Why Is Thailand So Backward?

[ROFL]

Western and Japanese investment has always been here. Now, Indian, and Chinese, and Middle Eastern investment is STREAMING in. You needn't shed any tears about how Thailand's foreign direct investment outlook is falling apart.

The main people who are singing the blues around Thailand are the sex tourists, and the refugees from socialized Western economies that tax the everloving daylights out of ther hard-working citizens, to subsidize unassimilated masses of hostile immigrants.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

First paragraph, WRONG. How many links do you want me to post?

2nd Paragraph, on this forum maybe so, but beyond TV its the investors who are LEAVING Thailand.

Do you read the paper? BKP, Nation, NYT's?

[Prakanong2005]

Colypat

And the idea Singaporeans are rushing to open business's in Thailand is to avoid National Service is absolutely hilarious.

Mind-boggling, indeed...

Now we know why Temasek bought Shin Corp - brokered through the Indo-Siam business transfer specialists

Edited June 3, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[ROFL]

That's an interesting concept though.How many people here would have come or kept visiting Thailand if the shelias were not so available? (and I'm not just talking BG's here!)

But.. we're not talking about repeat tourism.. The fact still remains that many many people come to Thailand for reasons other than Sheilas...

totster

Whats the big deal T? You're denying the obvious.

Answer me this, why are there so few Western Women here?

Im not saying that there aren't lots of other "good" things about Thailand, but if all these other "reasons" for coming here were "why" people come here then one would think there would be a shit load of western women here. The fact is there arent many western women here when compared to the amount of men.

So denying that the pretty sights are the main pull for people visiting Thailand is putting your head in the sand and denying the reality of Thailand.

Edited June 3, 2006 by ROFL

[ROFL]

From CIA World Fact Book - http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html (for what that's worth - I assume that it is reasonably accurate, with respect to economic data):

GDP per capita (2005)

Singapore - US $28,00

Malaysia - US $12,100

Thailand - US $8,300

Philippines - US $5,100

Indonesia - US 3,600

Vietnam - US $2,800

Cambodia - US $2,200

Laos - US $1,900

Myanmar/Burma - US $1,700

GDP (purchasing power parity): - and GDP Growth Rate

Indonesia - US $865.6 Billion - 5.6%

Thailand - US $560.7 Billion - 4.5%

Philippines - US $451.3 Billion - 5.1%

Malaysia - US $290.2 Billion - 5.3%

Vietnam - US $232.2 Billion - 8.4%

Singapore - US $124.3 Billion - 6.4%

Myanmar/Burma - US $78.74 Billion - 2.9%

Cambodia - US $30.65 Billion - 6.0%

Laos - US $11.92 Billion - 7.2%

For Reference:

Australia - US $640.1 Billion - 2.5% GDP per capita: US $31,900

Germany - US $2.504 Trillion - 0.9% GDP per capita: US $30,400

Japan - US $4.018 Trillion - 2.7% GDP per capita: US $31,500

UK - US $1.869 Trillion - 1.7% GDP per capita: US $30,900

USA - US $12.36 Trillion - 3.5% GDP per capita: US $41,800

So - tell me again how Thailand's neighbors are tearing it to pieces with their economic success - because I just don't see it. Thailand has slower growth - but it is a lot harder to move a large economy by a few percentge points, than a smaller economy.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Well BILL GATES just visited Vietnam, and not Thailand.

You're missing the point, the point isnt that these other countries now have a higher GDP Thailand but the fact that the future growth of these countries is looking brighter, and Thailands is looking dimmer.

Its all over the press and the business journals I-S, your just not paying attention.

[Prakanong2005]

"You're missing the point, the point isnt that these other countries now have a higher GDP Thailand but the fact that the future growth of these countries is looking brighter, and Thailands is looking dimmer."

Exactly - it the idea Thailand might be on the cusp of falling behind and other places getting more inward investment and a better business environment - it may be improving elsewhere but Thailand is stagnant or slipping

Look at the case of the UK in 1870 - world leader

By the outbreak of WW1 others had caught up and were overtaking

Relative not absolute decline with its competitors but that obviously is too much to think about

[Totster]

That's an interesting concept though.How many people here would have come or kept visiting Thailand if the shelias were not so available? (and I'm not just talking BG's here!)

But.. we're not talking about repeat tourism.. The fact still remains that many many people come to Thailand for reasons other than Sheilas...

totster

Whats the big deal T? You're denying the obvious.

Answer me this, why are there so few Western Women here?

Im not saying that there aren't lots of other "good" things about Thailand, but if all these other "reasons" for coming here were "why" people come here then one would think there would be a shit load of western women here. The fact is there arent many western women here when compared to the amount of men.

