thailand missing opportunities by No foreign ownership

[Beetlejuice]

If farangs were given more leeways to gain footholds here in Thailand, then right from the beginning the system would be open to abuse and corruption, it would be a land grab on a major scale.

In order to gain land and real estate, there would be marriages of convenience, land and property speculators and dealing with corrupt Thai officials to give farangs priority land purchasing options as they would have more money. Many middle class and poor Thais would not be able to compete, as land and property values would escalate, they would literally be out priced and pushed out of the land and housing markets.

It is happening now only on a smaller scale. Farangs owning land and real estate they are not legally entitled to own, property speculators using farang money and running businesses on agricultural land.

Letting farangs freely into the land and property markets would be a disaster for Thailand and these are the reasons it will never happen.

What about Farangs being allowed to own just 1 rai for their own use,, would that not be a good thing?.

• Become a Thai citizen
• Be the principal investor in a export orientated Board of Investment (BOI) approved company. The current maximum size limit of freehold ownership rights is one rai of land (1'600 sq m).
• Make an approved investment of over 40 million Baht left for a (to be fixed) minimum number of years. The current maximum size limit of freehold ownership rights is one RAI of land

Ah!, the same restrictions and rules that apply to foreigners owning land in the UK or USA.

Just joking of course. It seems to me that the rules here in Thailand are mainly for the benefit

Of rich Thais. Of course they do get around it, to help the rich Arabs to literally own vast areas of the north, while Farangs with Thai wives and children are exempt.

P.S do you qualify under one of the three examples you gave, and if so,which one.

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No I don`t nor would I be interested..

Quite happy and content to plod on under the rules laid down for foreigners here, but on the other hand, I am not a land or property speculator, not interested in owning a home as an investment or running an agricultural business on land used as a farm, also my Thai wife came from a middle class family and inherited what is now our home from her grandparents, so no problems.

For those who marry Thai wives that have little wealth, than the alternatives is to either rent a home or purchase a leasehold condo, or take the wife back to the home countries. That`s the way it is and hope it remains that way.

[mettech]

I do think that Thailand is doing the right thing by keeping the land only for their citizens. Foreigners have a tendency to bring inflation and poverty to locals that sell their land for a cheap price. And thai peoples would not be able to afford to live in their own country due to foreigners running the show.

[Carl64]

If it was up to me, the law in Australia would be similar.

I agree strongly with this. The Chinese are buying prime cattle property in the far North East of Queensland. This is food country! If we are not careful we wil have given away our prime source of food and have to buy it back from the Chinese. Not really very smart Australia. Without food security we will be held for ransom.

[speedtripler]

I do think that Thailand is doing the right thing by keeping the land only for their citizens. Foreigners have a tendency to bring inflation and poverty to locals that sell their land for a cheap price. And thai peoples would not be able to afford to live in their own country due to foreigners running the show.

have you been dug up from a grave to post this ?

[johnnyk]

Someone is comparing Denmark foreign ownership policy to Thailand . again I give up. Denmark along with UK dutch Spain etc were worlds apart from Thailand. Let's stick to point. Thailand needs change even at cost if expats living high on the hog.

Do you really think that the government in Thailand has any way to keep land prices under control? Do you see all of the new construction going on?

Good point. I am trying to work out what is driving all the condo developments???

I'm in kanchanaburi at present. Nice place but many joints empty. Why I see 3 five story developments. Correct me please but this must be from very rich Thai groups same as drives pattaya jomtien etc. Someone please tell me this is foreign driven.

Wash, rinse, spin. Repeat as needed to clean it all. Capisce?

[kannot]

There would be a terrible lad grab, and as suggested above, a hike in prices to exclude the majority of Thais. It would deepen resentment already there for the foreigners nudging their way into business. Foreigners would not respect the character of the Thai landscape. The ugliest parts of Thailand are where foreign developers have replicated Western suburbia. Ugly ugly ugly.

For there to be a land grab the "locals" would have to be selling, the locals are just as bad, many in Issan already sold out when prices went up there, no doubt now they are saying how expensive their land is and how they dont have land to grow food and the nice shiny new car is long gone.

