Why Is Thailand So Backward?

[toptuan]

Gary you said it all. I hope those are the same rationales for why the vast majority of TV members are in this country. With your outlook, you're a credit to the expat community.

[ROFL]

I am amazed at the number of people who continuously and consistently berate this country. I was never comfortable in the "Love it or leave it" group but I am finding more common ground with them. I am very grateful that I was born and raised in the USA. I managed to save enough money to be able to retire a bit early while I am still able to enjoy life. I do NOT feel that I am taking advantage of anyone's poverty and I actually feel that I am good for the country by spending my retirement money here rather than live like a pauper in the USA. The only place I EVER want to see ice again is in my glass. I have a lovely young Thai wife and life is good. Thai politics is none of my business. I want to see the country do well but not so well that it turns into the rat race that I left behind. I live among very poor people and they are happier than the majority of western people that I have seen. How can it be wrong to be happy go lucky and happy with their way of life? Bangkok by comparison is materialistic and scams abound. Do you want to rest of the country to follow the wealthy Thai Bangkok people? When the Thai people get to be like western people I will seek somewhere else to hang my hat.

Leave all the dog eat dog world behind and start enjoys your lifes.

Here's a little experiment for ya, take a truckload of TV's, Cell phones, Nice furniture, couple carriers worth of motor bikes and cars up to A's village.

Offer to give them to the villagers, "if they say no dont want them, were happy" Ill burn everything I own get rid of my clothes and go live in the jungle and eat nuts.

Its a garden of eden vs eating the apple thing.

[thankuverybig]

im with, gary a

i think the majority of falung (outside of pattaya) like thailand because it is backward.more so ten years ago.

i stayed in a bungalow on lamai beach on ko samui in 1989.people keep telling me the island is ruined now,but hey heres to thailand moving forward!

i cant remember seing to many stressed out people in laos.

i have a japanese freind who told me that the suicide rate in japan was very high last year,but hey who cares as long as they are competitive in the world!

i live in a small town in the north & ive met quite a few bitter & twisted western men who are living in pattaya & seem to continually bitch about how unhappy they are in thailand,but they still choose to live there.

i say if you want a developed,forward,competitive country in asia,move to singapore,but mind you i spose it'll cost a good few bucks there,

no stick to thailand.

[ROFL]

Gary you said it all. I hope those are the same rationales for why the vast majority of TV members are in this country. With your outlook, you're a credit to the expat community.

Yeah whatever, tell me this, if one of his children get sick is he going to let them die of natural causes because he couldnt find the right weed to give her/him like a "true" living the lifer or is he going to bring him/her to a city where all the evil dog eat dog Dr.s who had ambition enough to educate themselves live?

Will he pay to send his children to University on his fixed income?

Besides I doubt he could get the young pretty wife he has back in the states by telling her "hey lets move to the woods and eat weeds."

So if coming to an impoverished country to find a young lass and take advantage of the low cost of living because he has no responsibilities? back home is a credit then he is to be admired.

[Gary A]

That's a REALLY feeble example. They would be taken anywhere in the world. Why are you here?

Here's a little experiment for ya, take a truckload of TV's, Cell phones, Nice furniture, couple carriers worth of motor bikes and cars up to A's village.

Offer to give them to the villagers, "if they say no dont want them, were happy" Ill burn everything I own get rid of my clothes and go live in the jungle and eat nuts.

Its a garden of eden vs eating the apple thing.

[ROFL]

That's a REALLY feeble example. They would be taken anywhere in the world. Why are you here?

No its not G, its you who's decided they are happy with their lot in life.

How do you know this?

Face it lads, you've chosen Thailand because you can afford it. ie. YOU are the ones taking advantage of Thailands poverty and the possibility of it becoming more prosperous is in direct conflict with YOUR chosen lifestyle.

The Shiny happy people you describe for the most part had no choice.

Dont worry, theres plenty of countrys a lot further "behind" Thailand, so if the shit hits the fan you'll have a place to go eek out an existence.

Be honest with yourself, had you plenty of money would you be living in a village? Would your sweet young thang say "no honey lets not go to the grocery store, Id rather barter for weeds".