So denying that the pretty sights are the main pull for people visiting Thailand is putting your head in the sand and denying the reality of Thailand.

What ??

I haven't said NO ONE comes for the women.. I said it's not the ONLY reason people come to Thailand..

So where's the denial... ? where's the head in the sand..?

totster

[toptuan]

Personally I think the Thai Government and Culture is mainly to be blamed by 'missing' the boat and economical slipping further downwards.

I don't know about Malaysia but I've done business in the past with countries like Thailand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and China (apart from Europe and North America).

The difference in business attitude, workmanship, speed, and so many more things which are important to do business, is enormous and a night-and-day difference with Thailand, being Thailand a nightmare, which I left doing business with, after trying for some years.

I'm not the only one since a couple of businessfriends acknowledged the same to me and ALL left Thailand, doing business now in countries like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea.

De deliveries were a complete disaster and I lost a huge amount of money. And this was with larger companies.

I don't know if any of you visited China in the past few months/years but what's going on there is completely MIND-BOGGLING.

The people...ALL THE PEOPLE...are working so hard that's it is unbelievable.

They have a 'drive' which can't be compared to the Thai in general; the Thai (and I am really sorry to say this) are lazy, in comparison to the Chinese.

I still love Thailand very much...going on Holiday... but not for business anymore.

NO WAY!

Ooops...maybe I've stepped on some toes here

LaoPo

Almost exactly the same experience here, too. With 20 years of successful export experience, I went into partnership with a local Thai friend who had a good product and we had a good market (Costco in USA--huge buyer/discount seller). It failed when partner, Thai suppliers, Thai shippers had no sense of urgency about shipping times, accuracy of orders, meeting the customers' simple requests (samples, copies of documents, etc.). Sad, but seems pandemic in Thailand.

[ROFL]

That's an interesting concept though.How many people here would have come or kept visiting Thailand if the shelias were not so available? (and I'm not just talking BG's here!)

But.. we're not talking about repeat tourism.. The fact still remains that many many people come to Thailand for reasons other than Sheilas...

totster

Whats the big deal T? You're denying the obvious.

Answer me this, why are there so few Western Women here?

Im not saying that there aren't lots of other "good" things about Thailand, but if all these other "reasons" for coming here were "why" people come here then one would think there would be a shit load of western women here. The fact is there arent many western women here when compared to the amount of men.

So denying that the pretty sights are the main pull for people visiting Thailand is putting your head in the sand and denying the reality of Thailand.

What ??

I haven't said NO ONE comes for the women.. I said it's not the ONLY reason people come to Thailand..

So where's the denial... ? where's the head in the sand..?

totster

OK, we've just plummeted into the pit of semantics.

No worries, I now understand that you understand that the majority of visitors and ex-pats are attracted by the volume and availability of pretty women in Thailand.

Dont take it so personally, people move from Idaho to Miami or Californias beaches for the pretty women.

Now back to what this thread is really about, the future of Thailands economy....

Ill make one statement about it. What made Thailand so attractive to investors was that there were NO other options (or very few) the past decade or so. Now there are many and Thailand is going to have to accept that their piece of the pie is going to now be shared by others who they were not competing with in the past.

ex.

Private sector invited to Vietnam rice summit

PHUSADEE ARUNMAS

Ho Chi Minh City _ The private sector will be represented at a rice convention planned by Thailand and Vietnam in the middle of this month, said Somkid Jatusripitak, caretaker deputy prime minister.

The venue has not been chosen but would likely be in Vietnam, Dr Somkid said after holding talks with Truong Dihn Tuyen, Vietnam's trade minister, at the Apec meetings in Ho Chi Minh City.

The world's two largest rice exporters aim to use the convention to expand co-operation in rice trading and investment in order to stabilise world prices and curb price-cutting competition by exporters from both countries.

Past conventions had focused only on exchanges of information, said Dr Somkid, adding that some Thai businesses were interested in joint ventures in the rice business in Vietnam.

''Probably, there will be more co-operation [leading to an impact] in the international market,'' said Dr Somkid, who is also the acting commerce minister.

The value of rice shipments from Thailand to international markets dropped by 13% last year to US$2.3 billion, largely because the country's prices were higher than those quoted by competitors.

Thailand is GOING to Vietnam, not the other way around. You dont decide to Co-operate when you're in the drivers seat as Thailand has been in the past.

Thais frustrate me, I meet intelligent people all the time working in service and professional industries who have NO GOALS, NO PLAN beyond the day.

When I asked a group of 20-30 somethings where they wanted to be professionally in 5 years they had NO IDEA, they couldnt even fake it or make up it up.

