Reform needed to stop nepotism, political meddling in bureaucracy, Thai forum hears

[Scamper]

While the PDRC hold seminars of substance, the UDD are engaged in altogether different activities. That says a lot right there. One wants to strengthen the teeth of the independent agencies, while the other wants to do away with them entirely. That also says a lot.

[ginjag]

Yep, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree there has to be some form of change, the impasse is the problem, there's no winners here just now.

Last thing that's needed is for violent clashes akin to 2010, there's been enough blood shed, and both sides need to see that it's the common people, and by that I mean the non elected, ordinary Thai folks that are suffering.

The current Government is got more twist in it than a Viennese Whirl, and has run its course, no problems with that, it's the method of removing them that I don't really care for, in most cases they'd be voted out, and it's all about the majority, all the talk of banning the PTP seems to be a way to silence that majority, that's hardly democratic.

Heads need to be knocked together soon!!

To add top heads have to roll first as well for what they did, and to put an end to this laughing stock of corrupt politicians. I agree with your post.

To nullify the cancer you have to find the primary and we know where that is.

[ginjag]

Yep, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree there has to be some form of change, the impasse is the problem, there's no winners here just now.

Last thing that's needed is for violent clashes akin to 2010, there's been enough blood shed, and both sides need to see that it's the common people, and by that I mean the non elected, ordinary Thai folks that are suffering.

The current Government is got more twist in it than a Viennese Whirl, and has run its course, no problems with that, it's the method of removing them that I don't really care for, in most cases they'd be voted out, and it's all about the majority, all the talk of banning the PTP seems to be a way to silence that majority, that's hardly democratic.

Heads need to be knocked together soon!!

Thailand needs a massive clearance through the courts that money has no influence. Number one priority. Only then can it start with reforms, concentrating on ANYONE in positions of power from top to bottom dealt with severely.

The Bib have to be the one of the first departments to be cleansed.

Edited March 22, 2014 by ginjag

[tomross46]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This is true, but I want every one to know that Chalerms son was qualified for the job of the caped crusader, " Toilet Man ". The apple does not fall far from the tree.

[bigbamboo]

Any claim The Nation had to being a serious disseminator of news has long since been subsumed into its role as the mouthpiece of the PDRC - or whatever set of initials the Ruling Elite are currently hiding behind in their attempt to overthrown democracy.

The need to reform the bureaucracy by ridding it of 'nepotism and political interference' was just as relevant when Mr. Suthep was deputy PM, less than three years ago. Why did he and his cronies not make those reforms then? Perchance because the beneficiaries of the nepotism were from the backers of Suthep?

Of course I'm sure Suthep's cronies are guilty of nepotism although I can't think of any off hand but I'm sure the supporters of the ruling party's chief and his caretaker family members the Prime Minister, the Defence Minister, the Foreign Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Deputy PT party leader, chief advisor to CAPO... deep breath...... could enlighten us.

[HonestQuietBob]

The red boiler room typing pool are certainly out in force on this one and as usual nothing constructive to say or add, just the usual negative comments.

Funny how these types of accusations only come from one side.

Guess it's the type of thing one must resort to when you're on the losing side of an argument and you have not a single fact to to support your point of view.

I pity you all.

[fab4]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

You mean keeping a corrupt government in power and then reforms, NOT ON YOUR NELLY, ---AFTER the courts have come up with their verdicts.

So your employee gets his fingers in the till you keep in on, No way, get rid and ask how to stop the fingers getting in the till. (reform)

What is it with people on here? I spell out exactly what I mean and you tell me that is not correct and what I meant to say was something else?

If my position was analogous to your interpretation of my post I would have said so - IT ISN'T AND I DIDN'T.

Edited March 22, 2014 by fab4

[donmuang37]

I can understand the Yellows and Reds spouting ridiculous propaganda - it's the Thai way.

But most farangs come from places that, while not perfect, are far more logical and more Democratic. So it should be obvious to us that corruption is a by-product of the patronage system which has prevailed in Thailand for hundreds of years. Recent polls indicated that about 63% of Thais believe corruption is OK if it benefits them personally.

So when Suthep says that he wants reforms before elections, what he really means is that he wants to change the rules so the Democrats will win and the Preu Thai can't win.

When Preu Thai wanted to change the rules to create a fully elected senate, they knew that they could win a majority under the proposed new rules.

It seems to me that when a person votes in Thailand, they are simply voting for who they want to get the "tea money". This situation is just a power struggle between the old elites/old money and the new elites/new money. Heads, the people lose. Tails, the people lose.

Until laws are upheld without double standards, there isn't much hope for Thailand. For instance, when rich kids kill people with their car while driving recklessly, they may get their hand slapped at most Often no punishment at all. But if a poor kid does the same thing, the court throws the book at them. There is no justice here. Let's stop expecting any.

[ramrod711]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

When the elected government ignores the courts, and says that maybe some of the things they have done are against the laws, but laws can be changed, they are a rogue government. It is important, when there is a proven disregard for legalities, to set the rules before turning them loose on the public. No sense in re-electing them, then have them say, we were elected we can do what we want, which they have already shown us is their m o.

