Chiang Mai Traffic Continued

[just plain different]

I’ve waited more than a couple weeks to continue this discussion. Thought I’d let everyone cast their votes, and I preferred to avoid getting caught up in all the self-incriminating “you’ll never last in Thailand” sort of flames from those who apparently have no social skills anywhere.

I will hold fast that in the conflict between me and Thai traffic, I am not in the wrong. Pedestrians should be able to cross streets without people barreling down at them and expecting them to leap out of the way or flatten themselves against walls (such as when a car plows through a soi). There seem to be a lot of flamers here, who have adapted to the Thai lifestyle and particularly the precepts and noble path set down by the Buddha so extraordinarily well, that I am forced to point out that someone can identify a problem in a given country while also accepting it’s existence, hence “adapting”.

First, let’s simplify things by addressing incidents where the pedestrian can’t be construed by the most heroic attempts of internet trolls to be in the wrong. A pedestrian is cautiously crossing at a light after having pushed the button and the light turned green. Still, some cars will not even slow down, and, yes, some of those sorts of drivers are Farang who think, “When in Rome”. Let’s also assume that the driver who isn’t slowing down is NOT at risk of being rear-ended if he or she does so. This example isn’t far-fetched, as I’ve seen it happen plenty of times and have also been that pedestrian. And no it isn’t natural or inevitable that motorists should feel free to mow down pedestrians, cyclists…, because it’s completely different in neighboring Laos and Vietnam.

In Vietnam one is supposed to not even look at the traffic while crossing the road because it can confuse the drivers and cause accidents. Everyone assumes and accepts that it is the driver’s sole responsibility to go around the pedestrians. Note to trolls/flamers – I might actually have a hard time fully adapting to that!

If you go to Laos, in my experience, the traffic situation isn’t a problem. I spent a couple months in Laos and rode a bicycle every chance I got. I felt perfectly safe and there was never a problem. In fact, I think I was the most dangerous thing on the road, because, coming from Bangkok, I had the “anything goes” attitude. I don’t know why the motorists in Laos were so much more considerate—and consideration and courtesy are the REAL issue here—but suppose it has to do with the laws and the enforcement thereof.

But, in Chiang Mai, a lot of motorists don’t stop even when you have the green. This is particularly striking when the same motorist, when he gets out of his car, might lower himself respectfully while walking by the same man he might have slaughtered with his vehicle. Interestingly, Thais NEVER walk into me when I walk on the street, nor do they expect me to get out of their way (we can compromise). Compare that with walking around in Manhattan.

I’m starting to think that when Thais get into their cars, or even just on their bikes, it’s as if they adopt a cloak of anonymity that allows them to be complete inconsiderate A-holes [the Farang that drive in the same style probably are very honestly the same inconsiderate SOBs face-to-face]. Maybe being Terminators on the road is an outlet for Thais who have to at all other times act deferentially. This is their chance to be completely selfish and inconsiderate, to the extent that if a pedestrian doesn’t leap out of the way fast enough, he or she will honk at them to remind them that they are mere animal dung.

To me it’s kind of ironic that Thai transform so completely when they get behind a wheel. And no, we aren’t talking about pedestrians brazenly leaping into busy roadways and break dancing. We’re talking about situations where people are merely trying to get from point A to point B, including crossing where there are lights.

Now, before any of you go on about how I won't last here and all that sort of crap (I've already been here too long to "not last") -- I'm just making an observation. Agree with it or disagree. Share some knowlege. But keep your member in your pants 'cause there's no one to screw here.

Edited June 3, 2006 by just plain different

[Maejo Man]

Was there a point that I missed somewhere in all that diatribe just plain different?

[just plain different]

Was there a point that I missed somewhere in all that diatribe just plain different?

Obviously more than one. You might do well to review the last sentence.

I'm gonna' pass on doing the song and dance with flamers. No offense if I don't like offense, I hope. Nobody feel hurt if I don't bother responding to flung shit.