I asked a server at a 4 star if he was going to apply for a Captains job he replied "too hard". Now if I had heard this only a few times I would have blown it off but I hear it all the time.

A young bloke who just had a baby told me that he wanted his son to be a soldier or a policeman when he grew up. When I asked why not a Dr. , Lawyer, or some other profession requiring an education he told me "too expensive", then he pulled out his 14,000baht cell phone and dowloaded a 100 baht ringtone.

I told him that if he put away 1,000baht a month he would have 240,000 baht by the time his child was 20 he looked confused.

Thats whats wrong with Thailands future.

All this being said, I like Thailand for lots of reasons, most of them I did not know about before coming here.

Edited June 3, 2006 by ROFL

[toptuan]

From CIA World Fact Book - http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html (for what that's worth - I assume that it is reasonably accurate, with respect to economic data):

GDP per capita (2005)

Singapore - US $28,00

Malaysia - US $12,100

Thailand - US $8,300

Philippines - US $5,100

Indonesia - US 3,600

Vietnam - US $2,800

Cambodia - US $2,200

Laos - US $1,900

Myanmar/Burma - US $1,700

GDP (purchasing power parity): - and GDP Growth Rate

Indonesia - US $865.6 Billion - 5.6%

Thailand - US $560.7 Billion - 4.5%

Philippines - US $451.3 Billion - 5.1%

Malaysia - US $290.2 Billion - 5.3%

Vietnam - US $232.2 Billion - 8.4%

Singapore - US $124.3 Billion - 6.4%

Myanmar/Burma - US $78.74 Billion - 2.9%

Cambodia - US $30.65 Billion - 6.0%

Laos - US $11.92 Billion - 7.2%

For Reference:

Australia - US $640.1 Billion - 2.5% GDP per capita: US $31,900

Germany - US $2.504 Trillion - 0.9% GDP per capita: US $30,400

Japan - US $4.018 Trillion - 2.7% GDP per capita: US $31,500

UK - US $1.869 Trillion - 1.7% GDP per capita: US $30,900

USA - US $12.36 Trillion - 3.5% GDP per capita: US $41,800

So - tell me again how Thailand's neighbors are tearing it to pieces with their economic success - because I just don't see it. Thailand has slower growth - but it is a lot harder to move a large economy by a few percentge points, than a smaller economy.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Well BILL GATES just visited Vietnam, and not Thailand.

You're missing the point, the point isnt that these other countries now have a higher GDP Thailand but the fact that the future growth of these countries is looking brighter, and Thailands is looking dimmer.

Its all over the press and the business journals I-S, your just not paying attention.

ROFL's got a point; also read this in the business journals. I've made two recent trips to Vietnam and while the rural population probably drags down some of those statistics (per capita income), the larger cities and business climate there have already passed up Thailand in terms of drive, efficiency, and meeting or surpassing international business standards.

Edited June 3, 2006 by toptuan

[Prakanong2005]

"Now, Indian, and Chinese, and Middle Eastern investment is STREAMING in"

Did you not post on this board or the other board named after a go go area you would not deal with these people for some reason?

Edited June 3, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[Prakanong2005]

FDI Report from 2005 - mixed I would say

This is the Asia review and

"Asia

Asia's FDI inflows reached $155.5 billion, an unprecedented $48.6 billion increase over the year before. Asia is attracting nearly one in four global FDI dollars compared to only one in 10 in 2000. The top five host economies—China, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and India—account for 80 percent of the flows to the region. Although greenfield investments continue to be the dominant form of FDI to the region, mergers and acquisitions are playing a more important role. In 2004, cross-border M&A deals amounted to $25 billion—up from $22 billion in 2003—and were primarily concentrated in China, South Korea and Hong Kong.

China and India are considered the world's 1st and 2nd most attractive FDI locations globally. China held the top spot for the forth year in a row and India rose from 3rd to 2nd place, surpassing the United States. Hong Kong and South Korea dipped slightly from 8th to 10th and 21st to 23rd, respectively. Singapore and Thailand maintained their positions at 18th and 20th place. "

"Thailand. Thailand holds steady at 20th place for the second consecutive year. U.S. investors express less interest in the Thai market, while Australian investors are more interested, ranking it their 7th most attractive market (up from 11th in 2004). The Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, which went into effect in 2005, creates more market opportunities for Australian companies in Thailand. French, U.K. and Swiss investors also show increased FDI confidence in Thailand. After reaching $1.9 billion in 2003—more than double the amount in 2002—FDI fell to $1.4 billion in 2004. 11

Financial services investors are more eager to commit FDI in Thailand as they gear up for the liberalization of Thailand's financial services market, which is expected to follow the current period of consolidation. Corporations' continued migration toward bond and equity finance, and away from banks, is expected to help increase stock market capitalization. After ceasing to issue new banking licenses for two years, the Bank of Thailand, plans to permit the resumption of foreign competition. In 2005, UOB (Singapore) acquired Bank of Asia from ABN AMRO, thus confirming Singapore's strong outlook on Thailand.

