95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

[F430murci]

Putin is playing this victory dance like he raped the USA. He can't help himself.

That is not lost on American voters.

I predict the presidential contest in 2016 will be HAWK democrat Hillary Clinton vs. radical isolationist "libertarian" Rand Paul.

Clinton will win big and Putin won't be dancing anymore.

Putin and Russia the "gas station" have a crazy big head.

The relationship that actually MATTERS in the century has little to do with Russia, it's about Chimerica, CHINA - USA.

Cheers.

Why, what do you expect Hillary or anyone to do

Who cares what Putin thinks. That is just pride talking. Russians and Ukranians have a crap existence and live very hard lives. Let them have their day and enjoy what ever victories than can squeeze out of life.

China, screw China. They are just now hitting their bubble and have nothing to offer US long term. Their products are crap, their currency is crap, their banks are screwed, the cities are polluted almost to the point of being uninhabitable and the common man lives a shit existence there. I see China as being nothing but a long term drain on the world unless something changes drastically.

[benalibina]

The Crimea has been part of Russia for since a hundred years before Hawaii became part of the US. It was Krushchev (a native of Ukraine) who arbitrarily gifted the strategic peninsula of the Crimea to his homeland when he came to power in the Soviet Union in the 1950's.

It's quite presumptuous - cynical minds night say disingenuous - for the US and the west to assume that anyone had to hold a gun to the Crimean's heads to get them to join Russia. They already had a shooting war at the breakup of the Soviet Union where they narrowly missed independence and instead got autonomy from the Ukraine after 40 years of resentment to Krushchev's decision.

Given the noise that the West made about national self-determination in Kosovo, Sudan, Taiwan and so on it really is a bit off to be changing the tune now.

If I can learn about Crimean history from the internet, so can the CIA.

The HOW is probably the issue. Not the WHAT. Regarding self determination.

Can you clarify what you mean in the context of Crimea please?

Crimeas populace has a russian majority. Its been a part of Russia before. The past Ukranian governments have been a shambles, as is the present 1. So its understandable that the majority wants to be independent/part of Russia. The way how it has been done, seen the recent happenings, is not the correct way. It brings fear to the region and to the minority of the Crimeans, ie Tartars and Ukranians.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. This thread is not about the US. References to the US and other countries need to be made in the context of the Ukrainian situation.

[Credo]

I wonder what Putin would have done had the vote not gone his way?

That would be the measure of a great leader.

[benalibina]

I wonder what Putin would have done had the vote not gone his way?

That would be the measure of a great leader.

He aint that daft. He is a clever leader....but will never be a great leader. He is playing the nationalistic trumpet.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

Off-topic posts have been deleted. This thread is not about the US. References to the US and other countries need to be made in the context of the Ukrainian situation.

We can add China to the list, as well.

[englishoak]

I just edited that totally for you re your last comment ... thanks a lot

[englishoak]

I wonder what Putin would have done had the vote not gone his way?

That would be the measure of a great leader.

He aint that daft. He is a clever leader....but will never be a great leader. He is playing the nationalistic trumpet.

He would have never gone in if not sure of the response.

Far as being a great leader ? well where do you think Russia would be now without him ? he shows promise which is more than can be said for most others about at the moment.

[benalibina]

I wonder what Putin would have done had the vote not gone his way?

That would be the measure of a great leader.

He aint that daft. He is a clever leader....but will never be a great leader. He is playing the nationalistic trumpet.

He would have never gone in if not sure of the response.

Far as being a great leader ? well where do you think Russia would be now without him ? he shows promise which is more than can be said for most others about at the moment.

True but his promises, what is behind it, are questionable and dangerous. U know that as well.

[englishoak]

Agree totally, heres the thing ive noticed about Putin though. He rarely avoids a direct question and does give a direct answer, even if its unpalatable. He really is at home in a debate, hes comfortable and he comes across well Obama and most other leaders are clearly not capable without the prompters or thier own man where as Putin clearly is, he makes others nervous obviously because he is so comfortable and unemotional on the stage, he dosnt make stupid threats or silly claims, people notice this. Putin could be and possibly will be a great leader, hes had the experience and hes certainly showing hes learnt a lot.

Let us hope he uses it well and does not become drunk on his popularity as most do.

[benalibina]

Agree totally, heres the thing ive noticed about Putin though. He rarely avoids a direct question and does give a direct answer, even if its unpalatable. He really is at home in a debate, hes comfortable and he comes across well Obama and most other leaders are clearly not capable without the prompters or thier own man where as Putin clearly is, he makes others nervous obviously because he is so comfortable and unemotional on the stage, he dosnt make stupid threats or silly claims, people notice this. Putin could be and possibly will be a great leader, hes had the experience and hes certainly showing hes learnt a lot.

