Why Is Thailand So Backward?

[thankuverybig]

oh yes! & another thing ive never heard a thai person fart really loudly in public.

theres got to something wrong there!

[Tony Montana]

Have been following thread with interest.

Thailand is by no means a basket case,it has a lot going for it including,being able to feed its self,tourism etc.

I think the English language argument is a little weak.i've worked in Taiwan & the English language has'nt been inbraced ie.not many people speak English.I'm led to believe that South Korea,Japan which are the power houses of the Asian economy also have an issue with the English Language.Most of the multinational companies out of the mentioned countries employ westerners to represent them on the world stage.I've seen a number of ceo's,directors chairmen etc from large Japanese banks etc with little or no knowledge of the English language.

IMHO the biggest problem with Thailand is most people's attitude,many things in the country are unjust,but most people do nothing to change it.Politcian's children can murder but nobody does nothing.Large construction projects subside but nobody is held accountable.You have to have education but nobody demands it.If the Thai people continue to turn a blind eye,how will they get a fair education & healthcare system that is for everyone not just the Elite.If the Thai people continue to turn a blind eye,how will they get infastructure enabling them to compete in the international stage.

The list goes on but Thailand as a nation needs to change its attitude & work harder,again IMHO.

[OZONE]

oh yes! & another thing ive never heard a thai person fart really loudly in public.

theres got to something wrong there!

again, wrong thread.

Reading / speaking Thai may be (or not) be a pre-requisite to criticise "the why Thailand is so backward" , but reading & understanding English is definitely "IS" a requirement in this forum

[mittheimp]

I'm sure the sad old expats living in these other supposedly forward thinking and looking Asian countries spend their free time sitting on bar stools (or typing!!) bemoaning how their adopted country is not like it was and how backward it is too!

[ROFL]

Thailand will go through enormous flux in the next few decades, but I disagree with the underlying premiss of this thread that all(!!) it has to do is to copy Western societies, and so no longer be 'backward'.

One poster poked a bit of fun at "hippies with Internet"---and it would be valid for a 'knit your own yoghourt' brigade.

I dont think anyone said they need to copy western societies, but they do have to realize that the world has become flat, not in the Thai there is nothing out there besides Thailand way but more the Thomas Friedman's "the world is flat".

And that was me that poked a bit of fun at the hipsters, but I love hipsters, many of my best buds "were" hips, and yes Ive been to more than my fare share of shows.

Most of the "living the lifers" are "a la carte", that was my point. You know the type? Hate the big corporations, people driving nice cars but the instant you offer them a ride in one they yell "shot gun".

[sbk]

I think the problem with this topic is far too many people are debating if farang living in this country have a right to an opinion when the topic at hand is not that. If you don't think they have a right to an opinion, well, that is your opinion. Please keep it to yourself and lets not turn this into a debate about it.

The topic is WHY we, on Thai Visa forum, think Thailand may be falling behind its neighbors (or not), not whether or not we are entitled to an opinion.

[chonabot]

After all, several African nations have populations that speak much better English than Thais, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa to name just 3.

.

Probably because English has been the first language of RSA for about 350 years.

/deleted.

Incorrect by a mile, but this is a Thai discussion.

How so ? when I lived there for 8 years , the main languages were English and Afrikaans.

The English speaking schools , which I attended, outnumbered the Afrikaans schools by 2 to 1.

Hardly comparable with Thailand or even other African countries.

Praat jou Afrikaans?

Thought not......

Edited June 5, 2006 by chonabot

[number6]

I'm sick of seeing people with screwed up lives blaming Thailand, or Thai women for all their troubles.

I agree 100% and just wonder why they stay - Thailand has lots right and lots wrong like any

country and sorry i also moan a bit about things here but all in all its a wonderful country and I have no major complaints after visting for 15 years and living here for 4+ years. I certainly would not want to go back to UK or USA. Even poor here in semi slums are better off than poor in those

countries in my humble opinion

[ColPyat]

The recent hiatus in Government-governed relationships is a graphic reflection of this socio-cultural dis-joint between past and present.