Transportation equipment investors rank Thailand 5th in the Index (up from 20th in 2004), confirming Thailand's place as a hub for automotive production. The automotive industry accounts for roughly 16 percent of Thailand's GDP and employs about 8 percent of the country's workforce. The government's effort to create an integrated automotive hub for the ASEAN region has spurred clusters of production and a network of auto-parts suppliers. Thailand's automotive industry is also benefiting from foreign carmakers' desire to diversify within the region, serving as a hedge against China.

Japanese investors continue to view Thailand favorably, ranking it their 12th most attractive FDI location for a second consecutive year. Toyota plans to expand its vehicle production capacity in Thailand over the next few years, making Thailand its third largest production base after Japan and the United States. Isuzu also plans to invest, and Honda is building a second R&D center in Thailand to better serve its Asian market.

The telecom and utilities sectors express significantly less confidence in the Thai market in 2005. Despite Thailand's commitment to liberalize the telecom market by 2006, investors

are disappointed by the slow pace of reform, lack of a sound regulatory climate, and continued limitations on foreign ownership. For example, Orange (France) is reducing its Thai holdings. However, primary sector investors rank Thailand their 12th most attractive market, up from 20th in 2004. Also, one in five oil and gas investors is more upbeat about the Thai market."

http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,3,1,140,11

Edited June 3, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[Prakanong2005]

UNCTAD Table

Take a look down the page at the Top 10 in the Region

Vietnam and Malaysia appear but Thailand does not

Look at table 2

Thailand has no TNC's investing outside making its mark

Name Thai company's doing well or even with major offices overseas?

CP has an office in London has it not

[Indo-Siam]

Well, it is really hard to get good data on Foreign Direct Investment, by country, that is more recent than about 2004.

But - if you look at http://www.unctad.org/sections/dite_dir/do..._inflows_en.xls and total up all inbound FDI into Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam for 2001-2004, the total of all inbound FDI into those four countries is US $7.384 billion. For that same four-year period, inbound FDI into Thailand alone was $7.849 billon. Clearly, Thailand is not being "crushed" by those countries.

Inbound FDI into Malaysia 2001-2004 was $10.854 billion - 38% higher than Thailand. That's no big surprise to me.

Now, what will happen going forward? 'Can't say for sure. My guess is that Vietnam will catch up to Thailand, and both Thailand and Vietnam will close the gap with Malaysia. Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar will remain insignificant for at least the next 50 years.

What's interesting to me is that there is actually a magazine - with website that is called Foreign Direct Investment (see http://www.fdimagazine.com/). When you click on their FactFile index, the only two Southeast Asian countries that they even include are Singpore, and Thailand. They don't even consider the other countries in Southeast Asia.

Of all nationalities, my company has created more Thai companies for Singaporean investors than any other nationality. More than 10 times, I have been involved in preparing documentation for Singporean investors in Thailand to obtain exemption from National Service - every one of them could have returned for that duty - not a single one did. Not a single one of them was an officer in the Singporean military - I have met Singaporean officers in Singapore - but I have yet to meet a single one based in Thailand.

So - passive readers can listen to the posters in this thread who post under ficticious board names, and have been registered for between four and 14 months - and who have ZERO data for their false assertions, or you can listen to someone who works every day in this field.

The existing Bangkok airport is the third busiest in Asia (see http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/display/ma...i&cp=1-5_9_2__) and I suspect that it will retain this position once the new airport opens.

The biggest change I see on the horizon is the ecominic growth that will occur in the north over the next 20 years, following completion of the Mekong River bridge at Mukdhan later this year. This will open up an overland freight route from Assam, India to Danang, Vietnam. This route will eventually intersect with a similar rote down from Kunming, China, to Singapore - which will also run through Thailand. All that will then be needed is to lay a double set of rail tracks along these routes (all rail lines in Thailand are presently single track - which prevents traffic from simultaneously moving in both directions). But - I have set up and attended meetings at the offices of the State Railway of Thailand between representatives of a direct foreign government investment arm that is already looking into funding such investment.

Let's revisit this discussion in June 2009, and we'll see if Thailand "fell off the map" - or whether it continues to boom.

