Thai Democrat Party threatens to boycott second election

[ikke]

Anything that is democratic will be boycotted by this monster Suthep , he is a fascist , a real Hitler look a like , makes up is speeches like Hitler did and the country will end up exactly as Germany back in the late 30 years .... But still many (not that much) brainless are following him.

Don't start telling that comparing with Hitler is not allowed or not on topic, as it is, you can see it every day when you see Suthep and look back on the web to the strategy of AH.

Please stop this guy before it's too late .

[northernjohn]

As is your prerogative...refuse to be a part of the thing your name embodies..."The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

Great! no surprise here... ( but not too smart I fear in the long run)...but ..Hey now you can start a new Party..The PRP Party... The Popcorn Reform Party...just be kind enough to not use Democratic again for it flies full in the face of what you are all about.. I had such high hopes for some kind of political outreach...six months ago when the rumblings began...some kind of build.... constructive build on what you found as weaknesses in the opposition...and you had a great opportunity.. to exploit it through political outreach, populist education and had you been concerned at all about reform... offered it then... and given the people you need to win an alternative...but instead you let a genie out of the bottle and it became enamored with its power of obstruction rather than construction...what a sham... lost faith in all parties here now...especially disappointed in the Democrats...but alas your claim to reform...that was and will never be the intention..as reform is the farthest thing from the Agenda.... same as it was last time around.....a paper tiger ...Democratic Reform...oxymoron...

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

Hey this is their system the one they use or misuse at will...not mine ... there is plenty wrong with all parties here...all of them... but you see... that is the problem... they are all facilitated by a problem that is way bigger than one or two elections... or even the political process if you will... their "brand of politics" is just that theirs... their brand of "Democracy" is just that.... theirs... and has never included any one else either ...they are mired in a disease which will take decades to recover from ( if at all) so for me or you to bandy about here and now ...change this party or change to that that is merely conjecture... it will be up to all Thais to decide personally through a look in the mirror as to what is acceptable and what isn't but if you still feel like pitting party vs party is a viable solution it reeks of the refusal to understand what you call blah blah blah.....you are missing a huge chunk of reality... to think that any corruption will be eradicated by Suthep or the Dems is misguided at best...reform because the ruling party changes...? is a poorly conceived notion...one rooted in a rather shallow view of a much bigger game... don't you get it at all...? Keep your eye on the obvious and focus on that and keep beating that horse and the masses will ignore the subliminal and don't be surprised when that reality smacks you in the face ... I don't support either faction...but now... again disappointed by the rather childish (again) refusal to take part in a system that they themselves have embraced and modified over the years.. they ( DEMS) know that their only play here now after all this is to continue to demonize their target... and implicitly support Sutheps brand of dogma in the hopes that they can find some self satisfaction in the end result... I repeat hopes... not sure they will ever get it... but can bet ya this... if the Dems get their military/judicial ushering back into power... and the trampling of the political process... the changes/reforms being lauded now.. will not be...nor will it be Democratic...not by a long shot...Cheers

It would help if you would stick to the problem at hand. It only becomes a party issue for the PTP they want to continue their crooked ways. There is no other party fighting them. It is the people of Thailand the grass roots people the Democrats have lent their strength to the people. They haven't had to do it with a hoard of thugs and talking about raising an army of 600,000 people to insure they get what they want regardless of what others want.

The Democrats have refused to sanction the corrupt system where as the PTP has their illegal military arm trying to enlist 600,000 soldiers in to their own personal army.

It is simply unbelievable the amount of people that comment on here and don't even know who the combatants are or what the one side wants. Listen to what the anti government people want not the guy on the bar stool next to you.

[Rich teacher]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

If they blatantly cheat and the courts are so fair, they would get banned wouldn't they? Unless you are WRONG!

[Morch]

Anything that is democratic will be boycotted by this monster Suthep , he is a fascist , a real Hitler look a like , makes up is speeches like Hitler did and the country will end up exactly as Germany back in the late 30 years .... But still many (not that much) brainless are following him.

