Questions over crackdown on Phuket dive industry as foreigners arrested over permits

[webfact]

Questions over crackdown on Phuket dive industry as foreigners arrested over permits
Wiparatana Nathalang


Foreign dive operators and their foreign staff now step onto Chalong Pier with some trepidation. Photo Google

PHUKET: -- Mystery surrounds a “crackdown” – or more probably shakedown – on foreigners by supposed police officers on Chalong Pier.

The officers, in plain clothes, have been arresting any foreigner found running or working for a dive company and threatening them with charges of contravening the terms of their work permits.

The owner of one dive company, speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Phuket News this week, “They saw me on the pier directing my staff and demanded to see my work permit. When I showed it to them they said that my work permit allowed me to work only in the office, and not at the pier.

“I checked later with my accountancy firm who organised the work permit and they said this was definitely not true.”

They took him to an upstairs office at Chalong Police Station, “behind the cells”, where he was told he was facing a night in jail and then an appearance in court for working illegally.

The alternative, the officers explained, was for him to pay a fee of B30,000, and another B3,000 a month to ensure the exercise is not repeated. He paid.

“Since then I have had no trouble. There’s one officer called Prasit who lets his colleagues know that I am protected.”

Some dive companies have not been touched – yet – but all are finding it embarrassing having to tell clients, “No! Don’t touch that equipment – you don’t have a work permit.” Clients are also wondering about the legitimacy of the dive companies when they see a manager or dive instructor being escorted away by police.

One dive operator estimates that the police are snagging as many as 30 people from the dive industry every day.

The crackdown, which takes place almost daily, targets dive company staff and bosses as they see divers off from the pier and again when they arrive back there.

But police officers in Chalong professed to be mystified about who the plainclothes cops are.

Pol Lt Chonlada Chokdeesrichan, who was duty officer over the past few days between 8 am and 8 pm – during which both shakedowns occur – insisted she knew anything about the allegations.

The Phuket News also contacted Pol Col Jittapab Dejittharasorn, the Chalong Superintendent. He said, “I didn’t order anyone to do this. I have not received any report about this matter. I suggest that you call the Marine Police and the Tourist Police.”

The Phuket News called Marine Police, who also insisted they knew nothing about the action. We also called the Tourist Police and received the same response.

There was also a suggestion that the officer named by dive industry people as Prasit works at Phuket Town Police Station. But a non-commissioned officer who gave his name only as Thanwa said, “I have one man named Prasit here, but he is the driver for our Deputy Superintendent Assistant. I don’t think he could be the one.”

Pol Cpl Monthip Thepkaew, who works at Investigation Department said, “In order to catch this bad person, the accused person needs to go to Chalong Police Station to file a complaint. And you need evidence to accuse someone.”

The action by the police is reminiscent of a time 14 years ago when the then-superintendent of Tourist Police in Phuket, Lt Col Chak Onnim, arrested a slew of dive instructors on allegations that they were acting illegally as tour guides.

Those who elected not to go into the cells and then into the court system to fight the charge reported paying B100,000 for their freedom.

After an outcry by the dive industry Col Chak was transferred – probably to his delight – to a police station in Bangkok whose territory includes Khao San Rd.

The dive company boss who spoke with The Phuket News saw little chance of joint action this time, however, and seems to regard the monthly impost as just another irritating cost of doing business. It’s the high season, he said, and “I really don’t have time for this now.”

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/questions-over-crackdown-on-phuket-dive-industry-as-foreigners-arrested-over-permits-45099.php

-- Phuket News 2014-03-11

[FritsSikkink]

If you have a proper work permit then you shouldn't pay anything. If you don't have a work permit then som nam na.

[stevenl]

If you have a proper work permit then you shouldn't pay anything. If you don't have a work permit then som nam na.

People getting 'caught' have workpermits. Problem is, the officers are saying: your company address is aaa, you're working here on the diveboat at bbb, so your workpermit is not valid, or you're working here at the swimming pool, or kata beach, so not at the company address so the workpermit is not valid.

While the police is correct in that quite a few people are doing things they are officially not allowed to do, quite often minor but sometimes not minor, it would be better if they were to go after the illegal companies and individuals. However that takes much more time and effort, they simply go for the easy money and don't really care about anything else.

Somebody who calls himself 'owner of a divecompany' has really not understood what is happening. Presuming he is a foreigner that is.

Some inaccuracies in the story, but in general it is correct BTW.

Edited March 11, 2014 by stevenl

[Thai at Heart]

What a joke of an employment law...

[iforget]

Inaccuracies? Do tell. Would like to correct them.

[Soupdragon]

So how does it work then, how can you train someone to dive in an office, would you have to put the address down as the Andaman Sea ?

