Rice farmer kills himself over debts

[Katipo]

If this is indeed the reason, it is more blood on the hands of the PM, her brother, and their government.

Sorry mate but no you are wrong!!!,

the farmer did NOT sell to the rice pledging scheme, but to an independent miller that cut the buying price far lower than the farmer could afford, This is one of the reasons why the government started the rice pledging scheme, to help the farmers out of poverty by offering a higher price than the rich profiteering of millers holding them to ransom , GEE have you ever heard of price fixing??? Which goes on in the most modern country's and when they get caught they are made to pay large fines and sometimes jail, but here the out stretched Palme's are crossed with cash and everything is just a misunderstanding,,,now remember TIT so it's been going on for years, Now I agree the rice pledging scheme is not a well planed policy and full of corruption, BUT in your claim the PM has blood on her hands, try understanding the facts before throwing around blame, fair enough.

Not wrong, and I didn't throw blame. I was very cautious in my wording "if this is indeed the reason".... so if it's not, it's not.

However... if now unscrupulous rice millers are taking advantage of farmers who are in debt and desperate because of not being paid for past crops under the rice pledging scheme, the PTP must shoulder some of the blame, and must find a way out of this ever deepening hole the farmers find themselves in.

[AleG]

lived in issan for 4 years..not once did the rice sell make a profit...to many costs..all you do is spend out.and get back the same or less than the costs

rice for eating and seeds for next planting...otherwise dont bother growing it for profit

Maenwhile, somehow, Thailand exports 10mn tonnes of the stuff, and a very select few exporters revel in thei billions in Bangkok.

The middle men and exporters are killing this country. Thaksins scheme is a blow out, but the system before was a disgrace too.

Last year the rice exports were around 6.5 million tons, and that coming from the government Department of Dubious Claims; where do you get the 10M figure from? That was pre Rice Scheme (yay for success!)

Edited March 14, 2014 by AleG

[Fat Haggis]

Everything revolves around Supply and demand, and that's what dictates costs and prices, this is they way it has been in the commercial world of business since the dawn of time, even in my own industry other companies are undercutting your over heads with inferior products, and outsourcing those as well.

This may sound dumb, and possibly insulting to the farmers out there, but you should always have a plan B in business, especially when the market is saturated with your product, and never put all your eggs in one basket either, even the Millers themselves as unscrupulous as they appear to be have contingency plans, they will know what they're top and bottom profit margins will be, and they'll take advantage of the poor farmers, knowing that he needs to shift his product, but can't get the price he wants, in an ideal world, the miller will tell you from the outset, I'll buy your harvest for X amount of money, but you need to be prepared that this might drop, if he himself cannot sell the product onward's due to market saturation.

This year my girlfriends family didn't get as good a price for the Tapioca harvested as they expected, all down to market prices and supply and demand, and they had to readjust, and start budgeting a lot better.

The banks themselves need to be held more accountable, in that they're giving out loans that they know full well, the customer cannot meet the repayments, and I've seen this, and I'm seeing this in Thailand all the time, where status within the village is everything, and if one person buys a pickup, then another person has to buy a bigger one, and they don't see the the bigger picture. But hell, they look great in that car, and it looks awesome in their yard, but woe is me when they have to cough up their annual payments!!

Edited March 14, 2014 by Fat Haggis

[hotrod4098]

you can grow all the rice you want...TRY TO SELL IT ,THATS THE PROBLEM...any one can buy,,not everyone can sell..

the millers have instant cash..so can control the price...dont like the price ,dont sell it..

thais are greedy and wont as much money as they can on everything...then spend it as soon as it comes....whisky

,gambling..etc..

[hotrod4098]

debts are accrued by bad choice....why sell so much rice just to gamble..drink whisky..show off etc..thats why a lot of farmers go under..

rice cut around december....get it sold quickly...its party time...think i will have new car..show off in the village,,rice was good this year,,,

so around march time...all the cash has gone...no money to replant...so borrow more money...and so it goes on...

farmers are poor because the way they do things...

[SICHONSTEVE]

lived in issan for 4 years..not once did the rice sell make a profit...to many costs..all you do is spend out.and get back the same or less than the costs

rice for eating and seeds for next planting...otherwise dont bother growing it for profit

I agree, my lot stopped planting last year.

