Rice prices dropped to 8,000 - 8,200 baht per ton

[473geo]

I was looking around a car auction today attracted by the large number of Kubota tractors for sale.

Just a couple of years ago these new four wheel machines were appearing everywhere and now it seems the farmers can't pay the finance so they are being snatched back.

Well it will not be from 2.59 million farmers as it is reported on Tvisa, apparently they saw no benefit from the scheme, there you go every cloud has a silver lining!

You do know of course that many bought new tractors that were actually a little too light for intended the work? Not possible they could have traded up and left the smaller versions on the market no? You have also my figures which show the cost of hiring in, it is not economically viable to own a tractor for the small farmer, unless you go into business working for other farmers, even then your revenue may be a little sporadic not to mention seasonal. Most of the small farmer tractor owners I know have interests alongside farming or hire out. Plus the novelty quickly wears off when you spend your days bouncing around in dust and dirt. These are not air conditioned radio installed tractors are they?

[SICHONSTEVE]

I was looking around a car auction today attracted by the large number of Kubota tractors for sale.

Just a couple of years ago these new four wheel machines were appearing everywhere and now it seems the farmers can't pay the finance so they are being snatched back.

Well it will not be from 2.59 million farmers as it is reported on Tvisa, apparently they saw no benefit from the scheme, there you go every cloud has a silver lining!

You do know of course that many bought new tractors that were actually a little too light for intended the work? Not possible they could have traded up and left the smaller versions on the market no? You have also my figures which show the cost of hiring in, it is not economically viable to own a tractor for the small farmer, unless you go into business working for other farmers, even then your revenue may be a little sporadic not to mention seasonal. Most of the small farmer tractor owners I know have interests alongside farming or hire out. Plus the novelty quickly wears off when you spend your days bouncing around in dust and dirt. These are not air conditioned radio installed tractors are they?

It wasn't the fact that they saw no benefits (although that IS the way it would have turned out) but they didn't qualify for the scheme.

This scheme wasn't meant to benefit the poor farmers with small holdings it was meant to give them the impression that it was going to, so they voted them into power so that they could plunder the scheme. That element of the scheme worked a treat and it has ultimately benefitted Thailand as it will be instrumental in bringing this lot down (and out)!!!

[473geo]

Let me ask a question to those who would participate in these rice scheme discussions, who do you actually know who has been receiving payment for rice, ask them how much a kg they were paid over the last 5 years, when you come back with answers on the annual revenue per kg then perhaps I will begin to take you seriously

I have to admit, I don't know anyone, the two families I know participating in the scheme have not been paid for last year's crop and are facing serious financial hardship.

Both families are in what we are told is the idyllic province of Nakhon Sawan, it looks very much like they will join their neighbors selling land to cover the debts they have incurred due only to the failure of the government to pay them for their rice.

Would you like to discuss the impact that the PTP Government's failure to pay farmers for rice they have produced is having?

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss!

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

Edited March 9, 2014 by 473geo

[GuestHouse]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

Edited March 9, 2014 by GuestHouse

[Thai at Heart]

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What a load of <deleted>, For a start the BAAC has not been buying anything it is only an agent for the Govt which is supposed to pay into the bank which then pays the farmers.

Harvest is in full swing here now on the central plains and every day I watch the harvesters working and truck loads of rice being taken away, how the hell can any farmer clean, store or anything else that quantity of rice ?

They don't have warehouses or gear to do these jobs. The farmers job is to grow the rice not to process it, once it is harvested it is then passed on to the next person up the chain.

The ignorant trying to influence the gullible, unfortunately for you we are not all that thick.

Farmers often have small storage bins of rice. It needs to be basically threshed and sorted before it is delivered doesn't it? They can't just deliver it straight from the field stalk and all can they.

This used to be done by putting it on the road. They are supposed to do a basic cleaning and keep it and try to get the moisture down a bit. If the weather is good, this can be quite quick, but often they deliver rice at 20%+ moisture.

They get penalised for this. They get penalised for the "cleanliness" of the product.

Watch a rice cutter/combine sometime. It cuts the rice and seperates the grain from the stalk there and then. The grain is then dumped into a hopper on the back of the combine then pumped into a waiting truck when cutting is finished and usually delivered straight to a rice mill.

Not everywhere uses a machine. Certainly not in deep darkest isaan. Central plains very common. Still, it is meant to be held until it reduces to below 20% moisture.

Factory labour in isaan still.disappears during harvest.

Rice.doesn't come out of the field at 15%. And that is where the middle man comes in. He will start to buy from the farmer and take the drying responsibility

Edited March 9, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

With all those 'benefits' farmers will have had, surely there will be no poor farmers left in the rice growing part of Thailand.

