Redshirts in Isaan keep faith with benefactor Thaksin

[rubl]

We're (well I am) talking about the present time as in the thread.

So nobody is out there claiming to be the saviour of the poor, at the present time, not even Thaksin, as your post implied. Thank you.

but ... but ... but the Yingluck government or should I say the Thaksin ordered around government? Didn't they help the poor with the 300 Baht a day, 800 billion on rice price pledging to help poor farmers.

I guess I have to re-read the statement Ms. Yingluck read out in parliament August 2011. The longl ist of things to do with many "to be handled the first year".

" but, but " - a tired debating technique, rubl. You may recognise the next phrase,

Meanwhile, back on the the "Redshirts in Isaan keep faith with benefactor Thaksin" thread

not the

"rubl states that Thaksin is running a puppet government through his sister Yingluck, poor blah blah, minimum wage blah blah, rice price pledging blah blah" thread

Well, you came with that list of 'others' asking what they did for the poor and when last Thaksin had said he was doing anything for the poor.

If you think that answering your questions shows you asked the wrong question, that's fine with me. I also thought that the question showed an attempt to divert the discussion from some inconvenient truth.

[somo]

Whatever you think of Taksin he has given power to Isaan voters.

Before him no Bangkok politician gave them a thought. Now Isaan, thanks to Taksin, has a huge influence

on who wins elections. Politicians from all sides are falling over each other to pump money into the region. Since Mr. T instigated this he is of course well thought of in the region and rightly so.

Because Taksin focused on Issan it has for the past decade been growing economically 3 times as fast as the Bangkok region and the people there know that the democrats/yellows/etc think of them as too ignorant to deserve a vote which they naturally find offensive.

It is not in the least suprising that they still support him whatever his faults.

Judicial and military coups have repeatedly overthrown elected governments and each time try to change the rules under which new govs. are formed. So far none of them have stopped the the people returning pro Taksin Govs. which says a lot for the strength of his support.

Thaksin saw that there were votes in Isaan. That is the ONLY reason he ever gave them a second thought.

Sent from my phone...

Of course. He's a politician not a saint but he was also the ONLY one who did give them a second thought and as a result he or his party have won all subsequent elections which international bodies have declared free and fair. Now all the losing politicians are calling foul because they didn't think of it first. They are all as bad as each other but Taksin has undeniably done a lot of good for the people of Isaan.

[somo]

Whatever you think of Taksin he has given power to Isaan voters.

Before him no Bangkok politician gave them a thought. Now Isaan, thanks to Taksin, has a huge influence

on who wins elections. Politicians from all sides are falling over each other to pump money into the region. Since Mr. T instigated this he is of course well thought of in the region and rightly so.

Because Taksin focused on Issan it has for the past decade been growing economically 3 times as fast as the Bangkok region and the people there know that the democrats/yellows/etc think of them as too ignorant to deserve a vote which they naturally find offensive.

It is not in the least suprising that they still support him whatever his faults.

Judicial and military coups have repeatedly overthrown elected governments and each time try to change the rules under which new govs. are formed. So far none of them have stopped the the people returning pro Taksin Govs. which says a lot for the strength of his support.

Well that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Another opinion could be it says a lot about their lack of knowledge of what is going on.

Or another one could be about their lack of schooling.

Or another one he pay's more for their vote.

Lot's of opinions out there. Perchance a bit of each in his popularity. If he really has any. He has hired thugs to lead the gullible. With out them would he have any support. Even in the red shirts their is a growing number saying he should stay out of politics.

It is not my opinion. My post was factual.

As for your suggestions they are as you say yourself just possible opinions which are easily dismissed.

Clearly saying the people of Isaan don't know what is going on is silly and their lack of schooling is irrelevant. Their votes carry the same weight as anyone else or do you think like some they should not count?

Vote buying, by both sides, has been dismissed as having little effect on the outcome of elections. Most people will accept the payouts and then vote for whoever they want to. Elections in the USA are more about who has the most money than here in Thailand.

[hyperdimension]

Taksin has undeniably done a lot of good for the people of Isaan.

