Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[Adeeos]

I have a good friend,,, that's crew on a USA, to Asia flight nearly bi-monthly,,,, I asked him while he was here the other day,,,, "What's the PROFESSIONAL take on this?... what are pilots/crew saying?",,,, he says,,, the pilots were in on it,, they dissabled cabin oxygen masks, along with all coms,,,, SINGLE pilot could have waited for the co-pilot to take a leak, locked him outta the flight deck,,,,, flew to 45K,,, killed the pax,,,, dropped down, landed,, SOMEWHERE,,,, offloaded the bodies,,, (with help of course),,, blasted/removed the logos... added new ones,,,, flew it to a middle eastern country,, and are prepping it with bio/nuke, etc payload,,,, He says,,,, NOOO need for cell blockers, etc,,, climbing to 45K,,, would disable all PAX within 10 mins total,,,, then NO need to worry about anyone trying to contact ANYONE,,, after that,,,, pilots. could do, fly,, wherever they wanted,,,, The pilot is KNOWN to have been very upset about political issues,, Family issues,,,, The fate of the pilots?.... 9mm to the back of the head ... WHY would a muslim faction, do this to a flight from a muslim country?,,,, collateral damage,, the, "greater good",,,, where better to hide, than in plain sight?,,,,,

Edited March 18, 2014 by Adeeos

[melvinmelvin]

Julie, I'm a pilot so make that 5 instead of the 4 that have been mentioned. I got my license in the late 1970's.

There are (who knows how many tens of thousands) of pilots in this world? Strange that none of them knows a "secret" code word. It wouldn't be a secret for long with that many pilots out there.

"Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead." - Benjamin Franklin.

Mate I'm a driver, i got my license in 1976, and I've driven a few million kilometers since, but would you believe that I have no clue about the jargon and codes F1 drivers use to communicate with the technicians in the pits.

Does that mean they don't use any codes ?

Don't blame us that you were unable to make it to the top of your profession, you should have tried harder at school. I made it to the top of my profession and....there are no code words. You have now had 5 pilots say it. F1 drivers may use specific codes to indicate an issue but they will be internal so that they are not known by the other teams who are listening in. Last I knew they never had to send a code because someone stopped them on the track, jumped in and said take me to Libya. There are 800K pilots alone in the USA if there were a code word don't you think one of them would have found it ball bustingly impossible not to brag about it with their mates at the pub. Nobody ever has, the reason is simple, I am so sorry to disappoint you, but after 35 years trying to work your way up your profession I guess the feeling of disappointment is no stranger.

I have also done consultancy work at the very highest level in the European regulatory authority for aviation AND the FAA and you know what...no code words. If you simply accept what 5 professionals are telling you it will stop you looking like a tool. The other forum member who insists that there are/must be code words actually sent the 'code word' he could not mention to me via private message (that was good security then!). Forum rules prohibit me from putting that message on here, suffice to say I nearly ruined my keyboard and monitor, he has since skulled off as he should and has not been seen since. It made my day and I will be passing this hot info to all the pilots I know, providing they sign a disclaimer first in the event of any physical injury whilst laughing so hard.

you seem pretty worked up re those non exisiting secret code words

dunno if they are there or not, but it doesn't bother me a lot if some people

wrongly think there are secret code words

people are entitled to opinions and beliefs, whether you deem 'em correct or not

have a beer

[sunshine51]

Post #2114 gave this link....

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

and I went to see what the man says and read the replies. For those

who feel the link is outta date you must read the entire post and it is

quite long indeed with the last reply at 1019PM today to Mr. Goodfellows

last statement posted at 737PM today...as I pass this info here.

What I found interesting, not only Goodfellow's logic, but also this

link to a post from a Maldives newspaper...

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

I must admit that if one extrapolates Goodfellows hypothesis and

what the Maldives paper states then the SAR mission ain't gonna

find squat where they're looking at presently.

Plus I reckon this hypothesis is as good as any that has previously

been undertaken in the SAR scenario. Unless of course, somebody

in a certain government knows better. To which I will be asking this

question at tomorrows presser.

[khaosai]

I have a good friend,,, that's crew on a USA, to Asia flight nearly bi-monthly,,,, I asked him while he was here the other day,,,, "What's the PROFESSIONAL take on this?... what are pilots/crew saying?",,,, he says,,, the pilots were in on it,, they dissabled cabin oxygen masks, along with all coms,,,, flew to 45K,,, killed the pax,,,, dropped down, landed,, SOMEWHERE,,,, offloaded the bodies,,, (with help of course),,, blasted/removed the logos... added new ones,,,, flew it to a middle eastern country,, and are prepping it with bio/nuke, etc payload,,,, He says,,,, NOOO need for cell blockers, etc,,, climbing to 45K,,, would disable all PAX within 10 mins total,,,, then NO need to worry about anyone trying to contact ANYONE,,, after that,,,, pilots. could do, fly,, wherever they wanted,,,, The pilot is KNOWN to have been very upset about political issues,, Family issues,,,, The fate of the pilots?.... 9mm to the back of the head ... WHY would a muslim faction, do this to a flight from a muslim country?,,,, collateral damage,, the, "greater good",,,, where better to hide, than in plain sight?,,,,,

Hi,

I don't think the pilots would attempt to fly to 45000ft to ensure the passengers are incapacitated. The same effect would be achieved at 35000ft within a short space of time. The maximum operating altitude of the 777 is 43100ft, and assuming a weight of 240 tons then the max altitude would be in the region of 38000ft. Flight above that becomes a challenge as the margin between flying too fast and too slow becomes so small. The amount of available excess thrust available is virtually zero when flying at maximum altitude. It's not a place to be during normal operations.