One thing I will concur with (not mentioned in this discussion thread) is that a property bubble is going to burst soon - mainly inovolving an excess of over-priced, high-end condos. But - it won't bring the economy down. World oil prices might do that, under some scenarios - but in those cases, Thailand won't lose any ground in relation to its neighbors.

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaitradedata.com

www.thaistartup.com

www.bangkokstaff.com

[Prakanong2005]

"o - passive readers can listen to the posters in this thread who post under ficticious board names,"

And you market yourself at this group constantly just as you did on sexpat and sex tourist boards - even sponsoring on one of them (a sex tourist board aimed at users of the nightlife in soi 4).

"or you can listen to someone who works every day in this field."

And someone working in only that field may not be able to see the wood from the tree's - you are not exactly at the top end of the market are you?

Did you look at table 1 I mentioned above on the same site you quote?

"Of all nationalities, my company has created more Thai companies for Singaporean investors than any other nationality. More than 10 times, I have been involved in preparing documentation for Singporean investors in Thailand to obtain exemption from National Service - every one of them could have returned for that duty - not a single one did. Not a single one of them was an officer in the Singporean military - I have met Singaporean officers in Singapore - but I have yet to meet a single one based in Thailand."

So you still assert Singaporeans are opening companies in Thailand just to avoid NS?

Weird

"Let's revisit this discussion in June 2009, and we'll see if Thailand "fell off the map" - or whether it continues to boom."

2009 is very short sighted (what else) is it not in terms of economic history but there again its all you got.

Thailand is holding its own at the moment but the business environment in other countries is improving with no sight of that in Thailand

Corruption, the rule of law are all disincentives and more might just be offered elsewhere.

Maybe you could re-invent yourself as Indo-China?

Edited June 3, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[Prakanong2005]

Thailands figures from 1996 to 2004

2 338 3 882 7 492 6 091 3 350 3 886 947 1 952 1 064

Is there enough data to go on?

Wait 10 more years not 2 to have at least a chance of being realistic.

Being incentivised to talk this up as advertorials just like real estate agents have been recently is no basis for rational discourse.

[Indo-Siam]

Well, I figured that 2006 won't be fair - because Temasek (which is the investment arm of Singapore's government) alone invested well over US $1.0 billion in Shin and AIS already this year. Do you really think that Vietnam is going to reflect more FDI than Thailand for 2006?

Last month my company obtained BOI approval for a very large South African soft drink bottler, that relocated its Asian regional headquarters TO Thailand FROM Vietnam - because they were having so much trouble trying to get things set up in Vietnam.

My own little company has already assisted foreign investors in registering small companies in Thailand with total registered capital of well over 100 million baht - probably closer now to 200 million baht.

You are wasting your time trying to make me feel bad about testing out advertising effectiveness on various English-language discussion boards - all of which had business sections on their forums. I test out lots of things - experimenting with marketing channels is a key to being successful here.

Steve

Indo-Siam

[fox]

Thailand must be brave enough to face realities.

It is a fact that the tourism industry is the biggest money earner

for Thailand. It is the no one economic survival. What makes Thailand

so popuplar and successful in the tourism industry. The only answer

is the sex related industry.

Let me give you some facts. Hatyai, (Thailand's third city) situated in

the South is a city that survives solely on visitors from Malaysia and Singapore.

About 40 years ago, Hatyai was just a cowboy (village) town with a few modern buildings.

Today it has grown up to be Thailand's third city, modern and full of life with the exciting

and fantastic night life. The sex related industry is the biggest attraction.

Every day, no fewer than five thousand visitors from Malaysia and Singapore go in. On weekends

and holidays, it would be full house. All hotels, ranging from 5 star to 1 star, would be fully booked.

They drive in by car, by bus, by tour bus, by motor-cycle, by van, and some just walk in.

Today, the restaurants, shops, mini cabs, and the sex related industry and the hotels are very badly effected.

Because of the Southern Thailand insurgency, the number of visitors have dropped down to a certain level.

Lately when I was there, I could see that the restaurants, shops and the night life industry were not as crowded as before.

I was informed that the tourism industry has dropped down to more than 70%. That means less than 30% vistors are going in.

[Prakanong2005]

"You are wasting your time trying to make me feel bad about testing out advertising effectiveness on various English-language discussion boards"

Its just that you chose to say that sex tourists and I suppose you meant sexpats too were the only ones complaining (oh and people from high tax regimes ) when you were one yourself and market to them.

I love the bit about people from high tax regimes - do you have any evidence of that?

Ie they complain more in a statistically significant way give population etc or is this just you trying soun dclever and looking but instead pompously silly again?

