Thailand weighs suit against Singaporean organizers of ‘SONGKRAN’

[Fullstop]

Tourism officials are consulting with the government’s copyright office to determine whether to take legal action against the Singaporean organizers of next month’s “Celebrate Songkran” party.

There is no "copyright" on Songkran ... or Christmas ... or New Years Eve or.... (The Idiot of the Week award goes to.....)

Wilaiwan Tawichsri, a deputy governor with the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT), said today that should Singapore host a Songkran party every year, it could confuse and discourage tourists from attending Thailand, the festival’s home.

Not everyone is as thick as you Wilaiwan.

[freebyrd]

Best Western countries copyright Xmas then?.....and ensure that Jingle Bells can no longer be crucified into Jinger Ben?

[PeVee1st]

Just when I thought I had reached the absolute depth of illogical thinking in this country, along comes this one, what are Thais scared of, that everyone will suddenly pack up & go to Singapore for Songkran.

The same logic that applies to foreigners owning a plot of land in Thailand, we cannot take it with us when we leave!!!

On the positive, in Singapore the chances of being killed by some idiot tanked up on alcohol, drugs, etc.on the roads would be considerably lessened.

This statement is the usual childish way most Thais react (inc.government ministers) when they cannot deal with accepting anothers way, sue the pants off them!!!!

I will be accepting the usual Thai advice given to farlangs when we question their ways, I will be celebrating my Songkran in peace & quiet out of Thailand, I know you may say "so what or bah humbug", I do not care as I will be happy away from all this bu--shi-.

Many correspondents question the value of tourism to Thailand, well the extent to which they go about promoting every worldwide festival as being Thai, like Christmas in a Buddhist country, shows the tourist buck is highly prized.

I hope the Chinese sue them for hijacking Chinese New Year!!!!

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bigbamboo]

Official: No Plan To Sue Singapore Over Songkran

By Khaosod English

BANGKOK: -- Head of the Thai cultural watchdog has disputed reports which indicate that the Thai authorities are taking legal action against Singapore for organising the Thai traditional New Year festival.

Billed as the "Largest water festival celebration party in Singapore" and "The largest Songkran outside Thailand", the event be held on 12-13 April, featuring water-splashing fights and music performance.

According to information on its website, the event appears to be co-hosted by several private companies, without direct partnership with the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) or the Thai consulates - unlike Songkran celebrations in other overseas Thai communities, such as Australia and Hong Kong.

The news has received mixed reaction from the online community in Thailand. While many welcome the event as a proof that Songkran has become so successful and widely recognised by international audience that it was adopted by foreign organisers, others accused the Singaporeans of "stealing" the Thai tradition.

Debate intensified after several media agencies quoted Ms. Yupa Taweewattanakijbaworn, Director of the Culture Surveillance Bureau, as saying that her agency was considering a lawsuit against the island nation over the "unauthorised" celebration of Songkran Festival.

Ms. Yupa was also quoted as saying that the Singaporeans have "distorted" the tradition of Songkran by using it to solely promote tourism without paying tribute to the cultural roots behindthe festival.

The reports have baffled many observers, leading one prominent historian to comment on his Facebook page that it is incredible any Thai official would proclaim the ownership of Songkran since the tradition has been inherited from Thailand's neighbouring cultures, and it is still celebrated in the region beyond Thailand.

However, Ms. Yupa told Khaosod late yesterday that her agency, which operates under the Ministry of Culture, has no intention to file any lawsuit against Singapore.

"I never said anything like that," Ms. Yupa insisted, "Such reports have caused damage to me, and to the Ministry of Culture".

The director of Thai cultural watchdog claimed that she merely said in previous interviews that she postively views the Singaporean Songkran as good PR for Thai Songkran, and expressed her wish that the Singaporeans would "play Songkran correctly" in accordance to the Thai tradtion.

"It's a sensitive subject. I don't want to cause any disturbance to international relations," Ms. Yupa complained, adding that she's distraught to see her "misquotes" being amplified and "distorted" on the social network.

Other tourism officials have also downplayed any impact the Singaporean Songkran might cause to Thailand.

Minister of Tourism and Sports Somsak Pureesrisak said he is delighted to see Singaporeans adopting Songkran celebration, which he believes would help promote the tourism for both Thailand and Singapore, while Department of Cultural Promotion Director Chai Nakhonchai commented that Songkran has been a "shared tradition" among Southeast Asian nations for centuries.