With the current stock of rice under government control being sold as quickly as possible to pay outstanding bills to farmers, millers, warehouse owners it would seem that by the time that's done and hopefully before all stock sold, the BAAC will be stuck with a close to 800 billion hole which needs a real big carpet to hide it under. Government guaranteed that BAAC would run no risk in this marvelous scheme. Poor taxpayers.

In the mean time it would seem to become clear that somehow there are rice darmers who have not profitted from the money shower, who still wait for their money, who are no better of today than they were 2-1/2 years ago when the scheme started. Poor farmers.

Whatever new government we may get, a possible rice scheme will be rescaled to a level which will not make farmers happy. Again poor farmers.

[belg]

and thus the ponzi scheme ends, you wish

this joke will just continue

thais are impossible in admitting their mistakes

i have one of those at home

[473geo]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

I'm afraid your input is little more than a perception and outrage surrounding an unpaid debt.....and disclosure of your attempts to assist.....may I ask why you didn't offer a book on improving rice farming techniques, you know 'give a man a fish, teach a man to fish' much more effective according to some...

[chotthee]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

Good.

let cancel this scheme,and not to introduce any other anymore.

My tax money is better use in Bangkok, than paying these farmers.

[Goat Roper]

So this is what they mean when they say "Buy High and Sell Low" I always wondered about that

[Robby nz]

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What a load of <deleted>, For a start the BAAC has not been buying anything it is only an agent for the Govt which is supposed to pay into the bank which then pays the farmers.

Harvest is in full swing here now on the central plains and every day I watch the harvesters working and truck loads of rice being taken away, how the hell can any farmer clean, store or anything else that quantity of rice ?

They don't have warehouses or gear to do these jobs. The farmers job is to grow the rice not to process it, once it is harvested it is then passed on to the next person up the chain.

The ignorant trying to influence the gullible, unfortunately for you we are not all that thick.

Farmers often have small storage bins of rice. It needs to be basically threshed and sorted before it is delivered doesn't it? They can't just deliver it straight from the field stalk and all can they.

This used to be done by putting it on the road. They are supposed to do a basic cleaning and keep it and try to get the moisture down a bit. If the weather is good, this can be quite quick, but often they deliver rice at 20%+ moisture.

They get penalised for this. They get penalised for the "cleanliness" of the product.

Presumably T a H you are talking about rice that has been cut by hand with sickle and about the quantity of rice that a farmer keeps for their own use.

Very little rice is cut that way now and what the farmers keep for themselves they have methods of dealing with.

The vast majority is cut be machine, fed straight from the machine directly into a truck for delivery to a mill, if you have never seen this I can post photos.

[holeyman1]

i, myself wouldn't mind buying a tonne and let it sit in my barn.

1000 kgs, less wastage (ie rotten, feeding mice etc) would more or

less leave me with around 700kgs just for 8k bht.

I would think its a steal! Could probably eat it for a year (Isaan family in tow!)

but then again, they would probably have a MOQ...... (Minimum Order Quantity)

Edited March 9, 2014 by holeyman1

[473geo]

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What a load of <deleted>, For a start the BAAC has not been buying anything it is only an agent for the Govt which is supposed to pay into the bank which then pays the farmers.

Harvest is in full swing here now on the central plains and every day I watch the harvesters working and truck loads of rice being taken away, how the hell can any farmer clean, store or anything else that quantity of rice ?

They don't have warehouses or gear to do these jobs. The farmers job is to grow the rice not to process it, once it is harvested it is then passed on to the next person up the chain.

The ignorant trying to influence the gullible, unfortunately for you we are not all that thick.

Farmers often have small storage bins of rice. It needs to be basically threshed and sorted before it is delivered doesn't it? They can't just deliver it straight from the field stalk and all can they.

This used to be done by putting it on the road. They are supposed to do a basic cleaning and keep it and try to get the moisture down a bit. If the weather is good, this can be quite quick, but often they deliver rice at 20%+ moisture.

They get penalised for this. They get penalised for the "cleanliness" of the product.

Presumably T a H you are talking about rice that has been cut by hand with sickle and about the quantity of rice that a farmer keeps for their own use.

Very little rice is cut that way now and what the farmers keep for themselves they have methods of dealing with.

The vast majority is cut be machine, fed straight from the machine directly into a truck for delivery to a mill, if you have never seen this I can post photos.

You appear to be oblivious to the fact that this is not the case in other areas, do you even know what a rice barn is?

Have you never experienced the drying and cleaning of rice prior to storage on the farm?

