If you can't face the consequences, just don't do it: Thai politics

[Dap]

Another anti-Yingluck piece.

No problem...It is what the Opposition is designed to do.

This steady drumbeat by the media of anti-Govt. stuff day-after-day however, is abnormal.

Observing meetings around here in this UDD/RS area, I was struck by the lack of media attention...Preferring to heap report after report about activities by those with intentions to eradicate Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy while ignoring the Pro-Democracy majority. Even to the point yesterday of aggrandizing a speech by a coup-monger from a coup-monger stage in Lumpini, as some sort of serious intellectual exercise.

But do not be fooled by that media fostering of anti-democracy activities......From what I see, the UDD/RS are expecting a coup, judicial or otherwise, and are preparing as if it is a fait accompli.

Willful ignoring of this by the media will have the same affect as when everyone was super surprised when the anti-coup protesters hit Bangkok in 2010, wondering where that suddenly materialized from.

There will be nothing sudden or unplanned when the Amart makes their final move via their Independent Organizations....No amount of trying to normalize the abnormal judiciary as in this piece, and attributing Yingluck as the one out of step, is obscured.

One thing that has historical reality on its' side, is that the electoral majority is not influenced by this pro-Amart media smoke. In elections past, this same phenomena ocurred, and the electorate impressed the H... out of me, by voting independently minded, seemingly unaffected by the daily barrage of pro-Amart stuff they were exposed to.

I think it is time to leave ThaiVisa News section.

It never makes you happy, and almost all opinion here is in support of the anti-government camp.

So you can't win the arguments here, which is why you need to resort to distortion of facts etc....

Never going to be a happy outcome.. Can I suggest the fishing threads.

Hey! I like the fishing threads ... just the way they are.

[Fryslan boppe]

Another anti-Yingluck piece.

No problem...It is what the Opposition is designed to do.

This steady drumbeat by the media of anti-Govt. stuff day-after-day however, is abnormal.

Observing meetings around here in this UDD/RS area, I was struck by the lack of media attention...Preferring to heap report after report about activities by those with intentions to eradicate Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy while ignoring the Pro-Democracy majority. Even to the point yesterday of aggrandizing a speech by a coup-monger from a coup-monger stage in Lumpini, as some sort of serious intellectual exercise.

But do not be fooled by that media fostering of anti-democracy activities......From what I see, the UDD/RS are expecting a coup, judicial or otherwise, and are preparing as if it is a fait accompli.

Willful ignoring of this by the media will have the same affect as when everyone was super surprised when the anti-coup protesters hit Bangkok in 2010, wondering where that suddenly materialized from.

There will be nothing sudden or unplanned when the Amart makes their final move via their Independent Organizations....No amount of trying to normalize the abnormal judiciary as in this piece, and attributing Yingluck as the one out of step, is obscured.

One thing that has historical reality on its' side, is that the electoral majority is not influenced by this pro-Amart media smoke. In elections past, this same phenomena ocurred, and the electorate impressed the H... out of me, by voting independently minded, seemingly unaffected by the daily barrage of pro-Amart stuff they were exposed to.

I think it is time to leave ThaiVisa News section.

It never makes you happy, and almost all opinion here is in support of the anti-government camp.

So you can't win the arguments here, which is why you need to resort to distortion of facts etc....

Never going to be a happy outcome.. Can I suggest the fishing threads.

When one resorts to focussing on the messenger instead of the message, demonstrates a paucity of debating capacity.........I try to avoid it.

[Scamper]

" Political leaders and government heads should have the courage to accept liability for their actions and not use emotions to cover the truth. "

Precisely. But the problem for Pheu Thai - when there is do defense, this is what you do. What Yingluck said in the extended quote at the start of this article is really jaw-dropping. It is essentially a make-over interpretation of the law. When " good intentions " becomes the magic wand that dissolves all wrong-doing, what is the point of having a justice system ? And when Pheu Thai use that very system to push every imaginable charge, where is the search for " good intentions " there ? The legal system is there. It is meant to be applied. By all sides. Period. A prime minister has a duty to respect the law and the rulings of the courts. Period. These downtrodden press conferences where the judicial system is gently scolded does a tremendous amount of harm. Yingluck has no time to speak to the NACC. And yet she has time to address them through television and through facebook. The problem is - she can't answer their questions, and she's embarrassed. Fine. But don't go in front of the national cameras and talk down the judicial process.

