How to increase Visa fees

[pitrevie]

A friend of mine applied for an appointment to the Spanish Embassy in Bangkok on the 6th March for a visa

only to be told that all visa appointments for the month of March were full.

However he could get a VIP appointment for an extra 3000 baht.

Well can I book an appointment for April was the next question, answer, no those appointments are not yet open.

So if you want an appointment at the Spanish Embassy for a visa then book early whatever that means.

[Jay Sata]

Speaking from experience this is typical Spanish practices at work.

Having said that Thailand has recently made it harder to get a visa in the UK by moving all the consulate work to London.

If you need the visa in a hurry you'll have to pay and trying to complain to the Spanish government will get you nowhere.

[theoldgit]

Speaking from experience this is typical Spanish practices at work.

Having said that Thailand has recently made it harder to get a visa in the UK by moving all the consulate work to London.

If you need the visa in a hurry you'll have to pay and trying to complain to the Spanish government will get you nowhere.

What has consulate work go to do with applying for a visa?

UK Consulate work is still very much carried out in Thailand, as is the visa application and decision making process.

[theoldgit]

@pitrevie

What sort of visa is your friend applying for?

For a short term visa you can apply at VFS and no appointment is necessary, though you do have to pay their 874 Baht "service fee" http://www.vfsglobal.com/spain/thailand/

If your friend is not applying for a short term visa, or wishes to exercise the right to apply directly to the Spanish Embassy, then they may be trying to put him off, albeit they're flying in the face of Schengen Rules by doing so.

[Jay Sata]

Speaking from experience this is typical Spanish practices at work.

Having said that Thailand has recently made it harder to get a visa in the UK by moving all the consulate work to London.

If you need the visa in a hurry you'll have to pay and trying to complain to the Spanish government will get you nowhere.

What has consulate work go to do with applying for a visa?

UK Consulate work is still very much carried out in Thailand, as is the visa application and decision making process.

I was referring to the recent downgrading of all the Thai consulates in the UK and the funneling of all applications via London. A retrograde step which can only lead to delays and backlogs.

[theoldgit]

Sorry, I understand now, I thought your post may have had something to do with the original question.

[ubonjoe]

Speaking from experience this is typical Spanish practices at work.

Having said that Thailand has recently made it harder to get a visa in the UK by moving all the consulate work to London.

If you need the visa in a hurry you'll have to pay and trying to complain to the Spanish government will get you nowhere.

What has consulate work go to do with applying for a visa?

UK Consulate work is still very much carried out in Thailand, as is the visa application and decision making process.

I was referring to the recent downgrading of all the Thai consulates in the UK and the funneling of all applications via London. A retrograde step which can only lead to delays and backlogs.

That is not correct. Only multiple entry non immigrant visas have to be approved at the embassy. They are still issued at the consulates after approval.

Single entry non immigrant and tourist visas are still done entirely at the consulates.

[pitrevie]

@pitrevie

What sort of visa is your friend applying for?

For a short term visa you can apply at VFS and no appointment is necessary, though you do have to pay their 874 Baht "service fee" http://www.vfsglobal.com/spain/thailand/

If your friend is not applying for a short term visa, or wishes to exercise the right to apply directly to the Spanish Embassy, then they may be trying to put him off, albeit they're flying in the face of Schengen Rules by doing so.

He is applying for a visa to visit his company's HQ in Spain and his visit will be less than one week. However later the same year he is also taking a European holiday so I advised him that it might be easier to apply for a multiple entry since his next visit will be Holland and Germany.

[alyx]

If it is a first visit to Schengen then a visa for the length of stay should be applied for ( asking for a ten day or fortnight stay would be better for two reasons: in case he misses the flight back and because some countries - e.g Italy - would grant the visa for the number of days asked. Not sure about Spain )

Being granted a multiple might also prove difficult depending on how "later in the year" the second trip is planned ( a month or two would, maybe, justify the demand ) and how long he plans to stay in either countries, in which case the "longest length of stay" would apply.

