Chiang Mai red leader denies supporting a Lanna state: Sedition charge

[webfact]

SEDITION CHARGE
Chiang Mai red leader denies supporting a Lanna state
THE NATION

Sedition charge is mistake, he tell police

BANGKOK: -- HAVING SEEN fellow pro-government red-shirts face sedition charges after allegedly calling for the country to be partitioned, the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) and ruling Pheu Thai Party MPs denied yesterday there was any serious talk about secession.

They said the issue had been exploited unfairly by the anti-government movement.

Pro-government Rak Chiang Mai 51 leader, Phetchawat Watthana-phongsirikul, who faces a sedition charge after army prosecutors lodged a complaint yesterday with police, denied that he supported forming a breakaway state called the People's Democratic Republic of Lanna.

Phetchawat said he had no ties to any political group believed to have promoted a Lanna republic.

He said the term merely referred to the Assembly for the Defence of Democracy Lanna, which had similar abbreviations to PDR Lanna in Thai language.

In Phayao, military prosecutors also filed a complaint with police accusing members of the Phayao Red Shirt Group of sedition, one of three crimes under Article 113 of the Criminal Code that it can result in the death penalty or life in prison.

The province's military chief Maj-General Chaiwat Thanarun called on the public to notify military officers of any banner carrying messages promoting secession.

On social media and red-shirt satellite-TV channels, images can be seen of cloth and vinyl banners with the message "This country has no justice for me, I want to partition and set up a Lanna state", which were hung up at several sites in the north recently.

A parade of pro-red auxiliary policemen held recently in Phayao was conducted with red-white flags symbolising the "PDR Lanna nation" flag.

Pheu Thai party-list candidate Phichit Chuenban said the flag was a symbolical gesture that showed the current political conflict, but people weren't really calling for partition.

He said red-shirt groups had never tried to set up a separate state.

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she did not believe secession was being planned and asked the Army to treat all political groups fairly.

She was referring to Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha's order for legal action to be launched against red groups who call for partition.

Asked about those groups being allied with the ruling Pheu Thai Party, she said her caretaker government did not support secession.

She said a thorough investigation needed to be conducted into whether secession was really being planned.

Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul agreed with Phetchawat that what was thought to be the PDR Lanna abbreviation was instead a reference to the Assembly for Defence of Democracy Lanna - a political movement comprising pro-government supporters.

He said anti-government People's Democratic Reform Committee had manipulated the issue for their gain.

"Human emotion needs to be taken into account," he said.

"When one group can cause disruption in Bangkok and further divide society, which would prompt the other group to run out of patience. This is a human nature." He did not elaborate.

In Phitsanulok last week, pro-sedition banners were erected but removed by residents who are against secession.

Police said they were tracking the people who erected the banners.

The Democrat Party said a complaint would be lodged with the Constitution Court seeking dissolution of Pheu Thai over its leader Charupong Ruangsuwan's alleged violation of Article 113 - over his alleged remark in support of partitioning the country.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said a lawsuit would be lodged against the Democrat to protect Charupong.


-- The Nation 2014-03-04

[JRSoul]

There's an old American expression that comes to mind, something about being careless while wearing golf shoes.

[Mosha]

Sorry teacher, we were just pretending.

[Dr Bruce]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

[kikoman]

How quickly the military react to "sedition" finger pointed at the Red Shirts, but sit quietly by when the fascist break every sedition laws possible and claim it is a peaceful protest!

This in spite of the great miss understanding that has been associated by the initials the Army states, stands for a separate Lanna state is actually those used by a pro government group of academic supporters (Assembly for the Defense of Democratic Lanna) initialed as PDR Lanna in Thai!

The Army conveniently disregarded the Red Shirt leaders in Chaing Mai public announcement that they favored decentralization of power in Thailand not secession, much like the federation of states in the US, the states have there own local government with in the country of Thailand!

Cheers

Edited March 3, 2014 by kikoman

[pmugghc]

I think the headline is wrong. Isn't it secession instead of sedition?

Edited March 4, 2014 by pmugghc

[SoilSpoil]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Democratic governments are not trying to amend the constitution for their own benefit and clear criminals of their cases. Democratic governments don't try to steal 400 billion baht in rice scheme money and arrogantly ignore courts when caught. Democratic governments respect check and balances and opposing opinions.