Significant changes in altitude to me would indicate either control problems, either with the aircraft systems or a fight for control within the flight deck.

As an aside, has there been any mention from the Malaysian authorities on the actual fuel uplift on that particular flight. It seem it may have been airborne for longer than I first thought. It may have uplifted additional fuel for any number of reasons of course.

Going back to the secret word that has been mentioned here that should be used between a pilot and controller. I had a look at some more documentation. The only reference I could find where the pilot would use a specific word is when it's intercepted by a countries military fighter aircraft. The word to be used when communication with the intercepting jet is "hijack"

I therefore think that from this we can assume it's ok to use the same word with an air traffic controller. The actual choice of words however may have to vary depending on the actual situation on a particular day.

Healthy debate is good online. Whether your an expert or not, it's good to hear other peoples views. I for one am stumped to what's happened, but what I can offer is fairly accurate operational information on the aircraft in question.

Edited March 18, 2014 by khaosai

[Julie H]

Yes have a beer & relax Gentlemanjim not to many though, we dont want you harrassing your wife or family members with ramblings of non existant code words

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[khaosai]

Post #2114 gave this link....

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

and I went to see what the man says and read the replies. For those

who feel the link is outta date you must read the entire post and it is

quite long indeed with the last reply at 1019PM today to Mr. Goodfellows

last statement posted at 737PM today...as I pass this info here.

What I found interesting, not only Goodfellow's logic, but also this

link to a post from a Maldives newspaper...

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

I must admit that if one extrapolates Goodfellows hypothesis and

what the Maldives paper states then the SAR mission ain't gonna

find squat where they're looking at presently.

Plus I reckon this hypothesis is as good as any that has previously

been undertaken in the SAR scenario. Unless of course, somebody

in a certain government knows better. To which I will be asking this

question at tomorrows presser.

Some good points in the first link but some parts need clarification.

Tire failure on take off would be apparent to the crew. Vibration, directional control, then possibly slight rubber smell via the air conditioning. Once airborne the tire pressure monitoring system would indicate a tire deflation. If a fire occurs in the wheel well, leave the gear down or if retracted then lower it until a certain time has elapsed.

The 777 smoke, fire or fumes checklist is quite specific on what components to turn off.

Only one smoke hood available in the flight deck which will last approx 15 to 20 mins, but any smoke event that occurs requires both pilots to use the oxygen masks provided at each station, 4 in total.

Edited March 18, 2014 by khaosai

[Adeeos]

I have a good friend,,, that's crew on a USA, to Asia flight nearly bi-monthly,,,, I asked him while he was here the other day,,,, "What's the PROFESSIONAL take on this?... what are pilots/crew saying?",,,, he says,,, the pilots were in on it,, they dissabled cabin oxygen masks, along with all coms,,,, SINGLE pilot could have waited for the co-pilot to take a leak, locked him outta the flight deck,,,,, flew to 45K,,, killed the pax,,,, dropped down, landed,, SOMEWHERE,,,, offloaded the bodies,,, (with help of course),,, blasted/removed the logos... added new ones,,,, flew it to a middle eastern country,, and are prepping it with bio/nuke, etc payload,,,, He says,,,, NOOO need for cell blockers, etc,,, climbing to 45K,,, would disable all PAX within 10 mins total,,,, then NO need to worry about anyone trying to contact ANYONE,,, after that,,,, pilots. could do, fly,, wherever they wanted,,,, The pilot is KNOWN to have been very upset about political issues,, Family issues,,,, The fate of the pilots?.... 9mm to the back of the head ... WHY would a muslim faction, do this to a flight from a muslim country?,,,, collateral damage,, the, "greater good",,,, where better to hide, than in plain sight?,,,,,

Something with this level of planning,, doesn't happen overnight,,, The pilot's political views were well known prior,,, He's been divorced, but living with his former mate for awhile,,, WHY did she choose to move out the DAY before this flight?,,, did he KNOW what was going to happen,, do/say something to get them outta the house prior,, KNOWING his home would come under scrutiny?,,, did he recently increase his life insurance?,,, Etc, etc,, etc,,,,

Edited March 18, 2014 by Adeeos

[sunshine51]

Post #2114 gave this link....