Your choice was primarily based on your financial situation, not your desire to live like Robinson Curusoe.

Edited June 6, 2006 by ROFL

[thankuverybig]

how are tourists,who are pumping money into thailands economy,taking advantage of anyone?

we are welcolmed here, & tolerated here because we do so.

[ColPyat]

At least the farang that go to soapy pay more, if anything its the Thai men who are "really" taking advantage of poverty. If they were so concerned they would pay what farang pay.

Unbelievable with what kind of stereotypes you throw around in this thread. Where did you learn them, from a bargirl?

Lets look at this single argument here, Thai men pay less for "a soapy" then farang men.

Hmmm...yes... only that the most expensive member clubs in Thailand cater almost exclusively for Thai men (and some for Thai women as well). The amounts of money to be spent there are mindblowing, and does not even include sex yet.

I don't think you have ever been on a night out with Thai men either, if you think that Thai men are stingy.

It's rather sad - every single argument you make about Thais are so flawed that it is embarrassing. They consist of crude generalisations and barstool stereotypes, even bordering on racism. Every Thai speaker here, regardless of how he stands regarding Thailand being backward or not, has taken your simplistic observations based on your "educated viewpoint" on Thai culture apart, repeatedly.

When does the dime fall - that your observations on Thai people and Thai culture may not be that educated?

[ROFL]

how are tourists,who are pumping

money into thailands economy,taking advantage of anyone?

we are welcolmed here, & tolerated here because we do so.

Sorry, couldnt resist the temptation.

Simple answer to a simple question, right now were not discussing tourist.

Dont get me wrong guys, Ive had the same thoughts cross my mind quite often, i Ive gone through the "what's the least I could be happy with" stage many times in my life.

Im just being honest with ya and asking you to be honest with yourselves.

[Gary A]

Why does it bother you that I am happy here and you are OBVIOUSLY miserable. Your type would be miserable anywhere in the world. My 38 year old Thai wife never had any kids and never will. My kids are adults and probably older than you. My FIXED income is adequate enough to do whatever I like. I spend probably about 25 percent of what I could afford to spend.

How do I know the people here are happy? I see smiles everywhere I look and what I remember from The US is frowns and people running around with no time to enjoy life and smile. Miserable people don't have spontaneous parties and dance where I came from.

You live as you wish to live and I'll live as I choose to live. I choose to live in a village. If I wanted to live in the city I'd move back to MY condo in Jomtien.

That's a REALLY feeble example. They would be taken anywhere in the world. Why are you here?

No its not G, its you who's decided they are happy with their lot in life.

How do you know this?

Face it lads, you've chosen Thailand because you can afford it. ie. YOU are the ones taking advantage of Thailands poverty and the possibility of it becoming more prosperous is in direct conflict with YOUR chosen lifestyle.

Dont worry, theres plenty of countrys a lot further "behind" Thailand, so if the shit hits the fan you'll have a place to go eek out an existence.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Gary A

[ROFL]

At least the farang that go to soapy pay more, if anything its the Thai men who are "really" taking advantage of poverty. If they were so concerned they would pay what farang pay.

Unbelievable with what kind of stereotypes you throw around in this thread. Where did you learn them, from a bargirl?

Lets look at this single argument here, Thai men pay less for "a soapy" then farang men.

Hmmm...yes... only that the most expensive member clubs in Thailand cater almost exclusively for Thai men (and some for Thai women as well). The amounts of money to be spent there are mindblowing, and does not even include sex yet.

I don't think you have ever been on a night out with Thai men either, if you think that Thai men are stingy.

It's rather sad - every single argument you make about Thais are so flawed that it is embarrassing. They consist of crude generalisations and barstool stereotypes, even bordering on racism. Every Thai speaker here, regardless of how he stands regarding Thailand being backward or not, has taken your simplistic observations based on your "educated viewpoint" on Thai culture apart, repeatedly.

When does the dime fall - that your observations on Thai people and Thai culture may not be that educated?

LOL, wrong again Col, go to ANY soapy and there is dual pricing. hel_l go to the amusement park and there is dual pricing.