Don't start telling that comparing with Hitler is not allowed or not on topic, as it is, you can see it every day when you see Suthep and look back on the web to the strategy of AH.

Please stop this guy before it's too late .

[northernjohn]

Lets say the Democrat party participates, and unlikely as it sounds, wins or at least wins enough votes to head a coalition.

Just wondering: how do you think the the PTP and/or the red shirts would react?

Given their attitude toward the EC, Courts etc...I'm not sure this will go down well. Especially not a scenario in which the PTP is the largest party, but the Democrats head a majority coalition.

Their only choice would be to accept it and from everything in their history one would expect that's exactly what they would do.

Only one side in this show has form when it comes to refusing to accept election outcomes.

Guess we'll know for sure when the Democrats get their act together and actually win an election - about 20 years from now probably (50 if they keep up with all the coup BS) .

Well the nonsense is getting pretty deep for people who support the current corrupt system of government.

Now along comes a wannabe court jester in the foot steps of Jatuporn and predicts 20 more years of decline.

Why don't you side with the grass roots people like the Democrats did and try to reform the government?

[DirtFarmer]

As is your prerogative...refuse to be a part of the thing your name embodies..."The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

Great! no surprise here... ( but not too smart I fear in the long run)...but ..Hey now you can start a new Party..The PRP Party... The Popcorn Reform Party...just be kind enough to not use Democratic again for it flies full in the face of what you are all about.. I had such high hopes for some kind of political outreach...six months ago when the rumblings began...some kind of build.... constructive build on what you found as weaknesses in the opposition...and you had a great opportunity.. to exploit it through political outreach, populist education and had you been concerned at all about reform... offered it then... and given the people you need to win an alternative...but instead you let a genie out of the bottle and it became enamored with its power of obstruction rather than construction...what a sham... lost faith in all parties here now...especially disappointed in the Democrats...but alas your claim to reform...that was and will never be the intention..as reform is the farthest thing from the Agenda.... same as it was last time around.....a paper tiger ...Democratic Reform...oxymoron...

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

Hey this is their system the one they use or misuse at will...not mine ... there is plenty wrong with all parties here...all of them... but you see... that is the problem... they are all facilitated by a problem that is way bigger than one or two elections... or even the political process if you will... their "brand of politics" is just that theirs... their brand of "Democracy" is just that.... theirs... and has never included any one else either ...they are mired in a disease which will take decades to recover from ( if at all) so for me or you to bandy about here and now ...change this party or change to that that is merely conjecture... it will be up to all Thais to decide personally through a look in the mirror as to what is acceptable and what isn't but if you still feel like pitting party vs party is a viable solution it reeks of the refusal to understand what you call blah blah blah.....you are missing a huge chunk of reality... to think that any corruption will be eradicated by Suthep or the Dems is misguided at best...reform because the ruling party changes...? is a poorly conceived notion...one rooted in a rather shallow view of a much bigger game... don't you get it at all...? Keep your eye on the obvious and focus on that and keep beating that horse and the masses will ignore the subliminal and don't be surprised when that reality smacks you in the face ... I don't support either faction...but now... again disappointed by the rather childish (again) refusal to take part in a system that they themselves have embraced and modified over the years.. they ( DEMS) know that their only play here now after all this is to continue to demonize their target... and implicitly support Sutheps brand of dogma in the hopes that they can find some self satisfaction in the end result... I repeat hopes... not sure they will ever get it... but can bet ya this... if the Dems get their military/judicial ushering back into power... and the trampling of the political process... the changes/reforms being lauded now.. will not be...nor will it be Democratic...not by a long shot...Cheers

It would help if you would stick to the problem at hand. It only becomes a party issue for the PTP they want to continue their crooked ways. There is no other party fighting them. It is the people of Thailand the grass roots people the Democrats have lent their strength to the people. They haven't had to do it with a hoard of thugs and talking about raising an army of 600,000 people to insure they get what they want regardless of what others want.

The Democrats have refused to sanction the corrupt system where as the PTP has their illegal military arm trying to enlist 600,000 soldiers in to their own personal army.

