Dangerous minibus driver - what can I do?

[simon43]

This problem is being repeated on a regular basis.

Customers who stay at my hotel in Phuket often have travelled from their holiday hotel on Koh Lanta. They always use the minibus service of the ferry company (Koh Lanta to the mainland), who operate a monopoly on the taxis/minibuses which ply the route from the ferry terminal to Phuket.

Their driver who operates the route from the ferry to the Phuket Airport and hotels in that area is the source of my concern.

This man is - according to my arriving guests - aggressive, rude and drives in a very dangerous manner. Last week, 2 Danish tourists tried to complain about his actions to the 1155 Tourist Police service, but the phone was hung up on them. (I have a copy of their story - they were in fear of their lives).

Today, a family with 2 young children were delivered to my hotel by this same driver. My guests told me that his driving was erratic and dangerous and that he took them to the wrong hotel and told them to 'get out and walk'!!

What can I do to get this driver replaced? If I complian to his employer (I know the company), then I run the risk of personal injury from this guy and being sued for defamation (telling the truth), by his employer.

If I complain to the police then ??????

I am sick and tired of my guests being treated in this manner - it is highly dangerous, very rude, and an insult to most law-abiding Thai people.

Practical advice would be most helpful, but I personally cannot see how I can resolve this situation.

Simon

[MB1]

Well Simon, it seems to me that you must either make a complaint to try and resove the matter or maybe before your customers arrive try and get them an alternative driver/ company rather than the one your customers seem to be using...

If you don't complain then things will maybe stay as it is for you and your customers...

And as an after thought, how about your customers making written complaints and giving them to you and you post them to the company after their departure, enough written complaints may make the company do something about it and your out of the loop...

Edited March 11, 2014 by MB1

[simon43]

..try and get them an alternative driver/ company rather than the one your customers seem to be using

Impossible - the minibuses are sub-contracted by the ferry company - gthere is no alternative - it is a monopoly.

I know the boss of the ferry company, so will have a confidential word with her.

Simon

[falkan]

tea money , police, talking = no more problems, thought you would know this by now..

[NomadJoe]

A difficult one. May be nothing you can do other than complain. I personally don't have a problem making complaints like that. I have complained in writing to visa run death race companies before and received nothing but apologies and a promise to improve things. I have also praised safe drivers to the owners when they deserve it. Who knows if it makes a difference, but I have to try. I think the whole "revenge" factor is played up a bit in Thailand. I would think that your police volunteering would insulate you from repercussions a bit. Either way, you shouldn't feel like you need to check your balls at the airport when you enter Thailand. Then again, with several business ventures here, you have more to lose than me. I do get activisty at times and the only death threats I have received in Thailand were from farangs.

Here is another option. If you ever know ahead of time that a customer may use this service, just mention that if there is a problem they can video tape it and take photos, and try to get the van and drivers ID if it is displayed. This is obviously going to create a negative impression with your guests from the get go, so perhaps you could do this with someone you know, like a good previous guest that "understands" Thailand a bit. Then, if you have some good video or even just photos with a good story from a guest, that can be enough to get reporters to call the company for a statement. That will make a difference. At a minimum the driver loses face and perhaps will think twice before driving like a maniac or kicking your guests out at the wrong hotel. If you need to know who to contact in the media, PM me. I write for one of the papers and (name drop alert) the managing editor of the other is a good friend. PM me if you want help on that end.

I am also wondering if the van used is a private taxi. If it is then it is part of the 1158 complaint line network.

Edited March 11, 2014 by NomadJoe

[bino]

You boast about being a tourist police volunteer who can speak, read and write in Thai, and you are asking for this kind of advice here??

[balo]

TIT what can you do ? Not much I¨m afraid unless you want to get involved with an aggressive driver , Maybe karma will take care of it in the end,

[simon43]

You boast about being a tourist police volunteer who can speak, read and write in Thai, and you are asking for this kind of advice here??

Yes, why not?? Being a foreign TPV carries absolutely no weight, (unless maybe you are a bent TPV).

As an aside, later the same evening, another taxi brought 'angry' customers to my hotel. They had been taken to the wrong hotel by the driver, who had refused to listen to the customer's directions straight from their mobile phone GPS map. After asking other Thais where the hotel was, he brought them to me AND then demanded 300 baht more for HIS mistake in taking them to the other hotel. When I told him (in Thai) that I would not allow my guests to pay for his mistakes, he physically threatened me and said that he didn't care one toss that I worked for the police.....