Meanwhile, Mr. Somchart Pimthanapoonphon, chairman of Hatyai-Songkhla Hotel Association, dismissed concerns that the Singaporean Songkran would affect Thai tourism. He noted that Malaysian organisers have staged their own Songkran event in the past, yet it was not as "fun" as Thai Songkran, and foreign tourists still kept coming to enjoy the Thai festival.

"I think tourists will still prefer Songkran in Hat Yai." Mr. Somchart said, "Moreover, it's much cheaper here than Singapore".

However, Mr. Visoot Buachoom, director of Chiang Mai's chapter of the TAT, voiced his suspicion over the motives of the Singaporeans to organise their own Songkran festival.

"If you look at it in a negative way, you might have the idea that they are being opportunists, using their neighbour's culture for their own gain," Mr. Visoot said, "It's not appropriate, because it is a disrespect to the rights and unique identity of other cultures".

But Mr. Visoot also expressed his confidence that many foreign tourists will find Songkran in Thailand more attractive, due to the "orignality" and fun.

He estimated that 100,000 tourists will flood into Chiang Mai province during Songkran holidays, generating revenues over 1.2 billion baht.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1395287595

-- Khaosod English 2014-03-20

Most tourists would probably prefer Songkran in Hat Yai. The high end big spenders would prefer Songkran in Singapore though.

[Fullstop]

I hope the Chinese sue them for hijacking Chinese New Year!!!!

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Pssst. Most of the government, business's and big wigs in general in Thailand are .... Chinese!

[dominique355]

Tourism officials are consulting with the government’s copyright office to determine whether to take legal action against the Singaporean organizers of next month’s “Celebrate Songkran” party.

Thailand should really lodge a complaint with the United Nations over this .

One wonders if anyone in the government has even the slightes understanding of copyright and trademark law.

Oh and the UN has a special agency dealing with Intellectual Property Rights, that is WIPO in Geneva.

[sz1a]

They are so scared of losing their money and tourists.. Do they really believe people will start going to a nightclub in Singapore to celebrate instead of Thailand itself? Further, this is like seeking copyright for "Christmas" and suing other countries who celebrate Christmas too. Silly!

[ddavidovsky]

The Thais may have a case for trade-marking their version of Songkran when there is a commercial value attached to it. The problem is in the Singaporeans calling it Songkran. You can make Stilton cheese anywhere in the world, but you can't call it Stilton.

The word Songkran is Thai and relates, at root, to Thai religious traditions (never mind that has become 'corrupted' in recent years by an over-the-top party mentality - Thais like to have fun and that's part of their tradition - they know the fundamental spiritual meaning of it). It's pretty shitty of Singapore to co-opt Songkran for tourism boosting purposes. They must at least change the name.

It doesn't compare with Christmas in Thailand, as Christmas has never been a culturally-local phenomenon. Water-splashing festivals are commonplace, sure, but Songkran is Thai.

[unanimosity]

What moronic hypocrisy , coming out of country where the justice system depends on how big your pile of baths is!

Well, cleanliness is next to godliness.

[Fullstop]

One wonders if anyone in the government has even the slightes understanding of copyright and trademark law.

I don't wonder at all. The mountains of pirated and copied CDs, DVDs, Clothing, motorbike parts and several thousand other items is sure proof of it. "Thailand, the Land of Xerox"

What a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Love it.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Fullstop

[Jonmarleesco]

This display of TAT petulance might carry more weight were the Songkran festival in Thailand still seen in a traditional light. But it isn't, is it? A combination of commercialism - as ever - and water-and-ice throwing morons, including foreigners, long ago hijacked the traditional Thai Songkran. Knowing Singapore, I imagine their version will be much closer to it.

[unanimosity]

The Thais may have a case for trade-marking their version of Songkran when there is a commercial value attached to it. The problem is in the Singaporeans calling it Songkran. You can make Stilton cheese anywhere in the world, but you can't call it Stilton.

The word Songkran is Thai and relates, at root, to Thai religious traditions (never mind that has become 'corrupted' in recent years by an over-the-top party mentality - Thais like to have fun and that's part of their tradition - they know the fundamental spiritual meaning of it). It's pretty shitty of Singapore to co-opt Songkran for tourism boosting purposes. They must at least change the name.

It doesn't compare with Christmas in Thailand, as Christmas has never been a culturally-local phenomenon. Water-splashing festivals are commonplace, sure, but Songkran is Thai.

It is so important and so belonging to Thais that they trademarked a Songkran identity? Don't believe you can trademark a word.