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

and I went to see what the man says and read the replies. For those

who feel the link is outta date you must read the entire post and it is

quite long indeed with the last reply at 1019PM today to Mr. Goodfellows

last statement posted at 737PM today...as I pass this info here.

What I found interesting, not only Goodfellow's logic, but also this

link to a post from a Maldives newspaper...

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

I must admit that if one extrapolates Goodfellows hypothesis and

what the Maldives paper states then the SAR mission ain't gonna

find squat where they're looking at presently.

Plus I reckon this hypothesis is as good as any that has previously

been undertaken in the SAR scenario. Unless of course, somebody

in a certain government knows better. To which I will be asking this

question at tomorrows presser.

Some good points in the first link but some parts need clarification.

Tire failure on take off would be apparent to the crew. Vibration, directional control, then possibly slight rubber smell via the air conditioning. Once airborne the tire pressure monitoring system would indicate a tire deflation. If a fire occurs in the wheel well, leave the gear down or if retracted then lower it until a certain time has elapsed.

The 777 smoke, fire or fumes checklist is quite specific on what components to turn off.

Only one smoke hood available in the flight deck which will last approx 15 to 20 mins, but any smoke event that occurs requires both pilots to use the oxygen masks provided at each station, 4 in total.

The tire failure doesn't jive with me either...however...in that first link there is

mention of Li batteries being carried in cargo and this makes me wonder where

that info came from since the cargo manifest has never been made public as

far as I know.

[pmugghc]

Post #2114 gave this link....

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

and I went to see what the man says and read the replies. For those

who feel the link is outta date you must read the entire post and it is

quite long indeed with the last reply at 1019PM today to Mr. Goodfellows

last statement posted at 737PM today...as I pass this info here.

What I found interesting, not only Goodfellow's logic, but also this

link to a post from a Maldives newspaper...

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

I must admit that if one extrapolates Goodfellows hypothesis and

what the Maldives paper states then the SAR mission ain't gonna

find squat where they're looking at presently.

Plus I reckon this hypothesis is as good as any that has previously

been undertaken in the SAR scenario. Unless of course, somebody

in a certain government knows better. To which I will be asking this

question at tomorrows presser.

Very interesting that they saw the plane going south east, meaning it had turned.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Tywais]

The topic is getting quite a bit off track now and a circular argument going regarding this code word. It is time to stop the debate on this and continue on the original topic at hand.

//edit - also did some cleanup of the topic by removing argumentative posts.

[SurfRider]

.

Just for a departure from all the speculation and conjecture, here's a link to a panoramic view of the Avionics compartment on a Boeing 777.

One pilot on one of the TV media panels who has flown a 777 for four years, said he has only been down to this room in the aircraft two times and wouldn't have a clue what most of the avionics gear does. Use your screen cursor to pan around the room.

http://hawkeyemedia.com/panos/777_Avionics.asp

.

[EyesWideOpen]

Jesus H Christ......I have seen a pit bull with a bloody bone which seemed less aggressive than " gentleman"jim.

And less inclined to make a fool of itself as well. Ok , with the mod's permission, time to put this issue to sleep.

Here, from the national archives of the United States of America Government.

(FAA) Boston Center Interview with Terry Biggio, Deputy of Facility, Boston Center.

This excerpt is from the second page......

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-01153.pdf

"Specifically, Air Traffic Controllers are taught that a hijack would include a covert sign

from the cockpit, either use of the transponder code 7500, which flashes "HIJACK" on

the data block for the flight on the TMU (traffic monitoring unit), or the pilot would have

used covert language (the word "trip" to describe the airplane's course) to signal the

ATC. In simulated hijack exercises the pilot would be in contact with the ATC, and they

would be able to verbally confirm "7500" for a hijack, "7600" for a malfunctioning

transponder, and "7700" for an emergency."

As per the boastful challenge of gentlejim of awarding $ 1000 to be able to prove this,

man up and please send the money to the Father Ray Foundation in Pattaya. And be

sure to send me proof of sending it. The kids will appreciate it.

This information is from 2003, in the national archives of the United States Government,

and thus freely available in the public domain. So I suspect the password has been changed

by now...... To the mods, I apologize, just wanted to clear things up. Was getting tired

of the bile spewing out from gentlemanjim. And as I indicated earlier, this information is

relevant as it indicates that this was not a forced hijacking...This will be my final post on this subject.

Edited March 18, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[JesseFrank]

I gave you my answer in post 2129, yes it was a very simple question which was answered, but although I have tried to make things as simple as I can for you today, you just don't seem to get it. I also see you are adding to your previous simple question by adding the caveat 'since 9/11'. Well for me, yes, for the others ask them.

I see the post now, as it has been hidden previously together with a few other posts, and now seemingly replace.

And did you answer my simple question ? No you didn't, you avoided to answer it, by saying you did piloting as a profession.

Those pilots that are spraying fields in the US are also professional pilots, but that is still a far cry from a commercial airline pilot. So what would you know about what happened in the commercial airline business after 9/11, the mother of all hijacks.