You appear to be using the larger farms as an example, with little comprehension of a methodology that is prevalent throughout a large part of Thailand. Do you know why historically the farmers dry and store the rice?

Because Rob the smart guys do not sell when rice production is at the height of the cycle, where they would encounter the lowest price.

The machine also does not clean the rice effectively, there is chaff, moisture, insects, all in there which surely influences the price if the product goes straight from the machine. In fact the hand cut rice usually goes through a stationary thresher that gives a much cleaner product.

[Thai at Heart]

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What a load of <deleted>, For a start the BAAC has not been buying anything it is only an agent for the Govt which is supposed to pay into the bank which then pays the farmers.

Harvest is in full swing here now on the central plains and every day I watch the harvesters working and truck loads of rice being taken away, how the hell can any farmer clean, store or anything else that quantity of rice ?

They don't have warehouses or gear to do these jobs. The farmers job is to grow the rice not to process it, once it is harvested it is then passed on to the next person up the chain.

The ignorant trying to influence the gullible, unfortunately for you we are not all that thick.

Farmers often have small storage bins of rice. It needs to be basically threshed and sorted before it is delivered doesn't it? They can't just deliver it straight from the field stalk and all can they.

This used to be done by putting it on the road. They are supposed to do a basic cleaning and keep it and try to get the moisture down a bit. If the weather is good, this can be quite quick, but often they deliver rice at 20%+ moisture.

They get penalised for this. They get penalised for the "cleanliness" of the product.

Presumably T a H you are talking about rice that has been cut by hand with sickle and about the quantity of rice that a farmer keeps for their own use.

Very little rice is cut that way now and what the farmers keep for themselves they have methods of dealing with.

The vast majority is cut be machine, fed straight from the machine directly into a truck for delivery to a mill, if you have never seen this I can post photos.

A lot of isaan rice is still done by hand, the holdings are small, and some of the areas that produce hom Mali are quite hilly. As the above poster showed, the initial harvest is not enough to be accepted as deliverable quality to the factory, let alone moisture levels.

At the end of the day, if they don't harvest it at the right moisture they have to dry it at home or get a reduced price. Moisture is everything.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Jay Sata]

I'm surprised moisture is a problem in places such as Issan. In the UK wheat and barley are cut when the moisture is at a minimum.

Farmers all use moisture meters to decide on the crop cutting and the weather means the window is much smaller.

As for the rice harvesters they appear to be crude compared to western combines and I suspect the technology lacks decent screens and seperators.

[AleG]

double post deleted

Edited March 9, 2014 by AleG

[AleG]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Talking from experience?

November 2013, before the protests:

http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices.

The November 20, 2013 auction was the sixth by the government this year and 300,000 tons of comprised 100% second class Jasmine rice and A1- broken milled rice, and about 152,000 of 5% white rice. Trade sources say the 5% broken rice on offer was probably sold at around 20% below the current market price of around 13,000 baht (about $408) per ton.

In earlier tenders, the government has sold 293,000 tons of the 960,339 tons of rice on offer...

Now tell us again why the EC and the protests are to blame for the government being unable to sell the rice, even at bellow market prices.

[GuestHouse]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

Good.

let cancel this scheme,and not to introduce any other anymore.

My tax money is better use in Bangkok, than paying these farmers.

But, as has been pointed out, not all the farmers are being paid. (Since last year)

[GuestHouse]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

I'm afraid your input is little more than a perception and outrage surrounding an unpaid debt.....and disclosure of your attempts to assist.....may I ask why you didn't offer a book on improving rice farming techniques, you know 'give a man a fish, teach a man to fish' much more effective according to some...

No, my input is my account of Thai farmers I personally know who are suffering real hardship due to the failures of the PTP Rice Pledging Scheme. A tragic story we know to be repeated tens of thousand times across Thailand.

The idea of a book on improving rice farming techniques is a bit late when people who have been trapped in debt by the PTP Government's failure to pay them for the rice they grew last year has left families without money for the very basics of life and mounting debts.

With respect to the 'teach a man to fish' philosophy, I think I can be rightly proud of my participation in doing just that in Thailand over the past 25 years. When the opportunity arises I'm always willing to offer my help. But thank you for the advice, its not your fault you were 25 years too late, but I take it you mean well.

[Fat Haggis]

The book comment was tongue in cheek with reference to an earlier post.

[dontscrewmyday]

If I understand correctly rice is expensive and there is not enough to feed everybody because their rice is rotten.

We should vote her for the worst president in the world....

[Thai at Heart]

If I understand correctly rice is expensive and there is not enough to feed everybody because their rice is rotten.