[Fryslan boppe]

Thailand needs new moderate mainstream parties run by hitherto unknown leaders with hardcore corruption-busting and progressive reform agendas. They need to stand away from both existing gangs, and appeal to the moderate mainstream who want to see a new direction and an end to time-wasting factionalism. Both of the current main parties are unambiguously failed, as is the process of arguing about which of them is less repugnant.

this is true... but the reason for this stalemate is clear:

one party has strong affiliations to Thaksinism and the other to the Ammart

I have often argued that a party for the 'middle way' (not Thaksin, not Elite) would do very well IF they could break through

however, the current 'troubles' has more to do with 'paradigm shift' than with Thaksin and it has happened in many countries where there has been a 'ruling class' and it can't be stopped here. People will simply not accept that a few families control everything - feudalism has had it's day

There is no stalemate. There is disagreement. In this case between an electoral majority and a minority who want to force their way into power via non-electoral means...

One party has strong affiliation to electoral and Parliamentary Democracy, and for self-serving reasons, the other one doesn't....This latter group seek to diminish this electoral reality by depriving the Pro-democracy side of political awareness by rendering it uni-dimensional.

There is no middle way......same as there is no ability to be half-pregnant....One supports Democracy or one doesn't. Trying to water it down to their own level of incompetence, is the theory behind this so-called reform stuff outside Parliamentary procedures.

"People will simply not accept that a few families control everything"......Agreed....So what to do where that is the case? Stating a problem without discussing solutions does not advance matters.

Many of us can come up with solutions.......I suggest they be debated in a nationally representative Parliament and/or propose them in national elections, and let the populace decide.

Suggesting as Suthep and his handlers do, to cobble together a group outside National Electoral and Parliamentary procedures, simply duplicates the problem as stated, namely one of "a few controlling everything"

The electoral majority who are seeing this attempt to nullify their votes, are not amused..... By taking governance issues it out of the hands of Parliamentarians who they voted for, and placing them in the hands of a selected few, vexes them. It implies that the "selectors" of these people are more significant than them.

[Fryslan boppe]

Thailand needs new moderate mainstream parties run by hitherto unknown leaders with hardcore corruption-busting and progressive reform agendas. They need to stand away from both existing gangs, and appeal to the moderate mainstream who want to see a new direction and an end to time-wasting factionalism. Both of the current main parties are unambiguously failed, as is the process of arguing about which of them is less repugnant.

this is true... but the reason for this stalemate is clear:

one party has strong affiliations to Thaksinism and the other to the Ammart

I have often argued that a party for the 'middle way' (not Thaksin, not Elite) would do very well IF they could break through

however, the current 'troubles' has more to do with 'paradigm shift' than with Thaksin and it has happened in many countries where there has been a 'ruling class' and it can't be stopped here. People will simply not accept that a few families control everything - feudalism has had it's day

If the current 'troubles' has more to do with a 'paradigm shift', why are the government and the red shirts doing so much to get Thaksin back.

Thaksin uses feudalism as much as any politician in Thailand. How do you think he controls the people in the North and North East?

Surely for it to really be a shift, they need to dump Thaksin and his cronies.

They prefer to dump the coup-makers and their cronies, which they did very effectively the first election after their unelected power-grab.

That election was about as strong a repudiation of the 2006 coup-mongers as possible, especially after their concerted campaign to demonize those they coup'ed, trying to validate themselves.

[billd766]

You just can't avoid seeing the repeating trend by the courts to interfere with politics since the '06 coup. Everytime the sponsored anti democractic force runs out of ideas, the courts will step in with their selective judgement and initiate a judiciary putsch.

Did that with Samad over a cooking show when the PAD could not dislodged him in '08. The government survived and court step in again in '09 and dissolved the PPP.