So I take it that you sprayed fields, and now are bragging.

internet forum

Web definitions

An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people pretend to be someone else.

Well jessie, as a military pilot that flew combat missions , then a commercial airline pilot and then someone that owns a self started company that has made (and continues to make) millions providing training to pilots, engineers and cabin crew in commercial aviation world-wide I am unafraid of my pedigree and provenance (as I said, I have done flying as a profession). Crop spraying - never done it but given the chance I would do it tomorrow as it is one of the most fun, demanding flying jobs requiring the greatest of skill, whose pilots possess a hands on skill-set far in excess of many commercial aviation pilots, so your attempts to knock them are a bit of a fail. Oh, and anyone that has done crop spraying for 30 years and is still alive to tell the tale deserves full bragging rights. I see now why you struggled to make the top of your own profession by needing everything spelled out in very simple terms, well now it has been. Ciao.

I didn't knock anyone, I just made clear that every profession has it's own secrets. Crop sprayers know things that commercial airline pilots don't know and vice versa, because they are both pilots but in a different field.

And if I made it to the toip of my profession I will leave in the middle, let's just say that I started my own legal business at the age of 23 and retired from all work at the age of 31. Which is now almost 30 years ago.

[Songhua]

Just been fiddling around with a map.

Beijing is approximately 37 degrees north and 14 degrees east of KL.

Coincidentally, the search area in the Indian Ocean off Australia is approximately 37 degrees south and 14 degrees west of KL.

ie, if you draw a straight line from Beijing through KL and continue it on for the same distance, it will end up pretty much at that search area.

Why choose to search that particular sector of all places along the various arcs and lines we've been hearing about? Have they figured out (or been told) that someone aboard the aircraft wanted to ditch it at a particular location? Was there a clue left by the perpetrator?

This may explain the criss-crossing, seemingly needless heading to waypoints and the sighting by villagers in The Maldives of a large low-flying aircraft heading southeast. That is, fly around burning off fuel until you've got it calculated to run out at your intended location ... then set autopilot. All sad thoughts.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Songhua

[3NUMBAS]

they have 10 million sq miles to search so not much chance of spotting the seat cushions bobbing about .

forget the pi55ing contest about the secret password its only known to numpties with too much time on their hands .

they had time to make a general distress call anyways ,i reckon they were out of their heads on a fat joint laced with opium .

and lost the plot ...

[napawan28]

MISSING MH 370

Thai Air Force radar may have picked up MH 370: ACM Prachin

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A Thai Air Force radar station in Surat Thani detected a passenger aircraft that departed from Malaysia but diverted and passed the port city of Butterworth, Malaysia, Thai Air Force's chief ACM Prajin Juntong said Tuesday.

The aircraft could then have flown to the Straits of Malacca, the general said, adding that this information confirmed what Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak said in a press conference concerning the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines' flight MH 370.

However, Prachin said, it has yet to be confirmed whether the aircraft detected by the Surat Thani radar station was actually the missing flight.

He was speaking as Malaysia is seeking the help of governments across a large expanse of Asia in the search for the Boeing 777, which has been missing since March 9 and had 239 people on board.

Najib said that the plane deliberately diverted from its flight path and new data showed the last communication between the missing plane and satellites, almost seven hours after it turned back and crossed the Malay peninsula.

Prachin said he would have the information handed over to Malaysian Air Force.

Meanwhile caretaker Foreign Minister Surapong Tohvichakchaikul said his Malaysian counterpart would call him to talk about cooperation in the search for the missing aircraft.

-- The Nation 2014-03-18

Looks like the Thai military knows more about what's going on in Malaysian airspace than the Malaysian military does. I find that quite surprising.

What I would find more interesting is, if they had any information at all, why has it taken 12 days to say anything. Surely the Thai military did know a plane went missing and could have flown over Thailand over a week ago? Maybe not?

Maybe Thai should say Darling Malaysia, My radar found your missing aircraft in your airspace and near your military base (Butterworth). Why you can not detect it?

[JoeLing]

Most puzzling at all. Why is it not, as usual in such cases, an international team that leads and

coordinates the investigations? Why does Malaysia insists on doing it their own way? What
is there to hide?

A few days back I read, someone working on an oil rig to the east of Vietnam saw a fire in the sky.
At the same time, china recorded some seismic activities in the same area but I have not read
anything in the press saying they searched that area. Looking at the recent pictures with the
possible radius of the last ping but back to the east, that would just about be where that oil-rig
worker saw something.

An other theory, looking at the last position of civilian contact with the plane and the last possible
position by the army would suggest the plane would be heading to Langkawi as "Goodfellow"

suggests but if one extends that line, compares the distance from the initial loss of contact to
Bejing (≈ 2400 Miles) and measures that along that extended line, one would just about find

Diego Garcia (≈ 2375 Miles) as some Russians suggested.

As for the motive, I don't believe it's just the usual hijacking as there would be either demands
or someone would want to take credit for his achievement. Because of the altitude of 45'000 ft
the plane went up to, I believe the people on board were of no interest, passed away silently,
maybe just "collateral damage"?

