Do Thais have too narrow safety margins?

[Card]

When driving on the roads in Thailand and when walking on the street, I notice how razor thin are the safety margins that Thais work in.

Take for example walking on the street - I can be walking down and no-one moves out of the way of me or others until way past the time someone in the West would start to take avoiding action, even when the unspoken 'right of way' should be yours. I usually am the one to avoid a nudge but sometimes I get fed up of it and just barge forwards, knocking the person and not even looking back as I know it is they who should have tried to avoid the contact as well as myself.

Likewise when driving on Thai roads, you can see many situations all the time where there is an unnecessarily small distance maintained between vehicles (eg. 2 or more cars tailgating). I assume this is because Thais do not see what would happen if the vehicle in front had to make an emergency stop. Thais seem to think that if they don't see a reason for an emergency stop, then one will simply cannot happen.

Anyone give examples of the razor thin safety margins that Thais work in?

[wilcopops]

ALL people are incredibly bad at risk assessment. But in the west we have had several decades, centuries even, of learning to accept risk assessments done by others - usually governments who employ scientists to do this. In emerging economies like Thailand this process is in it's infancy so things that "we" consider go without saying in reality don't....they have to be taught/learned.

[Sigurris]

There is a theory that Asians (not just Thai's) have a different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle. Therefore people will stand 2 abreast on escalators without regard to the people behind them. For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues. Add to this the Buddhist belief that you will be reborn and everyone has a preordained time to die and the facts speak for themselves. When you add this to the mix of almost zero health and safety regulations (or at least H&S res that are followed) and its a dangerous place to live.

Next door to me is a building site with all the H&S signs forbidding workers on site without helmets and safety boots etc etc. The other day I counted (on 25 workers) three safety helmets, no safety boots and a welder without any eye protection.

[CharlieH]

It doesnt exist, they have absolutely no spacial awareness and consideration of others is a complete mystery.

Judge the speed of on coming traffic, no chance, enough time to overtake, in your dreams, traffic lights, only if they like the color. How many on a motorcycle, as many as I need. Drunk driving, so what, kill someone with the car, pay the family off.

I think you get the picture, but, thats how it is, thats Thai freedom, thats why many like it here too, the relaxed "mai pen rai" attitude to almost everything.Live and let live, its only a problem if you make it one, and becareful if you do as you may not live to regret it.

In many ways you are not in the Far East, you are very much in the "wild west"

Edited March 17, 2014 by CharlieH

[wilcopops]

There is a theory that Asians (not just Thai's) have a different perception of personal space and regard for people outside their immediate circle. Therefore people will stand 2 abreast on escalators without regard to the people behind them. For in their perception they don't know these people therefore they don't exist. This can extrapolated to safety issues. Add to this the Buddhist belief that you will be reborn and everyone has a preordained time to die and the facts speak for themselves. When you add this to the mix of almost zero health and safety regulations (or at least H&S res that are followed) and its a dangerous place to live.

Next door to me is a building site with all the H&S signs forbidding workers on site without helmets and safety boots etc etc. The other day I counted (on 25 workers) three safety helmets, no safety boots and a welder without any eye protection.

No there isn't.

[wilcopops]

"they" - harken to the racists!

[wilcopops]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

[sam sen]

put simply thai's just dont pay attention to what's going on around them. i've worked and travelled in many asian countries and appear unique in this respect.

i travel to many big busy cities but only in bangkok do people consistently walk into me and step in front of me as if i'm invisible.

i lived and wokred in ulambatur in mongolia the locals drive their cars as they ride their horses. its chaos on the roads.

[10Yen]

So the thousands that are killed on the Roads in western countries are what, just accidents, and those that are killed in Thailand, just stupidity ?

ThaiVisa at it's unbelievably finest.

[Card]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Card

[Hedghog]

One of the most popular topics,on TV.Forum.

Lets slag off Thai driving.

No doubt you are all perfect,drivers.

I think not,particularly the coffin dodger Foreigners,that insist on operating motorized vehicles.

[wilcopops]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

THerer is always someone who seems to unwittingly give a wonderful example of what I was talking about.

[Showbags]

Narrow margin ??

Have you seen how wide they have to go to pass a motorbike or another car ??

[kurnell]

Show me a car in Bangkok that does not have a scratch from a close encounter with a motorbike. Says it all.

[Card]

Show me a car in Bangkok that does not have a scratch from a close encounter with a motorbike. Says it all.