Said no profit, now some mug rents the land, so at least they get the rent as income.

Rice growing is not worthwhile, plant something else or sell the land, which strangely, is at an all time high.

Thailand is changing from an agricultural society to an industrial society, every time this happens the small farmers are forced out. It's not the fault of the government, it's the way developing countries work.

So you are saying that its not the governments fault that they falsely built up the rice farmers hopes by promising them riches when all they wanted was their vote!!!

[Fat Haggis]

Read it again Steve, this farmer, like many others wasn't a participant in the lame duck rice scheme, there are tens of thousands of farmers who didn't or who couldn't join the scheme. The price of Rice is at a record low, and Millers are capitalizing on this, and they know that the farmers need to sell, be fore they can replant the next crop.

The Price isn't going to get much higher, due to there being a massive amount to shift, that's the reality of it, supply and demand, you can gamble and store in the hope that the demand is higher, and therefore you can sell for higher, but that cuts both ways, it could easily drop lower, and then you're stuck with tonnes of the stuff, that you cannot get the asking price for, and needs must, and you sell at a loss, instead of making a profit.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Read it again Steve, this farmer, like many others wasn't a participant in the lame duck rice scheme, there are tens of thousands of farmers who didn't or who couldn't join the scheme. The price of Rice is at a record low, and Millers are capitalizing on this, and they know that the farmers need to sell, be fore they can replant the next crop.

The Price isn't going to get much higher, due to there being a massive amount to shift, that's the reality of it, supply and demand, you can gamble and store in the hope that the demand is higher, and therefore you can sell for higher, but that cuts both ways, it could easily drop lower, and then you're stuck with tonnes of the stuff, that you cannot get the asking price for, and needs must, and you sell at a loss, instead of making a profit.

OK, I accept that this wasn't the case (he wasn't a participant in the rice scam) - but whose fault is it that the price of rice is so low now??

Thaksin's foolish thinking that with Thailand being (well it was at the time) the number one rice exporter, it could manipulate prices by storing it and withholding it from the market in order to create a supply demand shortage situation.

When India, Vietnam and Cambodia, to name a few saw that they could increase production to fill this artificial void that is exactly what happened. Thailand ended up with 18 million tons of partially rotting rice (we will never know how much as everything is kept secret) and no money to pay the farmers. The 2.2 trillion baht (off-parliamentary budget scrutiny loan) they were seeking has gone by the wayside and they had no choice other than to flood the market with old substandard rice of which the millers knew they could buy at a cinch because of the governments desperate need for money to keep the farmers at bay!!

They have inadvertently sunk the rice price and put not only those (not-preferred) farmers in the rice scam in the lurch but the non-participating ones who cannot now sell their rice at a profit (indeed a loss in reality).

This is why this particular farmer's suicide is the fault of the government!!!

[Crushdepth]

If this is indeed the reason, it is more blood on the hands of the PM, her brother, and their government.

I fail to see how she can be blamed, when it was the Miller who was dropping the price to 5,000 baht per tonne, this is so sad indeed, it sounds like he wasn't part of the rice scam if he stored his rice locally.

As harsh as this sounds, but when you have so much rice to start shifting, that Price is not going to get much better than 8000-9000 baht per tonne, if or when the Government cesases, then the peoples council are still going to have to shift it, and they're not going to be able to meet the agreed price either, so many more farmers are going to be given the golden rivet!!

Would not be surprised if much of it ends being destroyed. It's still costing them money sitting in storage and dumping it will cause all sorts of woes.

[Fat Haggis]

I agree with a lot of what you've said there, however, you cannot say for sure the reason the global rice price is down to the current administration, supply and demand, more and more countries are producing ergo there's no shortage, buyers have had to go elsewhere, Which in that you can blame the current administration, to fill their own supply and demand quotas.

The same thing happened within the Scottish Salmon Industry, of which I was within at the time, after the demand for the product decreased, but the productions costs like everything else increased, and the result was that Salmon Farming companies had to sell their product at rock bottom prices, as there was just too much (supply).

I was also in Chile at one time when the US of A accused the Chilean Salmon farming community of "dumping" in an effort to drop the market value, so you can be assured that the Other Rice producing countries will be looking towards Thailand, with a view that they could be also accused of "dumping" and saturating the market, which drives prices down.