Some already suggested, the plane could be repainted, re-coded and used for an other 9/11
and blame could be put in to some one else's back yard in order to justify some kind of action
against some "unfriendly nations". Somehow Iran, North Korea, even Russia springs in mind?
Maybe checking the stock market could give some clues of where that target could be and
who masterminded "with surgical precision" this whole story.

Now what's about the discrepancies? Malaysian Airways and the Malaysian Government kept
releasing contradictory statements about passengers who booked that flight, about passengers
who checked in and about the passengers on the plane? How comes?

Malaysia's government instantly denied the report that army radar picked up something that could
have been MH370 (they didn't say there might have been something but needs further examination,
they clearly said they did NOT see anything unusual) only to confirm later that one of their radars
did pick up something. Same with Thailand, first they didn't see anything on their radar, now they did.
("Either you're with us or you're against us" springs in mind)

In my opinion, the target was not the people and not necessarily the plane but what about the cargo?
There has been no information at all about the cargo manifest.The plane could have been ditched
anywhere but most likely, somewhere at sea far away from praying radar. I'm pretty sure, a skilled pilot
could ditch the plane safely somewhere on water as the pilot did on the Hudson river. The plane could
be sunk without traces after the cargo was removed.

Well, suppose WikiLeaks will inform us in due time.

Edited March 18, 2014 by JoeLing

[GentlemanJim]

Most puzzling at all. Why is it not, as usual in such cases, an international team that leads and

coordinates the investigations? Why does Malaysia insists on doing it their own way? What

is there to hide?

A few days back I read, someone working on an oil rig to the east of Vietnam saw a fire in the sky.

At the same time, china recorded some seismic activities in the same area but I have not read

anything in the press saying they searched that area. Looking at the recent pictures with the

possible radius of the last ping but back to the east, that would just about be where that oil-rig

worker saw something.

An other theory, looking at the last position of civilian contact with the plane and the last possible

position by the army would suggest the plane would be heading to Langkawi as "Goodfellow"

suggests but if one extends that line, compares the distance from the initial loss of contact to

Bejing (≈ 2400 Miles) and measures that along that extended line, one would just about find

Diego Garcia (≈ 2375 Miles) as some Russians suggested.

As for the motive, I don't believe it's just the usual hijacking as there would be either demands

or someone would want to take credit for his achievement. Because of the altitude of 45'000 ft

the plane went up to, I believe the people on board were of no interest, passed away silently,

maybe just "collateral damage"?

Some already suggested, the plane could be repainted, re-coded and used for an other 9/11

and blame could be put in to some one else's back yard in order to justify some kind of action

against some "unfriendly nations". Somehow Iran, North Korea, even Russia springs in mind?

Maybe checking the stock market could give some clues of where that target could be and

who masterminded "with surgical precision" this whole story.

Now what's about the discrepancies? Malaysian Airways and the Malaysian Government kept

releasing contradictory statements about passengers who booked that flight, about passengers

who checked in and about the passengers on the plane? How comes?

Malaysia's government instantly denied the report that army radar picked up something that could

have been MH370 (they didn't say there might have been something but needs further examination,

they clearly said they did NOT see anything unusual) only to confirm later that one of their radars

did pick up something. Same with Thailand, first they didn't see anything on their radar, now they did.

("Either you're with us or you're against us" springs in mind)

In my opinion, the target was not the people and not necessarily the plane but what about the cargo?

There has been no information at all about the cargo manifest.The plane could have been ditched

anywhere but most likely, somewhere at sea far away from praying radar. I'm pretty sure, a skilled pilot

could ditch the plane safely somewhere on water as the pilot did on the Hudson river and then what

ever cargo was on board. The plane could be sunk without traces after the cargo was removed.

Well, suppose WikiLeaks will inform us in due time.

The cargo angle is of huge interest and it would be good to see an accurate inventory. The only issue is that if the cargo were so sensitive to be so valuable or perhaps so dangerous then transport in a purpose designed escorted aircraft would have been more appropriate/likely, As regards ditching an aircraft the size of the t7, it is possible but would require immense skill, in that very few large hull aircraft have been landed on water and stayed in one piece. That said very few have landed on water (any?) in a controlled manner with intent so success would be much more likely of course.

The search area is now just so immense it is almost impossible. Only a chance encounter or debris being washed up on a beach with an informed population is going to help solve this, other than information as yet undisclosed.

