Why Is Thailand So Backward?

[chuchok]

Thais never want to hear anything negative about their country no matter how trivial the thing might be.

Let's not get here into generalisations, please.

There are many Thais around who do not buy into this nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish, with whom you can have perfectly normal conversations about anything including criticising Thai politics, society and culture.

Obviously it is far easier to hold those conversations in Thai language, as this is somewhat proof that you, the farang, has spent more than superficial brain movements on this topic matter.

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

You only have to look at what percentage voted for TRT to see that many are driven by this 'nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish'. Many are not, much more are. It just depends in which circles you move around. In my opinion only poorly informed people have nationalistic tendencies.

That's crap.I have known many well informed people that are as nationalistic as hel_l.

[stiggy]

Is it Thailand thats backward ?or the majority of mid life crisis expats this country attracts.

Every day I hear people complaining about infastructire ,Taxes,haveing to get a work permit,difficulty in registering car etc etc.

I have several business interest in Asia tradeing in most countrys mentioned on this forum.

Vietnam ........... worse than pulling teeth trying to get things legal and avoiding the corruption.

China................. difficult to get permission but a fairly clear route to follow to get there.

Cambodia......................

Thailand................Yes there is a lot to follow particullary in the later stages of business, tax system can be fun,

However consider this you arrive as a tourist,decide you want to live and work here and the Thais allow it if you follow the rules,Yes we are always "aliens" but I never claim to be anything other than British.

Most past problems I have encountered are down to my own ignorrance and lack of understanding of Thai laws.

Take the time to learn ,My wife(of 10 years and English) and I have attended Thai language school,attended 2 Tax courses,and taken time to get to know Thais that are not frequenting Bars in tourist areas.

Guess what? this has led to us at times receiving outstanding service and has lead to long term educated trusted friends within the kingdom.

If our homelands are so perfect why are we here?If as a foreign national in Uk you set your base up in kings cross,southend sea front or other tourist areas,guess what you would think Uk was backwards.

Personally the wife and I love it here ,We are thankfull that we are able to work live and play here and use the country as a base for the rest of the region.

[Heng]

The ol' "why isn't takraw more like cricket?" or "why doesn't my rice taste like bread?" thread. If you can't adapt, whingy bitterness is almost inevitable.

[Cassandra]

ahem...I've been in HCMC for 3 months and I can say that VN will overtake Thai regarding all econ indicators very soon...not to say that there ain't corruption and etc, but people here know how to make a buck and are driven...and were also brutalised by the US embargo...they snub their noses again with their economic success after military victory

hard to reconcile that the beautiful VN lady that you look at is also a 'business monster'...ie., no time for leisure, just work then home with the family and associated responsibilities...in great contrast to what we have in Thailand...the party whorehouse of SE Asia...they got that stuff in Vung Tao but nobody pays too much attention

my experience has been in Thailand and Indonesia and I say VN is gonna gobble you up soon...forget Malaysia and S'pore...

I have been involved in business in Vietnam for 15 years.I have always heard comments like this, albeit expressed in a more literate and informed way, that Vietnam was about to overtake Thailand economically.It's not surprising that Vietnam creates such a good impression but it has never remotely looked like overtaking Thailand.The elephant in the front room is of course is that it has a ludicrous system of an incompetent, corrupt and intrusive government where the politbureau and army still exert enormous influence.Now if Vietnam followed the example of its China neighbour and effectively moved to a genuine free market system that would be a different kettle of fish.But even then I would still put my money on Thailand.

[jackr]

Cambodia......................

[Sing_Sling]

Now if Vietnam followed the example of its China neighbour and effectively moved to a genuine free market system

Sorry, Cassandra, China does not operate under a free-market system, especially not a genuine one. Have you done business in China? Tried to do so in the South? Met some nicey nicey PLA hand-out-seking gents? The list is endless. At least after you have paid everybody off and received your permit you can almost start your work . . .