Thank you for the attempt to save this thread from the intellectual abyss it steadily appears to sink into. Unfortunately this thread now seems to resemble now the the old comparism between opinions and a_rseholes, everybody having one... and some of those are outright illmannered and nasty.

Edited June 5, 2006 by ColPyat

[Prakanong2005]

After reading thr mods post I have deleted this - it was not offensive but let cooler heads reign

I will say though re-invention is amazing in Thailand

Edited June 5, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[Prakanong2005]

"The topic is WHY we, on Thai Visa forum, think Thailand may be falling behind its neighbors (or not), not whether or not we are entitled to an opinion."

Exactly - and why do we have such strong opinions?

Because we care about Thailand and I want my Thai family to do well

[Sing_Sling]

. . . and were focussing on economic criteria, which was what the topic was all about in the first place.

Excuse me, the topic is "why is Thailand so backward?"

And if you just limit the discussion on economic criteria, you will not get any closer to an answer. Social and cultural factors are creating the economical difficulties Thailand is facing. Economical and socio-cultural issus are closely interlinked in this question.

Point taken, I didn't mean to imply economic criteria to the exclusion of all else. Clearly the social background is a deniminator as to the workings of the economy, government etc . . .

[OlRedEyes]

After all, several African nations have populations that speak much better English than Thais, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa to name just 3.

.

Probably because English has been the first language of RSA for about 350 years.

/deleted.

Incorrect by a mile, but this is a Thai discussion.

How so ? when I lived there for 8 years , the main languages were English and Afrikaans.

The English speaking schools , which I attended, outnumbered the Afrikaans schools by 2 to 1.

Hardly comparable with Thailand or even other African countries.

Praat jou Afrikaans?

Thought not......

You were probably confined to the cities.

Up to a couple of decades ago you would have been hard pressed to find anybody speaking English outside of the cities, excluding Natal. Afrikaans, Zulu, Xhosa etc. yes. Afrikaans was the language most comunicated in everywhere, including the cities, and the official language. Similar to Thailand, if you could only speak English, you would not have been able to communicate with the majority of the population.

Today English is the second language used by most. It's never in SA's history been the first language.

Anyway, answered your PM. This is off topic, to a certain extent. Point is, I understand Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans, English culture, without speaking those languages.

[jdinasia]

hmmmm

Seems the OP has never been to Malaysia outside of the big cities ...

Or Cambodia at all .....

Or Vietnam

Or Laos at all .... and well Singapore IS just a big city.

The people (excluding Sg) are poor ... un or undereducated ... have less than the folks in Thailand ... etc. Having spent some time travelling in the countries the OP has mentioned ... IMHO he's just wrong ... They are far worse off than Thailand.

As for speaking English ... this is Thailand ... the average Thai doesn't NEED to speak English. People dealing with international Biz etc might ... but not even most Government officials need it.

[wasabi]

I do think it would be very helpful to be proficient in the native language of ANY country one wanted to reside in. It's not because a secret mystery will be revealed but it is useful for daily living.

One thing I've experienced is Thai people telling me I don't understand Thai culture if I don't agree with them, I think the argument you can't understand Thai culture if you don't know Thai falls in this category and I disagree. Knowing Thai will enhance the experience not suddenly illuminate it.

[chonabot]

After all, several African nations have populations that speak much better English than Thais, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa to name just 3.

.

Probably because English has been the first language of RSA for about 350 years.

/deleted.

Incorrect by a mile, but this is a Thai discussion.

How so ? when I lived there for 8 years , the main languages were English and Afrikaans.

The English speaking schools , which I attended, outnumbered the Afrikaans schools by 2 to 1.

Hardly comparable with Thailand or even other African countries.

Praat jou Afrikaans?