The sad thing is that I suspect that not one single farmer will receive what he "expected" unless he has a written contract, stating the price that was "negotiated" it's a shocking way in which the administration conducted this business, that's for sure, but irrespective of whether PTP remain in Power or a peoples council, or a Military Junta come into power, they still have to shift all that rice, otherwise it will perish even more so, and will make it pretty hard to recapture being one of the worlds leading rice producing countries.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I agree with a lot of what you've said there, however, you cannot say for sure the reason the global rice price is down to the current administration, supply and demand, more and more countries are producing ergo there's no shortage, buyers have had to go elsewhere, Which in that you can blame the current administration, to fill their own supply and demand quotas.

The same thing happened within the Scottish Salmon Industry, of which I was within at the time, after the demand for the product decreased, but the productions costs like everything else increased, and the result was that Salmon Farming companies had to sell their product at rock bottom prices, as there was just too much (supply).

I was also in Chile at one time when the US of A accused the Chilean Salmon farming community of "dumping" in an effort to drop the market value, so you can be assured that the Other Rice producing countries will be looking towards Thailand, with a view that they could be also accused of "dumping" and saturating the market, which drives prices down.

The sad thing is that I suspect that not one single farmer will receive what he "expected" unless he has a written contract, stating the price that was "negotiated" it's a shocking way in which the administration conducted this business, that's for sure, but irrespective of whether PTP remain in Power or a peoples council, or a Military Junta come into power, they still have to shift all that rice, otherwise it will perish even more so, and will make it pretty hard to recapture being one of the worlds leading rice producing countries.

You don't quite see what I'm getting at fat haggis.

Thaksin wanted to hold the world to ransom by creating a supply shortage. This, if it had happened (India, Vietnam and other countries ensured it didn't by filling the void) then the price would have risen ie: precisely his intention.

Due to the failure of this manipulative mechanism the price remained the same (it actually dropped slightly I think) and Thailand was left sitting on a massive rice mountain that had built up over 2+ years and releasing it onto the market would depress the prices further. This is what has happened now. The government ran out of money because of both corruption and the fact that they were meant to pay the farmers for 'every grain of rice produced' at 40 - 50% above the market price which is ludicrous and irresponsible.

They tried to beg steal and borrow this money to appease its (duped) voters but failed to do this. This left them with no alternative other than to dump rice on the market through constant auctions to raise the desperately needed money and over supply ensued, This crashed the rice price and the reason is solely down to Thaksin's folly of manipulation that failed spectacularly that the rice market is in such a complete mess!!!

[Jim walker]

RIP to the poor farmer and sincere condolences to his family, many people in the west also suffer from debit problems but we learn to live within our means and pay off our debts gradually and especially bad for farmers take care who you deal with and whom you sell your crops only deal with honest trustworthy people and we don’t all kill ourselves when things go wrong, and leave the remaining family to sort everything out I find it a bit selfish doing something so final and drastic like this and are his problems now solved, I doubt it unless he had a good insurance policy and its covered for suicide.

[Mudcrab]

Everything revolves around Supply and demand, and that's what dictates costs and prices, this is they way it has been in the commercial world of business since the dawn of time, even in my own industry other companies are undercutting your over heads with inferior products, and outsourcing those as well.

This may sound dumb, and possibly insulting to the farmers out there, but you should always have a plan B in business, especially when the market is saturated with your product, and never put all your eggs in one basket either, even the Millers themselves as unscrupulous as they appear to be have contingency plans, they will know what they're top and bottom profit margins will be, and they'll take advantage of the poor farmers, knowing that he needs to shift his product, but can't get the price he wants, in an ideal world, the miller will tell you from the outset, I'll buy your harvest for X amount of money, but you need to be prepared that this might drop, if he himself cannot sell the product onward's due to market saturation.

This year my girlfriends family didn't get as good a price for the Tapioca harvested as they expected, all down to market prices and supply and demand, and they had to readjust, and start budgeting a lot better.

The banks themselves need to be held more accountable, in that they're giving out loans that they know full well, the customer cannot meet the repayments, and I've seen this, and I'm seeing this in Thailand all the time, where status within the village is everything, and if one person buys a pickup, then another person has to buy a bigger one, and they don't see the the bigger picture. But hell, they look great in that car, and it looks awesome in their yard, but woe is me when they have to cough up their annual payments!!