Yes, and show me a young Thai guy who doesn't have some kind of scar on his legs and knees from clashes on a motorbike or bicycle..

Edited March 17, 2014 by Card

[Card]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

THerer is always someone who seems to unwittingly give a wonderful example of what I was talking about.

Come again, what were you talking about?

[ChrisB87]

My missus explains, "Thais don't make a plan".

[wym]

Show me a car in Bangkok that does not have a scratch from a close encounter with a motorbike. Says it all.

Yes, and show me a young Thai guy who doesn't have some kind of scar on his legs and knees from clashes on a motorbike or bicycle..

Girls just as much. Damaged goods but not in the worst way. . .

[wilcopops]

Show me a car in Bangkok that does not have a scratch from a close encounter with a motorbike. Says it all.

u are saying that Bangkok is almost a bad as Rome....well maybe......

[StreetCowboy]

 

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

 

So do you have an alternative explanation for the evidence on which the OP's opinion was founded?

SC

[IMA_FARANG]

ALL people are incredibly bad at risk assessment. But in the west we have had several decades, centuries even, of learning to accept risk assessments done by others - usually governments who employ scientists to do this. In emerging economies like Thailand this process is in it's infancy so things that "we" consider go without saying in reality don't....they have to be taught/learned.

------------------

It's a cultural thing.

Thais have lived, as many Asians have, in crowded streets for many years (even centuries).

Have you ever been to Greece, in the old market areas of Athens or other Greek cities?

Or visit Istanbul. and see the old market areas there.

Barely enough room for two people to move about and to pass each other.

A lot of the crowded Asian cities used to be like that, and less than a century ago.

Now, if you go back to the 19th century, that was also the norm in many European cities.

The modern open city with wide roads and pavements/sidewalks is a new idea ..... only a century old at best.

It takes time for humans to adjust their "customs" ("customs" as in 'cultural norms") take time to change.

For many Americans, Europeans seem to stand to close to them in a crowd.

It is disconcerting to many Americans when other nationalities stand to close, or sit at their table in a crowded restaurant.

Cultural differences in the concept of "my personal space".

For many non British, the British seem to be obsessed with this "queue" thing.... another cultural perception that is a learned response to their upbringing.

As the Jimmy Buffet song says, "Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes".

[smileydude]

Thai's are more space efficient. Every nook and cranny on the road must be filled.

They will move out of your way though if you haven't bathed in a while.

[seajae]

I actually think a lot of it is based purely on the fact that they cannot do more than one thing at a time, ie, not capable of multi tasking. I know with my wife, if I interupt her while she is doing something she loses the plot, driving she will totally miss the turn she should make or narrowly miss a car because I have disturbed her concentration by talking to her. Most thais seem to suffer this, they concentrate on one task and cannot think of anything else or they stuff up. Walking, riding, driving, they can only see where they are going anything else is just blocked out, be it looking for other cars before turning/pulling out etc, it just does not compute. When walking they watch where they are going and not anyone else that is around them, they are blocked out and this is why they continually hit each other, if they stop to think about what is happening around them they will get turned around and have to try to sort out what they were doing before it happened. All you need do is watch perople to see it, they concentrate purely on one thing at a time and everything else is simply out of focus to them.

[Card]

ALL people are incredibly bad at risk assessment. But in the west we have had several decades, centuries even, of learning to accept risk assessments done by others - usually governments who employ scientists to do this. In emerging economies like Thailand this process is in it's infancy so things that "we" consider go without saying in reality don't....they have to be taught/learned.

Sorry, but this is not about learning risk assessments, it is about simple instinct or reaction times, unless it is done delibretly, which I doubt.

[lucifer666]

From my 8 years of expreience here. I can honestly say that the word " Safety" , cannot be in the Thai vocabulary. ( or maybe it has another meaning) lol. Bad Driving, Lethal, Electric Wiring. Builders in Hi Rise Building ( no safety nets), Once had a window washer in my BKK hotel room ( 24 floors up) and he just stood on the outside of the window ledge to clean my windows, ( I was praying that his sandals, had a Non Slip sole . No harness or any safety device whatsoever.

EDIT, The window washer had already consumed half a bottle of ( Leaw Keaw) before he got to my room

I'm afraid of heights anyway, and after watching him, I needed several stiff whiskys just to calm my nerves. Pleased believe, I'm not Thai bashing, i have also seen similar behaviour in Nigeria, Spain, Canaries, Malta, and the Phills. I did once consider that maybe our Western way's are (Over Obsessed ), with safety rules. Because we Westerner's, still seem to have as many ( accidental) deaths ??) as any other country. Strangely, they are not published online as often as they seem to be in Non Western countries.