In any case, a documented plan of the intended trips would have to support his demand.

Edited March 9, 2014 by alyx

[alyx]

I might add that I had never heard of such a thing as paying for jumping the queue ( it is illegal ) at least regarding the Schengen area

Not to mention that the visa sections are supposed to consider " emergency cases" but maybe your friend doesn't fit that category

[pitrevie]

If it is a first visit to Schengen then a visa for the length of stay should be applied for ( asking for a ten day or fortnight stay would be better for two reasons: in case he misses the flight back and because some countries - e.g Italy - would grant the visa for the number of days asked. Not sure about Spain )

Being granted a multiple might also prove difficult depending on how "later in the year" the second trip is planned ( a month or two would, maybe, justify the demand ) and how long he plans to stay in either countries, in which case the "longest length of stay" would apply.

In any case, a documented plan of the intended trips would have to support his demand.

No problem with supplying the correct documents to support his first visit which is in fact will be his second visit to Spain for the purpose of visiting his company HQ. Also several visits to other Schengen countries in the past and the UK and USA all with no problems. This visit to Spain will take place at the end of April and in August he will then begin his holiday to Holland, Germany and Hungary over a period of two weeks, the longest time being in Germany and one of the Schengen countries he has visited on at least three other occasions. The only reason for applying for a multiple entry Schengen visa would be to save applying a second time for the August visit. The supporting documents for the second visit to a Schengen area again there is no problem with that. In fact a glance at his passports would show a record of visits to various countries without any problem regarding overstay.

[Donutz]

A friend of mine applied for an appointment to the Spanish Embassy in Bangkok on the 6th March for a visa

only to be told that all visa appointments for the month of March were full.

However he could get a VIP appointment for an extra 3000 baht.

Well can I book an appointment for April was the next question, answer, no those appointments are not yet open.

So if you want an appointment at the Spanish Embassy for a visa then book early whatever that means.

<snip>, the Spanish embassy shouldn't force people to go to VFS and people should also be able to apply within 2 weeks (and get a decision in 2 weeks, though this can be extended if need be):

- If applying for a Schengen visum you have the right of a direct appointment reservation and application at the embassy or consulat, going through VFS or TSL is (should be) enitely optional and a genuine choice.

- The embassy needs to offer an appoinment within 2 weeks of the request for an application.

See the Schengen Visa Code, hich all embassies etc. should abide , sadly not all of them do (do complain to the embassy -aftterwards- , the EU Home Affairs commission, SOLVIT, the Ministery of Foreign Affair of the relevant embassy etc.):

Application

Article 9

Practical modalities for lodging an application

1. Applications shall be lodged no more than three months before the start of the intended visit. Holders of a multiple-entry visa may lodge the application before the expiry of the visa valid for a period of at least six months.

2. Applicants may be required to obtain an appointment for the lodging of an application. The appointment shall, as a rule, take place within a period of two weeks from the date when the appointment was requested.

(...)

Article 17

Service fee

1. An additional service fee may be charged by an external service provider referred to in Article 43. The service fee shall be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider while performing one or more of the tasks referred to in Article 43(6).

2. The service fee shall be specified in the legal instrument referred to in Article 43(2).

3. Within the framework of local Schengen cooperation, Member States shall ensure that the service fee charged to an applicant duly reflects the services offered by the external service provider and is adapted to local circumstances. Furthermore, they shall aim to harmonise the service fee applied.

4. The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set out in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible reductions in or exemptions from the visa fee as provided for in Article 16(2), (4), (5) and (6).

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at its/their consulates.

Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:243:0001:01:EN:HTML

And the Visa Handbook:

4.3. The service fee

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine choice between these two possibilities.

EN 22 EN

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).

Source: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Edit: informing the EU delegation ("EU embassy") in Thailand about Schengen embassies neglecting the rules may also help (it did for me, though I did expect that they would direct me to an other authority, these EU eepresenatives DO have connections with the embassies):

http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/index_en.htm

Edited March 10, 2014 by theoldgit
Profanity removed

[pitrevie]

A friend of mine applied for an appointment to the Spanish Embassy in Bangkok on the 6th March for a visa

only to be told that all visa appointments for the month of March were full.