It would appear that you are anti-competition. Do you ascribe to smarter better athletes backing off so losers don't cry?

You may be wrong about Christmas. History suggest that It indeed was a local phenomenon in Rome originally connected to celebrating the winter solstice. In the second century A.D. local Christians shifted the focus from honoring the sun to honoring the Son.

[Fullstop]

Water-splashing festivals are commonplace, sure, but Songkran is Thai.

The "word" is. Maybe Singapore should change it to "Songcrap".

[Fullstop]

So by the same token, they have stolen our Christmas, and New Year (celebrated in a lot of places), as well as Chinese New Year. Does that mean other countries can sue Thailand???

Only if they are as thick as Wilaiwan Tawichsri (Deputy Governor TAT).

Edited March 20, 2014 by metisdead
15) Do not make changes to quoted material that changes the intended meaning of the quoted post

[kimbathewhitelion]

Realize this is just about the "Thai" greed, the TAT is just worried about losing the tourist capital. And if this response is a dup of some else's than the more "cheers" to Singapore for enjoying their new festival.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[belg]

sad, but TIT & TAT

[Thai at Heart]

The Thais may have a case for trade-marking their version of Songkran when there is a commercial value attached to it. The problem is in the Singaporeans calling it Songkran. You can make Stilton cheese anywhere in the world, but you can't call it Stilton.

The word Songkran is Thai and relates, at root, to Thai religious traditions (never mind that has become 'corrupted' in recent years by an over-the-top party mentality - Thais like to have fun and that's part of their tradition - they know the fundamental spiritual meaning of it). It's pretty shitty of Singapore to co-opt Songkran for tourism boosting purposes. They must at least change the name.

It doesn't compare with Christmas in Thailand, as Christmas has never been a culturally-local phenomenon. Water-splashing festivals are commonplace, sure, but Songkran is Thai.

I think you will find that the root of the word Songkran is Pali, which is native to the Indian Subcontinent.

It is not a Thai word. And, no water throwing is not a uniquely Thai festival at all.

http://datelinebangkok.com/from-the-indian-holi-to-the-thai-songkran/

If you are wondering how did two similar festivals emerge in two cultures amidst different geographical settings, then the etymology of Songkran is an indicator. The word Songkran is derived from the Sanskrit word “Sankranti”, which means an astrological passage of the sun sign Aries. For a long time, Songkran has been celebrated as the New Year in Thailand and most Southeast Asian countries.

Songkran is believed to have originated in India, and the word Sankranti become Songkran. Holi is also celebrated in Burma (Myanmar), where it is still celebrated as a festival of colors. Gradually it moved to Siam, where the water and color mix gave way to a water festival. In Thailand, besides water, talcum is used to celebrate Songkran. In recent years, colors are being imported from India, and a section of revelers use colors along with water.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[getthaid]

And just to show Thailand is not a little baby in the playground:- in other world news.

Ireland tells Boston, New York - stop copying our St Patricks Day parade - or face legal action (and as by note - if you can make the Hudson green for one day of the year how come you cant have it blue the other 364?)

When asked why Ireland hadn't approached other countries threatening to sue (specifically Montserrat) The Irish Minister for shenanigans asked simply - why sue them - they don't have any money do they?

Scotland asks other nations to remove scotch broth and scotch eggs from menus while England and Brazil put copyrights on nuts and muffins.

Meanwhile A battle is set to waged between Ireland, England, Scotland and America for who owns the real cooked breakfast. This scene is set to make the Battle of the Somme look like a child's tea party. Or a Thai legal battle .......

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited March 20, 2014 by getthaid

[virtualtraveller]

I suppose they could also register copyright on Thai food and control that. And Ireland could sue Thailand for any St Patrick's day parties organised locally.

[robhufton]

And just to show Thailand is not a little baby in the playground:- in other world news.

Ireland tells Boston, New York - stop copying our St Patricks Day parade - or face legal action (and as by note - if you can make the Hudson green for one day of the year how come you cant have it blue the other 364?)

When asked why Ireland hadn't approached other countries threatening to sue (specifically Montserrat) The Irish Minister for shenanigans asked simply - why sue them - they don't have any money do they?

Scotland asks other nations to remove scotch broth and scotch eggs from menus while England and Brazil put copyrights on nuts and muffins.

Meanwhile A battle is set to waged between Ireland, England, Scotland and America for who owns the real cooked breakfast. This scene is set to make the Battle of the Somme look like a child's tea party. Or a Thai legal battle .......

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Brazil could also copyright pubic haircuts...