Edited June 3, 2006 by just plain different

[Maejo Man]

I'm gonna' pass on doing the song and dance with flamers. No offense if I don't like offense, I hope. Nobody feel hurt if I don't bother responding to flung shit.

Ever hear the expression "wind up"? Seems to work every time here Quite frankly I found your post of no earthly use, other than to fill up forum space, and that's my obsevation However, it's a free world so they say, and we are all entitled to out obsevations......

[PeaceBlondie]

Can I try in vain to rescue a topic that's going nowhere?

First, I can't recall a button to push for pedestrians; it's every person for theirselves. Mai bpen rai

The construction on those overpasses for the outer ring - will they be finished before 2552? I mean on the Thai calendar...

In my one year of absence, how many songtaew have been replaced by taximeters that use the meter? Both of them?

[Thaipwriter]

I’m starting to think that when Thais get into their cars, or even just on their bikes, it’s as if they adopt a cloak of anonymity that allows them to be complete inconsiderate A-holes.

Dont bother "starting" to think this.

Believe it.

Adjust your behaviour as a pedestrian/motorcyclist/motorist to reflect this attitude and you will be ok.

Dont try to change it, or complain about it, or lose your cool over it.

Just accept it and get on with your life

[just plain different]

Can I try in vain to rescue a topic that's going nowhere?

First, I can't recall a button to push for pedestrians; it's every person for theirselves. Mai bpen rai

The construction on those overpasses for the outer ring - will they be finished before 2552? I mean on the Thai calendar...

In my one year of absence, how many songtaew have been replaced by taximeters that use the meter? Both of them?

I know of three crossings with buttons. I thought everyone knew the one at Thai Pae gate.

Do posts normally go somewhere? Those should get gold starts.

Make that 4 crossings with buttons. Just remembered another.

Uhhh, five…

Edited June 3, 2006 by just plain different

[just plain different]

I'm gonna' pass on doing the song and dance with flamers. No offense if I don't like offense, I hope. Nobody feel hurt if I don't bother responding to flung shit.

Ever hear the expression "wind up"? Seems to work every time here Quite frankly I found your post of no earthly use, other than to fill up forum space, and that's my obsevation However, it's a free world so they say, and we are all entitled to out obsevations......

"Wind up" meaning "flame". Yes, it is always easy to annoy people by flaming them, almost as easy as spitting at them. It takes much more character to ignore such sad little attacks… Keep that in mind when your future little gibes meat only stoney silence.

If you can manage an intelligent comment I might trouble myself to think about and respond to it, but somehow I think an intelligent comment won't be forthcoming.

[Maejo Man]

"Wind up" meaning "flame". Yes, it is always easy to annoy people by flaming them....

If you can manage an intelligent comment I might trouble myself to think about and respond to it, but somehow I think an intelligent comment won't be forthcoming.

On the contrary, not the same, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference. You're right! You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread, it just doesn't merit the effort....Now let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon

[Donnyboy]

In my one year of absence, how many songtaew have been replaced by taximeters that use the meter? Both of them?

the slow death of the songtaew (being replaced) cant happen soon enough in my opinion,

most are in a bad state belching black smoke and they think parking in the middle of a busy road to pick up passengers is their right.

[just plain different]

"Wind up" meaning "flame". Yes, it is always easy to annoy people by flaming them....

If you can manage an intelligent comment I might trouble myself to think about and respond to it, but somehow I think an intelligent comment won't be forthcoming.

On the contrary, not the same, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference. You're right! You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread, it just doesn't merit the effort....Now let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon

Please, be my guest. Move on and leave off the trolling. I'm not stopping you or the rest of the forum whom you arrogantly presume to speak for.

By the waty, were there elections that I missed? When you say, "You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread," is that because you are the elected representative of all posters and either know or control what they might write? When you say, "let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon," are you in a room with all the other posters who are nodding in agreement, or are you alone inflating yourself up to believe you speak for everyone else?