[Langsuan Man]

The system is not set up to provide available land for the Thais. The system is set up to protect the rich Thais who have already gotten their piece of paradise

Not to mention the army of lawyers, accountants, brokers etc. that make a good living out restricting foreign ownership and then shilling ways around those restrictions

Despite many promises from many different administrations the one thing that has never happened in this country is land reform. Most of the farm land is owned by large land owners that either inherited the land or bought it a fire sale prices when the farmers got so deeply in debt that selling their land was the only option. These plots are now leased back to those same farmers and the cycle continues

[nontabury]

The system is not set up to provide available land for the Thais. The system is set up to protect the rich Thais who have already gotten their piece of paradise

Not to mention the army of lawyers, accountants, brokers etc. that make a good living out restricting foreign ownership and then shilling ways around those restrictions

Despite many promises from many different administrations the one thing that has never happened in this country is land reform. Most of the farm land is owned by large land owners that either inherited the land or bought it a fire sale prices when the farmers got so deeply in debt that selling their land was the only option. These plots are now leased back to those same farmers and the cycle continues

Agree with everything you have written, this is how it is.

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[bbbbooboo]

The system is not set up to provide available land for the Thais. The system is set up to protect the rich Thais who have already gotten their piece of paradise

Not to mention the army of lawyers, accountants, brokers etc. that make a good living out restricting foreign ownership and then shilling ways around those restrictions

Despite many promises from many different administrations the one thing that has never happened in this country is land reform. Most of the farm land is owned by large land owners that either inherited the land or bought it a fire sale prices when the farmers got so deeply in debt that selling their land was the only option. These plots are now leased back to those same farmers and the cycle continues

Agree with everything you have written, this is how it is.

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and I suggest the "rich thais" would be mainly chinese

[impulse]

Even if the current government were to throw open the doors to foreign ownership, I'd be reluctant.

Until there is a stable government with a few handovers of power to the next elected folk, I don't trust the next guys to keep the promises made by these guys. Foreigners are a tempting scapegoat and cash cow wherever elections can be won by promising something in return for votes. (Vote for me and you'll get a foreigners home free)

Think Zimbabwe and the ethnic cleansing that went on in the former Yugoslavia- then ponder the rice scheme and 500 baht votes.

One thing I do appreciate about Thailand- they'd rather stop us from owning land and business assets today, than to lure us in then steal it back tomorrow.

[thailiketoo]

I can buy an interest in all of the land that I want in Thailand. If you think land in Thailand is undervalued buy a Thai Real Estate Investment Trust. Someone can educate me otherwise but I think all Farang can buy a REIT on the SET.

http://www.set.or.th/en/products/listing/criteria_p7.html

[samran]

I do think that Thailand is doing the right thing by keeping the land only for their citizens. Foreigners have a tendency to bring inflation and poverty to locals that sell their land for a cheap price. And thai peoples would not be able to afford to live in their own country due to foreigners running the show.

have you been dug up from a grave to post this ?

Must have been, cause he never seemed to have a problem with Brits and yanks owning it, which has historically been very common.

[wym]

Too lazy to Google, but in other kingdoms, can foreigners own land in the kingdom? I thought the king "owns" all the land in a kingdom.

No westerners have thought like this for hundreds of years.

[nontabury]

I do think that Thailand is doing the right thing by keeping the land only for their citizens. Foreigners have a tendency to bring inflation and poverty to locals that sell their land for a cheap price. And thai peoples would not be able to afford to live in their own country due to foreigners running the show.

I don't know what part of Thailand you live in, if in deed you do actually reside here, but my observation regarding tourist areas, brings me to the opposite conclusion. The Thai's in these areas have benefited far past their expectations.

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[simple1]

If it was up to me, the law in Australia would be similar.

I agree strongly with this. The Chinese are buying prime cattle property in the far North East of Queensland. This is food country! If we are not careful we wil have given away our prime source of food and have to buy it back from the Chinese. Not really very smart Australia. Without food security we will be held for ransom.

Off topic, I assume you know that currently an estimated 60 percent of Australian agricultural output is exported so plenty of supply chain availablity for Australian domestic consumers. However, if Australian producers are unable to manage their debt ratios they are in effect 'forced' into selling their properties to cashed up offshore entities. Generally the core issue is non profitable management of land and assets. Its a complex issue and covered in more detail below.

http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=56312

I assume there would be some parrallels in Thailand for foreign entities / joint ventures acquistion of land

[eddie61]

I think you will have to wait a bit longer, until the country is really f****d, and the elite want out, and Singapore banks won't say no . That won't be long given recent progress in that direction

[TechnikaIII]

Your all missing the point.