[ddavidovsky]

It is not a Thai word. And, no water throwing is not a uniquely Thai festival at all.

http://datelinebangkok.com/from-the-indian-holi-to-the-thai-songkran/

If you are wondering how did two similar festivals emerge in two cultures amidst different geographical settings, then the etymology of Songkran is an indicator. The word Songkran is derived from the Sanskrit word “Sankranti”, which means an astrological passage of the sun sign Aries. For a long time, Songkran has been celebrated as the New Year in Thailand and most Southeast Asian countries.

Songkran is believed to have originated in India, and the word Sankranti become Songkran. Holi is also celebrated in Burma (Myanmar), where it is still celebrated as a festival of colors. Gradually it moved to Siam, where the water and color mix gave way to a water festival. In Thailand, besides water, talcum is used to celebrate Songkran. In recent years, colors are being imported from India, and a section of revelers use colors along with water.

Songkran is a Thai word. Sankranti is a Sanskrit word. Let Singapore use Sankranti if they want, then it avoids the perception that they are dislocating a religious festival from its Thai meaning and artificially recreating it in frivolous manner for the sake of tourist dollars.

Actually, I didn't mean the root of the word, but the root of the (traditional) meaning - sorry for that ambiguity, but I didn't suppose anyone would think I was a Thai philologist.

Nor am I an IP lawyer, and I doubt it would be legally possible to trade-mark the work Songkran, but there is surely a moral case against Singapore using it, both for subverting its religious meaning, and in competing for tourist dollars by borrowing someone else's gloss.

To the person above who asked if I was anti-competition - well I guess so when it means preserving the integrity of traditions and cultures. Thais have surely gone overboard on celebrating Songkran, but that's their prerogative, it doesn't morally justify other countries in running bastardized versions of a specific foreign country's religious event for tourism purposes.

Let them have their water-splashing. They should just stop calling it Songkran.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ddavidovsky

[DirtFarmer]

The Thais may have a case for trade-marking their version of Songkran when there is a commercial value attached to it. The problem is in the Singaporeans calling it Songkran. You can make Stilton cheese anywhere in the world, but you can't call it Stilton.

The word Songkran is Thai and relates, at root, to Thai religious traditions (never mind that has become 'corrupted' in recent years by an over-the-top party mentality - Thais like to have fun and that's part of their tradition - they know the fundamental spiritual meaning of it). It's pretty shitty of Singapore to co-opt Songkran for tourism boosting purposes. They must at least change the name.

It doesn't compare with Christmas in Thailand, as Christmas has never been a culturally-local phenomenon. Water-splashing festivals are commonplace, sure, but Songkran is Thai.

Songkran

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Songkran is a term derived from the Sanskrit saṅkrānti (or, more specifically, meṣa saṅkrānti). It may refer to the traditional New Year celebrated in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries when the sun transits the constellation of Aries, the first astrological sign in the Zodiac, as reckoned by sidereal astrology:

• Cambodian New Year
• Songkran (Lao)
• Sinhalese New Year, in Sri Lanka
• Songkran (Thailand)
• Thingyan, in Myanmar

Similar New Year days:

• Eostre festival days, as given by Bede
• Lady Day, in olde England
• Nowruz, in modern Iran and neighboring countries
• Vernal Equinox Day, in modern Japan

Songkran can also refer to the traditional New Year celebrated by the Dai people of Yunnan, China, and by the Tai Dam people of Northern Vietnam. Easter weekend occasionally coincides with Songkran (in Thailand, most recently in 1979, 1990, and 2001, but not again until 2085.^[1])

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songkran

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When I thought it couldn't get any worse, Thailand really amazes me. Where in the hell do they get these people to run these departments.

They buy the posts so you know you are not going to get anyone with an IQ in 3 figures running ANY department. Just pathetic. As someone else said, I can't wait to see the result of an attempt to sue Singapore.

[ddavidovsky]

Songkran

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Songkran is a term derived from the Sanskrit saṅkrānti (or, more specifically, meṣa saṅkrānti). It may refer to the traditional New Year celebrated in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries when the sun transits the constellation of Aries, the first astrological sign in the Zodiac, as reckoned by sidereal astrology:

• Cambodian New Year
• Songkran (Lao)
• Sinhalese New Year, in Sri Lanka
• Songkran (Thailand)
• Thingyan, in Myanmar

The point is really that by using the word 'Songkran', Singapore is debasing another country's religious festival with a frivolous event. They are disassociating it from its traditional meaning. Thanks to your research I learn that Laos uses the same word (no surprise), as well as some ethnic minorities in China. They should be equally miffed at what Singapore is doing.