Just speak for yourself. Let you argument carry it's own weitght. You don't need to pretend to be a mob.

[Maejo Man]

By the waty, were there elections that I missed?

Probably, it's the season for them, but I didn't go either

[chuchok]

"Wind up" meaning "flame". Yes, it is always easy to annoy people by flaming them....

If you can manage an intelligent comment I might trouble myself to think about and respond to it, but somehow I think an intelligent comment won't be forthcoming.

On the contrary, not the same, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference. You're right! You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread, it just doesn't merit the effort....Now let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon

Please, be my guest. Move on and leave off the trolling. I'm not stopping you or the rest of the forum whom you arrogantly presume to speak for.

By the waty, were there elections that I missed? When you say, "You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread," is that because you are the elected representative of all posters and either know or control what they might write? When you say, "let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon," are you in a room with all the other posters who are nodding in agreement, or are you alone inflating yourself up to believe you speak for everyone else?

Just speak for yourself. Let you argument carry it's own weitght. You don't need to pretend to be a mob.

let me sum it up then...

the thais here drive like <deleted> and have no respest for the laws of the road,yet,when a farang twice their size walks down the sidewalk like he owns the place,they get out of the way.

did I miss something?

[meadish_sweetball]

_post_

So what is your solution? Right now you are just pointing fingers at 60 million people at a time.

Dont bother "starting" to think this.

Believe it.

Adjust your behaviour as a pedestrian/motorcyclist/motorist to reflect this attitude and you will be ok.

Dont try to change it, or complain about it, or lose your cool over it.

Just accept it and get on with your life

Agreed. Except, that if you do want to change it, complaining on a web forum read primarily by other expats is not going to accomplish much.

What are you trying to achieve, justplaindifferent?

[ThaiPauly]

I agree with you that it is not easy for pedestrians to cross roads here..bt its harder in BK.

This came from somewhere else but I was told that when a Thai gets into a car they DO remove themselves to a different plain and feel invincible....It has also been said that "Thais drive like they have just stolen the car they are driving"!

However these are just suppositions.. when my Wife drives me..she is extremely careful (she has only had 5 accidents in 18 months) ..I know she is concentrating hard...mostly on NOT having an accident....she is so well aquainted with the Insurance Assesor she gets a Christmas card from him!!

ALSO..you can "Buy" your driving test (well you can in BK) for just 1000 Baht, not take the test and get your license! If you are Thai.

So if you imagine that say 1 in 10 people are not qualified to drive even BEFORE they have had a drink its no wonder that Thailand has a death rate among Motorists 10 times higher than the UK..A country with a similar poulation size.

But WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

NOTHING !!!

This is the way it is here..accept it or leave...you will probably have a much higher risk of being injured in a Car Crash here than in the west... but a far higher risk of being mugged back home.

Take your pick

TP

[just plain different]

"Wind up" meaning "flame". Yes, it is always easy to annoy people by flaming them....

If you can manage an intelligent comment I might trouble myself to think about and respond to it, but somehow I think an intelligent comment won't be forthcoming.

On the contrary, not the same, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference. You're right! You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread, it just doesn't merit the effort....Now let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon

Please, be my guest. Move on and leave off the trolling. I'm not stopping you or the rest of the forum whom you arrogantly presume to speak for.

By the waty, were there elections that I missed? When you say, "You are not going to get an intelligent comment on this thread," is that because you are the elected representative of all posters and either know or control what they might write? When you say, "let's all get on with a fun rainy saturday afternoon," are you in a room with all the other posters who are nodding in agreement, or are you alone inflating yourself up to believe you speak for everyone else?

Just speak for yourself. Let you argument carry it's own weitght. You don't need to pretend to be a mob.

let me sum it up then...

the thais here drive like <deleted> and have no respest for the laws of the road,yet,when a farang twice their size walks down the sidewalk like he owns the place,they get out of the way.

did I miss something?