[3NUMBAS]

the cargo comprised 3-4 tons of mangosteens

so much for the secret gold bars dduuhhh

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/no-hazardous-cargo-just-tonnes-of-mangosteens-on-flight-mh370-says-airlines

[khunPer]

This guy may have a resonable theory on the mystery:

»Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?« (Edit: as radar shadow from Andeman Sea to ???)
http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

Edited March 18, 2014 by khunPer

[tobf16]

I have a good friend,,, that's crew on a USA, to Asia flight nearly bi-monthly,,,, I asked him while he was here the other day,,,, "What's the PROFESSIONAL take on this?... what are pilots/crew saying?",,,, he says,,, the pilots were in on it,, they dissabled cabin oxygen masks, along with all coms,,,, flew to 45K,,, killed the pax,,,, dropped down, landed,, SOMEWHERE,,,, offloaded the bodies,,, (with help of course),,, blasted/removed the logos... added new ones,,,, flew it to a middle eastern country,, and are prepping it with bio/nuke, etc payload,,,, He says,,,, NOOO need for cell blockers, etc,,, climbing to 45K,,, would disable all PAX within 10 mins total,,,, then NO need to worry about anyone trying to contact ANYONE,,, after that,,,, pilots. could do, fly,, wherever they wanted,,,, The pilot is KNOWN to have been very upset about political issues,, Family issues,,,, The fate of the pilots?.... 9mm to the back of the head ... WHY would a muslim faction, do this to a flight from a muslim country?,,,, collateral damage,, the, "greater good",,,, where better to hide, than in plain sight?,,,,,

Hi,

I don't think the pilots would attempt to fly to 45000ft to ensure the passengers are incapacitated. The same effect would be achieved at 35000ft within a short space of time. The maximum operating altitude of the 777 is 43100ft, and assuming a weight of 240 tons then the max altitude would be in the region of 38000ft. Flight above that becomes a challenge as the margin between flying too fast and too slow becomes so small. The amount of available excess thrust available is virtually zero when flying at maximum altitude. It's not a place to be during normal operations.

Significant changes in altitude to me would indicate either control problems, either with the aircraft systems or a fight for control within the flight deck.

As an aside, has there been any mention from the Malaysian authorities on the actual fuel uplift on that particular flight. It seem it may have been airborne for longer than I first thought. It may have uplifted additional fuel for any number of reasons of course.

Going back to the secret word that has been mentioned here that should be used between a pilot and controller. I had a look at some more documentation. The only reference I could find where the pilot would use a specific word is when it's intercepted by a countries military fighter aircraft. The word to be used when communication with the intercepting jet is "hijack"

I therefore think that from this we can assume it's ok to use the same word with an air traffic controller. The actual choice of words however may have to vary depending on the actual situation on a particular day.

Healthy debate is good online. Whether your an expert or not, it's good to hear other peoples views. I for one am stumped to what's happened, but what I can offer is fairly accurate operational information on the aircraft in question.

I cannot remember where I saw it (living in Malaysia), but the Malaysian authorities have been out claiming the aircraft had a normal fuel uplift for the flight to Beijing.

But 1/2 hour extra fuel or a little more added to min fuel would probably still be considered normal, depending on company procedures.

But again flying at 45000 feet or 25000 feet or going up and down a few times would decrease the airborne time and range, compared to optimum flight level for the whole flight.

[tobf16]

Jesus H Christ......I have seen a pit bull with a bloody bone which seemed less aggressive than " gentleman"jim.

And less inclined to make a fool of itself as well. Ok , with the mod's permission, time to put this issue to sleep.

Here, from the national archives of the United States of America Government.

(FAA) Boston Center Interview with Terry Biggio, Deputy of Facility, Boston Center.

This excerpt is from the second page......

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-01153.pdf

"Specifically, Air Traffic Controllers are taught that a hijack would include a covert sign

from the cockpit, either use of the transponder code 7500, which flashes "HIJACK" on

the data block for the flight on the TMU (traffic monitoring unit), or the pilot would have

used covert language (the word "trip" to describe the airplane's course) to signal the

ATC. In simulated hijack exercises the pilot would be in contact with the ATC, and they

would be able to verbally confirm "7500" for a hijack, "7600" for a malfunctioning

transponder, and "7700" for an emergency."

As per the boastful challenge of gentlejim of awarding $ 1000 to be able to prove this,

man up and please send the money to the Father Ray Foundation in Pattaya. And be

sure to send me proof of sending it. The kids will appreciate it.

This information is from 2003, in the national archives of the United States Government,

and thus freely available in the public domain. So I suspect the password has been changed

by now...... To the mods, I apologize, just wanted to clear things up. Was getting tired

of the bile spewing out from gentlemanjim. And as I indicated earlier, this information is

relevant as it indicates that this was not a forced hijacking...This will be my final post on this subject.

As A professional/ commercial pilot since 1973 I can only second all of the above, and it is not only for US pilots, so let this issue rest for now.

[JoeLing]

Most puzzling at all. Why is it not, as usual in such cases, an international team that leads and

coordinates the investigations? Why does Malaysia insists on doing it their own way? What

is there to hide?

A few days back I read, someone working on an oil rig to the east of Vietnam saw a fire in the sky.

At the same time, china recorded some seismic activities in the same area but I have not read

anything in the press saying they searched that area. Looking at the recent pictures with the

possible radius of the last ping but back to the east, that would just about be where that oil-rig

worker saw something.