However he could get a VIP appointment for an extra 3000 baht.

Well can I book an appointment for April was the next question, answer, no those appointments are not yet open.

So if you want an appointment at the Spanish Embassy for a visa then book early whatever that means.

<snip>, the Spanish embassy shouldn't force people to go to VFS and people should also be able to apply within 2 weeks (and get a decision in 2 weeks, though this can be extended if need be):

- If applying for a Schengen visum you have the right of a direct appointment reservation and application at the embassy or consulat, going through VFS or TSL is (should be) enitely optional and a genuine choice.

- The embassy needs to offer an appoinment within 2 weeks of the request for an application.

See the Schengen Visa Code, hich all embassies etc. should abide , sadly not all of them do (do complain to the embassy -aftterwards- , the EU Home Affairs commission, SOLVIT, the Ministery of Foreign Affair of the relevant embassy etc.):

Application

Article 9

Practical modalities for lodging an application

1. Applications shall be lodged no more than three months before the start of the intended visit. Holders of a multiple-entry visa may lodge the application before the expiry of the visa valid for a period of at least six months.

2. Applicants may be required to obtain an appointment for the lodging of an application. The appointment shall, as a rule, take place within a period of two weeks from the date when the appointment was requested.

(...)

Article 17

Service fee

1. An additional service fee may be charged by an external service provider referred to in Article 43. The service fee shall be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider while performing one or more of the tasks referred to in Article 43(6).

2. The service fee shall be specified in the legal instrument referred to in Article 43(2).

3. Within the framework of local Schengen cooperation, Member States shall ensure that the service fee charged to an applicant duly reflects the services offered by the external service provider and is adapted to local circumstances. Furthermore, they shall aim to harmonise the service fee applied.

4. The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set out in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible reductions in or exemptions from the visa fee as provided for in Article 16(2), (4), (5) and (6).

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at its/their consulates.

Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:243:0001:01:EN:HTML

And the Visa Handbook:

4.3. The service fee

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine choice between these two possibilities.

EN 22 EN

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).

Source: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Edit: informing the EU delegation ("EU embassy") in Thailand about Schengen embassies neglecting the rules may also help (it did for me, though I did expect that they would direct me to an other authority, these EU eepresenatives DO have connections with the embassies):

http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/index_en.htm

Thank you for that very comprehensive reply. I shall pass that on but knowing my friend I think the answer will be mai pen rai which is why things will never change.

[Donutz]

You''re welcome and very right: if people would stand up and complain (afterwards incase they fear a negative influence for their current visa application) with the embassy, Ministry of Foreirgn Affairs, EU (sOLVIT, Home Affairs commission, EU representatives abroad, ...) etc. things might change.

That's why I contact the EU representatives mission ("EU embassy" if you like) a month or so ago. They said they were not aware and would take this up with the various Schengen embassies. The Dutch did update their website, the Belgians didn't, the Austrians etc. have not (yet??), the French apparantly also direct peopel to VFS dispite the French website saying you can apply directly, the Spanish website is not working properly and they too direct people to VFS. Some other Schengen embassies in Thailand (and many other countries) are misinforming people, not informing, or not informing them properly about their rights. Most common "errors" are:

- No mention of the " you should get an appointment within 2 weeks of your request" (even if it's high season, it's the embassies problem to have enough slots).

- Right of direct application despite more and more Schengen embassies outsourcing parts of the application process.

- Visa fee waivers and fast & easy visa issue (for spouses: a by Thai issued and by Thai MoFA. certified marriage certificate) for those that can use their " freedom of movement rights" .

I do hope that more and more people raise these issues with various authorities so that they atleast inform people properly, giving applicants a fair option which route they wish to take (be aware of your rights and abligations, then decide which route is the most convienant for you).