It is simply unbelievable the amount of people that comment on here and don't even know who the combatants are or what the one side wants. Listen to what the anti government people want not the guy on the bar stool next to you.

At the expense of repeating myself...apologies but...first of all all the hyperbole from both sides the threats by Suthep ..kidnapping and others..all hyperbole...from both sides...600.000 strong army ..not real probably nothing more than bluster...same as Suthep.. I don't drink in bars so your petulant inferences have no audience here.....and I have listened for almost 5 months to what they claim they want...and in those five months the tabled issues have changed from time to time to afford the pedantic failures of their fronted 'Leader' but you clearly cannot see the forest from the trees .I can't buy the Thaksin/PTP argument or ridding them ....as the path to reform... the kind of reform that is necessary here goes way deeper than Thaksin it goes to Privy, military, former premiers, Retired CEO/Generals... it goes to the other mega millionaires that have been gutting this place for ages... long before Thaksin... this constant harping on Thaksin/PTP as the root of all evil and if his/their power and influence is quashed... all will be well in the LOS...? Not even close.. All that position does is facilitate the current power grab through un elected means... by providing a demon character to propagate in the eyes of the masses that refuse to peruse history...have been taught not to study it... who are caught up in hi-so trend and conspicuous consumption and are obsessed with having the most "hip" selfies to publish on internet outlets to twitter and FB about like so many golden baubles while taking solace in anything said that opposes the "demon" is the way forward...if we get rid of the demon the sun will shine and the grass will grow and there won't be anything but smiles and face again...hogwash... get a real look at Thai History from outside the blurbs offered by Thai media.. from all sources possible and maybe get a realistic overview.. the refusal to see that a much bigger game is in play here plays right into the hands of the bettors ...'course this is just my opinion... but I took the blinders off a long time ago...

[dickyknee]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

If they blatantly cheat and the courts are so fair, they would get banned wouldn't they? Unless you are WRONG!

TRT? A whole bunch of them just finished the ban and are now PTP.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[ianf]

Anything that is democratic will be boycotted by this monster Suthep , he is a fascist , a real Hitler look a like , makes up is speeches like Hitler did and the country will end up exactly as Germany back in the late 30 years .... But still many (not that much) brainless are following him.

Don't start telling that comparing with Hitler is not allowed or not on topic, as it is, you can see it every day when you see Suthep and look back on the web to the strategy of AH.

Please stop this guy before it's too late .

Oh dear Ikke ... you have got this totally upside down! Why call him a fascist? There is no evidence of this. There is no evidence that he is seeking dictatorial power. I have, in previous posts, referred to Mein Kampf and to Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism. Some of my posts have been deleted because I have made intuitive connections between what happened in Mussolini/Hitler's time and what is happening now. I've also said that these labels simply do not work here but that Thaksin has taken the emotional manipulation of the masses to a fine art and that his connections through Robert Amsterdam and some very dubious characters worldwide are very dangerous. Thaksin is a would be dictator in waiting. Suthep has made it quite clear that he will step down as soon as the nation accepts the fact that political reform is vital if Thailand is to move forward. Off course, this flies in the face of the Thaksin dream and the nonsense that he has sold to his red accolytes. I could write an essay about this, but Ikke - you have an opinion and write as if you have a monopoly on truth. I offer you facts.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ianf

[whybother]

Cheating.........

image.jpg

More cheating........

image.jpg

Shooting voters........

image.jpg

........sorry, what was your point again?

They were shooting at people that shot at them. They weren't "shooting voters".

[HonestQuietBob]

the democrates are as stupid as the hole establishement, they did not learn the lesson. they should fight to win the next elections, their general meaninig of we will loose anyway is a very bad thing...only looosers say in advance we will loose...but they could win if they really would believe in winning

Have you been asleep or out of touch with reality.

This is not about who wins the election this is about reforming the government. Are you standing up for the PTP when they cheat farmers out of their money when they promise taxa rebates when they promise pads for every one in school and deliver a few and the ones they deliver are no good. Are you for crooked elections. These are the things that the anti government protestors are trying to change. Then have an election.