Thought not......

You were probably confined to the cities.

Up to a couple of decades ago you would have been hard pressed to find anybody speaking English outside of the cities, excluding Natal. Afrikaans, Zulu, Xhosa etc. yes. Afrikaans was the language most comunicated in everywhere, including the cities, and the official language. Similar to Thailand, if you could only speak English, you would not have been able to communicate with the majority of the population.

Today English is the second language used by most. It's never in SA's history been the first language.

Anyway, answered your PM. This is off topic, to a certain extent. Point is, I understand Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans, English culture, without speaking those languages.

Ok kudos to you , but my original point was in response to the poster who was comparing Thailand unfavourably to SA due to the lack of English spoken in Los.

SA was colonised in part by English settlers, along with Jan van Riebeck etc.

The colonising effect cannot be underestimated when it comes to the useage of primary languages and the development of pidgin English ( creoles )

This is the main reason that English is underused in Thailand. I believe that English is more widespread in SA than it was 30 years ago, because of the abolishment of Apartheid and integration with exterior nations.

English is the first language of business and tourism , the more these factors increase within Thailand, the more widespread English will become , by way of necessity.

Former colonies have their own version of English - Standard Indian English , Standard Malaysian English etc , Thailand will probably never be in the same league as these conutries in terms of exterior comms, but it will undoubtably improve as it strives to become a 1st world power.

Edited June 6, 2006 by chonabot

[thankuverybig]

i dont speak enough thai,even after spending a fair length of time in the country.

i know i would feel a bit of a hypercite if i were to start critising thailand for its people not speaking enough english.

how many of you who are critising thailand for being backward,speak thai?

you must have spent awile here to form a negative opinion.

i know some thais are a lttle peeved when a falung (most) has lived in thailand for a length of time & not learnt thai.

i think alot of people from the west are egocentric.we want a country,overseas where we are living to have the same standards & values as back home,& we sort of resent a country when it gos its own way.i think thais want to hold onto there identity,& fear the west moving in & taking over.

thailand has to be the easiest country in asia to be in,as far as cheap affordable luxury is concerned.

i think most of us like thailand & even have escaped to thailand because generally it is more easy going,& laid back,& less controlling,yet at the same time we want it to be like the west.

ps how many male farung,percentage wise, do you think are here mainly for the "hot chicks"!

[ROFL]

i think alot of people from the west are egocentric.we want a country,overseas where we are living to have the same standards & values as back home,& we sort of resent a country when it gos its own way.i think thais want to hold onto there identity,& fear the west moving in & taking over.

Hey if thailand wants to go its own way thats up to Thailand,

were simply pointing out that "their" way is often backwards.

I dont think the "goverment" is as concerned with holding on to their "identity" as they are with protecting their "assets"$$$$ and class dominance.

The "west" doesnt move in and "take over", they offer things and the youths and upwardly mobile peeps of Thailand "embrace" them.

Has the west taken over Japan?

[anuaaron]

No, he does realize exactly what Thailand has to offer, even if its not a particularly original observation to say it.

This guy merely repeats what uncounted other people say all the time and he's instantly denounced here as a social mitfit. Good Lord. The board is at least being consistent in its blind, unstinting boosterism about Thailand, isn't it?

Wow...I cant believe someone thinks this board boosts Thailand I always thought it was negative!

As for what Thailand has to offer, it is obviously more than sex. The point is if you can only get sex by flying to Thailand you are a social misfit. If you dont but come just for sex then you are just taking advantage of poverty...not morally upstanding either. I do not care if someone comes to here and sits in bars for two weeks and goes home, but dont say that all Thailand has.

As for the original topic. Please go and read some books. You are totally misguided to the economic situation of the region. As for using the English language as a way to guage development...boy how ethnocentric can you get. Why the hel_l should the average Thai learn English, it is an expensive undertaking and it is not guaranteed to change their lives!!!