Dont give me this bordering on racism crap, thats not racist, its fact.

Thai men visit brothels and they didnt start doing it because of the GI's, they've been doing it for centuries.

Nobody has taken anything Ive said apart because Ive not really commented on Thai culture that much in this thread...Ive only been told time and time again that I cannot because I dont speak thai.

Your problem is you've been here too long and have become comfortable in your little niche which has resulted in a micro view of Thai culture.

ie. the people you know and hang with.

Whats wrong with simplistic observations? especially when they are true?

Your comments are pretty hilarious though, especially

only that the most expensive member clubs in Thailand cater almost exclusively for Thai men (and some for Thai women as well). The amounts of money to be spent there are mindblowing, and does not even include sex yet

<deleted> point are you trying to make with that?

[ROFL]

Why does it bother you that I am happy here and you are OBVIOUSLY miserable.

I havent once talked about "myself" or my life here and Ive never said Im miserable.

Were talking about you Gary, because your the one who felt the need to express how "happy" you are living in a village eating weeds and drinking beer with a young wife.

Why are so many young people moving from the happy shiny villages to BK? Why do they answer, "no job, no future" when asked why?

Why is the goverment of Thailand running a program to introduce rice cultivation to city kids because they are afraid that they are losing their agro industry?

Again, "you've" decided that whats best is to keep your villagers in dark, uneducated and doomed to a generational cycle of poverty because if they were to suddenly have the oppurtunity to get an education and aspire to a more prosperous lifestyle you would be shit out of luck.

As long as Thai's stay impoverished you have your lifestyle. Progress, or intellectual, culturlal and financial success for the average Thai spells doom for you.

Thats why you hate it so.

nuff said

Edited June 6, 2006 by ROFL

[Ulysses G.]

The point is if you can only get sex by flying to Thailand you are a social misfit. If you dont but come just for sex then you are just taking advantage of poverty...not morally upstanding either.

This is a load of politically correct cr*p.

If a rich guy in America or Europe courts a girl in a poor family, no one accuses him of "taking advantage of poverty". He's just a man, doing what comes naturally, and it is up to her to respond or reject him and, quite often, she will go for it.

The only difference is that, In Thailand, WE are the rich guys for a change!

[Thaising]

Why Thailand is backward, it is partly the greedy politicians that are pulling the country behind. We are not here to take advantage, and in fact are pumping the money on the economic and uplifting the living standard for our thai family. Don't you see is right and be justified.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Thaising

[thankuverybig]

there are, believe it or not, people who are tired of working to just, "get ahead in the world",& for status,the nice house,flash car.

the rat race.

not all of us care if were seen doing well in the world,& more & more people want to escape that mentality & look for something different.

good luck to the gogetem buisiness types on this thread,but im curious as to why the people who are critizing the way things are here,are not earning there fortune in whatever wealthy country there from.

be honest,youre here mainly for the cheap beer,lifestyle,etc.

the "backward" way they go about buisiness here comes along way down the line.

[Siripon]

how are tourists,who are pumping

money into thailands economy,taking advantage of anyone?

we are welcolmed here, & tolerated here because we do so.

Sorry, couldnt resist the temptation.

Simple answer to a simple question, right now were not discussing tourist.

Dont get me wrong guys, Ive had the same thoughts cross my mind quite often, i Ive gone through the "what's the least I could be happy with" stage many times in my life.

Im just being honest with ya and asking you to be honest with yourselves.

Please tell me about your knowledge of upcountry, ROFL, which provinces,districts have you visited?

[Plus]

It's frustrating to read so many emotionally charged posts that are completely off topic.

It's "Why Thailand is so backward". Not "why you are here" and "who are you to voice an opinion" piss contests.

In fact we more or less know why Thailand appears so backward, what about it's future? Should it join the rat race or should it take it slowly, at it's own pace?

Should people develop the "drive" or should they learn how to live happily with what they have? Should people be "content" or "driven"?

Should people work 60 hour weeks like Americans or 30 hour weeks like Europeans? Is Japan a model for Asian development?