[Cassandra]

Now if Vietnam followed the example of its China neighbour and effectively moved to a genuine free market system

Sorry, Cassandra, China does not operate under a free-market system, especially not a genuine one. Have you done business in China? Tried to do so in the South? Met some nicey nicey PLA hand-out-seking gents? The list is endless. At least after you have paid everybody off and received your permit you can almost start your work . . .

You're right of course and my comment should have been more qualified.But free enterprise is openly accepted in China albeit often distorted in the ways you mention.Nevertheless "to be rich is glorious" is a statement a Vietnamese politbureau leader would never make while the sentiment would be largely agreed in China.Returning to the original point, Thailand of course carries very little of this antiquated baggage.

[phibunmike]

From CIA World Fact Book -

Show your CIA facts to the many millions of rural Thai people and they will have a wee chuckle.

Thailand is still a nice place to live.I would much rather be here than Cambodia or Burma.I would much prefer Singapore though, and so would 'her indoors'.

Whatever about the state of development, and the efficiency of services available, there are other factors. I have lived in Singapore for a number of years, and now spend some time each month in Thailand, with a view to moving to LOS full time soon. Why ? Quality of life. Walking out of my house in the morning (I legally cannot own landed property in Singapore, and even if I could, I could not afford it) and breathing fresh air, looking at trees and rice, a cloudless sky.... then pop into town for some shopping, park outside the shop (instead of searching for the nearby car park), and parking free (no need to spend five minutes punching out holes in a little coupon to stick in the windscreen). In the shop people smile and say hello.

I can imagine trying to do business in LOS would be frustrating, but my business is overseas anyway, so for me it is just a place to live. And what a lovely one

[chuchok]

Now if Vietnam followed the example of its China neighbour and effectively moved to a genuine free market system

Sorry, Cassandra, China does not operate under a free-market system, especially not a genuine one. Have you done business in China? Tried to do so in the South? Met some nicey nicey PLA hand-out-seking gents? The list is endless. At least after you have paid everybody off and received your permit you can almost start your work . . .

You're right of course and my comment should have been more qualified.But free enterprise is openly accepted in China albeit often distorted in the ways you mention.Nevertheless "to be rich is glorious" is a statement a Vietnamese politbureau leader would never make while the sentiment would be largely agreed in China.Returning to the original point, Thailand of course carries very little of this antiquated baggage.

Now that is one of the better statements I have heard to describe the Chinese Comumunist way.

[ColPyat]

You only have to look at what percentage voted for TRT to see that many are driven by this 'nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish'. Many are not, much more are. It just depends in which circles you move around. In my opinion only poorly informed people have nationalistic tendencies.

Sorry, but you are wrong in this opinion.

The vast majority of Thais voted for TRT because the benefit from easy loan programs, the 30 Baht healthcare, hope for a land distribution, etc.

Nationalism plays a very small role in their choice for TRT.

On the other hand, if you have ever attended the PAD rallies, with its largely middle class supporters, you could see and hear the most nationalistic speaches i have seen here in a long time, far on the right of what Thaksin has ever uttered.

[ColPyat]

Now if Vietnam followed the example of its China neighbour and effectively moved to a genuine free market system that would be a different kettle of fish.But even then I would still put my money on Thailand.

I can't say anything about Vietnam as i have never been there.

But regionally, the only developing countries i would presently put my money on their future development are Malaysia and India.

[ROFL]

On your red paragraph was my irony. The whole post was also irony to the one who always asking..why why...

I know exactly that language is important for us nowaday and for the new generation too. That is why we hire more efficiant Teachers , narrative teachers from overseas to improve our children.

We are tying hard to improve.

Kathe

You are wasting your breath/time he is a yank, they don't do irony.

Yeah ...........its was so obvious that his comments were "irony".

Listen up, if you're going to make "ironic" comments you really need a better command of the language.

The only "irony" I could find was the comment "WE ARE TRYING HARD TO IMPROVE".

[Galong]

A likely reason why Thais don't speak English is that the teachers don't speak English. Any Thai who can speak proper English would be foolish to work in the education system here.