Edited June 6, 2006 by anuaaron

[Siripon]

'All of these can be explained to me', in other words you can't understand it yourself.

NO, all I need is a translation.

Again , it all began with Col silly comment ,

QUOTE(ColPyat @ 2006-06-04 01:46:50)

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level

You're Thai? If so guess I shouldnt havet expected you to understand the first time, but ###### Ive said it over and over again and you still dont get it.

###### even with the simple wrote education you recieved I figured you would be able to get it by the third time.

Your culture cant hide behind the Thai language, Im sorry to say its out there in the wide open yonder for everyone to see. No mystery.

I laughing my ass off that a Thai? person or persons is arrogant enough to think that they are such a special species that cannot be comprehended by the rest of the world.

You may not be Thai, which is even scarier. But if you are..

...go ahead, grab that jar of face cream and look yourself in the mirror and say "look at me Im Sandra Dee" over and over again till ya believe it. Thais are good at repeating it seems.

โอโฮ คนนี้เขียนภาษาของเขาเองยังไม่ถูกต้องเลยเเต่กลับดูถูกการศึกษาของประเทศไทย น่าสมเพช

Go and look for your translator to see what I've written above, how you can criticise Thai education when you can't even write in your own language, what is wrote education? do you mean rote? and recieve?

Nobody is talking how hiding behind a language,and as for arrogance,well,you seem to have cornered that market; I merely pointed out several areas of Thai culture and society which are inaccessible to those who can't speak or read Thai.

You can hardly hire an interpreter 24 hours a day, and anyway many jokes, literature, ie Sunthon Phu, don't lend themselves to translation.

To understand a culture fully,you have to experience it directly,live with the people, understand their daily lives; relying on translators you are a blind man, relying on helping hands without seeing anything yourself.

[anuaaron]

"

I laughing my ass off that a Thai? person or persons is arrogant enough to think that they are such a special species that cannot be comprehended by the rest of the world."

You wouldnt be American then as they have full control of the arrogance market. And Thai culture is a developed culture not a borrowed such as Americas and Australias (where I am from). There are flaws in all cultures but it is not realistic to say you can understand a culture without really understanding the intricies that are in those cultures. Your full post was very hostile and almose racist. Not needed at all.

Edited June 6, 2006 by anuaaron

[anuaaron]

Thailand is was ranked 36th in the world for Global Competitiveness Rankings

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Global_Competit...ankings_pdf.pdf

24th for Current Account Balances

http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/cu...nce_2005_0.html

Way down in 107th for aid received

39th in the world for budget expenditure and 40th in the world for budget revenues.

And finally 20th in the world for GDP.

These are not the figures of a backward country. If you are a capitalist these figures mean everything to you. If you are more socially minded then perhaps there are more things to consider. But in a pure economic sense Thailand is not backward or a basket case by any stretch of the imagination.

Some social figures for interest:

117th in the world for infant mortality rates. (20.4 deaths/1000)

111th for life expectancy (71 years)

21st in the worlds populations (65,444,000)

47th in the WHO health ranking system (disputed by many)

41st in Literacy (92.6% of the pop)

42nd Military expenditure ($1,775,000)

43rd in % of miltary expenditure of GDP (1.8%)

[ROFL]

โอโฮ คนนี้เขียนภาษาของเขาเองยังไม่ถูกต้องเลยเเต่กลับดูถูกการศึกษาของประเทศไทย น่าสมเพช

Go and look for your translator to see what I've written above, how you can criticise Thai education when you can't even write in your own language, what is wrote education? do you mean rote? and recieve?

Nobody is talking how hiding behind a language,and as for arrogance,well,you seem to have cornered that market; I merely pointed out several areas of Thai culture and society which are inaccessible to those who can't speak or read Thai.

You can hardly hire an interpreter 24 hours a day, and anyway many jokes, literature, ie Sunthon Phu, don't lend themselves to translation.