Should they continue to vote for his parties just because he supposedly helped them once or twice so many years ago?

Could it be that his parties offer populist policies that they find extremely attractive, like a ya-ba addict unable to decline an offer of free methamphetamine?

The Democrat Party would certainly have received more votes (and maybe even win an election) if they had offered populist policies that were at least as attractive as Thaksin's parties' short-lasting but vote-garnering policies (15k THB per ton of rice, 300 THB per day minimum wage, one tablet computer per child), but it would have been fiscally irresponsible, with the gigantic rice-pledging fiasco being one current example.

The masses would certainly look after their own interests before considering the country's economic health and stability, which is understandable, but this fact is too easily taken advantage of by power-hungry politicians. Should a political party be prevented from offering over-the-top populist policies to the gullible masses just in order to get voted into power?

Edited March 25, 2014 by hyperdimension

[somo]

Politicians are much the same the world over. They all offer populist policies as their only objective is to get elected.
For most of them the end justifies the means. If they have to lie and cheat to get power they will do so and justify it by claiming they are the best choice for the nation.
Arrogant bunch. I don't think you can legislate against this sort of behaviour ie make it illegal to break election promises and the prisons would be full worlwide.

[wwest5829]

It seems only reasonable that if someone throws a lot of ( other ) people's money at you, you're going to like him. The poor remain poor not because Thaksin doesn't know the story of teaching how to fish rather than buying a fish. The poor remain poor because Thaksin benefits far more if they remain poor. He needs them to come back again and again. Self-sufficiency is the last thing Thaksin wants for the poor. And he doesn't want them informed either. He needs them indoctrinated by red shirt radio, so that each day they are told that the people of Bangkok don't like them. Not only that, but they're " elite ". " Us " versus " them " works for Thaksin. He needs both dependency and anger. As long as the people remain poor and uninformed, Thaksin maintains the base he wants. He can feed both the dependency and the anger. The problem for Thaksin is not that the farmers have become rich. The problem for Thaksin is that they have become informed.

Oops, my mind slipped into thinking about the wealthy in numerous countries doing the same. Not defending Khun Thaksin, just remembering that while not having clean hands, he stands out as having done something for the poor. Thai political parties of all flavor sneed to have a better balance in taking care of the populace. This is the real cause of the current debacle, not one man.

[whybother]

Whatever you think of Taksin he has given power to Isaan voters.

Before him no Bangkok politician gave them a thought. Now Isaan, thanks to Taksin, has a huge influence

on who wins elections. Politicians from all sides are falling over each other to pump money into the region. Since Mr. T instigated this he is of course well thought of in the region and rightly so.

Because Taksin focused on Issan it has for the past decade been growing economically 3 times as fast as the Bangkok region and the people there know that the democrats/yellows/etc think of them as too ignorant to deserve a vote which they naturally find offensive.

It is not in the least suprising that they still support him whatever his faults.

Judicial and military coups have repeatedly overthrown elected governments and each time try to change the rules under which new govs. are formed. So far none of them have stopped the the people returning pro Taksin Govs. which says a lot for the strength of his support.

Thaksin saw that there were votes in Isaan. That is the ONLY reason he ever gave them a second thought.

Sent from my phone...

Of course. He's a politician not a saint but he was also the ONLY one who did give them a second thought and as a result he or his party have won all subsequent elections which international bodies have declared free and fair. Now all the losing politicians are calling foul because they didn't think of it first. They are all as bad as each other but Taksin has undeniably done a lot of good for the people of Isaan.

Undeniably? That's questionable.

Did the "good" come from Thaksin or the booming global economy? Why haven't his proxy governments been able to do anything since the global economy crashed?

[Jonmarleesco]

Here we go again! The foreign media persists in seeing these protests in the simplistic guise of a class war.

[Fat Haggis]

Vote buying shouldn't be a concern, it's not like there's a vote every month, and the average cost for a vote is 300 baht, that's what was offered to the people in the village where I live, for the election on the 2nd, there's only about 50 odd houses there, average 3 4 adults a house, that's 200 legible voters @300 baht, 6000 baht cash injection into a village on one day per year at the most? It's nothing, it's a couple of days worth of food, but can you blame those on low incomes for taking it?

