Waste water garden

[Showbags]

Thinking to build one for a toilet and septic just installed at our shed.

Bit of an effort to do it but.....

Wondering to use a cement construction, or earthern and use a waterproof barrier for it.

Anyone know how much that geo membrane stuff costs ?

[eyecatcher]

Are you talking about a pond liner that come in 4m widths.

I try to follow the plan but don't see what you want to achieve....planted container or a pond.

Maybe a small explanation and we can help with some ideas.

[bankruatsteve]

I don't think that will work. Why not just let the grey water drain without all the other stuff.

[Showbags]

They do work...if constructed and operated correctly, maintained a little effort etc to simply monitor levels and such.

It is basically a sealed pond of various sizes, depending on the size of your septic system and the numbers of people using it.

To seal it, you can do it 2 ways...a concrete pond type structure....or an earthen pond with higher banks and line it with the geo thermal stuff....I am not talking about the black plastic liners, although they can be used...I would prefer the stronger material to reduce risk of holes and leaking....

The septic tank does its job as it is supposed to...the overflow goes into this pond below surface level......the material in the pond is small stones only, no dirt to clog the system and this then works similar to a hydroponics system...nutrient rich water (overflow from septic) is released into the substructure and filters throughout the entire pond...the plants take up all the nutrients and at the other end of the pond there is an outflow into a control tank, small, and this is the tank monitored for levels and cleanliness of the water......that control tank is then released into your gardens, or vege/fruit plants etc.....and it is very clean and all natural and very easily maintained.....i think/hope.

[eyecatcher]

I don't want to complicate matters or appear stupid.

I think the terminology used for materials if different. You are not English, I am.

The membrane for the pond would be a geo textile which if a semi permeable membrane used in french drains. These are channels of stones wrapped in the geo tex.

The waste going into the stone bed via perforated plastic drain filters through the stone and eventually filters through the membrane as clean.

Isn't that what you need?

[eyecatcher]

I don't want to complicate matters or appear stupid.

I think the terminology used for materials if different. You are not English, I am.

The membrane for the pond would be a geo textile which if a semi permeable membrane used in french drains. These are channels of stones wrapped in the geo tex.

The waste going into the stone bed via perforated plastic drain filters through the stone and eventually filters through the membrane as clean.

Isn't that what you need?

[JDGRUEN]

OP ... while what you want to do is not an Aquaponics system ... there are methods, materials and ideas used in such a system that might be helpful to you. Aquaponics is discussed on TVF and on the Web in general - many websites. Also there are many examples of pond building, aquaponics, septic tank systems, open pond septic systems, etc. on youtube... It is very helpful to view various examples. Just do some searches...

[Showbags]

I don't want to complicate matters or appear stupid.

I think the terminology used for materials if different. You are not English, I am.

The membrane for the pond would be a geo textile which if a semi permeable membrane used in french drains. These are channels of stones wrapped in the geo tex.

The waste going into the stone bed via perforated plastic drain filters through the stone and eventually filters through the membrane as clean.

Isn't that what you need?

I am English by the way....

Here is the material, not permeable

[Showbags]

Just wondering if anyone has bought/used this stuff and how much it costs ?

[Morakot]

Very interesting project!

What kind of gravel will you be using?

I recently built a French drain and had serious problem finding the right type of gravel. Everywhere you can get aggregate type of gravel for making concrete, but getting gravel for drainage (40/65 grain or something like this) proved difficult in Bangkok. I ended up using crushed "urbanite" slabs...

[Showbags]

^ not sure, was hoping gravel would be ok....but if not, we live near a river and could collect stones, just a lot of work to do that.....how big is the 40/65 grain actually...say in relation to 10 b coin ?

Also the french drain may be different to this for size requirements......I shall go check the website I have been researching, think they have the stone size there.

[Morakot]

^ not sure, was hoping gravel would be ok....but if not, we live near a river and could collect stones, just a lot of work to do that.....how big is the 40/65 grain actually...say in relation to 10 b coin ?

Also the french drain may be different to this for size requirements......I shall go check the website I have been researching, think they have the stone size there.

It's larger than a 10 bath coin... 40/65 refers to the two sieve sizes in mechanical screening.

You basically need something that is at least 20 mm in diameter. It's called "coarse gravel" in ISO terminology. See picture.

If you use a finer grain size, it will clog up the drain. Looking at your picture the gravel where you plant the reed or what not, should be "fine gravel" (I guess), but obliviously you need a drain connected to the outlet of the water garden unless you want to create a (mangrove) swamp.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Morakot

[Showbags]

Here is a pic of using gravel..

But yes, I will be using a larger size stone around the drain/outlet pipe and this I can collect from the river no problem.

Also plan to leave the gravel to be 'rained' on for a few weeks and let it drain out to see how it works before planting anything in it.

http://www.wastewatergardens.com/1en_overview06.html

Edited March 26, 2014 by Showbags

[Morakot]

I try to follow the plan but don't see what you want to achieve....planted container or a pond.

Maybe a small explanation and we can help with some ideas.

The OP wants to build a treatment pond.

[Showbags]

I don't want to complicate matters or appear stupid.

I think the terminology used for materials if different. You are not English, I am.

The membrane for the pond would be a geo textile which if a semi permeable membrane used in french drains. These are channels of stones wrapped in the geo tex.

The waste going into the stone bed via perforated plastic drain filters through the stone and eventually filters through the membrane as clean.

Isn't that what you need?

I am English by the way....

Here is the material, not permeable

Sorry...made a horrible mistake in this post.....I am not English....am Australian.