[ramrod711]

The red boiler room typing pool are certainly out in force on this one and as usual nothing constructive to say or add, just the usual negative comments.

Funny how these types of accusations only come from one side.

Guess it's the type of thing one must resort to when you're on the losing side of an argument and you have not a single fact to to support your point of view.

I pity you all.

Don't waste your pity, you are neither honest or quiet, and if your opinions are what you state them to be, I pity you.

[ginjag]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

You mean keeping a corrupt government in power and then reforms, NOT ON YOUR NELLY, ---AFTER the courts have come up with their verdicts.

So your employee gets his fingers in the till you keep in on, No way, get rid and ask how to stop the fingers getting in the till. (reform)

What is it with people on here? I spell out exactly what I mean and you tell me that is not correct and what I meant to say was something else?

If my position was analogous to your interpretation of my post I would have said so - IT ISN'T AND I DIDN'T.

Read #39, forget what you posted, the USUAL skirting------This post is what I have been trying to put over for ages----again try to understand,

I look at the wrongs from the protesters point of view/stance But I am quite aware of the root problem, you seemingly are not.

[monkeycountry]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Now don't you be running away....you are such humour

What union did you represent and how high was your soap box

Sorry,

I'm white colour mate.

Big salary and corner office.

Of course you are, it clearly shows by the language you use :-)

If you have a thai gf/wife I bet she has a phd. :-D

[monkeycountry]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

Assuming the PTP wins the next election, what would be their motivation for any reform? They clearly don't need to make any reforms as their voters seem to support them no matter what they do, and Thaksin has made it clear in the past that he wants less checks and balances, not more, so he can get things done without interruption from anyone.

[ThailandNoob]

Is the Electoral Commission on the list of parts of the bureaucracy that need "reform"? When members are attending rallies by a political movement that wants to stop an election, then one strongly suspects that they are not independent ...

Also how about freeing the military and the judiciary from "political meddling"?

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[fab4]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

You mean keeping a corrupt government in power and then reforms, NOT ON YOUR NELLY, ---AFTER the courts have come up with their verdicts.

So your employee gets his fingers in the till you keep in on, No way, get rid and ask how to stop the fingers getting in the till. (reform)

What is it with people on here? I spell out exactly what I mean and you tell me that is not correct and what I meant to say was something else?

If my position was analogous to your interpretation of my post I would have said so - IT ISN'T AND I DIDN'T.

Read #39, forget what you posted, the USUAL skirting------This post is what I have been trying to put over for ages----again try to understand,

I look at the wrongs from the protesters point of view/stance But I am quite aware of the root problem, you seemingly are not.

Why forget what I posted, I wouldn't have posted what I did if I wanted to forget it. Tell you what, I'll forget what you posted. End of.

[Baerboxer]

I see the reds have come out in force to dump on these reform meetings.

It would seem that those attending the meetings and commenting are well qualified to do so having all been in senior positions and seen what the problems are and have good ideas on what needs to be done.

Perhaps the reds posting on here would like to report on and make comment on the PT and red group reform meetings and tell us just what reforms they propose to improve the country.

Oh hang on, I did read about the reforms Jutaporn and Ko Tee proposed, they all had to do with making war on the country and dividing it didn't they.

Those attending the meetings are a bunch of unemployed <deleted> who can't get another appointed job until the Democrats are back in office.

The Reds want to hold reform meetings that are fully representative of the people from all classes and all walks of life.

All the PDRC are doing is collecting the views of a teeny tiny minority of Thais who think they were born to rule and are hated by the masses.

Nothing proposed by these clowns will pass a vote by the citizens of the nation - waste of time for all but those involved and the political reporter from The Nation.

No they don't Bob. The reds want to hold reform meetings that they can control and influence to make sure any reform keeps them in power, at the trough and includes a whitewash amnesty for their crooked boss.

The PDRC want a reform process that they can control so they or their approved persons can take control and run the country how they see fit.

Hardly surprising there ain't any talking or progress.

Thaksin dictatorship v Old families manipulative feudalistic control

Pity the poor Thai people with that choice

[Baerboxer]

I see the reds have come out in force to dump on these reform meetings.

It would seem that those attending the meetings and commenting are well qualified to do so having all been in senior positions and seen what the problems are and have good ideas on what needs to be done.

Perhaps the reds posting on here would like to report on and make comment on the PT and red group reform meetings and tell us just what reforms they propose to improve the country.

Oh hang on, I did read about the reforms Jutaporn and Ko Tee proposed, they all had to do with making war on the country and dividing it didn't they.

Those attending the meetings are a bunch of unemployed <deleted> who can't get another appointed job until the Democrats are back in office.

The Reds want to hold reform meetings that are fully representative of the people from all classes and all walks of life.

All the PDRC are doing is collecting the views of a teeny tiny minority of Thais who think they were born to rule and are hated by the masses.