So let the 'rest of the country' (??) keep your version of democracy. I think you are confused with kleptocracy!

[Yunla]

Its sort of funny as soon as "life in prison" gets mentioned, they all suddenly start acting more responsibly. Maybe the threat of serious legal consequences would deter brigandry from all sides would lead to real reconciliation and progress. Its worth a try!

[focus27]

Slapstick politics in a playground democracy.

At some point, someone with a functioning nervous system, might think that a semi-autonomous region would sound good and not contravene any secession laws.

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

The only person who is to blame for splitting the country Dr is Thaskin Shinawatra, if this silly clown and he's advises only took time to examine the risks with absconding from Bail, this would not be happening and the dear leader would be doing jail time.

[smovi57]

Back peddleing.

[JRSoul]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Suthep went to the red heartland and put up posters saying "There is no justice in this country. We want to separate to form Lanna country." ?

I suppose he launched the grenades at the court as well?

[JRSoul]

Slapstick politics in a playground democracy.

At some point, someone with a functioning nervous system, might think that a semi-autonomous region would sound good and not contravene any secession laws.

Autonomy to do what? Ignore the laws of Thailand perhaps, because that seems to be their biggest bitch.

[Ricardo]

Back-pedalling faster than an Olympic-Gold cyclist, but in the reverse direction, after a few days ?

Or were the banners(on the main road) & headbands & new-flags all just an unrelated-coincidence, and '51 Rak Chiang Mai' haven't been discussing the idea for the past six months, as Khun Petchawat Wattanapongsirikul claimed ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707965-we-favour-a-democratic-lanna-republic-chiang-mai-group-says/

Maybe he's a 'fake Red leader', or maybe one can have a "a separate political system for the North" called "the Republic of Lanna", without it actually being a political system which is separate or different from the rest of the country ?

[LomSak27]

Its one thing to try and overthrow and elected goverment

quite another to say you want out of the goverment altogether!

[kutjebu]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

The only person who is to blame for splitting the country Dr is Thaskin Shinawatra, if this silly clown and he's advises only took time to examine the risks with absconding from Bail, this would not be happening and the dear leader would be doing jail time.

You must be brainwashed by criminal suthep.

[Dr Bruce]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Democratic governments are not trying to amend the constitution for their own benefit and clear criminals of their cases. Democratic governments don't try to steal 400 billion baht in rice scheme money and arrogantly ignore courts when caught. Democratic governments respect check and balances and opposing opinions.

So let the 'rest of the country' (??) keep your version of democracy. I think you are confused with kleptocracy!

Democratic Governments all over the world would try to amend a constitution that was imposed by a junta after a coup.

I agree that the rice scheme was a momumental cockup.

Name me a democratic government who repects opposing opinion if they do not need the votes of others.

Checks and balances have to be fair. In the UK we had the house of Lords which could slow legislation but not stop it.

[djjamie]

"This country has no justice for me, I want to partition and set up a Lanna state". Yet when the army wants to hold them accountable, wants to ensure justice is forthright the red shirts say it was a misunderstanding and not to dish out justice. Just shows they want a form of justice for everyone else, but themselves. This is further highlighted by point #5 in the beat the war drum meeting (not restore peace to Thailand meeting). Point #5 stated "If there is other unfair charge in the future the PM should show sign of civil disobedience by not acknowledging it". In other words, if the UDD don't agree with the justice being dished out we will ignore it or make up excuses as is shown here.

Reminds me of the banner in front of the hospital stating they do not "want cheaters of the people, violence" then the red shirts swimming in intellect and wisdom decide to threaten the director with violence if he doesn't take it down.

​Violence truly is the language of the inarticulate.

[BigMountain]

Its sort of funny as soon as "life in prison" gets mentioned, they all suddenly start acting more responsibly. Maybe the threat of serious legal consequences would deter brigandry from all sides would lead to real reconciliation and progress. Its worth a try!

Unfortunately, everyone in a position of power to do any real legal threatening is firmly encamped on one side of the political divide. The leadership of the military and police are on opposite political sides, and any statement given by either of them is automatically seen through that filter. The UDD leadership did seem to back down a bit after the military swiftly acted. However, I'm completely unconvinced by the UDD's statements about never considering secession. Seems more like stalling to me....

[ramrod711]

"When one group can cause disruption in Bangkok and further divide society, which would prompt the other group to run out of patience. This is a human nature." He did not elaborate.

