What has Thailand become?

[GOLDBUGGY]

I agree with you in the changes but it is like that all over the world.

Look at your own country and the changes over 20 years. Went back to my home town after 10 years and I couldn't believe the changes. Growing up back home we never locked our car doors or our house, and never had any problem. Today you would not even think of not doing this.

I visited Thailand in the 90's and I have seen changes like you. I was also in Gdansk Poland right after Communism was crushed and lived their for awhile. I came back and lived there again some 10 years later, and you wouldn't believe how much has changed. Which even though their is more economical wealth there today, I feel it is for the worst.

It is just the sign of the times everywhere.

[silent]

So where is Thailand heading to.....i would say that if you cant trust the police to uphold the law on a basic level.....the country is in fact.... lawless.

As the saying among Thais goes: "If you have a problem, don't go to the police. Why? Because they are the problem."

Basically all over the world, same as corruption. Just semantics and greed vs. infectious greed. .

Edited March 25, 2014 by silent

[benalibina]

Much better now. A few years ago some yahoos in yellow shirts closed the airport. I think the only people who have not seen positive differences between Thailand of a few years ago and now are those special interest groups who want to see Thailand fail. I would imagine they are funded by other countries who compete for tourism or foreign investment or some such stuff.

U sober ?

If you disagree with me say why. If you want to flame me by implying I am drunk see the Revised forum rules/guidelines for Thaivisa Forum

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming.

9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

My apologies if it offended you.

Your statement about special, foreignfunded, interestgroups who want to see Thailand fail is ridiculous. I can even think, because many people who critisize aspects of thai society are in your eyes ... thaibashers, that it was a different way of saying it. If you however are serious about your statement, please give us some proof or examples. Be interested to read it.

Again...my apologies.

[Daniel Boon]

well I can't comment about Thailand, but the rot in the USA and Australia has well and truly set in

[thailiketoo]

well I can't comment about Thailand, but the rot in the USA and Australia has well and truly set in

Why would you comment about USA and Australia on a Thai forum? That would be off topic I think.

No offense. Just move your comment to the USA or Australian forum.

[i claudius]

From what i can remember of Thailand 20 odd years ago to now are pretty much the same as i remember of Britain when i was a lad and now ,then nobody had much ,especially as there was not much to have ,but as we get more money and credit and there are more"things" that we are told we "must have" then we change ,i am afraid sometimes ,not for the better.

[techboy]

You are more or less saying that Thailand is changing in a negative way. Yes and no. From examples that you cite you are highly influenced by articles from this forum (which are frequently selected to provoke) as a frame of reference. (Yes it has been noted that Thaivisa does not write the news stories that they publish- but they certainly use their own instigative slant on the headers). You have not mentioned anything about how your Thai friends and acquaintances have changed nor referred to your general interactions with people in this society. This omission leaves your quest for an answer about what Thailand has "become" rather shallow. Personally I believe that there is a lot of confusion here as Thais try to sort their heads out in a culture that has now been mixed so heavily with the West. Overall I find that Thais are still very Thai- and that is meant as a positive.

[transam]

Much better now. A few years ago some yahoos in yellow shirts closed the airport. I think the only people who have not seen positive differences between Thailand of a few years ago and now are those special interest groups who want to see Thailand fail. I would imagine they are funded by other countries who compete for tourism or foreign investment or some such stuff.

U sober ?

If you disagree with me say why. If you want to flame me by implying I am drunk see the

Revised forum rules/guidelines for Thaivisa Forum

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming.

9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

, read your post #23 before you start quoting rules.

[Old Croc]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

(Sent via a medium getting messages from the other side)

[joshstiles]

...foreigners love this place??? Are you sure it is 'love'? I believe most foreigners come here as an alternative to living in their own country....not that thailand is any better, but it is cheaper and of course there are those lovely thai girls....can't get enough. But LOVE? I don't think so. I have met too many foreigners that are here not because they love it, but rather because they hate their own country and decided to leave. Thailand was just one of the cheapest options.

[Daniel Boon]

'thailiketoo' ... we've had a bit of a run in before; you've challenged someone else (re formalin on food) and retracted ...

So just how is a comparative done?

Do you have *empirical data that supports any of the nonsense you espouse?

*[ research methodologies containing qualitative and quantitative data? ]

In one forum you defend Thailand and here you condemn me for making a comparative to other countries and someone else provided a link to the UK ... is is just that you are a Yank and can't stand seeing anyone point out one of the multitude of many wrongs with the US of A?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Daniel Boon

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

Who told you how I live my life without any kind of problems in Thailand?

[benalibina]

...foreigners love this place??? Are you sure it is 'love'? I believe most foreigners come here as an alternative to living in their own country....not that thailand is any better, but it is cheaper and of course there are those lovely thai girls....can't get enough. But LOVE? I don't think so. I have met too many foreigners that are here not because they love it, but rather because they hate their own country and decided to leave. Thailand was just one of the cheapest options.