Poor.. what's everyone's definition of poor? How many TVF members live in the simple houses with no aircon, no hot running water, a squat and drop toilet? No many I'd say, I do, and I love it, I have never seen anyone in the village look miserable unless Thailand ladies volleyball team loses, they are by no means well off, but as another poster said, they're happy.

Why do they keep their faith in Thaksin? He doesn't make their lives any better by a long shot, but it's more down to the simple fact that they don't like the alternatives.. It's like Regions in the Central Belt in Scotland have been Labour through and through, and it's been family tradition and the Trade Unions kept the fires stokes against all the other parties, it's no different in Issan, the locals all said they didn't like Thaksin as he stole from Buddha but it didn't stop them from voting foe him.

The constant name calling and belittling of them from the Thais in Bangkok and the South does little to enhance the relationships either, and it's the same with farangs on here, most of us are fortunate to have had a higher standard of education, higher standard of living , and for the most part, have never endured poverty. Most have come to Thailand with comfortable finances, and have all the fancy gadgets needed to make their lives parallel what they left behind too.

To ridicule those less fortunate than yourselves is very ignorant indeed, perhaps walking a mile in their shoes would make you feel a little bit more humble, and appreciate that you have a luxury that many of these rural folks don't. Making comments abut being poor but having smart phones, is pretty poor, you do realise that many of these phones are Chinese knock offs you can buy in the weekly markets for a few thousand Baht? Many Issan families can only dream about having many luxuries we take for granted, I'm sure there's some posters here who've at one stage in their life hit rock bottom and it wasn't a nice feeling, but the greater majority didn't settle in Thailand without good solid finances behind them, and that's awesome, but you should never look down on those less fortunate than yourself.

I love the village life, it's better than the rat race of the city of Edinburgh where I lived before, I have a very good, well paying job, and without that I'd never have been able to see the good and the bad in Thailand, I would never dream of looking down on anyone less fortunate than myself, I had a reasonable lifestyle back in the UK, but I have a much more fulfilling one right now, right in among st these very warm and very generous villagers.

Don't be too quick to judge these people guys, and if they're set in their ways, it's very hard to change that.. so why bother? If they've milled their rice a particular way for generations, they don't take too kindly to be told their "doing it wrong" it worked for them long enough

[hyperdimension]

Politicians are much the same the world over. They all offer populist policies as their only objective is to get elected.

For most of them the end justifies the means. If they have to lie and cheat to get power they will do so and justify it by claiming they are the best choice for the nation.

Arrogant bunch. I don't think you can legislate against this sort of behaviour ie make it illegal to break election promises and the prisons would be full worlwide.

Something should be done (hopefully as part of whatever reform takes place) about political parties over-promising when campaigning to be elected. Otherwise it can become a bidding war of who can fill the peoples' pockets the most using tax-payers' money plus massive borrowing.

[hyperdimension]

Why do they keep their faith in Thaksin? He doesn't make their lives any better by a long shot, but it's more down to the simple fact that they don't like the alternatives.. It's like Regions in the Central Belt in Scotland have been Labour through and through, and it's been family tradition and the Trade Unions kept the fires stokes against all the other parties, it's no different in Issan, the locals all said they didn't like Thaksin as he stole from Buddha but it didn't stop them from voting foe him.

Should people keep voting for the same person or party in such a blind manner? Would it be better if they informed themselves before making a decision, including finding out what each party promises to offer if elected, and whether those parties can be trusted to deliver those promises?

[AleG]

Vote buying shouldn't be a concern, it's not like there's a vote every month, and the average cost for a vote is 300 baht, that's what was offered to the people in the village where I live, for the election on the 2nd, there's only about 50 odd houses there, average 3 4 adults a house, that's 200 legible voters @300 baht, 6000 baht cash injection into a village on one day per year at the most? It's nothing, it's a couple of days worth of food, but can you blame those on low incomes for taking it?