Thais (& Lao etc) understand the deeper meaning of Songkran; that underlies all the partying. Tourists in Singapore won't understand. To them it's just a game. Hence Singapore shouldn't use the word Songkran to describe it, out of deference. As somebody said, it is tantamount to the Disneyfication of someone else's tradition.

And apart from that, they are attracting tourist revenue using the lure of another culture's culture. That's crass.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ddavidovsky

[unanimosity]

Tourism officials are consulting with the government’s copyright office to determine whether to take legal action against the Singaporean organizers of next month’s “Celebrate Songkran” party.

Thailand should really lodge a complaint with the United Nations over this .

One wonders if anyone in the government has even the slightes understanding of copyright and trademark law.

Oh and the UN has a special agency dealing with Intellectual Property Rights, that is WIPO in Geneva.

Don't know about the gov, but the scribbler responsible for the OP appears not to understand copyrights and trademarks. How does one breach a copyright? Does the OP mean they want to sue for copyright infringement? How would they do that when you cannot copyright a word? Does the OP mean to suggest they want to sue for a trademark violation? How would they do that if they haven't registered a trademark and you cannot trademark words already in common use? If Thais were serious about Songkran, why is the domain celebratesongkran.com even available?

[unanimosity]

Songkran

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Songkran is a term derived from the Sanskrit saṅkrānti (or, more specifically, meṣa saṅkrānti). It may refer to the traditional New Year celebrated in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries when the sun transits the constellation of Aries, the first astrological sign in the Zodiac, as reckoned by sidereal astrology:

• Cambodian New Year
• Songkran (Lao)
• Sinhalese New Year, in Sri Lanka
• Songkran (Thailand)
• Thingyan, in Myanmar

The point is really that by using the word 'Songkran', Singapore is debasing another country's religious festival with a frivolous event. They are disassociating it from its traditional meaning. Thanks to your research I learn that Laos uses the same word (no surprise), as well as some ethnic minorities in China. They should be equally miffed at what Singapore is doing.

Thais (& Lao etc) understand the deeper meaning of Songkran; that underlies all the partying. Tourists in Singapore won't understand. To them it's just a game. Hence Singapore shouldn't use the word Songkran to describe it, out of deference. As somebody said, it is tantamount to the Disneyfication of someone else's tradition.

And apart from that, they are attracting tourist revenue using the lure of another culture's culture. That's crass.

Amen to the deeper meaning of Songkran. A quick survey of locals in the neighborhood shows that there is in fact deeper meaning, e.g., smearing white crap on faces and finding the biggest water barrels possible and a pickup truck.

[unanimosity]

sad, but TIT & TAT

There needs to be a movement to replace the 'A' in TAT because they aren't.

[pattayasnowman]

OK so with this thinking:

No more St Pattricks Day celebrations in Pattaya

No cinco de mayo

No ThanksGiving

And OH Right - No Christmas and Western New Year

[bangon04]

Yes Thailand can certainly teach Singapore a few things about respect for international copyright law and protection....

[mancub]

Songkran

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Songkran is a term derived from the Sanskrit saṅkrānti (or, more specifically, meṣa saṅkrānti). It may refer to the traditional New Year celebrated in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries when the sun transits the constellation of Aries, the first astrological sign in the Zodiac, as reckoned by sidereal astrology:

• Cambodian New Year
• Songkran (Lao)
• Sinhalese New Year, in Sri Lanka
• Songkran (Thailand)
• Thingyan, in Myanmar

The point is really that by using the word 'Songkran', Singapore is debasing another country's religious festival with a frivolous event. They are disassociating it from its traditional meaning. Thanks to your research I learn that Laos uses the same word (no surprise), as well as some ethnic minorities in China. They should be equally miffed at what Singapore is doing.

Thais (& Lao etc) understand the deeper meaning of Songkran; that underlies all the partying. Tourists in Singapore won't understand. To them it's just a game. Hence Singapore shouldn't use the word Songkran to describe it, out of deference. As somebody said, it is tantamount to the Disneyfication of someone else's tradition.

And apart from that, they are attracting tourist revenue using the lure of another culture's culture. That's crass.

Do you honestly believe that tourists in Bangkok, Pattaya or Phuket would gain a deeper understanding of the traditional meaning of Songkran ? Thailand has long ago turned this supposedly poignant festival into a mostly irreligious drunken carnival.