Not in Shinland. they promised the rice farmers a certain price. They don't pay that price. Nothing to do with free market supply and demand. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Its also possible that this wasn't a suicide ...maybe a murder by the local moneylender mafia. Either way Yingluck has his blood on her hands

[SICHONSTEVE]

Everything revolves around Supply and demand, and that's what dictates costs and prices, this is they way it has been in the commercial world of business since the dawn of time, even in my own industry other companies are undercutting your over heads with inferior products, and outsourcing those as well.

This may sound dumb, and possibly insulting to the farmers out there, but you should always have a plan B in business, especially when the market is saturated with your product, and never put all your eggs in one basket either, even the Millers themselves as unscrupulous as they appear to be have contingency plans, they will know what they're top and bottom profit margins will be, and they'll take advantage of the poor farmers, knowing that he needs to shift his product, but can't get the price he wants, in an ideal world, the miller will tell you from the outset, I'll buy your harvest for X amount of money, but you need to be prepared that this might drop, if he himself cannot sell the product onward's due to market saturation.

This year my girlfriends family didn't get as good a price for the Tapioca harvested as they expected, all down to market prices and supply and demand, and they had to readjust, and start budgeting a lot better.

The banks themselves need to be held more accountable, in that they're giving out loans that they know full well, the customer cannot meet the repayments, and I've seen this, and I'm seeing this in Thailand all the time, where status within the village is everything, and if one person buys a pickup, then another person has to buy a bigger one, and they don't see the the bigger picture. But hell, they look great in that car, and it looks awesome in their yard, but woe is me when they have to cough up their annual payments!!

Its called 'living the dream' but often ends up being 'living beyond your means'!!

The first one is exciting at first and when the second element kicks in it can quickly turn into a nightmare of unfathomable proportions!!!

[Hedghog]

His mia noi outed him.

His true wife wouldn't take him back.

Drank to much,topped himself.

Loser.

[SICHONSTEVE]

His mia noi outed him.

His true wife wouldn't take him back.

Drank to much,topped himself.

Loser.

But, just maybe, not having any money didn't help!! Yes?

[Local Drunk]

His mia noi outed him.

His true wife wouldn't take him back.

Drank to much,topped himself.

Loser.

'

Loser? A man is dead and that's the best post you can come up with.

[Fat Haggis]

Everything revolves around Supply and demand, and that's what dictates costs and prices, this is they way it has been in the commercial world of business since the dawn of time, even in my own industry other companies are undercutting your over heads with inferior products, and outsourcing those as well.

This may sound dumb, and possibly insulting to the farmers out there, but you should always have a plan B in business, especially when the market is saturated with your product, and never put all your eggs in one basket either, even the Millers themselves as unscrupulous as they appear to be have contingency plans, they will know what they're top and bottom profit margins will be, and they'll take advantage of the poor farmers, knowing that he needs to shift his product, but can't get the price he wants, in an ideal world, the miller will tell you from the outset, I'll buy your harvest for X amount of money, but you need to be prepared that this might drop, if he himself cannot sell the product onward's due to market saturation.

This year my girlfriends family didn't get as good a price for the Tapioca harvested as they expected, all down to market prices and supply and demand, and they had to readjust, and start budgeting a lot better.

The banks themselves need to be held more accountable, in that they're giving out loans that they know full well, the customer cannot meet the repayments, and I've seen this, and I'm seeing this in Thailand all the time, where status within the village is everything, and if one person buys a pickup, then another person has to buy a bigger one, and they don't see the the bigger picture. But hell, they look great in that car, and it looks awesome in their yard, but woe is me when they have to cough up their annual payments!!

Not in Shinland. they promised the rice farmers a certain price. They don't pay that price. Nothing to do with free market supply and demand. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Its also possible that this wasn't a suicide ...maybe a murder by the local moneylender mafia. Either way Yingluck has his blood on her hands

I'm in no way trying to defend the scheme, but what I would like is for those who are privy to the paperwork, can they provide any documentation of figures and pledges and of course signatures to state that it was all a legal binding document, signed by the farmer and the Government sponsor.. that should go a long way to clearing up some of my glaringly obvious concerns.

Or was it simply a case of If you let us store the rice for you, and you vote for us and we will then give you 15,000 baht per tonne all done verbally...surely not???