Foreign ownership for INDIVIDUALS would not push up prices. I give up. . Clearly no one here understands wealth creation for Thai people, not farang. I never suggested company players or foreign condo development. This joint is stuffed for Thai people because there is very low tax on land and the rich sit on it. And the not rich cannot sell it or use it. The land is owned by Thai people, broaden the purchaser based market and they make money. Very subjective that a farang will make much. Would be better investing in AU. . They would do it as they want to live here.

We are all missing the point? Have you ever heard of Supply and Demand? Of course prices will go up!

Besides, why should you, or any other foreigner 'own' a single square inch of this country, for any reason.

[wym]

I do think that Thailand is doing the right thing by keeping the land only for their citizens. Foreigners have a tendency to bring inflation and poverty to locals that sell their land for a cheap price. And thai peoples would not be able to afford to live in their own country due to foreigners running the show.

I don't know what part of Thailand you live in, if in deed you do actually reside here, but my observation regarding tourist areas, brings me to the opposite conclusion. The Thai's in these areas have benefited far past their expectations.

The owners of capital certainly have. Those that didn't own property are no more able to purchase it now, no matter how their wages have "skyrocketed".

And note doing it the way they have Thailand as a nation still has enabled all that growth using foreign **consumption** funds while still exercising complete control over its land by forcing/encouraging most of the so-called "investment" funds to use methods that can easily be reversed anytime they like in the future.

Pretty darn smart if you ask me.

[sustento]

Too lazy to Google, but in other kingdoms, can foreigners own land in the kingdom? I thought the king "owns" all the land in a kingdom.

That's news to everyone who lives in the UK, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands or Spain...

[lazygourmet]

Too lazy to Google, but in other kingdoms, can foreigners own land in the kingdom? I thought the king "owns" all the land in a kingdom.

That's news to everyone who lives in the UK, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands or Spain...

... and Belgium.

[Scarpolo]

Since when has ownership facilitated education ?

The education and training for methods or techniques of construction dont require ownership.

Yes you are correct. I was meaning that ownership would need to also allow some sort of work permit capacity. For example perhaps supervisor capacity without actual sub contractor work. Yes may be far fetched but it brings in money from overseas, provides jobs,. Also if the foreign individual has skills and is allowed to work in some way brings training.

we are talking about people who work barefoot on construction sites, but still wear their hard hats and draw buckets of sand up 4 floors with a rope

[Scarpolo]

There would be a terrible lad grab, and as suggested above, a hike in prices to exclude the majority of Thais. It would deepen resentment already there for the foreigners nudging their way into business. Foreigners would not respect the character of the Thai landscape. The ugliest parts of Thailand are where foreign developers have replicated Western suburbia. Ugly ugly ugly.

You may be right, but,

I live by Fashion Island, and the Promenade, and it has the feel of every modern mall in america,

the shoppers inside are higher income, and dress the part, there are no minimum wage workers shopping there,

as such, it doesnt have the garbage being pushed in kiosks all over bkk, ,

it also has a high end organic market and plays, (as they all do, american music

if thats what you mean by alienating the Thai's, I say bring it on, because were it not for these western encroachments, we'd all be eating noodles and trying to step aside the hustlers and con artists that line every major road here

[Scarpolo]

Foreigners that want to own/control land in Thailand ......already do by the various means available.

And the very clever Thais (and sometimes farang scamming farang) have convinced them their "investment" is "safe".

Far from it, anytime they feel like it the government can "crack down" and just take the property back for having been obtained illegally, e.g. nominee directors.

I give up. At the moment Thailand is a basket case. Its kept alive by tourism. Yes we all love Thailand but let's get real. This is a time bomb . The infrastructure here I.e rail and light transport is a joke. Google this . kilometers of light rail in bkk and same for say Melbourne. Its like 10 tomes in favour of Melbourne with population one quarter Thai. Point is you selfish expats need to think about long term Thai and not your own life expectancy

Tourism's share of the Thai economy has been steadily declining. Yes 10% or so is significant, but hardly critical.

Sure it's less developed, but development for it's own sake is not a good thing in itself.

Empty land is wonderful, rampant construction a blight wherever it shows up.

Thailand is DEFINITELY wise to prevent foreign ownership of its land.

Now business startups and actually encouraging skilled immigration, those are other topics and I agree should be opened up a lot more.

But not land ownership or RE development business.