Teachers here (just like many other places) don't make a lot of money. Someone who speaks English would be much better off working in the tourism sector.

BTW, if you don't think that there are a lot of Laotians who speak English better than many Thais, you haven't been around Lao long enough. They are, in my opinion, on average, much better at English.

AND, Thailand has been colonized from the inside by the Chinese. The Chinese aren't interested in promoting Thailand in the world economy unless it affects their personal businesses... just look at the Chinese/Thai Prime Minister.

[ROFL]

A really good start would be to get some educational material on the television. Watching grown men giggling profusely at 'joker' or some typical wining soap with all the trimmings is comical in itself. How about a bit of geography, nature, and history of other cultures?

LOL, next time you're in a group of 20+ "average" THAIS (not university students) ask them "who has read a book, or what are you reading right now"....blank stares is all you'll get.

[sparkie]

the sad thing is Thai degrees are not worth the paper they are written on.

Now that kind of statement makes intellectual Thais more and more anti-Farang.

Just as in America, there are good universities and there are commercialized marketable ones which don't teach anything.

Before people like this can go voicing away, they need only stand back and look at their own education system. Its the same everywhere in the world. Now look at England, that country is home to a platoon of second-rate educational institutes who call themsleves universities just to have homeless people pay their fees through the government.

Thailand is home to some of Asia's most respected and prestigious universities. Most second-rate universities in the west are just a laguhing stock in comparison.

[Sing_Sling]

Needed some assistance on information in Udon Thani last week and was referred to an 'English Teacher' sitting having coffee, by the hotel staff.

I approached her and asked her if she could help me find a printers shop.

The response:

[ROFL]

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

HOLY CRAPOLA, thats the dumbest thing that's been said in this thread so far.

So what you're saying is that I cannot have an educated and intelligent viewpoint on Thailand unless I speak THAI?

[ROFL]

I understand that pretty girls bring a certain amount of visitors/expats.. but I don't have the available data to go so far as to say majority.

totster

Fair enough, we can run a real simple experiment to get the "data" we need.

The government decides to enforce the laws and get rid of the GO GO's, arrest the street walkers, arrest the farang that solicit them and lets see what happens to Thailand’s Tourist industry.

Would I leave if they did this? Nope, I actually think the sex-trade impedes my ability to find what I want here.

All I know is I’ve never been in a 7-11 in any other country and had one of the clerks point at the other clerk and say "she want to marry farang".

What this means about Thai society I’ve no idea.

[ROFL]

Most past problems I have encountered are down to my own ignorrance and lack of understanding of Thai laws.

Take the time to learn ,My wife(of 10 years and English) and I have attended Thai language school,attended 2 Tax courses,and taken time to get to know Thais that are not frequenting Bars in tourist areas.

Guess what? this has led to us at times receiving outstanding service and has lead to long term educated trusted friends within the kingdom.

Ohhhhhhhhh, now it all makes sense.....the problem with Thailand is that the farang dont speak THAI.

Let me help you understand THAI LAW, next time you have a problem pull out your wallet.

[Gary A]

Years ago in the US people got a good education. If you didn't pass the standardized high school tests you didn't graduate. All that has changed and NOT for the better. Now these functionally illiterate people go to a university. Some actually graduate and are STILL functionally illiterate. If you excel in nearly any kind of sport you can graduate from some of the universities.

the sad thing is Thai degrees are not worth the paper they are written on.

Now that kind of statement makes intellectual Thais more and more anti-Farang.

Just as in America, there are good universities and there are commercialized marketable ones which don't teach anything.

Before people like this can go voicing away, they need only stand back and look at their own education system. Its the same everywhere in the world. Now look at England, that country is home to a platoon of second-rate educational institutes who call themsleves universities just to have homeless people pay their fees through the government.

Thailand is home to some of Asia's most respected and prestigious universities. Most second-rate universities in the west are just a laguhing stock in comparison.

[ROFL]

If you can't adapt, whingy bitterness is almost inevitable.