Wake up and ask your self why the PTP does not want an election over haul before the election? The answer is so simple I will not insult your intelligence by pretending you don't know and have to be told.

The Democrats are fighting to reform a government that allows that. Reform the government and they have no fear of the election. It will be an honest one and they will accept that. to let the PTP carry on is just supporting their illegal ways.

Thailand is sliding down hill each year it gets more corrupt. With the ASEAN coming up I for one would thing they would like Thailand to be a more honest country. Corruption is in every country. But look at Singapore and how little it has and yet how well it is doing.

It is entirely about elections.

One side wants democracy and one side doesn't.

One side wants elections and the other side wants appointments

Why are the Yellows opposed to democracy?

Because the majority wear red shirts, the minority wear yellow shirts.

Simple as that.

How about you wake up, try and see past the "Thaksin is evil crap" and recognise, in all its horrors, what it is that you are supporting here.

Undemocratic crooks who are lower than the dust under the sandals of the poorest farmer in north.

BTW - the Democrats aren't fighting, they're boycotting.

Singapore is a tax haven, full stop.

[rreddin]

Khun Chavanond, very sensible statement.

Fight to the end, oust the Shinawatra clan, and then have real DEMOCRATIC elections.

Totla claptrap! If the Dems have any backbone and stop following orders from Suthep they might actually achieve something. As it is, they are getting their excuses in before any decision is made. They are a spineless bunch only serving their own interests.

[whybother]

God what a tosser this Abhisit is! No wonder the country is in such a mess with losers like this. What's more, it's lucky there's not a war on, otherwise he'd be clinging to his Mama's skirts. A total, cringeing coward!

If you want confirmation of what a boring old fart he is, just try to read his boring writings: I guarantee you'll be fast asleep before the first chapter.

Try for example his recent book "The Simple Truth" - all about how he didn't really kill all those protesters. Aw, sweet! Yawn, snooze snooze snooze...

Or try his:

"Summary of the performance of the cabinet..." (2010) - this is the most boring report on a government (his pathetic government) that I have ever seen. Try to stay awake beyond the 2nd page. I couldn't. By the way, that was the government where he increased the budget for the army and prosecuted many more people for lese majeste etc etc etc. Sounds as if you could tell an interesting story there ... unless you're a boring old fart!!

Then contrast the latter boring-ologue with Thaksin's report on his first years in office called, "4 years of repair for all Thais and Thailand..." (2004). This is more like it: a clearly written and presented report, showing how well the Thaksin government actually performed in those 4 years. A bit propagandistic, but basically factual, and with loads of statistics, pictures and indeed idealism. They kept their 3 basic promises, and that's why the Isaan people respected them.

Okay, so Thaksin made himself a bit richer while he was running Thailand. Big deal! He also made his fellow citizens a lot richer. I'm not sure I'd say "bring him back", but I would say, let's give credit to him for opening up Thailand to democracy, and then lets get some new politicians from Isaan to keep his legacy alive. Thaksin clearly deserves a statue for his genuine achievements. It should be erected in Chiang Mai or Isaan - and copies could be thrown over the garden fence of boring old Abhisit.

"God what a tosser this Abhisit is! No wonder the country is in such a mess with losers like this."

Given that Abhisit has been in opposition, how is it his fault that the country is in such a mess?

"He also made his fellow citizens a lot richer."

If he made Thai citizens so rich, why are the farmers in so much trouble now? Did you know that there was a global economic boom while Thaksin was in power? Do you think that might have had something to do with the improving Thai economy during that time?

"let's give credit to him for opening up Thailand to democracy"

You do know that there were elections in Thailand before Thaksin was even in politics, don't you?

[Rich teacher]

Cheating.........

image.jpg

More cheating........

image.jpg

Shooting voters........

image.jpg

........sorry, what was your point again?

They were shooting at people that shot at them. They weren't "shooting voters".

They were shooting at people who had come to try and get the voting ballots released from an armed group that had hijacked them so an election could be held.