Let us hope he uses it well and does not become drunk on his popularity as most do.

Well...he is drunk on his popularity. Nearly 14 years in power. According to him ...the collapse of the Soviet Union was a big mistake......so....u know what his mission is. He is old school with new money. He is dangerous but to be honest.....i understand why many can like him.

[englishoak]

From the Russian ruling perspective ive no doubt the collapse was a terrible mistake. It wont be back though just like the British empire wont be, Putin i suspect knows it, im not so sure hes old school either, in part sure but ive a feeling hes learnt a lot more from the going through the collapse than to make the same mistakes again rebuilding a USSR.

I would'nt say i like him so much as respect the man, its been no small thing to turn a country around, true he didnt do it alone but its taken a strong hand and hes not been afraid to make hard decisions and with some sense of logic at least.

[Asiantravel]

Further dangerous escalation

Russia warns West it may change stance on Iran, in retaliation over sanctions

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/russia-warns-west-it-may-change-stance-on-iran-in-retaliation-over-sanctions/

[Kanthralak 1]

And dont forget Zimbabwe.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

Further dangerous escalation

Russia warns West it may change stance on Iran, in retaliation over sanctions

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/19/russia-warns-west-it-may-change-stance-on-iran-in-retaliation-over-sanctions/

So he's doubling down on the pariah nation thing then.

I think his next move is engineering another phony excuse to invade more of Ukraine. Hope I'm wrong.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/17/opinion/ghitis-crimea-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t5

The referendum process was a travesty. Thousands of invading soldiers, no campaigning to hear differing views, no choice on the ballot for the status quo, intimidation of opponents, and a lightning-fast schedule after the local government is overthrown under the watch of armed men in unmarked camouflage fatigues. Democracy? You tell me.

...

There are clear signs that Putin has designs on eastern Ukraine. He may not have decided yet. And what if he orders an invasion there? What if he goes for the rest of Ukraine? After all, Russia has close ties to Crimea, but it also has strong emotional ties to Kiev. And then? Many neighboring republics are getting nervous. Their history books are replete with stories of conquest. Would Moscow dare? We just don't know.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[sotsira]

The EU & UK need to think carefully before taking sides and getting involved with Russian and Ukrainian

politics, unlike the US who have the geographical distance as a safety barrier, whereas on the other hand

Europe is on Russia's doorstep and has a lot more to lose than what the US has.

[Jingthing]

The EU & UK need to think carefully before taking sides and getting involved with Russian and Ukrainian

politics, unlike the US who have the geographical distance as a safety barrier, whereas on the other hand

Europe is on Russia's doorstep and has a lot more to lose than what the US has.

Appeasement against cynical aggressors always has its fans. History shows there is a time when appeasement must end. A bully like Putin doesn't respect it.

There is a time for "reset" and there is a time for NYET NYET!!!

The question now is how to stop Putin from further invasions on Ukraine territory. Nobody wants those methods to be military.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[whoisyourdaddy]

Jing, name countries throughout history which were colonized by Russians ?

Having trouble ? I wonder why

[sotsira]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

[benalibina]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

[Jingthing]

Jing, name countries throughout history which were colonized by Russians ?

Having trouble ? I wonder why

Colonized isn't what I would call what the Russians did to many other countries during the USSR Soviet era.

[Jingthing]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Do you actually BELIEVE the Putin propaganda about defending Russians? I am amazed that any westerner would actually believe that. Russians, I understand, nationalism, their seduced by a strong man dictator, and an almost totally controlled PRESS (by, you guessed it, Putin). I also understand that some people, including Americans, are so anti-American that they'll put on an act of believing liar Putin just because they know that Putin is positioning himself now as the man against everything America. So that's not belief, that's just taking a partisan side.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[sotsira]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

I think the truth is in the title of this thread:

95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

Where's the aggression?

[benalibina]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

I think the truth is in the title of this thread:

95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

Where's the aggression?

Fear was in the eye of the beholder.

Topic title should read....95,5% of the 1s who voted etc...

[Jingthing]

Also there was no debate, it was done under a foreign invasion, and NO CHOICE offered for status quo.

[folium]

Jing, name countries throughout history which were colonized by Russians ?

Having trouble ? I wonder why

Countries colonized by Russia.....

Firstly quick definition of a colony...

