Do Thais have too narrow safety margins?

[brit1984]

many thais dont think much about tomorrow... and if you dont care about tomorrow, you dont worry about dying today

its not how i think but it does make some sense... because however much you enjoy life, you wont miss it when your dead

[Estrada]

What safety margin? Are you kidding?

[soundman]

I have removed an inflammatory post. Please try to keep it civil.

[philippa]

There does seem to be a complete lack of spacial awareness on the roads/footpaths, I didn't presume it to be about racial superiority/inferiority, I just thought it was a cultural difference....that said I find it quite disconcerting as I get around on a bicycle, and I am likely to be the one who doesn't come out alive if someone decides to run over the top of "invisible" me.

I don't think it is helped by the fact that there are frequently 8-12 year olds driving scooters around the streets. Inevitably in each near-death-experience I've had on Thai roads the vehicle that has nearly taken me out has been in the control of a child. I'm sure there would be the same problems, if not worse, back in Australia if 12 year olds were allowed to drive on the streets, tunnel vision and all that...

[techboy]

I have not noticed the unusual lack of safety margin which you speak of. Contrary to what you suggest I find pedestrians even in Bangkok to be at least as courteous as Westerners and other Asian countries. Drivers can be kind of wild here but nothing unusual for Asia or (OMG!)a Latin country. Density of pedestrian or vehicular traffic and time of day affect the mentality of "safety margin" here as anyplace else. A good guess is that you recently got your feathers ruffled over a small incident. You are merely soliciting a round of Thai bashing. Sorry I have no stories with which to gratify you.

[1BADDAT]

I was in a situation yesterday that is similar to what the OP posted. I was driving home on my motorcyle from work. This is a BUSY divided 6 lane road with cars doing ~100 kmh. There are markets and stores on each side of the road, so people routinely cross the street. I was on the outside shoulder and there was a person waiting to cross the street who was very close to traffic. I was on the shoulder and they were in my direct path. They made eye contact with me, but did not move. I did not slow down at all. It was then that he realized that I was not going to move out of the way and he finally backed up.

In the West, no one would step into the shoulder to wait to cross the street. They would wait further back until the traffic cleared. Here it seems the Thais are willing to put themselves in danger and count on the other people to pay attention enough not to kill them.

In the OP's case, there is no danger at all in walking, so why would they be concerned about moving out of the way?

Edited March 18, 2014 by 1BADDAT

[tomyumchai]

I actually think a lot of it is based purely on the fact that they cannot do more than one thing at a time, ie, not capable of multi tasking. I know with my wife, if I interupt her while she is doing something she loses the plot, driving she will totally miss the turn she should make or narrowly miss a car because I have disturbed her concentration by talking to her. Most thais seem to suffer this, they concentrate on one task and cannot think of anything else or they stuff up. Walking, riding, driving, they can only see where they are going anything else is just blocked out, be it looking for other cars before turning/pulling out etc, it just does not compute. When walking they watch where they are going and not anyone else that is around them, they are blocked out and this is why they continually hit each other, if they stop to think about what is happening around them they will get turned around and have to try to sort out what they were doing before it happened. All you need do is watch perople to see it, they concentrate purely on one thing at a time and everything else is simply out of focus to them.

yup its quite easy to test this theory on a daily basis. order 2 or 3 different dishes in a restaurant, see what comes out. or if that DID manage to work then order 3 different drinks and separate bills...........

try even ORDERING food up round the north west side of thailand and before you all start crying the 'racist' card at me this is the view of my Thai partner who tries to order, i dont even bother any more i just wait to see what arrives at the table.

[Card]

I have not noticed the unusual lack of safety margin which you speak of. Contrary to what you suggest I find pedestrians even in Bangkok to be at least as courteous as Westerners and other Asian countries. Drivers can be kind of wild here but nothing unusual for Asia or (OMG!)a Latin country. Density of pedestrian or vehicular traffic and time of day affect the mentality of "safety margin" here as anyplace else. A good guess is that you recently got your feathers ruffled over a small incident. You are merely soliciting a round of Thai bashing. Sorry I have no stories with which to gratify you.

You seem to think that the phenomenon of which I speak is one of being discourteous. It may be I don't know but I don't assume it usually is. I also find pedestrians on the whole courteous in Thailand. Maybe I am not getting my message across. I am talking about reaction times to other people nearby - a purely instinctive thing. It's not Thai bashing and your comment is reverse knee-jerk farang bashing as far as I can make out, although much of it is not rational. If no-one else finds the same thing then it's a damp squib. It's just an observation of mine. If we can't discuss the idiosyncracis of other races/nationalities without it being called 'bashing' then it is PC gone mad.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Card

[Andre0720]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So forbidden to denigrate the Thais on the basis that they not very careful on the roads

But then you denigrate those farangs who raise the subject....

[namdocmai]

In crowds i just walk and don't pay attention to others at all. Just like on the roads where big vehicles have more right of way then smaller ones. I 'm 90 kg and tall and i noticed that if you don't look at all where you walk then the Thai will give way to you. They react at the very last moment to avoid a collision.

Also running around children have to learn that tall people don't (want to) see them, so i let them bump into me. It is impossible to avoid those children all the time while shopping on a market or mall so just let them learn the lesson the hard way.