[whybother]

Cheating.........

image.jpg

More cheating........

image.jpg

Shooting voters........

image.jpg

........sorry, what was your point again?

They were shooting at people that shot at them. They weren't "shooting voters".

They were shooting at people who had come to try and get the voting ballots released from an armed group that had hijacked them so an election could be held.

And those people were shooting at them.

[fab4]

"However, the Prime Minister and her government should not be the ones hosting the general election because they are part of the conflict, said Chavanond."

Democrat Party? What are they on - is he telling them they can't participate in the election because they happen to be the caretaker government?

Incredibly stupid statements and action.

Why compete in an election when the ruling party refuses to accept the verdicts of courts and independent agencies? The Dems have always respected their position of being the opposition. But with the present group of (self exiled) criminals running the country, what would it be worth to be an opposition party?

There is no reasonable answer to that IF you believe the courts and independant agencies are just that, independant. To my mind the courts and independant agencies deserve the respect they are being accorded.

I tried very hard to ignore your babble. But when you open the door and say it is in your mind that the courts do not deserve respect. Well Logic in your mind would be like a stranger in a strange land. The government will ignore the courts verdicts (the government and your idea of honor) when it suits you and them but they have no problem using the same courts to get at the opposition.

Unbelievable

Four words for you, without any masturbation emoticons involved.

Constitution Court, Rational Decisions?

I won't bother arguing about the NACC, courts that rule PDRC rallies as peaceful assemblies despite being shown obvious evidence they were anything but, hamper SOE's, have a lack of precedent, treat people who literally halt the election process as being perfectly legitimate protesters, the EC..................

You know where the ignore button is? I'd hate to trouble you further.

Edited March 20, 2014 by fab4

[northernjohn]

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

Hey this is their system the one they use or misuse at will...not mine ... there is plenty wrong with all parties here...all of them... but you see... that is the problem... they are all facilitated by a problem that is way bigger than one or two elections... or even the political process if you will... their "brand of politics" is just that theirs... their brand of "Democracy" is just that.... theirs... and has never included any one else either ...they are mired in a disease which will take decades to recover from ( if at all) so for me or you to bandy about here and now ...change this party or change to that that is merely conjecture... it will be up to all Thais to decide personally through a look in the mirror as to what is acceptable and what isn't but if you still feel like pitting party vs party is a viable solution it reeks of the refusal to understand what you call blah blah blah.....you are missing a huge chunk of reality... to think that any corruption will be eradicated by Suthep or the Dems is misguided at best...reform because the ruling party changes...? is a poorly conceived notion...one rooted in a rather shallow view of a much bigger game... don't you get it at all...? Keep your eye on the obvious and focus on that and keep beating that horse and the masses will ignore the subliminal and don't be surprised when that reality smacks you in the face ... I don't support either faction...but now... again disappointed by the rather childish (again) refusal to take part in a system that they themselves have embraced and modified over the years.. they ( DEMS) know that their only play here now after all this is to continue to demonize their target... and implicitly support Sutheps brand of dogma in the hopes that they can find some self satisfaction in the end result... I repeat hopes... not sure they will ever get it... but can bet ya this... if the Dems get their military/judicial ushering back into power... and the trampling of the political process... the changes/reforms being lauded now.. will not be...nor will it be Democratic...not by a long shot...Cheers

It would help if you would stick to the problem at hand. It only becomes a party issue for the PTP they want to continue their crooked ways. There is no other party fighting them. It is the people of Thailand the grass roots people the Democrats have lent their strength to the people. They haven't had to do it with a hoard of thugs and talking about raising an army of 600,000 people to insure they get what they want regardless of what others want.

The Democrats have refused to sanction the corrupt system where as the PTP has their illegal military arm trying to enlist 600,000 soldiers in to their own personal army.

It is simply unbelievable the amount of people that comment on here and don't even know who the combatants are or what the one side wants. Listen to what the anti government people want not the guy on the bar stool next to you.

