Bt2tn bill ruled unconstitutional

[Crushdepth]

Truth hurts.My comments are accurate as I suspect you well know.Having said that there is nothing amiss with the opposition taking the government on with regard to the best method of funding,and to be fair Khun Korn has done some excellent work here.The Constitutional Court ruling is not interested in this and is mainly designed to frustrate democracy; the infrastructure programme is beyond its comprehension.

I'm not sure why you introduce the subject of fascists.Why are they relevant to this subject? But the overall attack on democracy by the CC is beyond dispute.

However the damage has been done and this ruling is a major set back for the very necessary improvement of infrastructure

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...But the overall attack on democracy by the CC is beyond dispute...

Why? Because you say so? Get a grip.

You could argue with the phraseology I use.But what you cannot do is suggest that key parts of the judicial system have not been enlisted to complete the process of ending a democratically elected government especially given the limits now placed on street mobs and military coups.

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PTP have not followed the law or parliamentary rules when it suited them. They have been caught and the courts have ruled against them.

You cannot suggest that every ruling against PTP is part of some judicial conspiracy to help remove them. All hogwash designed to hide the facts i,e, they didn't follow the law and cheated through parliament.

Not every ruling of course but the overall pattern is very clear.

For you and others that might need a refresher course in the basics Time Magazine has a useful article - including the issue of politicised courts.

http://world.time.com/2013/11/28/thailands-democrat-party-is-hilariously-misnamed/

This particular ruling was a sensible one. The government has noone to blame but itself for trying to evade scrutiny where such a massive amount of money is involved.

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[rct99q]

A ruing by the constitutional court in Thailand holds about the same weight as a ruling by Judge Wapner.

[AleG]

Alot misquotes from the TV cant read brigade .It's not"2 billion baht" It's TWO TRILLION baht.One hell of alot of money to borrow.

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Actually it is was over 5 trillion Baht, counting the interest on the loans... assuming that the interest rates would had remained the same.

Too large a sum to be handed on a "trust me" basis, specially when the recipient would be a group of people with a proven track record of corruption.

[robblok]

Amazing. The senate passes something but a court can rescind it.

Isn't this in itself somehow unconstitutional. Might as well submit everything to a court for approval. I think the.spending is maybe unnecessary in scale. But what is the point of parliament and the senate.

agreed it is BIZARRE

don't like a party - ban it

don't like an ELECTED governments economics - rule it unconstitutional

don't like a politician - 5 year ban

probably next:

don't like an election result - overturn it

all 'unbiased' rulings of course

Typical red thinking..

You have to abide by the constitution and you must be incredibly naive (probably because your a red supporter) to think that keeping it out of the books and they don't have to account for it had any other reason then making skimming money easier.

Nobody in their right mind could think this was a good idea, do it transparent then maybe.. but still the high speed train idea is a joke.

Other things, good.. but do it transparrent and make people accountable.. not the corrupt Shin way.

So yes this is a win for all Thais that this is stopped.

[rubl]

you seem to overlook that the Democrat party led coalition government under Abhisit was already working on high-speed train ideas, only to see all scrapped by the new government.

Furthermore you seem to overlook that part of the infrastructure budget seemed to include activities and therefor money normally found in the yearly National Budget. Like the rice scam, just trying to avoid parliamentary scrutiny.

As for the rest, the usual denigrating remarks. BTW although you had the 'unelected elites' you missed out mentioning 'fascists'

Truth hurts.My comments are accurate as I suspect you well know.Having said that there is nothing amiss with the opposition taking the government on with regard to the best method of funding,and to be fair Khun Korn has done some excellent work here.The Constitutional Court ruling is not interested in this and is mainly designed to frustrate democracy; the infrastructure programme is beyond its comprehension.

I'm not sure why you introduce the subject of fascists.Why are they relevant to this subject? But the overall attack on democracy by the CC is beyond dispute.

However the damage has been done and this ruling is a major set back for the very necessary improvement of infrastructure

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

...But the overall attack on democracy by the CC is beyond dispute...

Why? Because you say so? Get a grip.

You could argue with the phraseology I use.But what you cannot do is suggest that key parts of the judicial system have not been enlisted to complete the process of ending a democratically elected government especially given the limits now placed on street mobs and military coups.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

"what you cannot do is suggest that ... have not been enlisted ..." ?

It would seem that it easy enough though to suggest that "... have been enlisted ...". for some that is. In other words, "how dare you to disagree with our learned TV member jayboy". interesting really, puzzling also

[rubl]

"I think water fluoridation is all part of a mind control scheme put on by communists".