Nothing proposed by these clowns will pass a vote by the citizens of the nation - waste of time for all but those involved and the political reporter from The Nation.

[Thai at Heart]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Oh wonderful.

If politicians didn't interfere, the civil service would just run the country and Thailand would reach utopia.

Oh dear, my aching ribs. These people are just too precious. Is there anywhere to watch these forums live?

[Thait Spot]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And who exactly gets to chose the peoples council and how will it be done? through votes?? surely not? Nepotism is alright as long as we're doing it eh??

Only someone with the intellect of a boiled haggis could assume that by despising nepotism and corruption and wanting reform that I somehow support the appointment of a "people's council"

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And yet you failed to answer the opening question, so are you just going to attempt to insult my intellect, or answer it??

Did I say YOU supported it? you make the assumption, but if the cap fits I guess ..

You assumed an awful lot without actually addressing the point I was making..

Who appoints the peoples council? Someone neck deep in corruption? Is it done through a ballot system? Will there be transparency as to whom these candidates will be, who will they be accountable to??

Nepotism all the way in this case, you agreed 100% with the forum, and yet cannot answer the question, instead you try to belittle me by making out that somehow you're "better" than me, I don't really care to be honest, up to you, but my point is you will never ever get rid of Nepotism, it's like corruption, it's a way of life.

What's the first thing you do, when you take over a position of responsibility ? Most people bring in someone they can trust, happens all the time in my line of work, as it does all over the place, normally you're right hand man has been with you long enough to know how you work, and is there as an extension of yourself.

Why on earth should I answer a barrage of questions on a subject that I have no time for?

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[Thait Spot]

Who elects these people ? elected and appointed by whom? who chooses this committee? that is what I'm asking, makes no odds to me, I'm just the Farang like most people, who don't have a say in how the Thais ru(i)n their country

So my baseless assumption would be that Mr Moonbeam comes down from Planet Zog, and then reaches out and touches these "chosen few" ??

So in essence it would be an non elected group of people, self electing another group of people, that would run the country to reform the election process among st other issues?

Would be better then to have a military cuop and let the people with the guns chose.. and they'd used what to appoint the next Cabinet? Nepotism or a bucket full of ping pong balls filled with MP's names on them??

As I said, Nepotism, and Corruption are a way of life, and if the Farangs that have lived in Thailand for decades, they'd surely know this to be the case too.

It's a cultural thing, what I'm getting at is that yeah they're wrong on so many accounts, but they're part of the culture, and no amount of bitching and moaning by a few disgruntled farangs on a forum is going to change it.

Great if the Thais can rid the country of them both, but when neither side can agree on the colour of sh*te, that's a long long road and mountain to climb into the bargain.

" As I said, Nepotism, and Corruption are a way of life"

So are you saying that they should therefore remain?

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[Thai at Heart]

Of course the irony of a self appointed committee moaning about nepotism was lost on the assembled Thais.....

Our selection process is less bent than your selection process?

Edited March 22, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[ginjag]

You mean keeping a corrupt government in power and then reforms, NOT ON YOUR NELLY, ---AFTER the courts have come up with their verdicts.

So your employee gets his fingers in the till you keep in on, No way, get rid and ask how to stop the fingers getting in the till. (reform)

What is it with people on here? I spell out exactly what I mean and you tell me that is not correct and what I meant to say was something else?

If my position was analogous to your interpretation of my post I would have said so - IT ISN'T AND I DIDN'T.

Read #39, forget what you posted, the USUAL skirting------This post is what I have been trying to put over for ages----again try to understand,

I look at the wrongs from the protesters point of view/stance But I am quite aware of the root problem, you seemingly are not.

Why forget what I posted, I wouldn't have posted what I did if I wanted to forget it. Tell you what, I'll forget what you posted. End of.

No problem as I was really pigged off with the same stuff, defending a defunct government, that just blames others for their wrongdoings, and to top it all we have a handful of westerners siding with them, joke.

I have said all along you get what you reap. No excuses near 3 years in power and they greedily mucked it up.

[Krataiboy]

It is becoming increasingly clear that the vast majority of the Thai electorate - whatever their political persuasion - want an end to the endemic corruption, cronyism and nepotism which currently characterises government at local as well as national level.

The PDRC is right in insisting that this should be the major priority of any future administration, but wrong in attempting to unseat the elected government and supplant it with a unelected representatives.

Thailand faces many economic and social challenges, but if my Thai friends and associates are to be believed, the party which commits itself to de-lousing Thai politics and comes up with a workable plan to achieve this worthy goal would romp home in the next general election.

If neither of the two main parties have the stomach for the fight (and if this is the case, the electorate should be asking themselves why!), the field will be open to one of the minor parties - or even a new party with an anti-corruption platform - to enter the fray.

In the West, notably Europe and the UK, disenchantment with politics and politicians has persuaded many voters to switch their allegiance to alternative groups with policies more radical and challenging than those of the established parties.

If neither Yingluck or Abhisit can deliver the goods, perhaps the Thai equivalent of a UKIP can.