[Morakot]

Here is a pic of using gravel..

But yes, I will be using a larger size stone around the drain/outlet pipe and this I can collect from the river no problem.

Also plan to leave the gravel to be 'rained' on for a few weeks and let it drain out to see how it works before planting anything in it.

http://www.wastewatergardens.com/1en_overview06.html

Actually looking at this picture, that's definitely not "fine gravel"! Looking at the size of the digger that looks more like "coarse gravel" to me.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Morakot

[eyecatcher]

I don't want to complicate matters or appear stupid.

I think the terminology used for materials if different. You are not English, I am.

The membrane for the pond would be a geo textile which if a semi permeable membrane used in french drains. These are channels of stones wrapped in the geo tex.

The waste going into the stone bed via perforated plastic drain filters through the stone and eventually filters through the membrane as clean.

Isn't that what you need?

I am English by the way....

Here is the material, not permeable

Sorry...made a horrible mistake in this post.....I am not English....am Australian.

Haha you are one of those convicts we sent over then.

The fine gravel is called pea gravel smaller than a 1bt coin. The best for drainage.

You can get it here but more often seen in small 10kg bags at the plant markets..

[Showbags]

Yes, have both here, got a cube of each the other day for something else.

Small stuff as you say less than 1 baht size, even a satang.

Bigger stuff around 10b size.

l would have thought the larger size better, good flow and overall drainage....small stuff get clogged with organic matter as it breaks down.

[Showbags]

^^ .. by the way, quite proud of my great great great grandad and uncle stealing a pound of butter and a slab of pork and winning a 7 year holiday to Tassie

[Showbags]

This is where it will go......you can see close to pond and rice fields all around so wish to contain it, make it work and release clean water to the garden. Also has room to expand later for bigger house/system

[Morakot]

Cool!

Make sure you're not going too deep for the water garden so close to your pond. I'd be worried that the embankment might collapse. You might want to use (sunken) boulders for the edges similar to your other picture.

Are you planning to direct the outlet into your pond, with an excess drain out of the pond?

Edited March 26, 2014 by Morakot

[Showbags]

No, drainage from WWG into vegetable, fruit tree area.....will be a fine balancing act with elevation and drainage angles as due to rice land, all kinda low level.

may have to run a sub surface pipe so it drains out into the subsoil of the veg patch....which would mean making a deeper trench with stones in it also so it does not clog with dirt.

tis an experiment & work in progress......l usually just wing these kind of things.

they sometimes not work also....

[Morakot]

No, drainage from WWG into vegetable, fruit tree area.....will be a fine balancing act with elevation and drainage angles as due to rice land, all kinda low level.

may have to run a sub surface pipe so it drains out into the subsoil of the veg patch....which would mean making a deeper trench with stones in it also so it does not clog with dirt.

tis an experiment & work in progress......l usually just wing these kind of things.

they sometimes not work also....

Sounds about right! Would be nice to see how you get on with it, with some pictures as you build it.

[Showbags]

No, drainage from WWG into vegetable, fruit tree area.....will be a fine balancing act with elevation and drainage angles as due to rice land, all kinda low level.

may have to run a sub surface pipe so it drains out into the subsoil of the veg patch....which would mean making a deeper trench with stones in it also so it does not clog with dirt.

tis an experiment & work in progress......l usually just wing these kind of things.

they sometimes not work also....

I'll try my best.......depends on the cost for the geo membrane stuff though as to which way l go.

I dont think the guy working for me would do a great job leak proofing it if built from concrete.

Sounds about right! Would be nice to see how you get on with it, with some pictures as you build it.

[Crossy]

These wetlands definitely work, and if correctly sized and planted significantly clean up the effluent from a septic tank.

I'm just wondering why our OP is not looking at a conventional septic drain-field, assuming he's not on clay they work well and are maintenance free.

[Showbags]

These wetlands definitely work, and if correctly sized and planted significantly clean up the effluent from a septic tank.

I'm just wondering why our OP is not looking at a conventional septic drain-field, assuming he's not on clay they work well and are maintenance free.

If by conventional...you mean open and not enclosed and waterproof.....only because we have a pond very close, a klong very close and rice fields even closer....so want to be sure the exiting product is quite clean into all of these areas....also in the future around the house, which will be nearby and this WWG would be enlarged to cater for it then, I plane to build a much larger 'natural pond' with all the green filtration around the edges and this pond will hopefully be big enough and deep enough and clean enough to swim in and we will be able to keep a reasonable flow of bore water into it also hopefully with solar or wind powered pumps.....

So the idea is to keep the entire area clean from septic outflows.....mind you neighbours will then just shit on the boundary anyway.

[bankruatsteve]

What I had doubts about is that, to me, it seems like it would almost immediately become a muck pond no matter what size gravel is used. With just a drain and no circulation, well - I just don't think so. But, I hope you figure it out and make it work as it seems a 'green' way to do it. Cheers.

[Crossy]

This site (has a downloadable .pdf too) may be of interest http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ss566

This site has loads of septic information and clearances to water courses etc. http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Well_Septic_Distances.htm

[Morakot]

Septic drain-field v treatment pond

There are two key issues: Soil percolation and space. As already mentioned some type of soil don't permit a septic drain-field. The overall designated area is considerably larger for a septic drain-field and is restricted to a basic grass type ground cover. You can't use the land for anything, like building a tennis court, growing rice or plant trees. Treatment ponds are high maintenance but can add aesthetic value.

For a four people household this would be either a 12 m² treatment pond (75 cm deep), or a 1200 m² [?] drain-field.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Morakot