Right from Surapongs lips, all the legal defence that Suthep and Abhisit would ever need for the "murder" charges from 2010. There really should be a minimal intelligence test for PTP cabinet ministers. Perhaps i'm being to harsh, possible that it may not be stupidity, maybe just a bad memory. When one is making up excuses every day it's hard to remember them all.

[StealthEnergiser]

Now trying to make excuses won't help him the army want these thugs stopped from damaging the country .

It seem Thaksins lawyer Amstredam is having a lot to say about this and most likely instructing and advising.

from his blog March 03 2014

"On the one hand the Thai Army are filing criminal chargesagainst those they suspect of allegedly daringly to voice any kind of regional aspirations"

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/2014/03/03/the-thai-army-and-electoral-commissions-political-repression/

[Bocking]

".. Yes, in a certain kind of light it possibly looked like a duck, and sometimes it quacked like a duck, but honestly, it wasn't a duck"

".. No, they were not UDD supporters, they were PDRC members from the South who'd sneaked across Thailand's land border

with Singapore. Indeed, they were fake UDD supporters, with fake banners"

".. No, the signs didn't say that at all. In fact, an eminent professor has proven in a speech that dyslexia is very common amongst those who favour yellow".

Now, let's hear about what's really happening in Iraq from Baghdad Bob

Edited March 4, 2014 by Bocking

[djjamie]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Democratic governments are not trying to amend the constitution for their own benefit and clear criminals of their cases. Democratic governments don't try to steal 400 billion baht in rice scheme money and arrogantly ignore courts when caught. Democratic governments respect check and balances and opposing opinions.

So let the 'rest of the country' (??) keep your version of democracy. I think you are confused with kleptocracy!

Democratic Governments all over the world would try to amend a constitution that was imposed by a junta after a coup.

The 2007 constitution was voted on and 58% of the population, through a referendum, voted for it. It was not imposed, or forced. It was up to the population of Thailand.

All this rejection of the 2007 constitution highlights to me is that the majority is only respected when it suits the PTP or the UDD. In the northern provinces of Thailand up to 95% of the population voted against the constitutional amendments. In other words a lot of UDD supporters didn't like it. HOWEVER the majority did like it.

Now it is all well and good to say let the voters decide. Let democracy take it's course when the PTP have a fair chance of winning an election and thy know it. It is not democracy, they know they could win so they want to cement that to ensure they can abuse democracy again. The refusal to listen to the majority regarding the constitution referendum is a litmus test of what will come when they do eventually lose at the polls. There will be a rejection of the ballots, they will decry vote buying, they will come into the streets, and just like the courts decisions, will ignore the results and not abide by them.

Look at all the supporters of the UDD. They denounce anyone that goes against them. It absolutely beggars belief that they have spoken against and denounced the following, the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the Environmentalists, the corn farmer, rubber farmers, rice farmers, medical association, rural teachers, academics, Supa, global economists, IMF, private banks, GSB, the EC, AoT, the courts, military, bangkok middle class, business owner, state enterprise staff, Buddhist monks, civil servants, labor unions, Green Politics group, Thai Constitution Protection Association, The Thai press, NIDA poll and Bangkok Poll.

Conspiracy theories abound as the norm in the red shirt camps. Rest assured if they loose the majority at the ballot box they will ignore that majority and fight for power. They only respect the majority when it favors them.

​Anyway that is getting of the subject though the above shows their snide, slippery criminally active minds at work trying to back pedal their way out of a situation. They are a cancer that will not discriminate between the minority and the majority. Like the regimes before it, who too had their ardent supporters, those same supporters will wish they never supported them as they show their true colors further.

[mrtoad]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Suthep went to the red heartland and put up posters saying "There is no justice in this country. We want to separate to form Lanna country." ?

I suppose he launched the grenades at the court as well?

Didn't you know that?

He's also actually Kotee as well.

[dcutman]

The man seemed pretty clear and confident the other day when he was exercising his jaw.

We favour a democratic Lanna republic, Chiang Mai group says
The Sunday Nation

CHIANG MAI: -- The idea of setting up a People's Democratic Republic of Lanna (PDRL) has been under discussion for six months now, according to a leader of the Love Chiang Mai group. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707965-we-favour-a-democratic-lanna-republic-chiang-mai-group-says/

[Yunla]

Its sort of funny as soon as "life in prison" gets mentioned, they all suddenly start acting more responsibly. Maybe the threat of serious legal consequences would deter brigandry from all sides would lead to real reconciliation and progress. Its worth a try!