Poor.. what's everyone's definition of poor? How many TVF members live in the simple houses with no aircon, no hot running water, a squat and drop toilet? No many I'd say, I do, and I love it, I have never seen anyone in the village look miserable unless Thailand ladies volleyball team loses, they are by no means well off, but as another poster said, they're happy.

Why do they keep their faith in Thaksin? He doesn't make their lives any better by a long shot, but it's more down to the simple fact that they don't like the alternatives.. It's like Regions in the Central Belt in Scotland have been Labour through and through, and it's been family tradition and the Trade Unions kept the fires stokes against all the other parties, it's no different in Issan, the locals all said they didn't like Thaksin as he stole from Buddha but it didn't stop them from voting foe him.

The constant name calling and belittling of them from the Thais in Bangkok and the South does little to enhance the relationships either, and it's the same with farangs on here, most of us are fortunate to have had a higher standard of education, higher standard of living , and for the most part, have never endured poverty. Most have come to Thailand with comfortable finances, and have all the fancy gadgets needed to make their lives parallel what they left behind too.

To ridicule those less fortunate than yourselves is very ignorant indeed, perhaps walking a mile in their shoes would make you feel a little bit more humble, and appreciate that you have a luxury that many of these rural folks don't. Making comments abut being poor but having smart phones, is pretty poor, you do realise that many of these phones are Chinese knock offs you can buy in the weekly markets for a few thousand Baht? Many Issan families can only dream about having many luxuries we take for granted, I'm sure there's some posters here who've at one stage in their life hit rock bottom and it wasn't a nice feeling, but the greater majority didn't settle in Thailand without good solid finances behind them, and that's awesome, but you should never look down on those less fortunate than yourself.

I love the village life, it's better than the rat race of the city of Edinburgh where I lived before, I have a very good, well paying job, and without that I'd never have been able to see the good and the bad in Thailand, I would never dream of looking down on anyone less fortunate than myself, I had a reasonable lifestyle back in the UK, but I have a much more fulfilling one right now, right in among st these very warm and very generous villagers.

Don't be too quick to judge these people guys, and if they're set in their ways, it's very hard to change that.. so why bother? If they've milled their rice a particular way for generations, they don't take too kindly to be told their "doing it wrong" it worked for them long enough

Vote buying takes more forms that simply handing out cash at election time, the Rice Scheme was vote buying (and golden opportunity for graft) that has cost the country nearly 1 trillion Baht.

[Fat Haggis]

I agree to a point there Alex, but isn't "we'll cut income tax by 1%" if you vote for us not classed as vote buying as well?

Vote buying/vote manipulation would pretty much be the same thing then?

Hyperdimension, as I said, regions in Scotland voted labour for decades, probably closer to 100 years, as they felt more "connected" to that party, it's very possible that the Thai's in Issan feel the same.

It's up to the other candidates to do the convincing that their ideology is better than their current one.

[somo]

Why do they keep their faith in Thaksin? He doesn't make their lives any better by a long shot, but it's more down to the simple fact that they don't like the alternatives.. It's like Regions in the Central Belt in Scotland have been Labour through and through, and it's been family tradition and the Trade Unions kept the fires stokes against all the other parties, it's no different in Issan, the locals all said they didn't like Thaksin as he stole from Buddha but it didn't stop them from voting foe him.

Should people keep voting for the same person or party in such a blind manner? Would it be better if they informed themselves before making a decision, including finding out what each party promises to offer if elected, and whether those parties can be trusted to deliver those promises?

Of course, if that's what they want to do. Most voters worlwide do the same. In the US most voters are committed to one party for life. Same in the UK so why not here.

Of course it would be better if people were better informed but that is down to the politicians to get their message over not down to the voters.

No political party anywhere can be trusted to deliver on promises so why shoud here be any different.

[socksy01]

Redshirts in Isaan keep faith with benefactor Thaksin

Its no wonder why these people have such labels put on them. I guess one has to assume these people are truly that stupid.

Not to mention brainwashed