To understand a culture fully,you have to experience it directly,live with the people, understand their daily lives; relying on translators you are a blind man, relying on helping hands without seeing anything yourself.

You're confusing understanding a countries culture with spending years writing a doctoral thesis.

I can understand their daily lives just fine, I can experience it directly, and I can make educated and truthful observations about it without speaking Thai.

Get over yourself.

[ROFL]

As for what Thailand has to offer, it is obviously more than sex. The point is if you can only get sex by flying to Thailand you are a social misfit. If you dont but come just for sex then you are just taking advantage of poverty...not morally upstanding either. I do not care if someone comes to here and sits in bars for two weeks and goes home, but dont say that all Thailand has.

Few words for ya,

Ratchada

Geisha

Mia Noi

More Thai men visit massage palors than farang.

Nobody has said that the sex trade is all Thailand has but I have said that farang do come here to embrace that area of Thai culture and that Thailand would suffer huge if they actually enforced their laws.

Have you ever watched a bus load of Chinese going into Pattay? Do they look like they are off to visit the temples?

The difference is that farang are less discreet, more open about it, more honest,,,,less ashamed?

Have you ever been to Japan? Have you ever had a mid-level business meeting in Japan?

So there you have it, as you said Thai men are immoral and take advantage of poverty within their own country.

At least the farang that go to soapy pay more, if anything its the Thai men who are "really" taking advantage of poverty. If they were so concerned they would pay what farang pay.

Edited June 6, 2006 by ROFL

[thankuverybig]

i kind of consider japan as "the west",in so far as they have the money & so the power to control things.

im not sure the thai goverment has any influence how the average thai does buisness.

i think its a psycholigical fact that everybody is inclined to selfish behaviour.if things are going well for you in thailand,you probably love thailand.

lets say for instance you were exporting from thailand or indonesia.im not sure you would worry so much about how backward a country is as long as you can get your goods out of the country as cheaply as possible.

all i know is that im happy that i can live here for very little,& i can put off going back to england where i would probably be tied to a 15 year bank loan for a house & working my ass off for 50 hrs a week in a country that is ridiculously expensive.

[ROFL]

Thailand is was ranked 36th in the world for Global Competitiveness Rankings

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Global_Competit...ankings_pdf.pdf

24th for Current Account Balances

http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/cu...nce_2005_0.html

Way down in 107th for aid received

39th in the world for budget expenditure and 40th in the world for budget revenues.

And finally 20th in the world for GDP.

These are not the figures of a backward country. If you are a capitalist these figures mean everything to you. If you are more socially minded then perhaps there are more things to consider. But in a pure economic sense Thailand is not backward or a basket case by any stretch of the imagination.

Some social figures for interest:

117th in the world for infant mortality rates. (20.4 deaths/1000)

111th for life expectancy (71 years)

21st in the worlds populations (65,444,000)

47th in the WHO health ranking system (disputed by many)

41st in Literacy (92.6% of the pop)

42nd Military expenditure ($1,775,000)

43rd in % of miltary expenditure of GDP (1.8%)

LOl, do even have any clue what many of these "stats" mean?

146 United Kingdom -$33,460,000,000

147 Australia -$38,300,000,000

148 United States -$646,500,000,000

Yup, Thailand is way ahead of the UK, USA, and Australia ....economically.

LOL, Id like to expand on the (disputed by many) bit, Id say most numbers coming from Thailand are (disputed by many).

I cant believe that you would trust Thai goverment statistics. (which is where the cia world reports get these numbers, at least the ones they post on the internets)

Thailand, the paris of asia, Thailand the literary leader of Asia, Thailand the ...theres a new "one" every week.

Tell you what, go ask a group of 50 Thais what they are reading right now.