Ah well, another day in paradise.....

[T_Dog]

The only real solution is to use a private taxi. It is not that much more expensive if there are two or more traveling. That way you can tell the driver directly how fast to drive.

This mini-van topic comes up often and that mode of transportation is indeed very dangerous. Several of us filed complaints with video on one trip we were on years ago down there. Lots of emails with various government agencies transpired but no action against the driver or company was ever taken.

[simon43]

... or kicking your guests out at the wrong hotel.

This is almost a daily event! It is also very common for customers who use the Donsak Pier (Samui) - Phuket minivan service to pay extra for transport direct to the hotel, only to find themselves kicked out on the main #402 road in north Phuket (Highway Police), because the driver then refuses to make the 10-minute diversion to the airport area that the guest has paid for.

Guests who try to argue with the minivan driver, or who try to refuse to leave the van have told me that the drivers become VERY aggressive!

I'd say that negative events like this are more common than a few years ago - happily most taxi drivers still provide a decent service.

Simon

[Briggsy]

1. Use the hierarchy. Who do the drivers answer to? Who is above them in the Phuket food chain?

2. Public shaming. Make videos and post them on Youtube. Avoid reference to yourself and your business. Get a friend overseas to upload them.

Both of these answers could hit the drivers and/or the owners of the monopoly in the wallet. They don't like that.

As someone else said, why are you asking?

[Somtamnication]

Another idea is to get the local village head to be involved. Let him do the negotiation with the ferry owner. It is a feudal system, you know.

[8OA8]

Use the Traffy Besafe app

[jacko45k]

How about complaining to TAT in Bangkok.

[inzman]

Phuket is such a shit hole, why would anybody want to live with daily threats from taxis and no action cops. Not to mention the filth and congested roads,overpriced crap.

[bino]

If you don't know who to talk to in the police ranks with your connection to them and do anything from that direction, try another tack.Hit them in the front where it matters most- in the wallet.

Make postings on TripAdvisor, and tell all of your guests who have been treated poorly to do the same. TripAdvisor is a high ranking website, and USA based where you can say pretty much what you want about them.

A large percentage of travelers use it and read the reviews when planning the trip of a lifetime. If they get enough negative reviews and a bad rating, future customers will steer away from them.

[Pomthai]

ICBM targeting the van on its empty return journey.

Problem solved.

[ronthai]

You should try and get the media involded, which then hopefully gets more attention from good law inforcement (no not a joke, they are not all bad and corrupt).

In the meantime, setup a personal pickup and delivery, assuming you got arrival and departure times from guests.

This may cost extra money, but losing customers also costs money.

Also, I assume other hotels and such also have the same problem. Contact them and do one of the above or both together.

Strength in numbers.

[simon43]

In the meantime, setup a personal pickup and delivery, assuming you got arrival and departure times from guests.

This may cost extra money, but losing customers also costs money.

I can assure you that the above option is a fast route to serious, personal injury for my drivers!! In Phuket, each taxi service (legal or otherwise) have their own patch where they are allowed to pick up from., - they can deliver the passenger to any destination.

The agreed pick-up patch for my hotels is the airport and Nai Yang. The last time one of my drivers tried to pick up a passenger in Patong (on a return journey back to the airport), he was physically attacked by the local taxi drivers. (I have the PG and PW news link somewhere).

There is no alternative to using the ferry minivans, so shaming is really the only option. There is a choice of ferry services to use, so shaming may encourage the ferry company to improve its minivan service, or lose out to the competition.

ICBM targeting the van on its empty return journey.

This option appeals to me very much

Edited March 12, 2014 by simon43

[Guest]

You should try and get the media involded, which then hopefully gets more attention from good law inforcement (no not a joke, they are not all bad and corrupt).

In the meantime, setup a personal pickup and delivery, assuming you got arrival and departure times from guests.

This may cost extra money, but losing customers also costs money.

Also, I assume other hotels and such also have the same problem. Contact them and do one of the above or both together.

Strength in numbers.

I'm thinking the same, organize pickup from Phuket.

If you know some at decent taxi or van drivers in Phuket, make a deal with them. When your incoming customers need a transportation from remote locations, you'll contact the trusted drivers to do the pickup. At the same time you'll pass the phone numbers to both sides.

You'll work just as an person who recommends these selected drivers. If some driver fails to do a proper job, you'll drop him from the recommendation list.