Just my observations

Edited March 18, 2014 by lucifer666

[NoshowJones]

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

So I assume you have not experienced anything like what I describe. How long have you been living in Thailand wearing blinkers? Perhaps other posters would not subscribe to the fact that I have latent intelligence. Maybe it's not latent. Who knows?

BTW, I have not assumed that the points I raised means that Thais are somehow inferior. It's just that I observe such incidents all the time. The regular incidents involving having to avoid people on the street, without it being reciprocated, is usually restricted to young women. I have no idea why and have not the least bit of judgment if it is a bad or good thing. It may have survival attributes! My Thai partner experiences similar things and he says it's because they know that people will move out of the way eventually. The road behaviour speaks for itself in the road accident and death statistics, so there is no need for judgement on my behalf, is there?

I

I just walk through them if they walk acoss me. Then I say som nam na.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Card]

I actually think a lot of it is based purely on the fact that they cannot do more than one thing at a time, ie, not capable of multi tasking. I know with my wife, if I interupt her while she is doing something she loses the plot, driving she will totally miss the turn she should make or narrowly miss a car because I have disturbed her concentration by talking to her. Most thais seem to suffer this, they concentrate on one task and cannot think of anything else or they stuff up. Walking, riding, driving, they can only see where they are going anything else is just blocked out, be it looking for other cars before turning/pulling out etc, it just does not compute. When walking they watch where they are going and not anyone else that is around them, they are blocked out and this is why they continually hit each other, if they stop to think about what is happening around them they will get turned around and have to try to sort out what they were doing before it happened. All you need do is watch perople to see it, they concentrate purely on one thing at a time and everything else is simply out of focus to them.

I don't entirely agree with this. In my experience, Thais walking in crowds do usually manage to avoid nudging each other but they just take avoiding action much later than I or other Westerners seem to do. That's why I usually end up being the one that takes avoiding action first. It's a purely 'safety' margin thing, not an alternative action thing. If I grit my teeth and carry on, they usually end up seamlessly avoiding me, but by that time, I am way past the edges of my safety zone. I actually find it fascinating. It's the same with getting past a hold up, say in a market. I join the end of the holdup but there is always a Thai who manages to seamlessly get past me without the slightest bit of effort and then fills any minute space available, without even so much as a nudge. Maybe it's my reaction time that's slow, so I have adapted to react earlier and later, depending on the situatiion.

What I need to know is if other posters have found the same thing or are they just analysing what I experience.,

Edited March 18, 2014 by Card

[recycler]

What is safety?

[Card]

ALL people are incredibly bad at risk assessment. But in the west we have had several decades, centuries even, of learning to accept risk assessments done by others - usually governments who employ scientists to do this. In emerging economies like Thailand this process is in it's infancy so things that "we" consider go without saying in reality don't....they have to be taught/learned.

------------------

It's a cultural thing.

Thais have lived, as many Asians have, in crowded streets for many years (even centuries).

Have you ever been to Greece, in the old market areas of Athens or other Greek cities?

Or visit Istanbul. and see the old market areas there.

Barely enough room for two people to move about and to pass each other.

A lot of the crowded Asian cities used to be like that, and less than a century ago.

Now, if you go back to the 19th century, that was also the norm in many European cities.

The modern open city with wide roads and pavements/sidewalks is a new idea ..... only a century old at best.

It takes time for humans to adjust their "customs" ("customs" as in 'cultural norms") take time to change.

For many Americans, Europeans seem to stand to close to them in a crowd.

It is disconcerting to many Americans when other nationalities stand to close, or sit at their table in a crowded restaurant.

Cultural differences in the concept of "my personal space".

For many non British, the British seem to be obsessed with this "queue" thing.... another cultural perception that is a learned response to their upbringing.

As the Jimmy Buffet song says, "Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes".

This is about the best explanation so far, but what I want to know is 'do you have similar experiences in Thailand?'

[brit1984]

 

This thread is full of cockamamy theories which basically all denigrate Thai people and smugly infer that the poster is by dint of race superior in latent intelligence - only an idiot could subscribe to that concept.

 

So do you have an alternative explanation for the evidence on which the OP's opinion was founded?

SC

maybe all these "thais" we see doing crazy dangerous stuff are actually farangs in disguise...

....a really tight disguise