Which Asian society is the best model for Thailand to follow? I think Thais can learn a lot from Malaysians. Or should they look up to Koreans? Or Taiwanese?

[Octaviousbp]

To answer the original question, the academic in me wants to say that it is a question of epistemology (the study of knowledge or "how do we know what we know") and ontology (the study of being). More simply, I think the "backwardness" of Thailand refers to your point of view.

Do you believe that history is linnear, from point A to B, from traditional to modern. Or do you believe in a plurality of histories? And if so, to whom are histories relevant (ie: individuals? cities? countries? civilizations?)

If you believe in the former version of history (modernist point of view), and adopt economics as an indicator of development along the road to modernization, than I suppose Thailand may be seen as backwards. Of course, Thailand can also be construed as culturally "backward" if you subscribe to modernism, because the end result ( point B ) is a destination characterized by homogenization. Right now, this homogonization is mostly considered to be Western culture.

If you adopt the latter viewpoint, that history can be plural and relative, then a comparison with the West becomes more difficult. In this case, the concepts of backwardness and progress are more ambiguous.

This seems kind of familiar to me, and I might have posted it earlier on a different thread. Sorry if I did.

As for myself, I don't think Thailand is "backwards" and that it lags behind Western countries. But on the other hand, by no means do I think things are hunky-dory across the board within the country, regardless of ones point of view. I think the issue is certainly complex and there are many things to take into consideration when considering whether or not it is indeed backwards.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Octaviousbp

[An Yai]

Yes, Thailand has the available hot chicks, without them this place is toast, I mean toast

I pity you for not fully realising what Thailand has to offer...

totster

No, he does realize exactly what Thailand has to offer, even if its not a particularly original observation to say it.

This guy merely repeats what uncounted other people say all the time and he's instantly denounced here as a social mitfit. Good Lord. The board is at least being consistent in its blind, unstinting boosterism about Thailand, isn't it?

falling behind yes it is true

agree with mono and OAH also

wonder what toaster is talking about? anything to support this wishful position?

----

an

[ColPyat]

If you adopt the latter viewpoint, that history can be plural and relative, then a comparison with the West becomes more difficult. In this case, the concepts of backwardness and progress are more ambiguous.

Excellent point.

My views on Thailand being backward are more concerned with the level of social conflict than pure economic terms. And in this i do see alarming trends.

The political (and economical) difficulties i view as products, or manifestations, of those social conflicts this society is slipping into.

In pure economical terms presently Thailand is doing well compared to most of its neighbors (apart from Malaysia and Singapore), though is Thailand's economical position threatened by unsolved and still semi-hidden social conflicts.

The trend over the last years has been a steady rise in crime, especially violent crime. Gang activities have reached epidemic proportions in industrial areas with a large migrant population. The polarisation along socio-economical and regional lines of Thai society is worrying, and can be clearly seen at the present political crises.

The steady collapse of village societies should be evident. Drug abuse has been enormous until the heavy handed policies of the present government (and will likely reach similar levels as before when the government cannot afford anymore the extremely repressive policing). The debt situation of those villagers is bad. Land right issues are a huge problem.

Maybe "backward" is a misleading term, but it should be evident that Thailand is caught in a very worrying situation. Especially i do miss practical solutions to practical problems. What i see is attempts of social engeneering along ideological dogmas (reintroducing "ethics" into politics along religious lines, renewed calls for a larger role of monarchy in politics due to the failures of political parties, etc.), calls for a complete opening of Thailand to the "market", and the reverse, calls for a more nationalist/isolationist approach.

It appears to me that the intelligentia here is at a loss what to do, and grasps for straws.

Edited June 6, 2006 by ColPyat

[thankuverybig]

*******personal attacks aren't needed, take your flaming somewhere else********

/post deleted

Edited June 6, 2006 by cdnvic

[Tony Montana]

Just catching up with this interesting thread (not because I'm backward,but in a different timezone!)