Also walking on the pavement while motorbikes/bikes approach me i don't give way at all. They have never driven into me. They know they should not ride there at all and that they are wrong but they just try you out.

[kannot]

So the thousands that are killed on the Roads in western countries are what, just accidents, and those that are killed in Thailand, just stupidity ?

ThaiVisa at it's unbelievably finest.

you need to add "thousands" for one and "hundreds of thousands" for the other for your drivel to make sense

[KRaymond]

There is a theory that Asians (not just Thai's) have a different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle. Therefore people will stand 2 abreast on escalators without regard to the people behind them. For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues. Add to this the Buddhist belief that you will be reborn and everyone has a preordained time to die and the facts speak for themselves. When you add this to the mix of almost zero health and safety regulations (or at least H&S res that are followed) and its a dangerous place to live.

Next door to me is a building site with all the H&S signs forbidding workers on site without helmets and safety boots etc etc. The other day I counted (on 25 workers) three safety helmets, no safety boots and a welder without any eye protection.

Perhaps you can provide the source of this theory? Or I'll just assume that it is your theory.

It's true that Asians have different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle, but you would hardly see two people standing in a row on escalator in Japan.

If this theory can generalize whole Asia as (For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues.).... can I generalize that all farangs will never act without minding other people?

How's that for a theory

Edited March 18, 2014 by KRaymond

[Jonmarleesco]

Examples? It's par for the course, in every facet of Thai life.

[Jonmarleesco]

In crowds i just walk and don't pay attention to others at all. Just like on the roads where big vehicles have more right of way then smaller ones. I 'm 90 kg and tall and i noticed that if you don't look at all where you walk then the Thai will give way to you. They react at the very last moment to avoid a collision.

Also running around children have to learn that tall people don't (want to) see them, so i let them bump into me. It is impossible to avoid those children all the time while shopping on a market or mall so just let them learn the lesson the hard way.

Also walking on the pavement while motorbikes/bikes approach me i don't give way at all. They have never driven into me. They know they should not ride there at all and that they are wrong but they just try you out.

'I'm 90 kg and tall and i noticed that if you don't look at all where you walk then the Thai will give way to you.'

And do you also ignore westerners in your path? Do you assume they're going to give way because you aren't watching where you're going?

[thailandbeachisland]

Yes, dinosaurs were slow also for some reasons...

[kimbathewhitelion]

If there were no Farangs, there would be no reason for anything "safety".

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Rorri]

Sigurris, on 17 Mar 2014 - 15:30, said:

There is a theory that Asians (not just Thai's) have a different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle. Therefore people will stand 2 abreast on escalators without regard to the people behind them. For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues. Add to this the Buddhist belief that you will be reborn and everyone has a preordained time to die and the facts speak for themselves. When you add this to the mix of almost zero health and safety regulations (or at least H&S res that are followed) and its a dangerous place to live.

Next door to me is a building site with all the H&S signs forbidding workers on site without helmets and safety boots etc etc. The other day I counted (on 25 workers) three safety helmets, no safety boots and a welder without any eye protection.

Your analogy to an escalator is flawed, simply because two abreast is perfectly OK, it is people who walk ,while on escalators, that are, as far as safety is concerned, wrong. You should stand still and hold the hand rail, this is clearly shown on the safety label before you step on. The reasoning is that your mind expects each step to be the same, on an escalator this not so, this difference can cause you to trip with severe consequences, if any body parts strike the edge of the metal steps.

[Rorri]

Card, on 17 Mar 2014 - 18:39, said:

wilcopops, on 17 Mar 2014 - 18:28, said:

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

Contrary to what some say, that is, some of us feel we are superior, I have had the feeling that it is the Thais that feel they are superior and expect others to move out of their way, to the point where sometimes I will stop, and the buggers will bump into me, this while looking at me.

[1BADDAT]

Sigurris, on 17 Mar 2014 - 15:30, said:

There is a theory that Asians (not just Thai's) have a different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle. Therefore people will stand 2 abreast on escalators without regard to the people behind them. For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues. Add to this the Buddhist belief that you will be reborn and everyone has a preordained time to die and the facts speak for themselves. When you add this to the mix of almost zero health and safety regulations (or at least H&S res that are followed) and its a dangerous place to live.

Next door to me is a building site with all the H&S signs forbidding workers on site without helmets and safety boots etc etc. The other day I counted (on 25 workers) three safety helmets, no safety boots and a welder without any eye protection.

Your analogy to an escalator is flawed, simply because two abreast is perfectly OK, it is people who walk ,while on escalators, that are, as far as safety is concerned, wrong. You should stand still and hold the hand rail, this is clearly shown on the safety label before you step on. The reasoning is that your mind expects each step to be the same, on an escalator this not so, this difference can cause you to trip with severe consequences, if any body parts strike the edge of the metal steps.

Replace "escalator" with "moving sidewalk". Still the same situation

[wym]

TiT silly foreigners nothing is so important that you should have to hurry, just relax and go with the flow.

[Razer64]

This entire question of yours is wrong on many counts, the most obvious one being the fact that your safety is your responsibility. You have to look out for yourself. It is quite dangerous to assume that others are going to look out for you. They’re not. That being said, to answer your question, yes, the Thai do have “narrow safety margins”.