Please tell us more about this communist mind control scheme, as I had always naively thought that it was to do with teeth rather than brain.

Now don't be hasty. You might want to watch the 1964 movie "Dr. Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb". Gen. Ripper was right you know

[PepperMe]

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He said Wirat Kalayasiri, the head of the Democrat's legal team, would seek an impeachment against caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for having sponsored an unconstitutional bill.

Unlike the Senate Reform Bill, this time it doesn't matter whether she actually showed up to vote for the bill or not. Since it was financial bill she had to sign it herself. There is more reason for the NACC to indict supporters of this bill than the Senate Reform Bill, which I admit is an iffy case.

And absolutely farcically the judgement comes AFTER its signed into law.

Couldn't they find a way to judge it before?

No. The constitutional court isn't a house of review. That's the Senate. It cannot rule on legislation that hasn't yet been voted on. Imagine the mess if it could!

I disagree. Why couldn't it be that the senate is the house and the only house to submit it for review. Why can't the CC sit as a part of the senate? Why must the CC sit completely outside the remit of the senate?

The senate signed it off also. They are as guilty as any other party. This is why the british system is so neat. The upper house is the final court of review.

Once its passed there. That's it. What would be the problem with making the senate responsible for judging the constitutionality on advice from the cc? I can't see any. It would be a hell of a lot more transparent that anappointed court.

As for prosecuting anyone for this, it is nuts. The obvious defence is, my lawyer told me it wasn't constitutional. To which some smart arse with say. Ignorance is no defence.

To which any half decent lawyer says. I don't have a crystal ball , idiot.

I have noticed that your allegiances have recently changed towards support for the Thaksin regime.... Can't think why you would suddenly seem to come down on the losing side just before it becomes a dead duck and a black period in Thailand's history.

You saying that the senate and constitutional court should be merged is hilarious.

The senate is there to watch the lower house as a checking system or a second layer of democratic security from unscrupulous governments that can easily achieve full control of the lower house.

The constitutional court is totally non political and have one function alone 'to preserve the constitution'.

If any behavior from the two house system is in contravention of the constitution the C-courts step in. Much the same way as non political breeches occur such as secession etc.... The constitutional court has the right to rule on an attempt to breech the constitution.

They MUST be kept separate from the senate. The constitution is both political and non political. It is not there to just watch one thing... The constitution covers everything to keep the country in order.

Also, your comment about charging anyone over this as being nuts is probably the craziest thing you have said.

As a government, you are in a very high position of responsibility and trust. The people depend on you to make sure that you act responsibly on their behalf. Any breech of such a high level of responsibility carries with it serious accountability.

This government not only tried to put through a bill that was potentially disastrous for this country, they also wrote it in such a way that was totally irresponsible. Not only this,but the way it was rammed through the parliamentary system in the most dubious of ways in the dead of night and without a full senate vote not to mention the PTP multiple voting scandal.

They have broken many articles of the constitution and rule of law with an air or 'non-accountability'...

This has come home to roost and they should be prepared to accept one of two shortcomings for their dubious actions and breech of the people's trust.

1. Resign en masse (especially YL for being the actual sponsor of the bill)

2. Or if they refuse, they MUST accept their impeachments.

They have an opportunity to jump before they are pushed.

If neither happens and all accountability is brushed aside then this sets a precedent for the entire future and anyone will be able to do this with impunity citing this case in any future court, and that my friend IS NUTS!!!!!

Edited March 13, 2014 by PepperMe

[timber]

Hmmm.... I guess the PM can't join her brother

[northernjohn]

Many aspects in this 2.2 trillion baht loan are flawed. But the most upsetting part was that the PT government wanted to spend that money without any transparency, without ever disclose how and for what they will spend it and never be held accountable.

In a functioning democracy it is the parliament's duty and right to control how the government is spending the people's money. PT and Yingluck have tried to get rid of these checks and balances and pretty much make the legislative of this country powerless. And they claim to defend democracy without getting a red face!

Another aspect of this flawed project was the high-speed train itself. Not only the connections planned (coincidentally most of it in Isaan and North, little to nothing in the South) but also the claim that this high-speed train will help solve Thailand's transportation problems. The high-speed train, however, was not designed to carry freight and thus not a single truck will disappear from Thailand's roads. Big centers, like Phuket, are not connected... etc.

That plus they offered no studies on the need for the proposed projects.

Just we will spend a lot of money in red shirt country for most of it.