You forgot....the temples....the food...the culture....the freedom....

[thailiketoo]

Much better now. A few years ago some yahoos in yellow shirts closed the airport. I think the only people who have not seen positive differences between Thailand of a few years ago and now are those special interest groups who want to see Thailand fail. I would imagine they are funded by other countries who compete for tourism or foreign investment or some such stuff.

U sober ?

If you disagree with me say why. If you want to flame me by implying I am drunk see the

Revised forum rules/guidelines for Thaivisa Forum

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming.

9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

, read your post #23 before you start quoting rules.

My post #23 was about the new budget tourists that are now flocking to Pattaya and Bangkok and replacing the Brits and Americans who used to be there. Thais used to think all tourists were rich now they can see that is not the case. I would imagine they feel sorry for new class of tourists.

I have met a number of Thais that comment on the condition of and lack of manners of the new low budget tour groups and the lack of sanitation displayed.

[thailiketoo]

My apologies if it offended you.

Your statement about special, foreignfunded, interestgroups who want to see Thailand fail is ridiculous. I can even think, because many people who critisize aspects of thai society are in your eyes ... thaibashers, that it was a different way of saying it. If you however are serious about your statement, please give us some proof or examples. Be interested to read it.

Again...my apologies.

Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from grassroots participant(s). It is intended to give the statements more credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass, a play on the word "grassroots".

Data mining expert Bing Liu (University of Illinois) estimated that one-third of all consumer reviews on the Internet are fake

According to an article in the Journal of Business Ethics, astroturfing threatens the legitimacy of genuine grassroots movements. The authors argued that astroturfing that is "purposefully designed to fulfill corporate agendas, manipulate public opinion and harm scientific research represents a serious lapse in ethical conduct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

[benalibina]

Much better now. A few years ago some yahoos in yellow shirts closed the airport. I think the only people who have not seen positive differences between Thailand of a few years ago and now are those special interest groups who want to see Thailand fail. I would imagine they are funded by other countries who compete for tourism or foreign investment or some such stuff.

U sober ?

If you disagree with me say why. If you want to flame me by implying I am drunk see theRevised forum rules/guidelines for Thaivisa Forum

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming.

9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

, read your post #23 before you start quoting rules.

My post #23 was about the new budget tourists that are now flocking to Pattaya and Bangkok and replacing the Brits and Americans who used to be there. Thais used to think all tourists were rich now they can see that is not the case. I would imagine they feel sorry for new class of tourists.

I have met a number of Thais that comment on the condition of and lack of manners of the new low budget tour groups and the lack of sanitation displayed.

Its funny though that u change the thread into a subject about low class foreigners visiting Pattaya.

Can you please reply to my earlier request to elaborate your ridiculous 1st post on this thread.

Kapom.

Thais used to think that all farang were rich and now they can see it is not the case........progress indeed.

[benalibina]

My apologies if it offended you.

Your statement about special, foreignfunded, interestgroups who want to see Thailand fail is ridiculous. I can even think, because many people who critisize aspects of thai society are in your eyes ... thaibashers, that it was a different way of saying it. If you however are serious about your statement, please give us some proof or examples. Be interested to read it.

Again...my apologies.

Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from grassroots participant(s). It is intended to give the statements more credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass, a play on the word "grassroots".

Data mining expert Bing Liu (University of Illinois) estimated that one-third of all consumer reviews on the Internet are fake

According to an article in the Journal of Business Ethics, astroturfing threatens the legitimacy of genuine grassroots movements. The authors argued that astroturfing that is "purposefully designed to fulfill corporate agendas, manipulate public opinion and harm scientific research represents a serious lapse in ethical conduct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Laos ?

[thailiketoo]

My post #23 was about the new budget tourists that are now flocking to Pattaya and Bangkok and replacing the Brits and Americans who used to be there. Thais used to think all tourists were rich now they can see that is not the case. I would imagine they feel sorry for new class of tourists.

I have met a number of Thais that comment on the condition of and lack of manners of the new low budget tour groups and the lack of sanitation displayed.

Its funny though that u change the thread into a subject about low class foreigners visiting Pattaya.

Can you please reply to my earlier request to elaborate your ridiculous 1st post on this thread.

Kapom.

Thais used to think that all farang were rich and now they can see it is not the case........progress indeed.

What Thailand has become (thread topic) has been changed by the influx of budget tourists. It is better now because the airport is not closed and tourists and import and export commodities can get in and out as opposed to how it was when the yellow shirts closed the airport (which I think most people would consider a terrorist act.)