Yeah. My point was that Thais are courteous when walking on the sidewalk--irrespective of the size of the Farang--but they aren't when they are in their cars. If the Farang is older and puny, they may stoop to try and lower themselves beneath him. But once in their cars, if he happens to cross their path, there's no such thing as a "break".

[just plain different]

I agree with you that it is not easy for pedestrians to cross roads here..bt its harder in BK.

This came from somewhere else but I was told that when a Thai gets into a car they DO remove themselves to a different plain and feel invincible....It has also been said that "Thais drive like they have just stolen the car they are driving"!

However these are just suppositions.. when my Wife drives me..she is extremely careful (she has only had 5 accidents in 18 months) ..I know she is concentrating hard...mostly on NOT having an accident....she is so well aquainted with the Insurance Assesor she gets a Christmas card from him!!

ALSO..you can "Buy" your driving test (well you can in BK) for just 1000 Baht, not take the test and get your license! If you are Thai.

So if you imagine that say 1 in 10 people are not qualified to drive even BEFORE they have had a drink its no wonder that Thailand has a death rate among Motorists 10 times higher than the UK..A country with a similar poulation size.

But WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

NOTHING !!!

This is the way it is here..accept it or leave...you will probably have a much higher risk of being injured in a Car Crash here than in the west... but a far higher risk of being mugged back home.

Take your pick

TP

Oh shit, I better mention this before someone attacks me. There ARE EXCEPTIONS! There are some Thais that do slow down and have even waved me across. These tend to be the older Thais. I only walk, so I have a fair amount of experience with traffic, here and in Bangkok. Wasn't as bad in BKK in my experience because there are a LOT more pedestrians and cross traffic. You can't just barrel down a road like you own it without being suicidal in BKK.

[just plain different]

But WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

NOTHING !!!

This is the way it is here..accept it or leave...

Ha, ha, ha, ha. See my OP on not liking something but accepting that it exists. I just LOVE people who give other people "leave the country" ultimatums. I wouldn't even think of doing that to a foreigner in my own country of origin; but to be an expat in Thailand giving other people ultimatums -- that's rich. Thanks for the chuckle.

[JXXXL]

But WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

NOTHING !!!

This is the way it is here..accept it or leave...

Ha, ha, ha, ha. See my OP on not liking something but accepting that it exists. I just LOVE people who give other people "leave the country" ultimatums. I wouldn't even think of doing that to a foreigner in my own country of origin; but to be an expat in Thailand giving other people ultimatums -- that's rich. Thanks for the chuckle.

It's an involuntary reaction commonly espoused by less intelligent expats, sort of like a rhetorical fart or vomit.

[agsnowdon]

How about you think up of some way to sort this problem of yours out, or even better ask this forum to think of a solution to your road crossing dilemma.

Once you find it out be sure to let every other person in CM know to so they can cross the road safely.

Comments in general....

I drive and when I see a red light at a pedestrian crossing with no one in sight I run it.

I cross roads, but I all ways look left then right and then left and right again.

Ahhhh look here’s your solution to your road crossing dilemma.

"All ways look left then right and then left and right again"

I'm not gonna say if you don't like it leave the country or anything like that, but that’s the way it is here.

Lets turn this situation around! Not in the same scenario but something to go on.

If a Thai came to England and posted a thread on "UKVISA.COM"

Why do the Brits have their own separate meals and not have lots of separate dishes and share together when they eat.

I can't get over how crazy it is bla bla bla.

-------------------

I think you might get similar responses to the ones your getting now.

(Sorry for the lame example but all I’m thinking of at the mo is England and thinking that you should be thinking of your home countries prospects for the world cup instead of how <deleted> the Thais/Farangs drive in Chiang Mai)

Ash

[just plain different]

How about you think up of some way to sort this problem of yours out, or even better ask this forum to think of a solution to your road crossing dilemma.

Once you find it out be sure to let every other person in CM know to so they can cross the road safely.

Comments in general....

I drive and when I see a red light at a pedestrian crossing with no one in sight I run it.