My wife, born and raised in Thailand and never leaving it for for the first forty years of her life, lived with me in America for nine plus years and loved every minute of it. We lived in Las Vegas. Las Vegas has the highest vehicle accident rate in America, some of the worst roads in America, and has some of the the worst drivers you have ever seen in your life. My wife, when she started driving in Las Vegas, was extremely well pleased with the roads, the “smoothest and best” she’d ever driven on, and was also well pleased with the habits and manners of the other drivers. Of course, I had no idea what she was talking about until I came to Thailand for the first time and took the road from the airport to our province.

“Narrow safety margins” indeed.

Let’s take the elevator for another example. The folks getting on the elevator crowd in front of the door like lemmings, and when it opens, there is always this comical, confused clash of bodies going this way and that when those on the elevator are getting off ram into those who are already packed into the elevator, like lemmings.

The elevators are always packed like lemmings. No one ever waits for another elevator unless and until they are certain it is packed with no available space whatsoever.

No one ever stops to think that it is only in their best interest to stand out of the way of the door of the elevator when it opens to let others off so they can get on. No one ever stops to think that this simple method will be faster and easier for all concerned. Often that which we westerners perceive as greed, selfishness, and the cult of “ME! ME! ME!” here in Thailand, is merely unthinking carelessness and stupidity.

On the other hand, it often is the cult of “ME! ME! ME!” at work. Let’s take for example, my step-son. He’s a good boy, don’t get me wrong, but he, like so many, many, many other Thai men are, quite simply, spoiled lazy. And that’s just all that there is to it. Why this is done to the men of this country is beyond me, but that’s just another one of those things that is what it is and I cannot tell what is to be done about it. I mean, I have always been self-reliant and self-sufficient. I got my first job after school at age nine, delivering newspapers on not just one, but three routes, often working into the evening, well past supper. At age 12, my parents had had enough of city life and moved us out to a big hobby farm in a rural area, where I was often trailing loosed cattle and horses, alone, at all hours of the night, after they had broken down a fence and ran off. And I did all that before school. You get the idea. We were made to think and to do for ourselves, and to think generously of others along the way.

Here in Thailand, the men are encouraged to sit on their asses, thinking of absolutely no one but themselves, playing video games and taking creature comforts all the days of their lives, it seems. I will never understand this as long as I live. I mean, have they no self-respect? No ambition? No sense of adventure? No plan? No goals? For many of them, it does seem to be so.

On my step-son’s first visit to America, coming home from the airport, my wife was trying to move baggage from the trunk of my car to the front door of the house. He, of course, seventeen years old, got out of the car and walked to the front door empty-handed, save for his iPhone. My wife tripped and fell against the concrete steps in front of the door. Thankfully, she wasn’t hurt, but badly scared and shook up from the incident. Her beloved son just stood there and watched the entire incident without flinching. He just stood there and watched his mother writhing on the sidewalk, trying to get herself up. He was completely unperturbed, downright serene, in fact. I was flabbergasted at his reaction, or non-reaction, depending on how you want to look at it. I ran to see that my wife was all right and helped her up. The boy just stood there in his pink T-shirt and started noodling on his iPhone. I looked straight at him. He looked back at me, as if to say, “What?” I reached over and took the iPhone out of his hand and said, “There are plenty of bags left in the car that need to be brought in, namely, yours. Get to it.” He looked at me, quite shocked. He had never seen such a look on my face before or such a tone in my voice. I had never interfered with the relationship between him and his mother before. This was a first for all concerned. The look scared him, and he knew instinctively not to do anything other than exactly what I told him in that moment. The boy is a brainiac. He does remarkably well in school with his books and tests, leaving most others in the dust, and that’s without any homework or practice. At everything else he tries, besides his video games, he is hopelessly inept. This type of person is almost always obedient to the death, especially toward “authority”. I sounded like “authority” in that instant, and he always acknowledges and bows to “authority” at the drop of a hat. I had no idea until that moment, after all this time I’d known him, how easy it was to make him do pretty much whatever I want him to do. Fortunately for him, that’s not my style, not my way of doing things, unless absolutely necessary.

He reluctantly went to the car and dragged his belongings into the doorway, leaving the trunk of my car wide open, leaving the front door of the house wide open, plopping down on a chair in the front room, and starting in on his iPhone again. “Come on, I’ll show you to your room.”

“Huh?” He said, looking at me, as if to say, “I do not wish to be disturbed right now.” But again, he was scared and knew better than to try and defy me. After I showed him his room, I said, “After you come in from outside locking up the car you left open and the front door you left open, you may carry your bags into this room and take a shower and get ready to go out for some dinner, if you want any.” He stopped for a moment in the hallway and stared after me in disbelief. No one had ever talked to him like that before, ever, in his entire life. He was seventeen at that time. Lucky for him, he did what he was told.

Welcome to America, Boy. You’re in for a few more surprises. Get ready.

His first stay in America was very brief. It was only for the purpose of fulfilling an immigration requirement. Needless to say, he stuck very close to his mother the entire visit. He didn’t want anything to do with any of my activities, e.g., shooting shotguns, riding bicycles, martial arts, hiking in the mountains, etc. He preferred the tranquility of my living room and being by his mother’s side and getting waited on.

His second visit came a while later, again for the purpose of fulfilling an immigration requirement. Only this time, I had to fetch him from the airport personally and he was alone.