[rucus7]

The last good dive I had in Phuket was in 1998

[mrtoad]

So how does it work then, how can you train someone to dive in an office, would you have to put the address down as the Andaman Sea ?

Maybe, bloody idiotic though how these disgusting officials can twist the law to get a shakedown

[NomadJoe]

The Phuket News called Marine Police, who also insisted they knew nothing about the action. We also called the Tourist Police and received the same response.

That is such horseshit. Both the marine police in uniform with the same marked vehicle they always bring and the tourist police in a marked pick-up truck, 3 in plain clothes with ID's around their necks, and one with a black tourist police polo shirt, were at the pier yesterday. Our staff was checked both on the way out by the marine police and when we returned by the tourist police. The tourist police were photographing anyone carrying equipment. One of our customers was momentarily detained by the tourist police for carrying boxes. How can both of these departments have rogue officers working off the reservation? This is not the first time this has happened. I think it's time to start photographing the officers while they photograph us!

13 years here dealing with this, this is what I have found to be the best approach:

These guys go after low hanging fruit. If you appear like you know what is up and you are legal, they will quickly move on to someone else. Therefore, always keep a copy of your work permit and passport and present this first. This often works. If they ask for the real thing, show it but avoid letting them take it if you can. Be polite but firm. "You can see it but you cannot touch it. I am legal. You have now checked me. I have to get back to work. If you have any other questions contact my office/accountant/lawyer." Keep your company's business card, or if you created your own company, keep your accountants/lawyers card with you. Then walk away. They have to have legal cause to detain you. Obviously if they are insistent, don't resist.

Edited March 11, 2014 by NomadJoe

[webfact]

Tourist Police confirm round up of Phuket dive instructors
Phuket Gazette


Dive instructors were being picked up as they disembarked from their ships. Photo: Gazette file

PHUKET: -- Tourist Police joined forces with the Chalong Police yesterday afternoon and took into custody more than 20 dive instructors as they disembarked from their respective dive tour boats at Chalong Pier.

“I don’t think the Chalong Police pressed charges. To my knowledge, the dive shop staffers were taken to Chalong Police Station to have their work permits checked,” Urumporn Koondejsumrit of the Phuket Tourist Police told the Phuket Gazette.

“I assume they all had work permits, which is why none of them were charged.”

However, the Chalong Police duty officer at the station at the time of the raid told the Gazette today that he knew nothing about the arrests.

“I was on duty yesterday evening, but I don’t know anything about the arrests,” Capt Thada Sodarak said.

“I saw some foreigners walking around outside, but I don’t know what it was about. I would have been informed if charges were brought against any of them.”

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2014/Tourist-Police-confirm-round-up-of-Phuket-dive-instructors-27814.html


-- Phuket Gazette 2014-03-12

[laurentbkk]

I wonder when this witches hunt will stop ....

[virtualtraveller]

Phuket shooting itself in the foot again. Between the taxi blockade, the jet ski scam and seeing your dive instructor being arrested, one wonders why tourists ever come back. Wondering what part of 'idiotic suicide mission' the authorities don't understand when these issues are repeatedly brought to their attention.

[steelepulse]

Amazing how nobody seems to know anything from the various police departments. I agree with NomadJoe to take photos of all of these cops hassling people.

[klauskunkel]

Pol Cpl Monthip Thepkaew, who works at Investigation Department said, “In order to catch this bad person, the accused person needs to go to Chalong Police Station to file a complaint. And you need evidence to accuse someone.”

Pol Cpl??? probably Pol Col..., anyway

You need evidence to accuse someone? Not if you are the police.

[NomadJoe]

I need to make one correction. It was immigration that was at the pier that morning, not marine police. Their trucks are similar and uniforms identical. But definitely tourist police in the afternoon. I did not see any regular police there but they could have been with the tourist police in plain clothes. All 4 guys I saw got out of the marked tourist police truck.

[MikeENZ]

Another example of "Thainess" and cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Places that rely on the dive industry (such as Koh Tao) are going to suffer if this becomes widespread. The visa rules are unworkable for this industry (where the place of work is an office) and its safety critical to have a native language speaker teaching things that are effectively life or death information (I've worked with compressed gasses for years, and if you get it wrong - its boom!).

That is unless all these Thai dive instructors are learning to speak swedish, french, german, spanish, russian, korean, chinese, japanese etc...

[BudRight]

Show me thousands of unemployed English speaking Thai dive masters or stay the <deleted> off my boat Somchai.

[onni4me]

Another reason why I stay out of Phuket. I find their attitudes appalling. Visited earlier few times but IMHO the worst rip off place in Thailand. Sceneries are beautiful but don't do much when you are constantly hassled and paying for overpriced lousy service.