Edited March 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Donnie Brasco]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

Keep your bag packed, Passport and plane ticket in your pocket, never leave the airport concourse, don't have a life. Yep I love Thailand!!!

JLCrab didn't say that, Sigurris.

And you know he didn't say that.

So, which one (or ones) of the nasty little existential traps he enumerated are you making the best of, then, eh ?

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[thailiketoo]

My apologies if it offended you.

Your statement about special, foreignfunded, interestgroups who want to see Thailand fail is ridiculous. I can even think, because many people who critisize aspects of thai society are in your eyes ... thaibashers, that it was a different way of saying it. If you however are serious about your statement, please give us some proof or examples. Be interested to read it.

Again...my apologies.

Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from grassroots participant(s). It is intended to give the statements more credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is a derivation of AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to look like natural grass, a play on the word "grassroots".

Data mining expert Bing Liu (University of Illinois) estimated that one-third of all consumer reviews on the Internet are fake

According to an article in the Journal of Business Ethics, astroturfing threatens the legitimacy of genuine grassroots movements. The authors argued that astroturfing that is "purposefully designed to fulfill corporate agendas, manipulate public opinion and harm scientific research represents a serious lapse in ethical conduct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Laos ?

Burma, Malaysia, Singapore I would think would benefit more from Thai negative publicity in the tourism and industrial sector and any Thai anti government groups.

Consider the topic of the thread. Who benefits from saying "Personal greed and corruption has reached a level were people do no longer even bother to vote and even religion has lost the respect and power it once had here."

The key is probably in the last phrase, "even religion has lost the respect and power it once had here."

Edited March 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[ExpatJ]

What has changed is the type of expat and tourist who stays in Thailand and their attitude. I think many farang who came here (including many on thai visa) thought that thailand was going to be a cheap , quaint third world-esque country and an easy place to pick up women. What they found instead is that:

a) they can only afford to buy alcohol in 7-11s or cheapest bars and spend their days raging about 10 baht differences in drink prices in bars and double pricing at national parks.

they have zero success in meeting /picking up non-bar thai girl type cuties and instead find themselves with rather unattractive aging thai bar ladies- its the getting rebuffed from the pretty non-working thai girls that burns the ego (and the resentment to all things thai builds)

c) they come here expecting third world but are shocked to find infrastructure newer and better than their own home towns back home (how come these 'backward thais ' have better facilities than us super smart farangs back home?? further burning the old ego).

d) they see the middle class and wealthy thais enjoying a better lifestyle and standard of living than their own lives back home (and again that burns - how can these backward thais and their ways be more successful than me!?).

Overtime it builds up and the end product is the grumpy old farang so common in thaivisa and thailand (we all know the type) who begins to hate thailand for all of the above reasons but tries to disguise it with a faux concern for democracy and corruption.

Edited March 25, 2014 by ExpatJ

[NoshowJones]

I think everything starts in the schools, after the students finish Mattayom 6, no one fails the final exams, I had some students in Mattayom 4 who handed me blank papers in the end of term exams, all boys I might add. A lot of them just did not want to be there, forced to do so by their parents to get them out of the house..

The students leave school having graduated when they should not have, they get some more education in colleges and the parents pay for them to graduate, then they are working in banks, offices etc and are not qualified for what they are supposed to do. That is why you have so much problems in shops, banks and offices.

But if us Farangs would only admit it, we are benefiting from this corruption in many ways, ie paying off the BiB for traffic offences, and that is just the start. So there is no point in us being so hypocritical about corruption here in Thailand.

[thailiketoo]

What has changed is the type of expat and tourist who stays in Thailand and their attitude. I think many farang who came here (including many on thai visa) thought that thailand was going to be a cheap , quaint third world-esque country and an easy place to pick up women. What they found instead is that:

a) they can only afford to buy alcohol in 7-11s or cheapest bars and spend their days raging about 10 baht differences in drink prices in bars and double pricing at national parks.

they have zero success in meeting /picking up non-bar thai girl type cuties and instead find themselves with rather unattractive aging thai bar ladies- its the getting rebuffed from the pretty non-working thai girls that burns the ego (and the resentment to all things thai builds)

c) they come here expecting third world but are shocked to find infrastructure newer and better than their own home towns back home (how come these 'backward thais ' have better facilities than us super smart farangs back home?? further burning the old ego).

d) they see the middle class and wealthy thais enjoying a better lifestyle and standard of living than their own lives back home (and again that burns - how can these backward thais and their ways be more successful than me!?).

Overtime it builds up and the end product is the grumpy old farang so common in thaivisa and thailand (we all know the type) who begins to hate thailand for all of the above reasons but tries to disguise it with a faux concern for democracy and corruption.

I hope you are correct. But there are a whole lot of people who post here who have never started a topic or asked a practical question or offered any indication they have ever been to Thailand except in their internet social media dreams.