I’m tired of reading over and over again that it’s our failure to adapt to Thai culture that is the cause for Thailand’s economic and social decline.

Last time I checked my desire not to shit in a stand up crapper had a NO detrimental effect on Thailand’s foreign investment.

The real deal, Ive adapted, I eat Thai, I shop in Thai stores, ....everything I do in Thailand I do with Thais.

I say this because I know my responses to this thread about THAILAND’s social and economic decline will be interpreted as my failure to assimilate or enjoy Thailand. This couldn’t be further from the truth, I love Thailand but that doesn’t mean I have blinders on to what the future has in store for Thailand if there are not some serious changes in Thai policies and Thai work ethic.

Edited June 4, 2006 by ROFL

[Jersey_UK]

Some reading on this thread!!

IMO the key for Thailand's future is EDUCATION. By that I mean more than collecting worthless bits of paper - i If it "requires" a Degree to do service jobs like waitress on an aeroplane or muppet clerical jobs it tells me all that I need to know about the worth of Degrees in Thailand AND therefore the worth of Education at sub Degree level.

But the paradox is that the more educated that the masses become the less "Happy smiley Thai" it will be, due in no small part to folk becoming aware that they have in the past been effectively bending over and taking it up the sh#tter from the THEIR own lords and masters.

Still. Mai Pen rai!!!

Thailand is a great place for a holiday (whether that be for temples or tarts) or to live in whilst earning ELSEWHERE, but IMO not worth the aggro vs the rewards (measured in real money) for most Farang (albeit not all) in making a living in / from Thailand.

Still, Mai Pen rai!!! = not MY problem.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Jersey_UK

[ColPyat]

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

HOLY CRAPOLA, thats the dumbest thing that's been said in this thread so far.

So what you're saying is that I cannot have an educated and intelligent viewpoint on Thailand unless I speak THAI?

Ad hominem, my friend...

Economics you can criticise very well without speaking Thai, but anything regarding socio-cultural factors you'll be very soon out of your depth as you are depending on usually unreliable second hand information and translators with their own agendas.

Furthermore - you can only directly converse with a particular social class, but will never get close to the experience of the masses that do not have the advantage to speak English.

Yes, part of an educated viewpoint on Thailand is the ability to speak Thai if you want to get beyond superficialities.

Thailand is not Malaysia, Singapore or India where English is second official language.

So yes, you can have any viewpoint you want on Thailand, but i am afraid that as long as you don't speak Thai you will speak to the wall, and can save your breath as it won't make one bit of difference, even in personal relations.

[ROFL]

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

HOLY CRAPOLA, thats the dumbest thing that's been said in this thread so far.

So what you're saying is that I cannot have an educated and intelligent viewpoint on Thailand unless I speak THAI?

Ad hominem, my friend...

Economics you can criticise very well without speaking Thai, but anything regarding socio-cultural factors you'll be very soon out of your depth as you are depending on usually unreliable second hand information and translators with their own agendas.

Furthermore - you can only directly converse with a particular social class, but will never get close to the experience of the masses that do not have the advantage to speak English.

Yes, part of an educated viewpoint on Thailand is the ability to speak Thai if you want to get beyond superficialities.

Thailand is not Malaysia, Singapore or India where English is second official language.

So yes, you can have any viewpoint you want on Thailand, but i am afraid that as long as you don't speak Thai you will speak to the wall, and can save your breath as it won't make one bit of difference, even in personal relations.

Sorry but you still make no sense what so ever.

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

Your quote above says that for me to be able to discuss or criticize economic and social issues I need to speak Thai.

Now if you're talking about my having a conversation with a Thai speaker about Thai socio economic issues you have a point but last time I checked every response to this thread has been written in English.

But considering you use the term "viewpoint" many times I can only conclude that you are indeed saying that for anyone to have a valid POV on Thai society and economy one must speak Thai.

Like I said before, that’s was and still is the dumbest thing that’s been said in this thread so far.

By that logic no English speaking person can have an educated POV about any country unless they speak that countries language.

Laughable comes to mind.