He got with the program immediately and with no help or encouragement from me. He followed all my instructions to the letter on how to run the washing machine, how to wash his own dirty dishes, how to cook his meals, how to keep his bathroom spiffy, among other chores he had never done before in his life. He wasn’t upset that I made him do his own chores. He was grateful that I didn’t make him do mine as well.

Sore Winner Sore Loser
To pass some of our time together, I showed him the games of Monopoly, chess, checkers, and a few others he’d never tried before. This was a big mistake on my part, for the boy could not lose without getting extremely angry, nor could he win without trying to rub it in someone’s face. Anything less than getting his ass kissed was considered an affront to him and his serenity and perfection. No one wanted to play with him. I put the games away and that was that. Again, his stay was brief, and he was glad to get home to mama.

Here we are in Thailand a few years later. He’s still living at home, playing video games. No improvement there at all. But he is great in his school work and was accepted at a good business college in Bangkok. Yep, you guessed it, when he goes off to school soon, he will be taking, not his busy, hardworking mother with him, but his doting Auntie, who deprives him of absolutely nothing, no matter how ridiculous the order. She will be staying with him near his dorm until he “gets settled in”. Yikes. She could never have any children of her own, so her fondness for the lad is understandable, I suppose.

He likes to try and do everything I (and others) do. He simply must show everyone up and prove that he is better than everyone. He isn’t, but it’s kinda cute watching him try. When I went out and bought a new laptop and brought it into the house and set to my work, he had Auntie take him out to get a new laptop. He brought it home and set it up, staring over at me the entire time, then finally asked how much I had spent on mine. When I told him, he grinned and said he had spent a lot more. The laptop has been sitting there ever since. He has no use for it. It was bought just to try and show me up.

When his fat friend stopped eating like a horse, lost weight, and started taking Muay Thai boxing lessons and getting himself into fine physical condition, he tried to do the same, but couldn’t discipline himself enough to do the exercises. When he saw his friend sparring with another student, he wanted to jump in there immediately and give it a try. When he was told he wasn’t ready for sparring, he said, pointing to his friend and laughing, “If he can do it--I can sure do it!” At that, they let him gear up. His friend whopped his butt of course. No problem. Without even trying, really. Needless to say, he no longer takes the lessons, nor does he allow his old friend over to the house anymore. Which is cool by me. I now have a new sparring partner with some extra time on his hands.

I’ve always had a vegetable herb garden whenever I come here. The only fruits I raise are Thai Dragons, Cayenne, and Bhut Jolokia. I raise the Bhut Jolokia mostly for novelty, as I am the only person I know who can actually eat them. For those who don’t know what is Bhut Jolokia, it is one of the hottest, if not the hottest, pepper in the world. The Ghost Pepper comes in at well over one million Scoville Heat Units. To give you an idea of just how hot that is, workers who harvest them must wear gloves when handling them and keep some aloe near by in case they get any on their skin. You can just imagine how hot things get when the pepper is ingested! To make a long story shorter, the boy got it in his head one day that he should like to try his hand at showing me up in gardening, too, which wouldn’t be hard; after all, I am not much of a “gardener”. I just do well with the few items I grow for my own entertainment and consumption. He had Auntie and a couple of hired hands move some large pots into place for him, filling them with rich, black dirt, and making them beautiful just for him to start his latest project in style. He told his Auntie he had interest in growing my ghost pepper, as he had seen me do it, but had no seed or seedling for the plant and did not know where to get it. His mother asked me to give him some seed and I simply didn’t have any to give, but, if he were willing to take a few minutes to meet with me outside, I’d be glad to show him how to cut open a couple of peppers, remove the seeds, and dry them for planting. He agreed and met me at the workbench, where, very carefully, and while wearing my gloves, I cut into a pepper and removed the seeds. He thought it simple enough a task, which it is, and eagerly reached for a pepper to cut. I reminded him to be sure to put on his gloves before handling the pepper and also the knife, which was likely tainted with the pepper as well. He said, “I eat hot foods all the time. I will be OK.”

“Okey-dokey”. Said I.

He followed my instructions and succeeded in removing the seeds and setting them out to dry. At that, he decided it was time to go inside, take a shower and get ready for dinner.

He ran into the bathroom and removed all of his clothing and got into the shower. As he got himself wet and began to soap up, he rubbed the lather all over himself with his hands, starting with his hair, his head and face, and all the way down to his heiny-hole. It was about that time that he realized something was very wrong.

Water doesn’t do anything to help stop the burn from hot peppers. All it does is spread it around. The soap apparently won’t do anything to stop it either, because it wasn’t long after he had soaped himself up that he let out a scream quite unlike anything I had ever heard come out of anyone before.

We found him standing in the the shower, naked, soap smeared all over his body, his hands and arms sticking out in front of him, and he was scared to death and screaming like a stuck pig, shaking, his eyes slammed shut, and he was afraid to move a muscle. The only thing that was moving on him besides the shaking were the muscles of his buttocks, as the ghost pepper scorched his arse and he tried in vain to wiggle his way out of it.