[ROFL]

So - passive readers can listen to the posters in this thread who post under ficticious board names, and have been registered for between four and 14 months - and who have ZERO data for their false assertions, or you can listen to someone who works every day in this field.

.

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaitradedata.com

www.thaistartup.com

www.bangkokstaff.com

LOL, you were on to something till you started puffing your chest.

Then I looked at your client list....

If your going to pull it out, you better make sure its bigger first.

[ROFL]

My own little company has already assisted foreign investors in registering small companies in Thailand with total registered capital of well over 100 million baht - probably closer now to 200 million baht.

So you work for the mob eh?

I’m just pulling your chain because you've gotten so defensive about the discussion.

Anyway, good on you for making something here in Thailand, and I wouldn’t mind sitting down with you sometime and having a drink and discussing solar power.

The only point I’ve been trying to get across is that THAILAND was once one of a very few options and now that has changed but Thailand's policies, institutions and work ethic haven’t.

Edited June 3, 2006 by ROFL

[Prakanong2005]

My own little company has already assisted foreign investors in registering small companies in Thailand with total registered capital of well over 100 million baht - probably closer now to 200 million baht.

So you work for the mob eh?

You might want to spend less time here and more time travelling to other countries drumming up business.

That 50 small companies registered at 2 million THB each - how much of that was paid up?

Even if all of it is paid up its one new Ltd per week at what 15000THB?

[Kathe]

ROTFLMAO -

This thread contains some of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on Thaivisa.

Laos ahead of Thailand? What are you smoking? More Thais speak English than the entire population of Laos. Laos is a landlocked country with only three industry sectors: mining, hydroelectric power genertion, and garment manufacturing. There is nothing else.

Cambodia? 80% of the government officials in Camboia never even attended university - many never even graduated from high school (not their fault - most educated persons were slaughtered back in "Year Zero"). Chonburi provine has more paved roads than all of Cambodia.

Vietnam and Laos (alomng with China, North Korea, and Cuba)are still Communist Countries. You still have to join the Communist Party to be a first-class citizen.

Try talking to Westerners who hve run busineses in Vietnam - they will tell you horror strories about the beuracracy that make Thailand look like a model of efficiency.

Singapore - well, its certainly well-educated and efficient. But - before you start trumpetting Singapore, you best check out a few things. Like the certificate of Entitlement rules for buying a car, or the waiting list for a new flt from the Housing Developmnt Board (imagine marrying your sweetheart in 2006, and signing up for your own apartment - which will becme available in 2013). Hey - but you can always drink and dance until dawn! Thaland is swarming with Singaporean start-up companies. Wh? One reason is that all Singporean men must serves their entire adult life in the military or military active reserves - and one of the few ways to escape annual service is to be posted to work outside Singapore.

Malaysia is a pretty good place. I just don't lke living in a collection of sultanates, each headed by a Muslim Sultan. With world trends going the way they are, I cant imagne ever wanting to put down roots, unless I converted to Islam. And pigs will fly befre that ever happens.

Western and Japanese investment has always been here. Now, Indian, and Chinese, and Middle Eastern investment is STREAMING in. You needn't shed any tears about how Thailand's foreign direct investment outlook is falling apart.

The main people who are singing the blues around Thailand are the sex tourists, and the refugees from socialized Western economies that tax the everloving daylights out of ther hard-working citizens, to subsidize unassimilated masses of hostile immigrants.

We're also immigrants in Thailand - and way too many of us are "unassimilated." Let's not also be hostile.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Great post Indo-Siam. Belfastboy and Monochaser should inform more details about southeast asia and Thailand. Give your brian little broaded perspective before asking WHY...WHY...WHY...

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

OK, if you know thai only by hot chicks, that is your point of view. People can read you too , how many points of view you have. One never satisfy whatever doing.

Some likes to critizise ONLY but doing nothing. Giving us the hints how to develope ? Giving us the intelligent hints how to run FAST after the first world. Maybe we shall try to do it eventhough in a slow speed of time.

But anyway, I still love Thailand, and being proud to be Thai.

[toptuan]

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

But anyway, I still love Thailand, and being proud to be Thai.

Ah, but my Thai friend, the most successful export and international businesses based in the U.K. (or any other western country) DO speak Thai, Chinese, and Vietnamese!

As an expat, I love Thailand too, and I believe most of these comments are meant at helping to preserve Thailand's future economic security--something we all want. As a professor in one of your universities, I see first-hand that Thailand is seriously behind the international standard for English (the world language of international business) and quality education. I'm doing my part to try to reverse that trend.

It's all in a good spirit, and hope that you receive it that way!