Just how many knocks can democracy take when even the courts betray our trust.

Firstly there is not and has been no real democracy in Thailand for many years.

Secondly Samak broke the law, was caught and lied about it.

Thirdly he could have been re-elected as PM quite legally but Thaksin chose his brother in law Somchai instead.

Fourthly the PPP was disbanded due to electoral fraud.

The problem with anything that Thaksin does is always on the edge of legality but mostly over the edge as he doesn't care about or respect the law. He truly believes that he has the divine right to RULE over the people of Thailand.

That is one reason why there is no democracy in Thailand.

[Fryslan boppe]

Another anti-Yingluck piece.

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So, you truely believe that Yingluck, the government/PTP, the Red Shirts, the UDD and Thaksin et al, should NOT take responsibility for their actions?

Wow, you have been here too long and have truely gone native.

The electorate will hold them to account, should there be a problem.......Leading to the query, why the efforts to prevent, delay and nullify the current election....Could the notion of suggesting that Ms. Y/PTP/RS's/UDD have negative actions to be held reponsible for, be merely Opposition-speak without substance....Just asking.

[Fryslan boppe]

You just can't avoid seeing the repeating trend by the courts to interfere with politics since the '06 coup. Everytime the sponsored anti democractic force runs out of ideas, the courts will step in with their selective judgement and initiate a judiciary putsch.

Did that with Samad over a cooking show when the PAD could not dislodged him in '08. The government survived and court step in again in '09 and dissolved the PPP.

Just how many knocks can democracy take when even the courts betray our trust.

Ill tell it again maybe some more red supporters will understand it then. Probably not as they are all red sighted.

The best defence against the courts is not to break the law.

- Not using others cards to vote on bills / or do votes at strange hours when you send others home

- Not chairing a rice program that is full of corruption

- Not going for programs that lack the checks and balances and go off books (again the rice program)

Best one of all.. not against the courts but what got us all in this mess at the first time "Dont try to get amnesty for a convicted criminal" all this would not have happend if that was not done.

"...all this would not have happend if that was not done"

Yes it would have.

The coup-mongers have been waiting since the last election to pull a repeat of 2006.....They needed to act now, as the next election would doom them even more.

But they are embarrassed by their won motivations, so they set out to magnify and/or fabricate issues as cover. Trying to hide their true, power-hungry motives behind self-righteous indignation about this issue or that one.

All the issues you reference, could and should have been Parliamentarized. But they didn't want that...They wanted a coup..They want to force their way into power sans an election. .So they took Parliamentary issues out on the street, in the hope they could mobilize the military, and when that hasn't worked, now the so-called independent organizations.

[Morch]

Another anti-Yingluck piece.

No problem...It is what the Opposition is designed to do.

This steady drumbeat by the media of anti-Govt. stuff day-after-day however, is abnormal.

Actually, it's not. Pretty much the same in most countries where there's certain freedom of speech.

Taking The Nation as a representative of all Thai media is a bit rich. Not to mention that being an English language news organization means it is not read by most Thais anyway.

[Issangeorge]

Just as the Democratic Party should work within the election rules rather than boycotting elections, the PTP should work within the rules of the court rather than saying they don't except them.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Morch]

Ill tell it again maybe some more red supporters will understand it then. Probably not as they are all red sighted.

The best defence against the courts is not to break the law.

- Not using others cards to vote on bills / or do votes at strange hours when you send others home

- Not chairing a rice program that is full of corruption

- Not going for programs that lack the checks and balances and go off books (again the rice program)

Best one of all.. not against the courts but what got us all in this mess at the first time "Dont try to get amnesty for a convicted criminal" all this would not have happend if that was not done.

"...all this would not have happend if that was not done"

Yes it would have.

The coup-mongers have been waiting since the last election to pull a repeat of 2006.....They needed to act now, as the next election would doom them even more.

But they are embarrassed by their won motivations, so they set out to magnify and/or fabricate issues as cover. Trying to hide their true, power-hungry motives behind self-righteous indignation about this issue or that one.