Unfortunately, everyone in a position of power to do any real legal threatening is firmly encamped on one side of the political divide. The leadership of the military and police are on opposite political sides, and any statement given by either of them is automatically seen through that filter. The UDD leadership did seem to back down a bit after the military swiftly acted. However, I'm completely unconvinced by the UDD's statements about never considering secession. Seems more like stalling to me....

Yes it takes generations to gradually instill the concept of serious legal retribution, you can't go from near-anarchy to serious policing overnight. This applies to everything from street-level crime to state-level brigandry and destabilisation.

When I was a kid we got "sound thrashings" with a big knobbly stick if we so much as whispered to our friends after lights-out. And during the thrashing we were yelled at about "if you break the law as an adult you will go to prison forever and you will wish you were back here getting this sound thrashing instead."

And lo-and-behold I grew up to live a law-abiding life, dotting every i and crossing every t.

[thesetat2013]

How quickly the military react to "sedition" finger pointed at the Red Shirts, but sit quietly by when the fascist break every sedition laws possible and claim it is a peaceful protest!

This in spite of the great miss understanding that has been associated by the initials the Army states, stands for a separate Lanna state is actually those used by a pro government group of academic supporters (Assembly for the Defense of Democratic Lanna) initialed as PDR Lanna in Thai!

The Army conveniently disregarded the Red Shirt leaders in Chaing Mai public announcement that they favored decentralization of power in Thailand not secession, much like the federation of states in the US, the states have there own local government with in the country of Thailand!

Cheers

You and Dr Bruce need to wake up and smell the coffee. Or at least see things as they are. Last week there was an article in the news that said the PTP was recruiting 600,000 young men to join their party. Not 600,000 people. To me this is a small army for Thailand. Next the PTP started recruiting stations also publicised in the news. Then a caretaker Minister was quoted talking to the reds about secession. Then came the banners and the abbr. PDRL. More talks of secession. It wasn't until the General spoke out about acts violating the constitution that the PTP and UDD (same group) changed their tune and started saying "ohh we did not mean it for real" it is just political talk"" we said wrong becuase we are emotional"

These are all excuses they are using to keep from a death penalty or life imprisonment. Anyone who is not completely stupid would deny these allegations rather than face the consequences of their actions.

The facts with which i am sure the army is safeguarding show clearly sedition and secession was promoted by these people.

Blame Suthep all you want but the PTP and UDD put their foot in their mouth by starting all of the above things i mentioned.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Morakot]

Section 113 Whoever, commits an act of violence or threatens to commit an act of violence in order to:

1. Overthrow or change the Constitution;
2. Overthrow the legislative power, the executive power or the judicial power of the Constitution, or nullify such power; or
3. Separate the Kingdom or seize the power of administration in any part of the Kingdom, is said to commit insurrection, and shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Morakot

[Dellboy218]

Suthep must have known the truth when he was spreading the lies about this.

If there is anybody trying to split the country it is Suthep. He wants his undemocrstic south and Bangkok to have his people's council, the rest of the country wants a democrstic government.

Wow, 2 pints of whatever you are drinking mate. You don't think there may be a little truth to it that perhaps the blame cannot be at least a little shared. I wonder who gave you that notion.

[binjalin]

How quickly the military react to "sedition" finger pointed at the Red Shirts, but sit quietly by when the fascist break every sedition laws possible and claim it is a peaceful protest!

This in spite of the great miss understanding that has been associated by the initials the Army states, stands for a separate Lanna state is actually those used by a pro government group of academic supporters (Assembly for the Defense of Democratic Lanna) initialed as PDR Lanna in Thai!

The Army conveniently disregarded the Red Shirt leaders in Chaing Mai public announcement that they favored decentralization of power in Thailand not secession, much like the federation of states in the US, the states have there own local government with in the country of Thailand!

Cheers

one should ask 'why' are the Army prosecuting? and if they see their role as 'keepers of the law' (which is weird) why not prosecute the yellow leaders for shouting from the roof tops that they wanted to take over the democratically elected government? and set up a fascist council of UN-ELECTED members?

I think we know the answer and THAT is sad for Thailand and the Thai people...

Edited March 4, 2014 by binjalin