An other theory, looking at the last position of civilian contact with the plane and the last possible

position by the army would suggest the plane would be heading to Langkawi as "Goodfellow"

suggests but if one extends that line, compares the distance from the initial loss of contact to

Bejing (≈ 2400 Miles) and measures that along that extended line, one would just about find

Diego Garcia (≈ 2375 Miles) as some Russians suggested.

As for the motive, I don't believe it's just the usual hijacking as there would be either demands

or someone would want to take credit for his achievement. Because of the altitude of 45'000 ft

the plane went up to, I believe the people on board were of no interest, passed away silently,

maybe just "collateral damage"?

Some already suggested, the plane could be repainted, re-coded and used for an other 9/11

and blame could be put in to some one else's back yard in order to justify some kind of action

against some "unfriendly nations". Somehow Iran, North Korea, even Russia springs in mind?

Maybe checking the stock market could give some clues of where that target could be and

who masterminded "with surgical precision" this whole story.

Now what's about the discrepancies? Malaysian Airways and the Malaysian Government kept

releasing contradictory statements about passengers who booked that flight, about passengers

who checked in and about the passengers on the plane? How comes?

Malaysia's government instantly denied the report that army radar picked up something that could

have been MH370 (they didn't say there might have been something but needs further examination,

they clearly said they did NOT see anything unusual) only to confirm later that one of their radars

did pick up something. Same with Thailand, first they didn't see anything on their radar, now they did.

("Either you're with us or you're against us" springs in mind)

In my opinion, the target was not the people and not necessarily the plane but what about the cargo?

There has been no information at all about the cargo manifest.The plane could have been ditched

anywhere but most likely, somewhere at sea far away from praying radar. I'm pretty sure, a skilled pilot

could ditch the plane safely somewhere on water as the pilot did on the Hudson river and then what

ever cargo was on board. The plane could be sunk without traces after the cargo was removed.

Well, suppose WikiLeaks will inform us in due time.

The cargo angle is of huge interest and it would be good to see an accurate inventory. The only issue is that if the cargo were so sensitive to be so valuable or perhaps so dangerous then transport in a purpose designed escorted aircraft would have been more appropriate/likely, As regards ditching an aircraft the size of the t7, it is possible but would require immense skill, in that very few large hull aircraft have been landed on water and stayed in one piece. That said very few have landed on water (any?) in a controlled manner with intent so success would be much more likely of course.

The search area is now just so immense it is almost impossible. Only a chance encounter or debris being washed up on a beach with an informed population is going to help solve this, other than information as yet undisclosed.

According to my research, ditching a plane can be done successfully and pilots do train for it, it has been done (more or less successfully) at least 10 to 15 times in the past 20 to 25 years. What hasn't been done yet, is a successful water landing at night. Suppose there's a reason for the safety announcement: "In the unlikely event of a water landing .....". Maybe an other reason there are swim vests under your seat and not parachutes.

As for the cargo, not everyone has the means to use special forces to transport their "goods". Maybe less suspicions if some "delicate goods" are transported by civilian means?

I strongly believe it's about the cargo. No cargo manifest and the one they eventually produce, could be made afterwards. Probably secret technology of huge importance to someone with enough resources to hijack the plane, intimidate sovereign nations and instigate a huge search effort without results.

Now I recon there aren't that many people or nations who could do something like that but those I do have in mind have shown in the past, how to manipulate world attention and opinion.

[khunPer]

This guy may have a resonable theory on the mystery:

»Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?« (Edit: as radar shadow from Andeman Sea to ???)

http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

Keith Ledgerwood’s theory posted in above link does make some sense, using another B777 as radar shadow en-route to Europe (see the map plotting in the Blog).

The southbound route to nowhere does not make sense, whilst a northbound route do make sense for hi-jacking or whatever, passing countries like Iran, or as Keith Ledgerwood says: »There are several locations along the flight path of SIA68 where it could have easily broken contact and flown and landed in Xingjian province, Kyrgyzstan, or Turkmenistan. Each of these final locations would match up almost perfectly with the 7.5 hours of total flight time and trailing SIA68. In addition, these locations are all possibilities that are on the “ARC” and fit with the data provided by Inmarsat from the SATCOM’s last known ping at 01:11UTC.«

There were 2 Iranians onboard on false passports stolen in Phuket. Did they use a cover-up with the story of seeking asylum, one heading for Copenhagen intending to seeks asylum in Malmo, Sweden; the other heading for asylum somewhere else in Europe (cannot by hearth remember exactly where)?

Were the cockpit crew and the aircraft engineer part of it – or did somebody else get into the cockpit during the first part of the flight?

In the beginning the news media talked about 5 passengers who did not board the flight and their luggage were removed, but we never heard anything more about this, which is little mysterious.

Do any of the passengers – or cargo – on MD370 have any interest for third party; like the mentioning of the group of IT-specialist and others, and when did they book or plan the flight?

Do any state, country or group in these potential landing places have any interest in hijacking a B777 and the load, passengers and/or cargo?