All the issues you reference, could and should have been Parliamentarized. But they didn't want that...They wanted a coup..They want to force their way into power sans an election. .So they took Parliamentary issues out on the street, in the hope they could mobilize the military, and when that hasn't worked, now the so-called independent organizations.

The government wasn't too keen on running things through parliament or debating it's action. Parliamentary complaints regarding late night votes, using other MP's voting cards - brushed aside. Question regarding rice scheme details - unanswered. Last and not least - trying to pass a loan bill that would have bypassed parliament entirely.

[whybother]

They prefer to dump the coup-makers and their cronies, which they did very effectively the first election after their unelected power-grab.

That election was about as strong a repudiation of the 2006 coup-mongers as possible, especially after their concerted campaign to demonize those they coup'ed, trying to validate themselves.

In other words, no paradigm shift. Just the same old corruption of the Thaksin regime.

[wolfmanjack]

Another anti-Yingluck piece.

No problem...It is what the Opposition is designed to do.

This steady drumbeat by the media of anti-Govt. stuff day-after-day however, is abnormal.

Observing meetings around here in this UDD/RS area, I was struck by the lack of media attention...Preferring to heap report after report about activities by those with intentions to eradicate Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy while ignoring the Pro-Democracy majority. Even to the point yesterday of aggrandizing a speech by a coup-monger from a coup-monger stage in Lumpini, as some sort of serious intellectual exercise.

But do not be fooled by that media fostering of anti-democracy activities......From what I see, the UDD/RS are expecting a coup, judicial or otherwise, and are preparing as if it is a fait accompli.

Willful ignoring of this by the media will have the same affect as when everyone was super surprised when the anti-coup protesters hit Bangkok in 2010, wondering where that suddenly materialized from.

There will be nothing sudden or unplanned when the Amart makes their final move via their Independent Organizations....No amount of trying to normalize the abnormal judiciary as in this piece, and attributing Yingluck as the one out of step, is obscured.

One thing that has historical reality on its' side, is that the electoral majority is not influenced by this pro-Amart media smoke. In elections past, this same phenomena ocurred, and the electorate impressed the H... out of me, by voting independently minded, seemingly unaffected by the daily barrage of pro-Amart stuff they were exposed to.

I think it is time to leave ThaiVisa News section.

It never makes you happy, and almost all opinion here is in support of the anti-government camp.

So you can't win the arguments here, which is why you need to resort to distortion of facts etc....

Never going to be a happy outcome.. Can I suggest the fishing threads.

is there really a fisting thread

I think a fisting thread would get deleted pretty quick. Try fishing instead like was originally recommended.

[Dogmatix]

This family is always talking about its good intentions towards the nation. That's what Thaksin said after he got the boot in the 2006 coup. They have only good intentions towards their own Chinese clan. The rest is all evil. Otherwise they wouldn't need to keep repeating this hollow mantra. It would be obvious to everyone.

[pitchag]

Thais taking the blame for anything, you must be joking, a friend of mine was sitting in his car parked and a motor bike slammed into the back of him and the rider went over his car and landed in front of him one guess how was held to have caused the accident, the police ruled it 50/50 blame and then asked for money from my friend to help pay for repair to the bike

P.S. My Thai g/f has just informed me that she is never wrong as well

[JamesDean3]

Taking responsibilty for ones actions is something everyone should learn. And I am not only talking about the Thai. Americans, Canadians, Europeans especially the kids. Just look at them, no sense of responsibilty whatsover. The overweight problem in the U.S. is a good example.

Anyways,

Yingluck and her family are Crooks. In Shinawatra's case it is actually 4th Generation of crooks starting with the Chinese immigrant - the gret great father of Thaksin who landed in the province Changseongsao after arriving from China. He has jailed for some crimes he committed. His son followed in his footsteps and also was jailed and moved to Chonburi. The grandson (the father of Thaksin) moved the clan to Chiangmai and changed their name to Shinawatra. Now the son Thaksin has just followed in his clans footsteps - the Clan of Thieves.

So talking about taking responsibilty to Yingluck is like talikng to a doorknob.