It gets worse when you actually speak Thai...

[Time Traveller]

Basically it's the Thai laws which are decades (possibly 50 years) behind modern business practices. Don't expect this to change anytime soon and unfortunately, the country will never be are the forefront of world innovation. Except maybe in the field of propeller boats pushing flood water down rivers!

[oldsailor35]

These people are utterly greedy criminal idiots. These practices just cannot go on forever, its known as "Killing the goose that lays the golden egg" Very soon the diving world will circulate this information and divers from all over the world will just move to Malaysia and then where will Phuket be. Why oh why are Thais such greedy corrupt fools. The women are usually hard workers, but OMG the men of Thailand, lazy, corrupt, dishonest, conniving, you name it, they are up there amongst the worlds worst.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Another reason why I stay out of Phuket. I find their attitudes appalling. Visited earlier few times but IMHO the worst rip off place in Thailand. Sceneries are beautiful but don't do much when you are constantly hassled and paying for overpriced lousy service.

It gets worse when you actually speak Thai...

Sceneries are beautiful.

You haven't been here for a while have you.

[HooHaa]

Another example of "Thainess" and cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Places that rely on the dive industry (such as Koh Tao) are going to suffer if this becomes widespread. The visa rules are unworkable for this industry (where the place of work is an office) and its safety critical to have a native language speaker teaching things that are effectively life or death information (I've worked with compressed gasses for years, and if you get it wrong - its boom!).

That is unless all these Thai dive instructors are learning to speak swedish, french, german, spanish, russian, korean, chinese, japanese etc...

it will never happen on koh tao. the people making the real money would not allow it to.

[keestha]

Tourist police? Can anybody explain me what exactly the responsibilities of the tourist police force are? Always assumed it was their task to assist tourists, not to apprehend foreign nationals violating labor or immigration laws, or am I wrong?

[animatic]

Obvious shakedown by members of the BIB.

[ingvar]

If you have a work permit to work at a dive shop, that is where you have to be when working and nowhere else.

For example you as a foreigner cannot wash your car or cut the grass in your garden, if you do these tasks you illegally are taking away a job opportunity from a Thai (Burmese) worker.

[Arkady]

Technically a work permit only permits the holder to work at the address(es) listed in the work permit. Any other work locations need to be added. This is a simple matter if a company has several branches but to work on a pier is probably impractical, as the employer needs to have confirmation in writing that the owner of that property has leased the space to the employer.

This is an example of the ridiculous rigidity of Thai bureaucracy. They like to keep things rigid, so that they can waive overly burdensome regulations at their discretion but still have the right to enforce them when they want to crack down on some one or shake them down for a bribe. Of course, many workers need to work at multiple locations, such as clients' offices, hotel conference rooms, work sites etc and it is impractical to list all of these in a WP. Some may only be required for one meeting. Wealthy Thais enjoy the right to have foreign enemies arrested for working temporarily in the wrong location and no one is going to want to take away this important privilege. It has happened to foreign accountants working on insolvency cases. Sometimes the foreign worker gets arrested due to some one having a grudge against his Thai employer that he knows nothing about.

In the Phuket case, the police enforcing this absurd regulation seem to be either complete fraudsters or moonlighting police. There are a lot of extortion rackets operated there by well connected criminals.

[ingvar]

The job of tourist police is to harass tourists, that's why they are named "Tourist" police.

[PattayaPhom]

The dive business in Phuket is seedier than timeshare and real estate and as lifes are at risk much more dangerous. About time they got the shakedown.

[rct99q]

Phuket shooting itself in the foot again. Between the taxi blockade, the jet ski scam and seeing your dive instructor being arrested, one wonders why tourists ever come back. Wondering what part of 'idiotic suicide mission' the authorities don't understand when these issues are repeatedly brought to their attention.

"one wonders why tourists ever come back".....you do not have to wonder "why"...they just do. As a result things will never change. There are believed to be approx 1,000,000,000 tourists in the world each year. If Thailand attracts 25,000,000 of those tourists each year...how many years will it take for the total number of tourists each year to visit Thailand?

No matter what the incidents are, the rip offs, scams, the working issues, safety issues....there will always be an endless supply of tourists wanting to visit Thailand, Mexico, Caribbean, parts of Africa etc...

I would suspect nearly every Trade and Development Ministry of most Tourist destinations know this. It would appear that some Thai authorities know this as well, so they don't care.

[PattayaPhom]

If you have a work permit to work at a dive shop, that is where you have to be when working and nowhere else.

For example you as a foreigner cannot wash your car or cut the grass in your garden, if you do these tasks you illegally are taking away a job opportunity from a Thai (Burmese) worker.

Cutting grass etc isnt work....