Edited June 4, 2006 by ROFL

[LaoPo]

The ol' "why isn't takraw more like cricket?" or "why doesn't my rice taste like bread?" thread. If you can't adapt, whingy bitterness is almost inevitable.

Thailand has to adapt to the World, Heng.....it's not about Farang adapting or not to Thailand.

If Thailand doesn't adapt it becomes an island in the World of economic affairs and business and it will loose on all fronts.

LaoPo

[frodo]

the sad thing is Thai degrees are not worth the paper they are written on.

Thailand is home to some of Asia's most respected and prestigious universities. Most second-rate universities in the west are just a laguhing stock in comparison.

Where did you get your information from? Thailand is nowhere close to any top university anywhere, except Thailand itself.

Top 100 Asian Universities 2006

Top 3000 Universities

Not even close

[Sir Burr]

Globalization is a fact, an unstoppable force.

Countries are now competing against each other for markets and foreign investment.

The old Japanese adage "Business is war", is more true now than ever before. It used to be company against company, now it is country against country.

The key to winning is competiveness and innovation. Thailand is being outgunned on both accounts by other countries in the region.

If Thailand doesn't adapt to globalization, they will be left behind and reduced to irrelevancy in the global market-place.

The first step is education, but educating the masses conflicts with with the people who run the country, the politicians and business leaders with vested interests.

Even though I love this country, I'm very pessimistic about it's future.

[oblivious]

The real point as far as I'm concerned is that the Thai people are not fulfilling their own collective potential and that is very sad. To dismiss people who are trying to help recognise the reasons for this failure as just "not understanding" is not at all helpful and just fuels the problem.

My experiences of Thailand are admittedly limited but any fool can see that the people in Thailand have the ability to achieve so much more and become a much wealthier nation. It's not just "face saving" that hurts them, it's the "up to you" crap. Teach everyone in Thailand to say "up to me" and the economy could be transformed in no time! Add in some much needed educational reform and then they would really be cooking on gas.

[ColPyat]

Your quote above says that for me to be able to discuss or criticize economic and social issues I need to speak Thai.

Now if you're talking about my having a conversation with a Thai speaker about Thai socio economic issues you have a point but last time I checked every response to this thread has been written in English.

But considering you use the term "viewpoint" many times I can only conclude that you are indeed saying that for anyone to have a valid POV on Thai society and economy one must speak Thai.

Like I said before, that’s was and still is the dumbest thing that’s been said in this thread so far.

By that logic no English speaking person can have an educated POV about any country unless they speak that countries language.

Laughable comes to mind.

You seem to enjoy hearing yourself talking, even if you have nothing to say.

To make it simple:

In order to even beginning to understand Thai specific social and cultural issues you have to understand Thai. You can talk all day long about those issues if you don't speak Thai, but you will still talk superficial issues full of invalid generalisations. As you have done here in this thread.

As valid and interesting as your purely economical analyses of Thailand was, as amateurish was every utterance of yours concerning Thai culture, workethic and psychology.

Yes, by that logic every native English speaker who refuses to learn different languages (or person from wherever who refuses to entertain the though that learning languages is important) has very little grasp of foreign countries who do not use English as one of their official languages.

Are you a *Business Administrator*, by chance...those folks rather often think that they have the wisdom of the world because they can read statistics and economical spreadsheets ...

[LaoPo]

To make it simple:

In order to even beginning to understand Thai specific social and cultural issues you have to understand Thai.

The topic is about "Why Is Thailand So Backward?" and about it's economical place on the Region-map not about the ability to speak/understand Thai or it's social and cultural issues.

I would think it's a Thai problem (being 'backward') and not of the foreigner, doing business.

99% of the businessmen/companies doing business in the Far East, whatever the country, DO NOT speak the local language. (Thai, Chinese/Mandarin/Cantonese, Korean, Bahasa Indonesia, Malay etc.)

The business language is English.

Of course it would benefit enormously if one would speak a local language but that has nothing to do with the 'backward'-position of Thailand.

LaoPo