But then, it can't be about votes, as there hasn't been a general elections since the scheme was dream t up, and started??. What and how did things pan out in 2011, 2012 and well we know all about 2013, as it seems they've still got all of 2012's stock to sell as well, and therein lies the problem.

It was a stupid scheme, but I'm sorry, if the farmers had perhaps not been so greedy and thinking they were going to get rich quick, they too should have seen the nightmare scenario that could possibly unfold, as it apparently has big time!!

If that is indeed the case, where they've taken a pledge at face value, then Both the farmers and the Government are to blame for their own predicament. Sounds almost like it was a case of selling sand to the Arabs and ice to the Eskimo's. Is there any TVF members caught up in this pledge scheme that can elaborate a bit more??

[Dap]

The rice millers have always screwed the Thai farmers, And now, they don't adjust to the

current predicament. The govt. line remains ... the rice shame is for the benefit of the farmers.

How can the populace not see what is occuring? I just don't get it!!

[Thai at Heart]

If this is indeed the reason, it is more blood on the hands of the PM, her brother, and their government.

Sorry mate but no you are wrong!!!,

the farmer did NOT sell to the rice pledging scheme, but to an independent miller that cut the buying price far lower than the farmer could afford, This is one of the reasons why the government started the rice pledging scheme, to help the farmers out of poverty by offering a higher price than the rich profiteering of millers holding them to ransom , GEE have you ever heard of price fixing??? Which goes on in the most modern country's and when they get caught they are made to pay large fines and sometimes jail, but here the out stretched Palme's are crossed with cash and everything is just a misunderstanding,,,now remember TIT so it's been going on for years, Now I agree the rice pledging scheme is not a well planed policy and full of corruption, BUT in your claim the PM has blood on her hands, try understanding the facts before throwing around blame, fair enough.

I think there is little doubt that the price has been fixed by the millers forever. The risk has been born in totality by the farmer. Global prices go up 10%, they see a small increase at the farm gate, global prices go down, they absorb the entire loss at the gate. The government SHOULD have intervened in some way to provide an effective bottom to the market. They could have set up a milling and export company to take up the slack and take on some of the risk. The deal could simply be that it is would be non profit making, and provide some type of crop insurance against disaster etc. But alas. No. Thaksin messed it up so badly in his desire to smash the rice barons, he has created an almight mess.

They could have stayed out of the premium rice business and simply been a buyer of last resort for the other stuff.

[SICHONSTEVE]

If this is indeed the reason, it is more blood on the hands of the PM, her brother, and their government.

Sorry mate but no you are wrong!!!,

the farmer did NOT sell to the rice pledging scheme, but to an independent miller that cut the buying price far lower than the farmer could afford, This is one of the reasons why the government started the rice pledging scheme, to help the farmers out of poverty by offering a higher price than the rich profiteering of millers holding them to ransom , GEE have you ever heard of price fixing??? Which goes on in the most modern country's and when they get caught they are made to pay large fines and sometimes jail, but here the out stretched Palme's are crossed with cash and everything is just a misunderstanding,,,now remember TIT so it's been going on for years, Now I agree the rice pledging scheme is not a well planed policy and full of corruption, BUT in your claim the PM has blood on her hands, try understanding the facts before throwing around blame, fair enough.

I think there is little doubt that the price has been fixed by the millers forever. The risk has been born in totality by the farmer. Global prices go up 10%, they see a small increase at the farm gate, global prices go down, they absorb the entire loss at the gate. The government SHOULD have intervened in some way to provide an effective bottom to the market. They could have set up a milling and export company to take up the slack and take on some of the risk. The deal could simply be that it is would be non profit making, and provide some type of crop insurance against disaster etc. But alas. No. Thaksin messed it up so badly in his desire to smash the rice barons, he has created an almight mess.

They could have stayed out of the premium rice business and simply been a buyer of last resort for the other stuff.

What!! So they should have continued with Abhisit's rice insurance policy (which you have just described) that was affordable and worked. I quite agree, just like they should have continued Abhisit's free health care scheme instead of taxing them 30 baht which cost more to collect than it took in.

If you get an ignoramus directing policy you are storing up problems!!! The Democrats are much more savvy than these 'peasant parties' will ever be when it comes to economics.