IMO there are many good reasons for the “radar-shadow” theory…

(Edit: typo)

Edited March 18, 2014 by khunPer

[englishoak]

Post #2114 gave this link....

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

and I went to see what the man says and read the replies. For those

who feel the link is outta date you must read the entire post and it is

quite long indeed with the last reply at 1019PM today to Mr. Goodfellows

last statement posted at 737PM today...as I pass this info here.

What I found interesting, not only Goodfellow's logic, but also this

link to a post from a Maldives newspaper...

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

I must admit that if one extrapolates Goodfellows hypothesis and

what the Maldives paper states then the SAR mission ain't gonna

find squat where they're looking at presently.

Plus I reckon this hypothesis is as good as any that has previously

been undertaken in the SAR scenario. Unless of course, somebody

in a certain government knows better. To which I will be asking this

question at tomorrows presser.

Only one thing about that second link and the Maldives sighting. The US base at Diego Garcia is highly active and would or should have picked it up on radar and flagged it as a possible threat.

The US military covers the whole area as it is vital to its shipping and air lanes. If an aircraft was in that area then alarm bells should have gone off at the base surely.

Why is there no search going on along the last recorded flight path of which the Maldives is on a direct path to ?

During the same time period that the initial turn was made by MH370 apparently all of the Spratly Island mobile phone communications operated by China Mobile were down. Im not sure if that would be the tower link but this could be a reason for no communications from passengers phones or texts.

Lithium batteries are one possible cargo that could have gone pop and started a fire a de pressurization or breach as it went through the skin would have compounded problems.

We will have to see as things pan out but whatever happened it has left a lot of questions.

[MJP]

Have they found this aeroplane yet?

[Richard W]

Quote:

"The unknown aircraft's signal was sending out intermittently, on and off, and on and off," the spokesman said. The Thai military lost the unknown aircraft's signal because of the limits of its military radar, he said.'

That sounds a lot more like an equipment failure than someone deliberately turning off the transponder.

That could simply be fluctuations in the aircraft's echoing area presented to the radar. If the aircraft's attitude is just right it will have an echoing area of 10,000m², whereas from most directions the echoing area is about 20m². (The areas come from scale model results published on the Web, and there may be some scaling effects I have missed.)

I wonder if anyone will explain the Thai of the statement on, say, our Thai Language forum.

[3NUMBAS]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/missing-malaysia-plane-never-found-182603607--finance.html#gyZdhX

others have never been found so why not this plane as well ^

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[EyesWideOpen]

This guy may have a resonable theory on the mystery:

»Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?« (Edit: as radar shadow from Andeman Sea to ???)

http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

Keith Ledgerwood’s theory posted in above link does make some sense, using another B777 as radar shadow en-route to Europe (see the map plotting in the Blog).

The southbound route to nowhere does not make sense, whilst a northbound route do make sense for hi-jacking or whatever, passing countries like Iran, or as Keith Ledgerwood says: »There are several locations along the flight path of SIA68 where it could have easily broken contact and flown and landed in Xingjian province, Kyrgyzstan, or Turkmenistan. Each of these final locations would match up almost perfectly with the 7.5 hours of total flight time and trailing SIA68. In addition, these locations are all possibilities that are on the “ARC” and fit with the data provided by Inmarsat from the SATCOM’s last known ping at 01:11UTC.«

There were 2 Iranians onboard on false passports stolen in Phuket. Did they use a cover-up with the story of seeking asylum, one heading for Copenhagen intending to seeks asylum in Malmo, Sweden; the other heading for asylum somewhere else in Europe (cannot by hearth remember exactly where)?

Were the cockpit crew and the aircraft engineer part of it – or did somebody else get into the cockpit during the first part of the flight?

In the beginning the news media talked about 5 passengers who did not board the flight and their luggage were removed, but we never heard anything more about this, which is little mysterious.

Do any of the passengers – or cargo – on MD370 have any interest for third party; like the mentioning of the group of IT-specialist and others, and when did they book or plan the flight?

Do any state, country or group in these potential landing places have any interest in hijacking a B777 and the load, passengers and/or cargo?

IMO there are many good reasons for the “radar-shadow” theory…

(Edit: typo)

I agree, I think this is a brilliant theory. It would certainly explain how the plane was able to evade

radar. Wonder if anyone knows how physically close two planes would have to be to show up as one

radar blip.The Maldives sighting puts a bit of a hole into this theory, but that one seems a bit weak. A few islanders saying they saw a low flying plane 11 days ago, with one person saying it was so low

they could see the doors on it. So if shown a photo, I would certainly think they could also identify the livery of Malaysia Air.......

I also wonder if the pilot is able to turn off oxygen for the passengers and kill them. Whatever plan the captain has, dealing with a couple hundred really angry passengers would

have to make it a lot harder......I suspect the airline manufacturers are following this story closely,

with the concept of how to protect the plane against a rogue captain.

The five missing passengers story was later retracted by Malaysian Air, and their position now

is that everyone boarded.

Edited March 19, 2014 by EyesWideOpen