that would be good news for you

I probably should have made one of the questions I was asking a little clearer (Sorry I was trying to skirt around giving too much info on my financials). As I was asking if money transferred from abroad counted towards the income (Or does it have to be from a Thai salary).

As in addition to my 36k salary per month, I've also probably transferred around 1.5M from NZ to Thailand in the past 12 months, and will probably transfer another 1M before the wedding (Building a house + overseas holidays + paying for wedding + sin sod + honeymoon etc). Although that's as lump sums, not regular transactions. So I've transferred around 600k, 800k and a few 100k/200k transactions.

I wasn't sure if simple transfers of money count, or if it's only taxable "income", and if they do, whether they need to be regular income (every month), or if they look at the total income from the entire year. Alternatively I think I can get a statement from my embassy declaring my NZ income right? although I figured it'd simply be easier to use what I have in Thailand as proof, as it's a 6h drive to BKK to visit the embassy, and doing anything on a week day is difficult because I'm working.

Also when I mentioned pictures of the wedding ceremony, that's because we're going to get legally married before the actual wedding ceremony itself, since I won't have time to sort out my visa if I wait until the real wedding, as it's 10 days before my visa expires (Although we are also having a traditional ceremony in 3 weeks for the locals, which isn't the main ceremony, it's mainly to appease the older generation, as they didn't like the April lunar cycle and were nagging at my fiance's mother about how it goes against Buddha or something lol).

You might be able to show 2 sources of income if you could a letter to prove it from the embassy. But you would need to check with your local immigration to see if they would accept it. The rules say an average of 40K a month which means that if you could prove a higher for few months of the year it should be allowed as long as total come out to 480K baht for the year.

But it might be best to go with the 400K baht in the bank option for the first extension. As said you can get a 60 day extension to visit your bride as soon as the marriage is registered and then do the one year when the money has been in the bank for 60 days. The extension would be for your current non-b entry/extension so their would not be a problem getting your work permit with it. But I suggest that when it is applied for you insure a copy of your marriage certificate is included.

[SlyAnimal]

Wicked cheers, if I do that, I'll have heaps of extra time then to sort out my visa. So I might keep that as a backup option if I can't get it all sorted in time.

[digitalchromakey]

I believe the financial hurdle will have to be cleared.

400,000Bht in the bank or an income of 40,000 Bht/month.

No "combinations" are permitted and there is no point in applying for an extension based on marriage (not a visa) until you are actually married!

("Pictures of our wedding ceremony (If it happens before we apply for the visa") sic

I hope someone will tell me I have got this wrong as that would be good news for you

I probably should have made one of the questions I was asking a little clearer (Sorry I was trying to skirt around giving too much info on my financials). As I was asking if money transferred from abroad counted towards the income (Or does it have to be from a Thai salary).

As in addition to my 36k salary per month, I've also probably transferred around 1.5M from NZ to Thailand in the past 12 months, and will probably transfer another 1M before the wedding (Building a house + overseas holidays + paying for wedding + sin sod + honeymoon etc). Although that's as lump sums, not regular transactions. So I've transferred around 600k, 800k and a few 100k/200k transactions.

I wasn't sure if simple transfers of money count, or if it's only taxable "income", and if they do, whether they need to be regular income (every month), or if they look at the total income from the entire year. Alternatively I think I can get a statement from my embassy declaring my NZ income right? although I figured it'd simply be easier to use what I have in Thailand as proof, as it's a 6h drive to BKK to visit the embassy, and doing anything on a week day is difficult because I'm working.

Also when I mentioned pictures of the wedding ceremony, that's because we're going to get legally married before the actual wedding ceremony itself, since I won't have time to sort out my visa if I wait until the real wedding, as it's 10 days before my visa expires (Although we are also having a traditional ceremony in 3 weeks for the locals, which isn't the main ceremony, it's mainly to appease the older generation, as they didn't like the April lunar cycle and were nagging at my fiance's mother about how it goes against Buddha or something lol).

You might be able to show 2 sources of income if you could a letter to prove it from the embassy. But you would need to check with your local immigration to see if they would accept it. The rules say an average of 40K a month which means that if you could prove a higher for few months of the year it should be allowed as long as total come out to 480K baht for the year.

But it might be best to go with the 400K baht in the bank option for the first extension. As said you can get a 60 day extension to visit your bride as soon as the marriage is registered and then do the one year when the money has been in the bank for 60 days. The extension would be for your current non-b entry/extension so their would not be a problem getting your work permit with it. But I suggest that when it is applied for you insure a copy of your marriage certificate is included.

One potential problem comes if you have to renew your Work Permit whilst on a 60 day 'Visiting Spouse' (Extension - Category 2.24 National Police Order 777/2551 Extension of Permission to Stay): In some areas Labour will not accept the 2.24 extension as valid for the purposes of a Work Permit Extension.

[SlyAnimal]

That's ok, I'm not renewing my contract after the end of this academic year, as I'm going to study Thai instead

[digitalchromakey]

That's ok, I'm not renewing my contract after the end of this academic year, as I'm going to study Thai instead

Ok, so regarding my advice earlier in this post - option 2) will not be possible if you are stopping work.

As regards option 1) you will not be able to extend on the basis of 40,000 pcm Thai income if you have stopped working and no longer have a WP, so 400,000 THB in the bank for 2 months is your only realistic option for extension unless you can get a embassy statement confirming overseas income > 40,000 THB pcm that Thai Immgration will accept.

Once you are married, get the 400k in the bank a.s.a.p. (nb Thai a/c in your name) and leave it there. Get the 60 day 2.24 extension, then after this you should be good for a one year 2.18 extension based on 400k in your Thai bank for > 2months.

[Canada]

Non O visa itself is easy. Nevermind the extension. Do border run every 90 days. No proof required of anything aside from proof of marriage. Copy of Marriage cert. and wife's ID is all you'll need. But you'll need a multi entry non o....or re-entry permit (multi).