Mom and Auntie were screaming louder than he was when they arrived on the scene. They had no idea what was going on or what to do about it. I warned them not to touch him, as he had voluntarily covered himself with the ghost pepper and was now experiencing what it was like to be doused with gasoline and lit on fire. I told them there really wasn’t much that could be done for him, but rinse him off in the shower and get rid of all the soap, then stand or sit somewhere and try to make himself comfortable until the burn goes away. I advised them that no harm would come to their boy. He would be fine in a long while, after the initial pain had subsided, and then he would just have to sit there and sweat while the rest of the pepper took its course. I could have mentioned a few tricks that would help make him a little more comfortable, but I just wasn’t in the mood. Next day, he was just fine.

The other day, Auntie bought a lottery ticket for him. He was told he could keep all his winnings, should there be any, and he would not have to split with her or anyone else. As things turned out, he read the ticket wrong and thought he had won ten million baht. He flipped out and called all his friends, called his girlfriend, and basically made an ass of himself, rubbing his terd in everyone’s face, per usual. I saw him sitting at a table outdoors as I was coming in from one of my hiking adventures, and he was holding a piece of paper in his hand and giving me another of his creepy little grins. I had no idea what it was all about, and so I ignored him and went into the house. That pissed him off. He had wanted me to ask. He followed me indoors and told me the good news. I said, “Well, congrats. Looks like your tuition is paid in full. Lucky you.” That he would have to use the money for something other than his own selfish pleasure had never occurred to him for even a second. Now, he was really, truly, visibly angry with me. But he held his tongue.

Hours later, I was passing through the yard and looked over to the other side where something appeared to be very, very wrong with the boy. His mother and his auntie were vigorously trying to console him, for what reason I did not know. I thought he had been hurt, they way they were carrying on. I rushed over to see what was the matter and to see if I could lend a hand.

As things turned out, he had read his lottery ticket wrong and had not won ten million baht, but had won only ten thousand baht. He was bawling and practically inconsolable. His main concern was how he was going to save his face from all his friends to whom he had been bragging. We all knew the answer to that question, but I was the only one willing to face it.

After things toned down a bit, I interrupted the butt-kissing session and scolded all three of them at the same time. I accused my wife and her sister for being stupid enough to teach the young fellow about gambling in the first place, let alone teaching him to hang his hopes on some lotto ticket or some dumb animal’s race. I told the boy he was still lucky to have won anything at all, and that the money, though it was only a small amount, would still be used for school. “Better than nothing.” Said I, flatly. This of course made the boy absolutely furious! He stood up from his chair and shook with rage, staring at me, balling up his fists, looking like he was getting ready to charge. I looked at him quizzically for a moment, thinking to myself, is he actually stupid enough to try that? He wasn’t. And I walked off, chuckling to myself.

“Too narrow safety margins” indeed.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Rooo
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[tim armstrong]

Some years ago when I first walked down Sukkumvit in Bangkok I was horrified to see some guy up among the nest of electricity wires above the sidewalk near our hotel. Now 13 years later I hardly notice the same thing anymore. I do still cringe, but somehow you become desensitized.

[sms747]

One of the most popular topics,on TV.Forum.

Lets slag off Thai driving.

No doubt you are all perfect,drivers.

I think not,particularly the coffin dodger Foreigners,that insist on operating motorized vehicles.

Unfortunately the very high death rates on the roads here along with the almost non existing driving test are topics that should be criticised, over and over until hopefully somebody takes notice. They should start by introducing a realistic driving test on the road and not in a car park, introducing learner licences and make learners use L plates.There should be a written test on road safety along with the on road test that includes parking. Anyone found using a bike with no helmet should be banned for at least a year, anyone driving without a licence or insurance should be banned for a lot longer.

It's no excuse just saying well people get killed on the roads in the west, they do but the rate here is ten times higher.

Edited March 18, 2014 by sms747

[kimbathewhitelion]

This entire question of yours is wrong on many counts, the most obvious one being the fact that your safety is your responsibility. You have to look out for yourself. It is quite dangerous to assume that others are going to look out for you. They’re not. That being said, to answer your question, yes, the Thai do have “narrow safety margins”.

My wife, born and raised in Thailand and never leaving it for for the first forty years of her life, lived with me in America for nine plus years and loved every minute of it. We lived in Las Vegas. Las Vegas has the highest vehicle accident rate in America, some of the worst roads in America, and has some of the the worst drivers you have ever seen in your life. My wife, when she started driving in Las Vegas, was extremely well pleased with the roads, the “smoothest and best” she’d ever driven on, and was also well pleased with the habits and manners of the other drivers. Of course, I had no idea what she was talking about until I came to Thailand for the first time and took the road from the airport to our province.

“Narrow safety margins” indeed.

Let’s take the elevator for another example. The folks getting on the elevator crowd in front of the door like lemmings, and when it opens, there is always this comical, confused clash of bodies going this way and that when those on the elevator are getting off ram into those who are already packed into the elevator, like lemmings.

The elevators are always packed like lemmings. No one ever waits for another elevator unless and until they are certain it is packed with no available space whatsoever.

No one ever stops to think that it is only in their best interest to stand out of the way of the door of the elevator when it opens to let others off so they can get on. No one ever stops to think that this simple method will be faster and easier for all concerned. Often that which we westerners perceive as greed, selfishness, and the cult of “ME! ME! ME!” here in Thailand, is merely unthinking carelessness and stupidity.