I cross roads, but I all ways look left then right and then left and right again.

Ahhhh look here’s your solution to your road crossing dilemma.

"All ways look left then right and then left and right again"

I'm not gonna say if you don't like it leave the country or anything like that, but that’s the way it is here.

Lets turn this situation around! Not in the same scenario but something to go on.

If a Thai came to England and posted a thread on "UKVISA.COM"

Why do the Brits have their own separate meals and not have lots of separate dishes and share together when they eat.

I can't get over how crazy it is bla bla bla.

-------------------

I think you might get similar responses to the ones your getting now.

(Sorry for the lame example but all I’m thinking of at the mo is England and thinking that you should be thinking of your home countries prospects for the world cup instead of how <deleted> the Thais/Farangs drive in Chiang Mai)

Ash

Your analogy doesn't work because the number of dishes one is served isn't a matter of consideration for other human beings, but rather just a custom. Your "solution" to my "problem" also doesn't work because: a) I made an observation and didn't say I had any "problem." and there isn't any question of my ability to see or judge oncoming traffic.

Let me give you another example and see if you can wrap your mind around it. Some Thais, and lots of Vietnamese think it's just fine to cut in line in front of one. Ever have this happen? Ever have 3 or 4 or 5 people cut in line in front of you? Happens a lot in Vietnam. Well, let's say you don't particularly dig this proclivity, and you bring it up on an internet forum. Then someone tells you, "That's the way it is here. You can't do anything about it. Accept it or get out!" It might cross your mind that the person who wrote that to you is a bit of an ass.

Then, another person might write that what you should do is look infront of you, then look behind you, and that will solve your "problem" in lines in Vietnam.

[chuchok]

Yeah. My point was that Thais are courteous when walking on the sidewalk--irrespective of the size of the Farang--but they aren't when they are in their cars. If the Farang is older and puny, they may stoop to try and lower themselves beneath him. But once in their cars, if he happens to cross their path, there's no such thing as a "break".

You have just described many people from many nations around the world.As soon as some people hop into a drivers seat, they grow big pointie teath and little red horns.Over here the transformation is just a little more dramatic.

All I know is, that if you cut somebody off where I come from, you have a very good chance in getting into some more serious trouble.At least up here, you are expected to cut people off and drive like a tit.I do.

[agsnowdon]

a) I made an observation and didn't say I had any "problem." and there isn't any question of my ability to see or judge oncoming traffic.

Ok you made an observation big deal Thais drive like <deleted> you now have to accept that and get on with it.

I'm happy you can know the rules of crossing roads so no problems there to moan about there and you shall be back on TV tom.

Queue cutting happens to a lot in Thailand.

What are you gonna do about any of these things how bout start a thread that is able to progress and actually solve something.

Oh how long you been in LOS/CM and intending on staying?

[just plain different]

a) I made an observation and didn't say I had any "problem." and there isn't any question of my ability to see or judge oncoming traffic.

Ok you made an observation big deal Thais drive like <deleted> you now have to accept that and get on with it.

I'm happy you can know the rules of crossing roads so no problems there to moan about there and you shall be back on TV tom.

Queue cutting happens to a lot in Thailand.

What are you gonna do about any of these things how bout start a thread that is able to progress and actually solve something.

Oh how long you been in LOS/CM and intending on staying?

Actually my observation isn't that Thais drive like <deleted>. That's your oversimplification, and what follows is your reaction to your own oversimplification.

The problem with your thinking here is that it only allows one to discuss things one can actually do anything about in Thailand. I'm about positive you only apply this criterion when it suits you and never considered it's implications.

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

[agsnowdon]

a) I made an observation and didn't say I had any "problem." and there isn't any question of my ability to see or judge oncoming traffic.

Ok you made an observation big deal Thais drive like <deleted> you now have to accept that and get on with it.

I'm happy you can know the rules of crossing roads so no problems there to moan about there and you shall be back on TV tom.

Queue cutting happens to a lot in Thailand.