At the expense of repeating myself...apologies but...first of all all the hyperbole from both sides the threats by Suthep ..kidnapping and others..all hyperbole...from both sides...600.000 strong army ..not real probably nothing more than bluster...same as Suthep.. I don't drink in bars so your petulant inferences have no audience here.....and I have listened for almost 5 months to what they claim they want...and in those five months the tabled issues have changed from time to time to afford the pedantic failures of their fronted 'Leader' but you clearly cannot see the forest from the trees .I can't buy the Thaksin/PTP argument or ridding them ....as the path to reform... the kind of reform that is necessary here goes way deeper than Thaksin it goes to Privy, military, former premiers, Retired CEO/Generals... it goes to the other mega millionaires that have been gutting this place for ages... long before Thaksin... this constant harping on Thaksin/PTP as the root of all evil and if his/their power and influence is quashed... all will be well in the LOS...? Not even close.. All that position does is facilitate the current power grab through un elected means... by providing a demon character to propagate in the eyes of the masses that refuse to peruse history...have been taught not to study it... who are caught up in hi-so trend and conspicuous consumption and are obsessed with having the most "hip" selfies to publish on internet outlets to twitter and FB about like so many golden baubles while taking solace in anything said that opposes the "demon" is the way forward...if we get rid of the demon the sun will shine and the grass will grow and there won't be anything but smiles and face again...hogwash... get a real look at Thai History from outside the blurbs offered by Thai media.. from all sources possible and maybe get a realistic overview.. the refusal to see that a much bigger game is in play here plays right into the hands of the bettors ...'course this is just my opinion... but I took the blinders off a long time ago...

Sorry for wasting your time. I am slow but I do learn you are nothing but another conspiracy theorist.

Wouldn't surprise me if you started blaming the men in the black coats.

In parting sweet company with you I will once again point out to you that the anti government protestors are trying to deal with the problems now today 2014 do you find that hard to understand? Where as you people ignore them. Happy as a pig in a poke to continue on with out even trying also happy to condemn the ones who are trying.

[casualbiker]

IF the courts nullifies the Feb 2nd vote AND the Yingluck government calls another election the Democrat party would be COMPLETE IDIOTS NOT to run!

[CWN]

Not really smart, last election Democrats received 35% and PT 48%.

Just 8% change their opinon towards Democrats and they will win.

And after PT:s total failure almost everywhere, this seems to be possible.

[oldsailor35]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

[bigbamboo]

My own view, for what's it's worth, is that the Democrats have made their point and exposed this government for what it is.

Now they should let the people decide whether they are with or against them.

[jayboy]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

At last a clear statement justifying the Democrat boycott (though I think a misguided one).

To make sense of it at least two questions need to be answered:

1.How was the last election not valid and fairly conducted especially since all independent observers were satisfied?

2.What precise reforms need to be put in place to make the next one fair?

I'm not unsympathetic to a national effort across parties to reform the system and tackle corruption, but for clarity's sake there needs to be an understanding on an improved electoral process.

If the response is just the usual claptrap (Thaksin buying farmers votes etc) we can only conclude the Democrat boycott is for the reason they are unelectable.

And in that case the advice should be ditch the incompetent leadership, cut ties with the gangster Suthep, tell the Bangkok middle class that they cannot have the casting vote, develop some policies attractive to the Thai people as a whole.. and then win an election.

How about no vote buying by any one? Buy one vote automatic two years in jail. Sell your vote 5 times the amount for a fine. How about freedom to choose who you vote for? This means no one standing over you to make sure you vote the way the village head man tells you to. How about a secure way to hold the ballots until they are counted?

Now give us your PTP claptrap why we can't do that.

Any sensible measures to minimise or eradicate vote buying and other electoral abuses are obviously to be welcomed.However all the evidence shows that undesirable though vote buying is, outcomes are not affected.Chris Baker and Acharn Pasuk, no suckers for what you describe as "PTP claptrap", describe the suggestion that vote buying undermined the validity of the last election as "dangerous nonsense".

[whybother]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

They did make some changes. But being part of a coalition, they couldn't make all the changes that they wanted to.