But since you like to cut paste I'll do some for ya, and its on topic,

COMPETITIVENESS

USA 1

Singapore 2

Hong Kong 6

Taiwan 18

Japan 26

Korea 28

Malaysia 29

China 33

Thailand 38

Philippines 40

Considering this thread is about competing in the global market I'll refer you to

title of the thread Her Neighbours continue to leave her behind

Edited June 6, 2006 by ROFL

[ROFL]

all i know is that im happy that i can live here for very little,& i can put off going back to england where i would probably be tied to a 15 year bank loan for a house & working my ass off for 50 hrs a week in a country that is ridiculously expensive.

Mum and Dad must be very proud.

You're right about one thing, this is the right place for ya!

To each his own I guess, Id be interested to see if you feel the same way when you turn 40.

[Gary A]

I am amazed at the number of people who continuously and consistently berate this country. I was never comfortable in the "Love it or leave it" group but I am finding more common ground with them. I am very grateful that I was born and raised in the USA. I managed to save enough money to be able to retire a bit early while I am still able to enjoy life. I do NOT feel that I am taking advantage of anyone's poverty and I actually feel that I am good for the country by spending my retirement money here rather than live like a pauper in the USA. The only place I EVER want to see ice again is in my glass. I have a lovely young Thai wife and life is good. Thai politics is none of my business. I want to see the country do well but not so well that it turns into the rat race that I left behind. I live among very poor people and they are happier than the majority of western people that I have seen. How can it be wrong to be happy go lucky and happy with their way of life? Bangkok by comparison is materialistic and scams abound. Do you want to rest of the country to follow the wealthy Thai Bangkok people? When the Thai people get to be like western people I will seek somewhere else to hang my hat.

[ROFL]

I am amazed at the number of people who continuously and consistently berate this country. I was never comfortable in the "Love it or leave it" group but I am finding more common ground with them. I am very grateful that I was born and raised in the USA. I managed to save enough money to be able to retire a bit early while I am still able to enjoy life. I do NOT feel that I am taking advantage of anyone's poverty and I actually feel that I am good for the country by spending my retirement money here rather than live like a pauper in the USA. The only place I EVER want to see ice again is in my glass. I have a lovely young Thai wife and life is good. Thai politics is none of my business. I want to see the country do well but not so well that it turns into the rat race that I left behind. I live among very poor people and they are happier than the majority of western people that I have seen. How can it be wrong to be happy go lucky and happy with their way of life? Bangkok by comparison is materialistic and scams abound. Do you want to rest of the country to follow the wealthy Thai Bangkok people? When the Thai people get to be like western people I will seek somewhere else to hang my hat.

You are "taking advantage" of poverty.

"advantage" isnt necassarily a negative word.

What you want may be different than what many Thais want, you're comment that you dont want to see the Thailand do "so well" is what you want.

Your post is all about YOU.

You're by your own admission not wealthy, so for you Thais becoming competitive and ambitious is a bad thing.

You've found a little oasis to drop out in and that suits you, the fact that you hope for the people to remain impoverished is a little selfish.

[Thaising]

I am amazed at the number of people who continuously and consistently berate this country. I was never comfortable in the "Love it or leave it" group but I am finding more common ground with them. I am very grateful that I was born and raised in the USA. I managed to save enough money to be able to retire a bit early while I am still able to enjoy life. I do NOT feel that I am taking advantage of anyone's poverty and I actually feel that I am good for the country by spending my retirement money here rather than live like a pauper in the USA. The only place I EVER want to see ice again is in my glass. I have a lovely young Thai wife and life is good. Thai politics is none of my business. I want to see the country do well but not so well that it turns into the rat race that I left behind. I live among very poor people and they are happier than the majority of western people that I have seen. How can it be wrong to be happy go lucky and happy with their way of life? Bangkok by comparison is materialistic and scams abound. Do you want to rest of the country to follow the wealthy Thai Bangkok people? When the Thai people get to be like western people I will seek somewhere else to hang my hat.

Leave all the dog eat dog world behind and start enjoys your lifes.