Slightly of topic but why do people get so personal & derogatory on these forum's,it seems a little like road rage,people turning into monster's because the person in front didn't indicate or someone getting to a parking space before you,but once your on foot everything change's the words like 'excuse me','after you' are often used.Once they get behind that keyboard they turn into the monster again,just human nature I suppose.Everybody is entitled to their opinion,if you dont agree thats fine but you dont have to slag that person off.Its ironic that we're discussing whether Thailand is backward as a nation,when its obvious that intelligent people cant discuss the subject in a civilised manner.

[cdnvic]

Just catching up with this interesting thread (not because I'm backward,but in a different timezone!)

Slightly of topic but why do people get so personal & derogatory on these forum's,it seems a little like road rage,people turning into monster's because the person in front didn't indicate or someone getting to a parking space before you,but once your on foot everything change's the words like 'excuse me','after you' are often used.Once they get behind that keyboard they turn into the monster again,just human nature I suppose.Everybody is entitled to their opinion,if you dont agree thats fine but you dont have to slag that person off.Its ironic that we're discussing whether Thailand is backward as a nation,when its obvious that intelligent people cant discuss the subject in a civilised manner.

People are alot braver behind a keyboard than in person. You can tell the truely civilized by how they maintain common courtesy even when they are fairly annonymous and have little to gain by it.

cv

[Martin]

"People are alot braver behind a keyboard than in person. You can tell the truely civilized by how they maintain common courtesy even when they are fairly annonymous and have little to gain by it."

Yes. Behind a keyboard and behind a 'username' lies a different (id)entity.

[Totster]

wonder what toaster is talking about? anything to support this wishful position?

----

an

You know exactly what I mean... I wonder who you are a reincarnation of..

totster

[monochaser]

I like that road rage analogy Tony. Are you a political prisoner from cuba?

[alexth]

Yes, Thailand has the available hot chicks, without them this place is toast, I mean toast

Yes, Thailand has the available hot chicks, without them this place is toast, I mean toast

I pity you for not fully realising what Thailand has to offer...

totster

Yeah, it has katoeys too

C'mon Monochaser, it's not that bad...I've realized the other benefits of living in Thailand right after the first week, it has good things and bad things, just like every country, they are a little backward regarding education and culture, but you can still find zounds of good and honest people that deserve respect, they do have a history and a culture and they stick to it, it deserves some appreciation.

Should I continue with the landscapes, beaches, monuments, etc., etc....I think you just need a holiday.

Cheers,

Alex

[Gary A]

Let's compare backwards Thailand to a dynamic strong Asian economy. A few years ago I worked in Korea for six weeks. South Korea is the most nationalistic country I have ever seen. People busting their tails keeping up with their neighbors and strong unions going on strike for higher wages. I have no idea how country life is there because the people I worked for had no time for touring and enjoying themselves. Prices are VERY high compared to Thailand. I looked for and could NOT see many smiling faces. If I had gone to South Korea before I lived in Thailand I would have gone back to the states and would have NEVER considered living in Asia.

The gangs of juveniles terrorizing tourist areas is disturbing to say the least. Thailand is trying hard to become a first world country but is it worth it?

It is still better than living in Southern California. It is NOT safe to go out after dark in many areas. Is that how you want to live?

Edited June 7, 2006 by Gary A

[ovenman]

Which Asian society is the best model for Thailand to follow? I think Thais can learn a lot from Malaysians.

For an insightful look at backwards-ness as it pertains to Malaysia, I highly recommend reading The Malay Dilemma by Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad. Published in 1970, a year after Malaysia's race riots, the book was banned for years in Malaysia for its frank discussion of many of the topics touched upon in this thread. Dr. M was the chief architect of the Wawasan 2020 plan for making Malaysia a fully-developed country by the year 2020 that was touched upon in this thread's original post.

[Plus]

Ovenman, why don't you just tell us what's in the book. You don't really expect to run off to Asiabooks, read it, then come back to reply to your post. Internet doesn't work that way. Links to websites is as far as people go.

Malaysia's incomes and standards of living are roughly double that of Thailand, inequality is not as striking as in Thailand, and also people are as laid back as here. It's also a society build on religious rather then secular principles. They have their problems, but they also claim being an example Muslim country - religious but modern.