[oldsailor35]

As is your prerogative...refuse to be a part of the thing your name embodies..."The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

Great! no surprise here... ( but not too smart I fear in the long run)...but ..Hey now you can start a new Party..The PRP Party... The Popcorn Reform Party...just be kind enough to not use Democratic again for it flies full in the face of what you are all about.. I had such high hopes for some kind of political outreach...six months ago when the rumblings began...some kind of build.... constructive build on what you found as weaknesses in the opposition...and you had a great opportunity.. to exploit it through political outreach, populist education and had you been concerned at all about reform... offered it then... and given the people you need to win an alternative...but instead you let a genie out of the bottle and it became enamored with its power of obstruction rather than construction...what a sham... lost faith in all parties here now...especially disappointed in the Democrats...but alas your claim to reform...that was and will never be the intention..as reform is the farthest thing from the Agenda.... same as it was last time around.....a paper tiger ...Democratic Reform...oxymoron...

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

If you are really interested in corruption whilst in power. You need go no further than the DEMs deputy PM (really defacto leader) one Khun Suthep, the master corruptor.

[casualbiker]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

Who were in power long enough? Abhisits Democrats were only in power for 31 months! Most of that with the Reds protesting... or Thaksonites vetoing bills.

Thaksin's numerous family/clan governments were in power for more than 84 months!

[antimedia]

Sound familiar:

Since the 1953 CIA-MI6 coup in Iran, the West has been using the same formula to overthrow legitimate but uncooperative leaders: First, sabotage the country’s economy. Then bribe corrupt military officers and thugs and pay rent-a-mobs to create chaos in the streets. Next (this step is optional) incite violence by paying snipers to fire into crowds – and maybe set off some bombs. Finally, send the corrupt military units and gangsters to overthrow the target nation’s legitimate leader, murder or imprison his supporters, install a Western puppet in his place – and announce that “order has been restored.”

For the full story - http2014/03/putin-puts-fear-of-god-in-new-world.html ...

So where does this leave Thailand?

1. A massively corrupt government although legitimate – Yingluck and the PTP?

2. Western puppet – Suthep and the PDRC?

Food for thought - do not dismiss the fact that the public including us are being taken for a ride.

[HonestQuietBob]

My own view, for what's it's worth, is that the Democrats have made their point and exposed this government for what it is.

Now they should let the people decide whether they are with or against them.

My own view, for what its worth,

I disagree with your reasoning but completely agree with your conclusion.

[oldsailor35]

Anything that is democratic will be boycotted by this monster Suthep , he is a fascist , a real Hitler look a like , makes up is speeches like Hitler did and the country will end up exactly as Germany back in the late 30 years .... But still many (not that much) brainless are following him.

Don't start telling that comparing with Hitler is not allowed or not on topic, as it is, you can see it every day when you see Suthep and look back on the web to the strategy of AH.

Please stop this guy before it's too late .

Oh dear Ikke ... you have got this totally upside down! Why call him a fascist? There is no evidence of this. There is no evidence that he is seeking dictatorial power. I have, in previous posts, referred to Mein Kampf and to Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism. Some of my posts have been deleted because I have made intuitive connections between what happened in Mussolini/Hitler's time and what is happening now. I've also said that these labels simply do not work here but that Thaksin has taken the emotional manipulation of the masses to a fine art and that his connections through Robert Amsterdam and some very dubious characters worldwide are very dangerous. Thaksin is a would be dictator in waiting. Suthep has made it quite clear that he will step down as soon as the nation accepts the fact that political reform is vital if Thailand is to move forward. Off course, this flies in the face of the Thaksin dream and the nonsense that he has sold to his red accolytes. I could write an essay about this, but Ikke - you have an opinion and write as if you have a monopoly on truth. I offer you facts.

If you believe in what Suthep says from day to day, then you don't uderstand very much do you. Let me assure you that what Suthep says today is usually different to what he thinks tomorrow.

[oldsailor35]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

They did make some changes. But being part of a coalition, they couldn't make all the changes that they wanted to.