We should vote her for the worst president in the world....

Largely there is a glut. The chinese are no doubt buying the absolute cream of the stored product.

[473geo]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

I'm afraid your input is little more than a perception and outrage surrounding an unpaid debt.....and disclosure of your attempts to assist.....may I ask why you didn't offer a book on improving rice farming techniques, you know 'give a man a fish, teach a man to fish' much more effective according to some...

No, my input is my account of Thai farmers I personally know who are suffering real hardship due to the failures of the PTP Rice Pledging Scheme. A tragic story we know to be repeated tens of thousand times across Thailand.

The idea of a book on improving rice farming techniques is a bit late when people who have been trapped in debt by the PTP Government's failure to pay them for the rice they grew last year has left families without money for the very basics of life and mounting debts.

With respect to the 'teach a man to fish' philosophy, I think I can be rightly proud of my participation in doing just that in Thailand over the past 25 years. When the opportunity arises I'm always willing to offer my help. But thank you for the advice, its not your fault you were 25 years too late, but I take it you mean well.

Good for you Guesthouse I'm pleased you make the effort to assist, now just how much are these people owed by the government?

Edited March 9, 2014 by 473geo

[kikoman]

Life is great in a rural village far away from the Farang infested Ghettos!

Cheers

And yet, they have you.

Yes, a lot better then having you, a whole lot better!

[kikoman]

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have not been any where close to Thai rice farming have you, Still using water buffalo, give me a break!

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor, when the farmers came to Bangkok, those are the tractor used in the field, that is why they are hurting for money, to make on lump sum payment per year on the payments for the tractors.at harvest time.

The only problem is the greed of the middle man, there is a market for that rice now! at great prices!

Cheers

You may be right but tell how many times you eat rice. People today all over the world eat less rice than before.

Rich Asians and Rich people of my color will not be caught dead eating rice that is the problem

You may be surprise at who is placing more rice in their diet, Sub Saharan Africa, USA and the EU.

I eat rice at least once a day, as my natural diet includes a lot of rice and I love Thai food, at least once a day at most three times a day!

Cheers

[kikoman]

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What a load of <deleted>, For a start the BAAC has not been buying anything it is only an agent for the Govt which is supposed to pay into the bank which then pays the farmers.

Harvest is in full swing here now on the central plains and every day I watch the harvesters working and truck loads of rice being taken away, how the hell can any farmer clean, store or anything else that quantity of rice ?

They don't have warehouses or gear to do these jobs. The farmers job is to grow the rice not to process it, once it is harvested it is then passed on to the next person up the chain.

The ignorant trying to influence the gullible, unfortunately for you we are not all that thick.

Farmers often have small storage bins of rice. It needs to be basically threshed and sorted before it is delivered doesn't it? They can't just deliver it straight from the field stalk and all can they.

This used to be done by putting it on the road. They are supposed to do a basic cleaning and keep it and try to get the moisture down a bit. If the weather is good, this can be quite quick, but often they deliver rice at 20%+ moisture.

They get penalised for this. They get penalised for the "cleanliness" of the product.

Watch a rice cutter/combine sometime. It cuts the rice and seperates the grain from the stalk there and then. The grain is then dumped into a hopper on the back of the combine then pumped into a waiting truck when cutting is finished and usually delivered straight to a rice mill.

You are absolutely correct!

He just tries to spread his B/S all over, by his statements you know he knows nothing about rice farming!

A combine comes out and cuts the rice, separates it and dumps it into waiting trucks all the farmer does is oversee the job, his wife and family make food and refreshments for all.

Cheers

[kikoman]

I was looking around a car auction today attracted by the large number of Kubota tractors for sale.

Just a couple of years ago these new four wheel machines were appearing everywhere and now it seems the farmers can't pay the finance so they are being snatched back.

Well it will not be from 2.59 million farmers as it is reported on Tvisa, apparently they saw no benefit from the scheme, there you go every cloud has a silver lining!

You do know of course that many bought new tractors that were actually a little too light for intended the work? Not possible they could have traded up and left the smaller versions on the market no? You have also my figures which show the cost of hiring in, it is not economically viable to own a tractor for the small farmer, unless you go into business working for other farmers, even then your revenue may be a little sporadic not to mention seasonal. Most of the small farmer tractor owners I know have interests alongside farming or hire out. Plus the novelty quickly wears off when you spend your days bouncing around in dust and dirt. These are not air conditioned radio installed tractors are they?