"a colony is a territory under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the sovereign state"

Well we have the Russian-American company (Russia's first ever shareholder owned company) that existed from 1799-1867 and established settlements in Alaska, Sonoma County CA, and Hawaii. These were all sold to the USA in 1867.

From 1500-1900 Russia expanded south and east establishing colonial rule in the Southern Caucasus (Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Chechnya, Ingushetia, Dagestan); east of the Caspian (Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kygyrstan, Uzbekistan, Siberia, Pacific littoral); on the western frontier we have Karelia, Ukraine and Byelorussia (though Ukraine was strictly speaking semi-colonial as an agent in imperial expansion).

From 1940-91 Russia had colonies in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Moldavia.

While all of these colonies {with the exception of Siberia, the Pacific, Karelia, Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan} are now independent, Russia continues to exert a neo-colonial grip over them to varying degrees as we have recently seen in dramatic style with the invasion/annexation of Crimea.

It is possible to argue that the Warsaw Pact nations were effectively colonies of Russia's from 1945-89 as they were subject to Soviet political and military control so that would include a further seven countries (Poland, East Germany, Czechoslavakia, Romania, Hungary, Albania and Bulgaria).

So how many does that make...?

[folium]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

I think the truth is in the title of this thread:

95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

Where's the aggression?

Firstly not all Crimeans voted in the referendum. Not many non-Russian speakers/Tatars took part in the vote.

Secondly the aggression is simple and plainly visible. Russia sent its troops in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum, international law and the agreement re the presence of Russian troops inside 3 bases within the Crimea. That would count as aggression to any rational thinking, non-Putin dupe.

[Jingthing]

Firstly not all Crimeans voted in the referendum. Not many non-Russian speakers/Tatars took part in the vote.

Secondly the aggression is simple and plainly visible. Russia sent its troops in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum, international law and the agreement re the presence of Russian troops inside 3 bases within the Crimea. That would count as aggression to any rational thinking, non-Putin dupe.

Exactly.

Good for Putin though in that he doesn't seem to be suffering from a shortage of dupes.

[sotsira]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

I think the truth is in the title of this thread:

95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

Where's the aggression?

Firstly not all Crimeans voted in the referendum. Not many non-Russian speakers/Tatars took part in the vote.

Secondly the aggression is simple and plainly visible. Russia sent its troops in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum, international law and the agreement re the presence of Russian troops inside 3 bases within the Crimea. That would count as aggression to any rational thinking, non-Putin dupe.

No, not all the population voted, but the majority did, any rational thinking person would know that you would never get a 100% voter turn out.

As for your interpretation of aggression i reiterate there was no violence or bloodshed, unlike what happened for weeks in Kiev by the anti government protesters, now that was plainly visible.

[englishoak]

I wouldn't call Putin a cynical aggressor in all this, no blood has been spilt in Crimea

whereas in Kiev there were killings and violent clashes that provoked Putin's hand to do what he did

which was through the ballot box.

It just so happens that the US & Europe didn't like the outcome.

Leaving the words "wouldnt and cynical" out of ur comment....and it gets a different meaning.A truthfull 1.

I think the truth is in the title of this thread:

95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

Where's the aggression?

Firstly not all Crimeans voted in the referendum. Not many non-Russian speakers/Tatars took part in the vote.

Secondly the aggression is simple and plainly visible. Russia sent its troops in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum, international law and the agreement re the presence of Russian troops inside 3 bases within the Crimea. That would count as aggression to any rational thinking, non-Putin dupe.

Then they should have voted, what do the non voters represent in % ? 2, 5, 25% ? even if 25% and every single one voted no that would only have been 27% no and 73% yes. Still very conclusive.

You say aggression but it could also be called a peace keeping force,How many casualties ? it has in fact more in common with the latter than the former.

Jing I am assuming you are american the US is trying to palm Crimea off as Ukrainian which it isnt historically at all, it was just a region handed under administrative control to Ukraine, it even pre-dates Ukraine with its own history. Im not sure why you would instantly assume Putin is so bad whilst the EU and the US are so good, unless of course you have that west is best thing going on.They have been destabilising the Ukraine for a decade under the intention of converting Ukraine to become part of the EU and western block.

Im sure some here are aware of the Orange revolution and it might be a good idea to look at who the backers were, at what point they changed tack, its goals and manipulation. Its far from being all about Putin and the Ukraine has been the whipping boy of these factions and attempts at democratising it for over a decade.

Really its just Sour grapes at losing the Crimea as its a key strategic area. it would have been very happy to bring the EU right upto the front door of Russia, far as Russia is concerned thats like having red china right on the Mexican border.