Meanwhile Khun Suthep feathered his nest...............Palm Oil Scam, Gave government land on Phuket, set aside for poor farmers, to rich Hi-So friends, Enroached on government land on Samui, seconding land on to his own. You know , just altering the boundary's. And people actually think that he is just an honest farmer from the south. How did he become a millionaire ? I feel sure that Abisit did not do these things, but the rest of the DEM's mob.........say no more ! They saw what the master corruptor was getting and wanted a piece of the action. Back in those good ole days, reform never came into their heads.

[oldsailor35]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

Who were in power long enough? Abhisits Democrats were only in power for 31 months! Most of that with the Reds protesting... or Thaksonites vetoing bills.

Thaksin's numerous family/clan governments were in power for more than 84 months!

Yes! and consider the amazing progress Thailand made under Thaksin.

[fab4]

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

They were in power long enough ! Why did'nt they introduce these "urgent reforms" them............Because they thought they would be there for ever as they are born to be, thats why !

Who were in power long enough? Abhisits Democrats were only in power for 31 months! Most of that with the Reds protesting... or Thaksonites vetoing bills.

Thaksin's numerous family/clan governments were in power for more than 84 months!

To be fair, the point is that abhisit and co, whether they were busy fighting the UDD (for two months) or resisting "Thaksonites vetoing bills" (? I thought that was the idea of an opposition),( just how many bills were vetoed that were anything to do with these proposed reforms?) had plenty of time to mention even a fledgling idea of "reform" - there was no big "Idea" for reform proposed by the dem government, not even a hint of one.

Now, two years out of power an ill conceived attempt to pass an altered amnesty bill led to protests by the dems. Fair enough, but the checks and balances in place (and which the opposition had not complained about before in the previous 2 years of PTP government) worked and the amnesty bill was rejected by the senate.

Previously, changes to the constitution (which was part of the PTP election platform and everybody knew about) were stopped in 2012 by the CC under one of their first "interesting" rulings. They agreed that the constitution could be changed but a referendum had to take place first. Another landmark ruling, referring to the junta constitution rewrite referendum, completely ignoring the fact that the junta didn't hold a referendum before the CDA rewrote the 1997 constitution, only after - and that was of dubious value as a free and fair vote.

Alternatively, the CC said, you can alter the constitution article by article, in parliament. Seeing that the PTP only wished to make certain changes to the constitution instead of rewriting it, they chose this method. Which they did until the CC stepped in once more (well a couple of times actually) and ruled that although the gov. had amended certain articles of the constitution in the manner accepted by the the CC, they ruled these amendments unconstitutional!

The ultimate in ridiculous rulings came with the amendment to the "election of Senators" section of the constitution. In 1997 the Senators were fully elected, the 2007 Junta constitution amended this arrangement to part elected part appointed. The PTP wished to have fully elected Senators a la 1997. But now apparently, the very act of attempting to do so was ruled unconstitutional! And while they were at it the CC ruled that the government were in breach of article 68,i.e they were overthrowing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State, aka treason. Having ruled thus, the CC took no further action - now tell me those are the actions of a stable functional independant Constitutional Court.

Notwithstanding the rights and wrongs of the CC rulings, up until the Senate verdict, the checks and balances worked. The government dissolved parliament and announced an election in the normal timescale and that is when suthep stepped in, resolving to stop the elections happening and the dems boycotted it saying it wouldn't be free or fair despite ANFREL having nothing devastating to say about the 2011 elections.

Not content with that it was deemed necessary that the Shinawatras have nothing to do with elections (meanwhile the traditional backers of the dems were probably ruing their decision to reinstate abhisit and found themselves having to back suthep and his unconstitutional peoples council) and it was absolutely necessary to have a reform of ? (whatever, the details haven't been worked out yet) before any election take place.

Why?, the system works. Contest an election and then have the reform outside of parliament as proposed by the PTP. Seems a far more reasonable solution than dragging out the impasse whilst dragging down the projected growth of the economy and harming future investment.

Edited March 20, 2014 by fab4