[Kathe]

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

But anyway, I still love Thailand, and being proud to be Thai.

Ah, but my Thai friend, the most successful export and international businesses based in the U.K. (or any other western country) DO speak Thai, Chinese, and Vietnamese!

As an expat, I love Thailand too, and I believe most of these comments are meant at helping to preserve Thailand's future economic security--something we all want. As a professor in one of your universities, I see first-hand that Thailand is seriously behind the international standard for English (the world language of international business) and quality education. I'm doing my part to try to reverse that trend.

It's all in a good spirit, and hope that you receive it that way!

Will you wait another 10 years time, at that time, our English Education might be improved. Nowaday there are lots of English Teachers from oversea trying to help us. We shall wait and see whether our English quality as acceptable as international standard. English language is so difficult for us. Really.

[ROFL]

Great post Indo-Siam. Belfastboy and Monochaser should inform more details about southeast asia and Thailand. Give your brian little broaded perspective before asking WHY...WHY...WHY...

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

OK, if you know thai only by hot chicks, that is your point of view. People can read you too , how many points of view you have. One never satisfy whatever doing.

Some likes to critizise ONLY but doing nothing. Giving us the hints how to develope ? Giving us the intelligent hints how to run FAST after the first world. Maybe we shall try to do it eventhough in a slow speed of time.

But anyway, I still love Thailand, and being proud to be Thai.

You cant eat pride.

Why is everyone taking this so personally? If something is wrong the first step to fixing it is accepting it.

As for the comment in red thats the most ingnorant thing Ive read in this thread.

That attitude is why China, Vietnam and others will leave Thailand in the dust.

You sanuk the day away, because somewhere theres a vietnamese guy or a chinese girl busting his or her ass to make something for THEMSELVES, not US.

You need to stop looking at ENGLISH as an intrusive , destroyer of culture and embrace it as a way to communicate to the WORLD. (ie. not just england or USA) One problem I see with Thais and their false sense of pride is that 98% of THAIS have NEVER been to another country.

You remind me of the guy who said "University too expensive" when discussing the fact that he had 20 years to save for his childs education. He too accepts that "this is the way it is, the THAI way".

The thing is for a familly to break the cycle of "poverty" or medicore existance someone in that familly has to take a stand and SACRIFICE. This is not unique to Thailand but luckily for a lot of people in my generation our Grandfathers busted ass and sent their kids off to university.

There is a catch 22 to this, just how many generations can this sacrafice paid benefit the following generations. It seems that eventually this leads to spoiled and unmotivated individuals.....bah I wont go on, its probably a whole different topic for another thread.

nuff said by me on this thread, hope it all works out for everyone.

Edited June 3, 2006 by ROFL

[Thaising]

This guy merely repeats what uncounted other people say all the time and he's instantly denounced here as a social mitfit. Good Lord. The board is at least being consistent in its blind, unstinting boosterism about Thailand, isn't it?

No, most of us conceed that there are problems with Thailand. However there's that element of expats and visitors who are here just because they are not able to obtain either love or sex at home, and come here to buy or rent a reasonable facsimilie of it, and then when their shortcut around learning social skills fails they blame the whole country for their lack of success in life. Most people are too polite to say it but lets face it, there are alot of losers in Thailand hiding from the fact that they couldn't make it at home. When they fail here, either financially, or in a relationship, they blame Thailand for everything.

Fortunately there's many here who have seen it as an opportunity, or a second chance and have made the best of it, and appreciate what they've achieved. If you know these people, they're likely the ones who take personal responsibility for their situations, and you will rarely see them blaming other people or countries for their problems.

I'm sick of seeing people with screwed up lives blaming Thailand, or Thai women for all their troubles.

cv

I salute you CV for the above.

If there wasn’t a black sheep, they won’t be singing here and face the music.

Edited June 3, 2006 by Thaising

[Kathe]

Great post Indo-Siam. Belfastboy and Monochaser should inform more details about southeast asia and Thailand. Give your brian little broaded perspective before asking WHY...WHY...WHY...

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

OK, if you know thai only by hot chicks, that is your point of view. People can read you too , how many points of view you have. One never satisfy whatever doing.

Some likes to critizise ONLY but doing nothing. Giving us the hints how to develope ? Giving us the intelligent hints how to run FAST after the first world. Maybe we shall try to do it eventhough in a slow speed of time.

But anyway, I still love Thailand, and being proud to be Thai.

You cant eat pride.

Why is everyone taking this so personally? If something is wrong the first step to fixing it is accepting it.

As for the comment in red thats the most ingnorant thing Ive read in this thread.