[steven100]

ICBM targeting the van on its empty return journey.

Problem solved.

sorry for my lack of understanding .... what is ICBM ?? tks.

[Benmart]

ICBM targeting the van on its empty return journey.

Problem solved.

sorry for my lack of understanding .... what is ICBM ?? tks.

In this case, i think it may stand for Irrelvant Comment By a Moron.

Actually it stands for InterContinental Ballistic Missile.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Benmart

[simon43]

When your incoming customers need a transportation from remote locations, you'll contact the trusted drivers to do the pickup

Cannot, cannot, cannot!! This is not how the taxi system works in Phuket. No driver will agree to a remote pick up if he is not authorised to pick up in that patch. It is simply too risky for him/his vehicle.

For remote pick ups, the customer has to use a local taxi service. Usually this works ok, but not in the case of the ferry company's minivan to the airport area.

[Rorri]

Simon, I would suggest contacting the governor, he often requests Phuket problems to be sent/phoned to him, but I suspect his actions will be the same as usual...NOTHING, he is as useful as tits on a bull.

[oldsailor35]

These mini van drivers are fast becoming bigger crims than the jet ski scammers in my opinion. It seems that they are a mafia on their own.

[zaZa9]

Some good suggestions above ...

Perhaps have an approach with increasingly negative consequences -

1. Start collecting short letters of complaint with contact addresses NOW. Actively pursue them being written , and angry guests will at least feel you are acting on their complaints and are personally without fault. Its good PR. Also start a petition ( that you may need much later on )

2. Talk to the female 'manager' you know , picking out just ONE bad driver , and saying the rest are fine and she has a great company and its just ONE bad apple etc . Show her 2 or 3 letters. Maybe get them translated and give her 2 or 3 copies of the complaints ( all on about the same driver)

3. Warn her that you are currently dissuading guests from writing bad reports on Agoda Tripadvisor etc , ( thus the letters) but you wont if nothing gets better. Organise that you will report to her if things got better on a certain date , maybe in one months time.

4. If still no improvement , email a couple of letter writers urging them to make internet complaints , then copy them and send to said contact.

5. Still no change ? Highlight and forward internet complaints to Management and bosses of the company ... and so on...

And so on

Edited March 12, 2014 by zaZa9

[bino]

In this case, i think it may stand for Irrelvant Comment By a Moron.

Actually it stands for InterContinental Ballistic Missile.

Indeed - ICBM would quite literally be "overkill" in this situation.

M79 would do the job well enough and is readily available in Thailand.

[iamariva1957]

simon43 my answer to your post is a simple one. Media, Media, Media! Get the media involved. Tell your guest's stories. Have them write them down. Get pictures of the van, its number, its driver even. Then post the lot in the pages of the local paper... not just the English language one either I might add.

Listen, this 'problem' is not confined to the islands. It is everywhere. I loved the "Death Race Visa Run" comment posted in this thread. For it is so true. But Mini-van drivers are by far some of the worst drivers on the Thai roads. They have one mission and only one to complete and that is to make as many runs as possible with the greatest number of people per run. It is simply "Moneee" and the thought of having any that 'drives' them to take such chances on the roads. Of course added to this is their already questionable ability to actually drive and understand that the yellow line is not just a 'suggestion' and on a blind corner it is not a good idea to pass that dam over loaded truck that is in the outside lane.

Someone here said that you should not have to "check your balls at the airport when coming to Thailand". But I also understand completely the threats one can get for complaining or making someone lose face. But as you have business that is centered around taking good care of your guests then their safety must be important to you as well. Allowing them to have a negative experience just getting from the airport, bus station, or ferry to your place puts you and your wallet into jeopardy. So you have to do all you can to protect yourself by protecting your guests who are your source of income.

So get teh story out there. Play it up. Make some noise. Or arrange for your hotel's own car service and do away with the whole matter all together.

[thailandbeachisland]

Simon, I really feel for you, having to deal with all these monkeys is the latest thing I would like to have to do.

[simon43]

Or arrange for your hotel's own car service

See my previous posts. That is not an option in this case. We can only use our hotel car service to pick up in a few designated locations, or to deliver guests to distant locations.

Publicity is a 2-edged sword. Are you aware of defamation laws in Thailand? You can be sued even if you tell the truth..,...

And how do I turn off this s*dding bold text?? Clicking off the 'B' button does nothing......

Edited March 12, 2014 by simon43