On the other hand, it often is the cult of “ME! ME! ME!” at work. Let’s take for example, my step-son. He’s a good boy, don’t get me wrong, but he, like so many, many, many other Thai men are, quite simply, spoiled lazy. And that’s just all that there is to it. Why this is done to the men of this country is beyond me, but that’s just another one of those things that is what it is and I cannot tell what is to be done about it. I mean, I have always been self-reliant and self-sufficient. I got my first job after school at age nine, delivering newspapers on not just one, but three routes, often working into the evening, well past supper. At age 12, my parents had had enough of city life and moved us out to a big hobby farm in a rural area, where I was often trailing loosed cattle and horses, alone, at all hours of the night, after they had broken down a fence and ran off. And I did all that before school. You get the idea. We were made to think and to do for ourselves, and to think generously of others along the way.

Here in Thailand, the men are encouraged to sit on their asses, thinking of absolutely no one but themselves, playing video games and taking creature comforts all the days of their lives, it seems. I will never understand this as long as I live. I mean, have they no self-respect? No ambition? No sense of adventure? No plan? No goals? For many of them, it does seem to be so.

On my step-son’s first visit to America, coming home from the airport, my wife was trying to move baggage from the trunk of my car to the front door of the house. He, of course, seventeen years old, got out of the car and walked to the front door empty-handed, save for his iPhone. My wife tripped and fell against the concrete steps in front of the door. Thankfully, she wasn’t hurt, but badly scared and shook up from the incident. Her beloved son just stood there and watched the entire incident without flinching. He just stood there and watched his mother writhing on the sidewalk, trying to get herself up. He was completely unperturbed, downright serene, in fact. I was flabbergasted at his reaction, or non-reaction, depending on how you want to look at it. I ran to see that my wife was all right and helped her up. The boy just stood there in his pink T-shirt and started noodling on his iPhone. I looked straight at him. He looked back at me, as if to say, “What?” I reached over and took the iPhone out of his hand and said, “There are plenty of bags left in the car that need to be brought in, namely, yours. Get to it.” He looked at me, quite shocked. He had never seen such a look on my face before or such a tone in my voice. I had never interfered with the relationship between him and his mother before. This was a first for all concerned. The look scared him, and he knew instinctively not to do anything other than exactly what I told him in that moment. The boy is a brainiac. He does remarkably well in school with his books and tests, leaving most others in the dust, and that’s without any homework or practice. At everything else he tries, besides his video games, he is hopelessly inept. This type of person is almost always obedient to the death, especially toward “authority”. I sounded like “authority” in that instant, and he always acknowledges and bows to “authority” at the drop of a hat. I had no idea until that moment, after all this time I’d known him, how easy it was to make him do pretty much whatever I want him to do. Fortunately for him, that’s not my style, not my way of doing things, unless absolutely necessary.

He reluctantly went to the car and dragged his belongings into the doorway, leaving the trunk of my car wide open, leaving the front door of the house wide open, plopping down on a chair in the front room, and starting in on his iPhone again. “Come on, I’ll show you to your room.”

“Huh?” He said, looking at me, as if to say, “I do not wish to be disturbed right now.” But again, he was scared and knew better than to try and defy me. After I showed him his room, I said, “After you come in from outside locking up the car you left open and the front door you left open, you may carry your bags into this room and take a shower and get ready to go out for some dinner, if you want any.” He stopped for a moment in the hallway and stared after me in disbelief. No one had ever talked to him like that before, ever, in his entire life. He was seventeen at that time. Lucky for him, he did what he was told.

Welcome to America, Boy. You’re in for a few more surprises. Get ready.

His first stay in America was very brief. It was only for the purpose of fulfilling an immigration requirement. Needless to say, he stuck very close to his mother the entire visit. He didn’t want anything to do with any of my activities, e.g., shooting shotguns, riding bicycles, martial arts, hiking in the mountains, etc. He preferred the tranquility of my living room and being by his mother’s side and getting waited on.

His second visit came a while later, again for the purpose of fulfilling an immigration requirement. Only this time, I had to fetch him from the airport personally and he was alone.

He got with the program immediately and with no help or encouragement from me. He followed all my instructions to the letter on how to run the washing machine, how to wash his own dirty dishes, how to cook his meals, how to keep his bathroom spiffy, among other chores he had never done before in his life. He wasn’t upset that I made him do his own chores. He was grateful that I didn’t make him do mine as well.

Sore Winner Sore Loser

To pass some of our time together, I showed him the games of Monopoly, chess, checkers, and a few others he’d never tried before. This was a big mistake on my part, for the boy could not lose without getting extremely angry, nor could he win without trying to rub it in someone’s face. Anything less than getting his ass kissed was considered an affront to him and his serenity and perfection. No one wanted to play with him. I put the games away and that was that. Again, his stay was brief, and he was glad to get home to mama.

Here we are in Thailand a few years later. He’s still living at home, playing video games. No improvement there at all. But he is great in his school work and was accepted at a good business college in Bangkok. Yep, you guessed it, when he goes off to school soon, he will be taking, not his busy, hardworking mother with him, but his doting Auntie, who deprives him of absolutely nothing, no matter how ridiculous the order. She will be staying with him near his dorm until he “gets settled in”. Yikes. She could never have any children of her own, so her fondness for the lad is understandable, I suppose.