Yes,the tractor owners are always willing to do extra jobs for those farmers that do not own tractors, There is a great demand for their services,

Another issue is the price of 15,000 baht per ton as the price every one states, a few in our village received 12,000 baht per ton most received 11,000 baht per ton. The rice scheme allows a person to sell his rice to the scheme for up to 15,000 baht per ton and does not guarantee 15,000 baht per ton which depends on the quality of the rice!

Cheers

[kikoman]

Nope, I think these people should be paid post haste, nothing to discuss

Also if you do not know the numbers surrounding the revenue, you do not supply the percentage of revenue increase during the implementation of the rice scheme, you only have the ability and understanding to enter the discussion with an unbalanced view, as such have nothing more to add to the long list of outpouring by those carrying the same credentials.

I've given you the revenue data for the two families I know - Their income from the sale of their crop last year is ZERO.

On top of which they have added debt arising from income not received.

Your instance that they should be paid is cold comfort and superfluous - they are quite cable of insisting for themselves - Would that the PTP were listening.

I've found my personal donations of money, food and medicines to these two families to be a bit more useful than hollow promises and the pointless indignant insistances of strangers.

Sorry if my input is not convenient to your point of view.

Good.

let cancel this scheme,and not to introduce any other anymore.

My tax money is better use in Bangkok, than paying these farmers.

Spare us the suspense, Not many Farangs pay taxes in Thailand unless you have a great big business venture!

I Believe the next government should subsidize the rice crop, help the farmer set up Co-ops to mill and store their rice for sale!

Cheers

[The Deerhunter]

I was looking around a car auction today attracted by the large number of Kubota tractors for sale.

Just a couple of years ago these new four wheel machines were appearing everywhere and now it seems the farmers can't pay the finance so they are being snatched back.

Well it will not be from 2.59 million farmers as it is reported on Tvisa, apparently they saw no benefit from the scheme, there you go every cloud has a silver lining!

You do know of course that many bought new tractors that were actually a little too light for intended the work? Not possible they could have traded up and left the smaller versions on the market no? You have also my figures which show the cost of hiring in, it is not economically viable to own a tractor for the small farmer, unless you go into business working for other farmers, even then your revenue may be a little sporadic not to mention seasonal. Most of the small farmer tractor owners I know have interests alongside farming or hire out. Plus the novelty quickly wears off when you spend your days bouncing around in dust and dirt. These are not air conditioned radio installed tractors are they?

Yes,the tractor owners are always willing to do extra jobs for those farmers that do not own tractors, There is a great demand for their services,

Another issue is the price of 15,000 baht per ton as the price every one states, a few in our village received 12,000 baht per ton most received 11,000 baht per ton. The rice scheme allows a person to sell his rice to the scheme for up to 15,000 baht per ton and does not guarantee 15,000 baht per ton which depends on the quality of the rice!

Cheers

All sweetness & light if you are one of the ones being paid, isn't it. But disastrous for those not being paid. So, K-man if your family are being paid then they are the lucky ones for some reason. You should however be able to empathize with the consequences on the family budget for those possibly millions whose rice has been purchased & stored somewhere but NEVER PAID FOR!!!!!. And that this situation existed well before the magic 09 of December 2013 when you say " the rice started piling up." I assume that as your family & neighbours were paid you just never noticed the problem before then.

[kikoman]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Talking from experience?

November 2013, before the protests:

http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/thailand-government-sells-200000-tons-rice-auction#sthash.OhPtK35k.dpuf

The Thai government sold around 200,000 tons of the 452,000 tons of rice offered in an auction held on November 20, 2013, according to government sources. However, trade sources say 300,000 tons of rice was sold in the auction. Only four bidders participated in the auction and sale prices are expected to be below market prices.

The November 20, 2013 auction was the sixth by the government this year and 300,000 tons of comprised 100% second class Jasmine rice and A1- broken milled rice, and about 152,000 of 5% white rice. Trade sources say the 5% broken rice on offer was probably sold at around 20% below the current market price of around 13,000 baht (about $408) per ton.

In earlier tenders, the government has sold 293,000 tons of the 960,339 tons of rice on offer...

Now tell us again why the EC and the protests are to blame for the government being unable to sell the rice, even at bellow market prices.

Do you not realize what this thread is about, you always are trying to change the topic, to your own personal rant, which I could care less about.

The topic is the price of rice dropping to 8000- 8200 baht a ton, stay on topic and address why rice is selling at that price when there is no over supply or any drop in demand on the international market.

I stated that it was because the Thai millers and exporters are trying to manipulate the price to take advantage of the suffering of the rice farmers, to make a bigger profit for themselves a great big profit, buy it at $250 a ton and sell it for the market price for 5% broken white rice for $458. a ton!

Cheers