[thailiketoo]

I think everything starts in the schools, after the students finish Mattayom 6, no one fails the final exams, I had some students in Mattayom 4 who handed me blank papers in the end of term exams, all boys I might add. A lot of them just did not want to be there, forced to do so by their parents to get them out of the house..

The students leave school having graduated when they should not have, they get some more education in colleges and the parents pay for them to graduate, then they are working in banks, offices etc and are not qualified for what they are supposed to do. That is why you have so much problems in shops, banks and offices.

But if us Farangs would only admit it, we are benefiting from this corruption in many ways, ie paying off the BiB for traffic offences, and that is just the start. So there is no point in us being so hypocritical about corruption here in Thailand.

Get real. How many go all the way to Mattayom 6? What percent? When I taught I had 4 or 5 every term that were repeating a grade and that was in a public school. The impact of the fake degrees is far less than you imagine. If you taught for a while you would realize this.

Edited March 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[laobali]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

So what is it that makes Thailand so attractive to you?

[JenniferSG]

I was in Thailand in 1985 when a reporter was killed during a coup attempt. It seemed there were monks injured then too, no? When I flew back and forth for work in the 80's it was common knowledge that you would bring bribes, usually in the form of goods of some sort, for the station manager so you wouldn't get bumped on full flights. Bribes were common in a lot of other transactions as well, but were called gifts. Is the idea that greed/corruption is present really new, or has the honeymoon period just worn off for you?

[ccarbaugh]

What has changed is the type of expat and tourist who stays in Thailand and their attitude. I think many farang who came here (including many on thai visa) thought that thailand was going to be a cheap , quaint third world-esque country and an easy place to pick up women. What they found instead is that:

a) they can only afford to buy alcohol in 7-11s or cheapest bars and spend their days raging about 10 baht differences in drink prices in bars and double pricing at national parks.

they have zero success in meeting /picking up non-bar thai girl type cuties and instead find themselves with rather unattractive aging thai bar ladies- its the getting rebuffed from the pretty non-working thai girls that burns the ego (and the resentment to all things thai builds)

c) they come here expecting third world but are shocked to find infrastructure newer and better than their own home towns back home (how come these 'backward thais ' have better facilities than us super smart farangs back home?? further burning the old ego).

d) they see the middle class and wealthy thais enjoying a better lifestyle and standard of living than their own lives back home (and again that burns - how can these backward thais and their ways be more successful than me!?).

Overtime it builds up and the end product is the grumpy old farang so common in thaivisa and thailand (we all know the type) who begins to hate thailand for all of the above reasons but tries to disguise it with a faux concern for democracy and corruption.

For me, MOSTLY B and D - only sometimes A and C.

[NCFC]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

I think there's a difference between the protests of 1992 and the earlier protests in the seventies when compared with the protests that have been going on since the millenium.

The earlier protests were more about the people (students/middle class) v the establishment. In many ways similar to traditional people's protests around the world. What we see these days are more about powerful factions taking their infighting to the streets and using mercenaries and proxies to do the fighting. Whereas before, they tended to do their fighting either behind closed doors or through factions in the army staging a coup.

Another big change is that the people have lost their ignorance. The English saying "Ignorance is bliss" is a very apt description of traditional Thailand where people knew of little beyond the village boundary. Now through social media and global communications the world has arrived in the middle of the village. It's the biblical Adam&Eve story. When people "Know too much" they lose their blissful ignorance.

The population may have more money and possessions than their grandparents could ever dream of but the price for this is the loss of innocence.

Edited March 25, 2014 by NCFC

[Showbags]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand is becoming what it deep down has always been.

A pathetic attempt at sounding perceptive. Typical deadwood expat blather. Find a space and then create it in your own image- And then have the cojones to speak as though you actually have knowledge about Thailand.

I do not know what perceptive is to want to sound like it...so there...

[geriatrickid]

The OP was 16 years too late in visiting Thailand. he missed the Thammasat University massacre and torture.

When my father visit Patong 25 years ago he left with the foul impression that Patong was a pedophile's dreamland because of the number of times he was propositioned on the beach and the number of "depraved" foreigners he saw. He never fails to remind me of it and thinks Thailand hasn't changed. When I was first in Bangkok in the 90's, I saw kids prostituting themselves in the Patpong area, and some rather depressing beggars. I have been back to Bangkok many times since then, and I don't see those scenes anymore. When I was first went to the Chiang Mai region in the 90's I saw child malnutrition and a boring city. When I went back a couple years ago, I saw well dressed, well fed kids. I saw infrastructure and schools. Thailand has moved up. Along with that progress have come the afflictions associated with prosperity.

Fortunately, in Hua Hin the riff raff are kept out so I am shielded from some of the negatives.