He likes to try and do everything I (and others) do. He simply must show everyone up and prove that he is better than everyone. He isn’t, but it’s kinda cute watching him try. When I went out and bought a new laptop and brought it into the house and set to my work, he had Auntie take him out to get a new laptop. He brought it home and set it up, staring over at me the entire time, then finally asked how much I had spent on mine. When I told him, he grinned and said he had spent a lot more. The laptop has been sitting there ever since. He has no use for it. It was bought just to try and show me up.

When his fat friend stopped eating like a horse, lost weight, and started taking Muay Thai boxing lessons and getting himself into fine physical condition, he tried to do the same, but couldn’t discipline himself enough to do the exercises. When he saw his friend sparring with another student, he wanted to jump in there immediately and give it a try. When he was told he wasn’t ready for sparring, he said, pointing to his friend and laughing, “If he can do it--I can sure do it!” At that, they let him gear up. His friend whopped his butt of course. No problem. Without even trying, really. Needless to say, he no longer takes the lessons, nor does he allow his old friend over to the house anymore. Which is cool by me. I now have a new sparring partner with some extra time on his hands.

I’ve always had a vegetable herb garden whenever I come here. The only fruits I raise are Thai Dragons, Cayenne, and Bhut Jolokia. I raise the Bhut Jolokia mostly for novelty, as I am the only person I know who can actually eat them. For those who don’t know what is Bhut Jolokia, it is one of the hottest, if not the hottest, pepper in the world. The Ghost Pepper comes in at well over one million Scoville Heat Units. To give you an idea of just how hot that is, workers who harvest them must wear gloves when handling them and keep some aloe near by in case they get any on their skin. You can just imagine how hot things get when the pepper is ingested! To make a long story shorter, the boy got it in his head one day that he should like to try his hand at showing me up in gardening, too, which wouldn’t be hard; after all, I am not much of a “gardener”. I just do well with the few items I grow for my own entertainment and consumption. He had Auntie and a couple of hired hands move some large pots into place for him, filling them with rich, black dirt, and making them beautiful just for him to start his latest project in style. He told his Auntie he had interest in growing my ghost pepper, as he had seen me do it, but had no seed or seedling for the plant and did not know where to get it. His mother asked me to give him some seed and I simply didn’t have any to give, but, if he were willing to take a few minutes to meet with me outside, I’d be glad to show him how to cut open a couple of peppers, remove the seeds, and dry them for planting. He agreed and met me at the workbench, where, very carefully, and while wearing my gloves, I cut into a pepper and removed the seeds. He thought it simple enough a task, which it is, and eagerly reached for a pepper to cut. I reminded him to be sure to put on his gloves before handling the pepper and also the knife, which was likely tainted with the pepper as well. He said, “I eat hot foods all the time. I will be OK.”

“Okey-dokey”. Said I.

He followed my instructions and succeeded in removing the seeds and setting them out to dry. At that, he decided it was time to go inside, take a shower and get ready for dinner.

He ran into the bathroom and removed all of his clothing and got into the shower. As he got himself wet and began to soap up, he rubbed the lather all over himself with his hands, starting with his hair, his head and face, and all the way down to his heiny-hole. It was about that time that he realized something was very wrong.

Water doesn’t do anything to help stop the burn from hot peppers. All it does is spread it around. The soap apparently won’t do anything to stop it either, because it wasn’t long after he had soaped himself up that he let out a scream quite unlike anything I had ever heard come out of anyone before.

We found him standing in the the shower, naked, soap smeared all over his body, his hands and arms sticking out in front of him, and he was scared to death and screaming like a stuck pig, shaking, his eyes slammed shut, and he was afraid to move a muscle. The only thing that was moving on him besides the shaking were the muscles of his buttocks, as the ghost pepper scorched his arse and he tried in vain to wiggle his way out of it.

Mom and Auntie were screaming louder than he was when they arrived on the scene. They had no idea what was going on or what to do about it. I warned them not to touch him, as he had voluntarily covered himself with the ghost pepper and was now experiencing what it was like to be doused with gasoline and lit on fire. I told them there really wasn’t much that could be done for him, but rinse him off in the shower and get rid of all the soap, then stand or sit somewhere and try to make himself comfortable until the burn goes away. I advised them that no harm would come to their boy. He would be fine in a long while, after the initial pain had subsided, and then he would just have to sit there and sweat while the rest of the pepper took its course. I could have mentioned a few tricks that would help make him a little more comfortable, but I just wasn’t in the mood. Next day, he was just fine.

The other day, Auntie bought a lottery ticket for him. He was told he could keep all his winnings, should there be any, and he would not have to split with her or anyone else. As things turned out, he read the ticket wrong and thought he had won ten million baht. He flipped out and called all his friends, called his girlfriend, and basically made an ass of himself, rubbing his terd in everyone’s face, per usual. I saw him sitting at a table outdoors as I was coming in from one of my hiking adventures, and he was holding a piece of paper in his hand and giving me another of his creepy little grins. I had no idea what it was all about, and so I ignored him and went into the house. That pissed him off. He had wanted me to ask. He followed me indoors and told me the good news. I said, “Well, congrats. Looks like your tuition is paid in full. Lucky you.” That he would have to use the money for something other than his own selfish pleasure had never occurred to him for even a second. Now, he was really, truly, visibly angry with me. But he held his tongue.