Official tourism numbers are not counting:

All the cash being handled by kiosks and non permanent shopping booths that line the streets wherever tourists are, and of those tourists weren't freely throwing 100's and 1,000's of Baht at these many booth operators, many whom are dealing in stolen, pirated, and second's. off cuts, and pre owned goods being sold as new to the unsuspecting, and you would see starvation and crime sky rocket.

Dont tell me tourists dont keep the average thai eating because, this is purely false

[wym]

Dont tell me tourists dont keep the average thai eating because, this is purely false

You're only seeing what's around YOU.

The average Thai doesn't see more than a half-dozen foreigners their entire life.

[nontabury]

Dont tell me tourists dont keep the average thai eating because, this is purely false

You're only seeing what's around YOU.

The average Thai doesn't see more than a half-dozen foreigners their entire life.

I find that quite unbelievable, so where does the average Thai live?.

I've travelled and visited most areas of Thailand, and yes sometimes on these travels I do not see another farang for a couple of days, but that's it, just a couple of days, surely there most be many other Farangs traveling around.

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[Scarpolo]

I can buy an interest in all of the land that I want in Thailand. If you think land in Thailand is undervalued buy a Thai Real Estate Investment Trust. Someone can educate me otherwise but I think all Farang can buy a REIT on the SET.

http://www.set.or.th/en/products/listing/criteria_p7.html

Buying paper, with paper, is not a hard asset,

it is a piece of paper, with espenses and not the upside of owning real land,

my g/f bought a piece of property, very small she said, no idea what that means however, for 30,000 baht

and has turned away multiple offers at 1,000,000 baht,

you cannot tell me that the Thais wont directly benefit from opening up the rules for non thai's

that said thai is for thai

[Scarpolo]

Dont tell me tourists dont keep the average thai eating because, this is purely false

You're only seeing what's around YOU.

The average Thai doesn't see more than a half-dozen foreigners their entire life.

I find that quite unbelievable, so where does the average Thai live?.

I've travelled and visited most areas of Thailand, and yes sometimes on these travels I do not see another farang for a couple of days, but that's it, just a couple of days, surely there most be many other Farangs traveling around.

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The "average" thai sees foreigners ever single day,

it is we farangs, that can go days without seeing another anglo, or indo european

sometimes when I hear English, I am thrilled,

I sometimes turn around and it is a Chinese person speaking perfect English,

I have yet to meet a Thai who can do that

[Thai at Heart]

Farang are rich.

Thai people poor.

If Farang allowed to buy land, there won't be land left for Thai people.

Or for rich thai people to add to their extensive land collection.

[jacksam]

Hell's bells your all missing the point. MY POST was about a very limited ownership for INDIVIDUALS. It was not about condo developments.

In any event I love all the 10 year expats ,married to Thai or not saying "leave Thailand the way it is "

There thinking is they don't give a stuff.

My Thai gf for example (and yes x bar for all wondering) states one thing to me .....I WOULD LOVE TO WORK AND EARN MONEY.

And don't be smart asses. Ladies and men here would like a job that pays more than 300baht a day.

And you pompous farang come here and say leave it as it is!!!!

Why ,so you can have cheap digs and shags etc. Strange as many farang have kids here. Oh I get it they care for themselves and those close but don't give a flying for the issan daughters. Selfish blokes. Go work in charity instead of the pattaya golf course

[jacksam]

Your all missing the point.

Foreign ownership for INDIVIDUALS would not push up prices. I give up. . Clearly no one here understands wealth creation for Thai people, not farang. I never suggested company players or foreign condo development. This joint is stuffed for Thai people because there is very low tax on land and the rich sit on it. And the not rich cannot sell it or use it. The land is owned by Thai people, broaden the purchaser based market and they make money. Very subjective that a farang will make much. Would be better investing in AU. . They would do it as they want to live here.

We are all missing the point? Have you ever heard of Supply and Demand? Of course prices will go up!

Besides, why should you, or any other foreigner 'own' a single square inch of this country, for any reason.

Stuff me you talk about supply/demand curves that you may of touched on in high school. Type something that i would show you understand economics or leave it. As for wanting to own a tiny bit here so I could massage my comfort zone. I think you will find many in my boat. Doesn't imply your rowing on wrong side but why be so narrow minded.

Maybe you don't own much in the way of real estate. Some people find it a warm blanket. And yes one that won't make money here. So your point is ???