What are you gonna do about any of these things how bout start a thread that is able to progress and actually solve something.

Oh how long you been in LOS/CM and intending on staying?

Actually my observation isn't that Thais drive like <deleted>. That's your oversimplification, and what follows is your reaction to your own oversimplification.

The problem with your thinking here is that it only allows one to discuss things one can actually do anything about in Thailand. I'm about positive you only apply this criterion when it suits you and never considered it's implications.

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

You still didn't answer my question

[dana_leigh]

at the risk of getting pummeled, i find the situation justdifferent described to be probably the most trying thing about living in chiang mai.

as a full-time pedestrian--here as well as in my previous homes in the u.s. and elsewhere in the world--i find aggressive, non-pedestrian-considerate motor traffic more than a personal annoyance. beyond a "mere" reflection of inconsiderate behavior, it's just plain harmful to others. so, whether in thailand or elsewhere, i'm opposed to this situation in the same way i'd be opposed to other situations or behaviors that are harmful to others--such as dumping sludge in the street, for example.

and--just to make sure i get pummeled extra hard--another thing to note is that when people are walking they are (ususally) contributing less noise and pollution to the surrounding environment--a good for all that might at least earn them the right to cross at lights and crosswalks with ease.

[Diablo Bob]

Well after reading EVERYTHING I don't really care about concerning the driving manners of Thai's & Falangs in CM, my observations:

just plain different you TV name is accurate, are you lonely? You seem on the verge of arguing with yourself here!

Face it, "This isn't Kansas anymore ToTo!" You are in Thailand, Not Laos, Not Vietnam but Thailand so forget about the manners elsewhere, they don't apply.

On another subject..... why restart a thread that was a failure the first time. Checking to see if anybody changed their minds?

[chuchok]

Well after reading EVERYTHING I don't really care about concerning the driving manners of Thai's & Falangs in CM, my observations:

just plain different you TV name is accurate, are you lonely? You seem on the verge of arguing with yourself here!

Face it, "This isn't Kansas anymore ToTo!" You are in Thailand, Not Laos, Not Vietnam but Thailand so forget about the manners elsewhere, they don't apply.

On another subject..... why restart a thread that was a failure the first time. Checking to see if anybody changed their minds?

Trying to change the driving habits here,would be like farting against thunder.

Edited June 4, 2006 by chuchok

[just plain different]

Well after reading EVERYTHING I don't really care about concerning the driving manners of Thai's & Falangs in CM, my observations:

just plain different you TV name is accurate, are you lonely? You seem on the verge of arguing with yourself here!

Face it, "This isn't Kansas anymore ToTo!" You are in Thailand, Not Laos, Not Vietnam but Thailand so forget about the manners elsewhere, they don't apply.

On another subject..... why restart a thread that was a failure the first time. Checking to see if anybody changed their minds?

The underlying point you seem to be struggling to come out with is that since Thailand isn't anywhere else one must not compare it to anywhere else. By this logic one couldn't compare anything to anything else, because: football isn't American football;Thai food isn't Western food; soi dogs aren't purebreds; and (perhaps something you CAN appreciate) Thai bar girls aren't Farang women (a comparison you doubtlessly have spoken volumes on) …

But then, the nature of comparison is specifically to look at a given subject in relation to others. So, your point is, well, stupid.

[just plain different]

Well after reading EVERYTHING I don't really care about concerning the driving manners of Thai's & Falangs in CM, my observations:

just plain different you TV name is accurate, are you lonely? You seem on the verge of arguing with yourself here!

Face it, "This isn't Kansas anymore ToTo!" You are in Thailand, Not Laos, Not Vietnam but Thailand so forget about the manners elsewhere, they don't apply.

On another subject..... why restart a thread that was a failure the first time. Checking to see if anybody changed their minds?

Trying to change the driving habits here,would be like farting against thunder.

Just as trying to change the weather in Thailand would be like spitting at the sun. But that doesn't mean you can't discuss the weather.