That attitude is why China, Vietnam and others will leave Thailand in the dust.

You sanuk the day away, because somewhere theres a vietnamese guy or a chinese girl busting his or her ass to make something for THEMSELVES, not US.

You need to stop looking at ENGLISH as an intrusive , destroyer of culture and embrace it as a way to communicate to the WORLD. (ie. not just england or USA) One problem I see with Thais and their false sense of pride is that 98% of THAIS have NEVER been to another country.

You remind me of the guy who said "University too expensive" when discussing the fact that he had 20 years to save for his childs education. He too accepts that "this is the way it is, the THAI way".

The thing is for a familly to break the cycle of "poverty" or medicore existance someone in that familly has to take a stand and SACRIFICE. This is not unique to Thailand but luckily for a lot of people in my generation our Grandfathers busted ass and sent their kids off to university.

There is a catch 22 to this, just how many generations can this sacrafice paid benefit the following generations. It seems that eventually this leads to spoiled and unmotivated individuals.....bah I wont go on, its probably a whole different topic for another thread.

nuff said by me on this thread, hope it all works out for everyone.

On your red paragraph was my irony. The whole post was also irony to the one who always asking..why why...

I know exactly that language is important for us nowaday and for the new generation too. That is why we hire more efficiant Teachers , narrative teachers from overseas to improve our children.

We are tying hard to improve.

[~G~]

I know exactly that language is important for us nowaday and for the new generation too. That is why we hire more efficiant Teachers , narrative teachers from overseas to improve our children.

We are tying hard to improve.

Well, as I see it, the English problem is partly due to lack of qualified teachers and historical reasons, and partly due to attitude. I recall a post of mine here a few months ago describing the complete inability to converse in English in SCB branches and I do recall very well the reply I got from an affluent Thai on this board that was educated in the US - his proud reply was that he does not see a problem with the fact that not a single person in the branch can communicate in English.

I don't think this is an exception. Maybe another way for the hi-so elite to distinguish themselves from the masses?

Edited June 3, 2006 by ~G~

[fox]

Quote :

We are Thai, and we shall doing in Thai Way. Actually we dont need to be fluently in English, we have our own language. We just do it to please you. Why England dont speak Thai or Chinese or Vietnamese ?

My dear friend,

If you are still thinking in this way, I regret very much to say that your country

would be going backward not forward to the future.

Your country would be going back to the 18th century.

In Malaysia, the official language ( National Language ) is Malay.

And still, they have make English as the second language of this nation.

English is an International language.

To have knowledge in business, science, medicine, and technology, you must know English.

Just for your information.

Our laws are written in English and also in Malay. Our contracts can be in English or in Malay.

Our High Court cases could be conducted in English with special consent.

Also English is widely spoken over here. I speak English, Chinese and Malay.

I can also speak a little Thai.

In conclusion, you had better change your mind-set, otherwise you would be going back to the dark ages.

[Sing_Sling]

My quick two-cents here, vis-a-vis the Singapore issue. Why are obscure and blatantly false statements being made here about:

* COE Umm, this has to do with what?

* S'poreans avoiding NS by opening up companies in Thailand Too odd to comment on

* Rantings about Lee Kuan Yew Yes, and having the Military control Thailand for so many years is a model of democracy

* yaddah yaddah yaddah

Simply put one cannot compare Singapore with Thailand - the reasons for which should be quite plain for anyone with half a brain.

I have been working on an international level for close to 15 years now and Thailand is easily one of the most difficult, least professional and utterly frustrating countries to work with. This is true from Government to the Private sector.

Before moving to Singapore 5 years ago I lived back in Australia for 5 years after an absence of a few years spent working in Europe and the US - - - the red tape here is a dream, even compared to Australia. The government does all it can to promote foreign investment and does so professionally as aside from its location and highly educated workforce ti has nothing else to offer. Zip, zilch!

I have now ventured into setting up buisnesses in Thailand in the bio-fuels area . . . even with a Thai business partner the pain is excruciating, the processes lengthy and decisions illogical.

I do like Thailand, even have a place in Krabi/Aonang and a small condo in Bangkok, but I woud never consider living there and trusting the business to keep me afloat though it is profitable. Constant changes to ownership regulations simply makes that not feasable.

Singapore might be expensive and small but it is clean, safe, centrally located, affluent, prosperous, honest etc . . .

If I want a more peaceful and serene surrounding, space and a more laissez-faire environment I catch a plane to Krabi for S$50 and chill for a few days.

the best of both worlds - the first and the third.

Ask yourself this:

Where would you invest your money? Then apply that rationale to corporations.

Edited June 3, 2006 by Sing_Sling