Hours later, I was passing through the yard and looked over to the other side where something appeared to be very, very wrong with the boy. His mother and his auntie were vigorously trying to console him, for what reason I did not know. I thought he had been hurt, they way they were carrying on. I rushed over to see what was the matter and to see if I could lend a hand.

As things turned out, he had read his lottery ticket wrong and had not won ten million baht, but had won only ten thousand baht. He was bawling and practically inconsolable. His main concern was how he was going to save his face from all his friends to whom he had been bragging. We all knew the answer to that question, but I was the only one willing to face it.

After things toned down a bit, I interrupted the butt-kissing session and scolded all three of them at the same time. I accused my wife and her sister for being stupid enough to teach the young fellow about gambling in the first place, let alone teaching him to hang his hopes on some lotto ticket or some dumb animal’s race. I told the boy he was still lucky to have won anything at all, and that the money, though it was only a small amount, would still be used for school. “Better than nothing.” Said I, flatly. This of course made the boy absolutely furious! He stood up from his chair and shook with rage, staring at me, balling up his fists, looking like he was getting ready to charge. I looked at him quizzically for a moment, thinking to myself, is he actually stupid enough to try that? He wasn’t. And I walked off, chuckling to myself.

“Too narrow safety margins” indeed.

Did anybody read this novel? Is there a synopsis version say in 30 words or less. You should run for the US Congress, writing Bills which no one will read.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited March 18, 2014 by Rooo

[10Yen]

Today, I was in a bar in Pattaya, nearly every Farang that was there was drunk by 18.00 Hours, and nearly every Farang had a car or a Motorcycle, guess what?

They drove home !

I got a Motorcycle Taxi.

But we can't have that on ThaiVisa can we, Farangs can't feel superior when faced with reality.

Boo for Thais, Hooray for Farangs, whatever Thais do is wrong, whatever farangs do is right.

The fact that they drive pizzed outta their heads does not matter, it's when the Thais do it, that's what matters.

Edited March 18, 2014 by 10Yen

[techboy]

I have not noticed the unusual lack of safety margin which you speak of. Contrary to what you suggest I find pedestrians even in Bangkok to be at least as courteous as Westerners and other Asian countries. Drivers can be kind of wild here but nothing unusual for Asia or (OMG!)a Latin country. Density of pedestrian or vehicular traffic and time of day affect the mentality of "safety margin" here as anyplace else. A good guess is that you recently got your feathers ruffled over a small incident. You are merely soliciting a round of Thai bashing. Sorry I have no stories with which to gratify you.

You seem to think that the phenomenon of which I speak is one of being discourteous. It may be I don't know but I don't assume it usually is. I also find pedestrians on the whole courteous in Thailand. Maybe I am not getting my message across. I am talking about reaction times to other people nearby - a purely instinctive thing. It's not Thai bashing and your comment is reverse knee-jerk farang bashing as far as I can make out, although much of it is not rational. If no-one else finds the same thing then it's a damp squib. It's just an observation of mine. If we can't discuss the idiosyncracis of other races/nationalities without it being called 'bashing' then it is PC gone mad.

Okay. I just read your post again and am able to understand as you say it was intended but still no knee jerk on my part. It still reads more like "fishin' for some bitchin." Regarding my post it was extraordinary rational. It explained what you construe as some sort of a Thai phenomenon as being 1)Common in many countries and 2) A function of pedestrian or vehicular congestion- with time of day being a factor (you know like rush hours when peoples heads are somewhere else). On a less confrontational note: "PC gone mad?" Love it! And I shall certainly take that under advisory---

[partington]

Card, on 17 Mar 2014 - 18:39, said:

wilcopops, on 17 Mar 2014 - 18:28, said:

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

Contrary to what some say, that is, some of us feel we are superior, I have had the feeling that it is the Thais that feel they are superior and expect others to move out of their way, to the point where sometimes I will stop, and the buggers will bump into me, this while looking at me.

I do this too! I literally stop dead, look at them, and they still walk straight into me, a stationary object! I spent the first 3 months living here baffled and annoyed by this, then accepted, if I'm going to live here, I must acknowledge that Thais don't try to avoid bumping into people in the street.

Once I had fully understood that, my irritation vanished. But not to the point where I had to pretend to myself that it wasn't really happening. it was, and is. Thais walk into you when there is no reason to do so. There it is...

[10Yen]

We know best in the USA, yeah right, 30 thousand + killed every year on the roads and , 1.4 million arrested for DUI.

And you people slag off Thailand ?

It's a joke.

Edited March 18, 2014 by 10Yen

[Fookhaht]

After a recent trip from Khon Kaen to Udon Thani in a van, where he followed many vehicles at less than 2 meters distance at a speed of 130+ kilometers per hour-- I certainly agree with you.

And the evidence is found in my wet shorts.

[10Yen]

After a recent trip from Khon Kaen to Udon Thani in a van, where he followed many vehicles at less than 2 meters distance at a speed of 130+ kilometers per hour-- I certainly agree with you.

And the evidence is found in my wet shorts.

After 24 years here, I find it ok, then again..I wasn't too old to adapt !

Edited March 18, 2014 by 10Yen