Myth of gay affluence debunked!

[Jingthing]

I knew this in my gut.

It's great to see this myth busted!

It's surprising to me this isn't reported more.

I think too many gay people buy into the stereotype.

Possibly because it's a "positive" stereotype, but a stereotype nonetheless, and one that is used by political opponents of gay civil rights as well.

But like most stereotypes, the myth of gay affluence is greatly exaggerated.

In reality, gay Americans face disproportionately greater economic challenges than their straight counterparts. A new report released by UCLA’s Williams Institute found that 29 percent of LGBT adults, approximately 2.4 million people, experienced food insecurity—a time when they did not have enough money to feed themselves or their family—in the past year. In contrast, 16 percent of Americans nationwide reported being food insecure in 2012. One in 5 gays and lesbians aged 18-44 received food stamps in the last year, compared with just over 1 in 4 same sex couples raising children. The LGBT community has made huge political strides over the past decade, but in economic matters they still lag far behind the rest of the country.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-gay-affluence/284570/

[keemapoot]

In the US, especially in places like WEHO, I do think it's often true, gays don't have the huge expenses of raising families, and the ones I have known are highly paid professionals. They live a good life.

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[Jingthing]

In the US, especially in places like WEHO, I do think it's often true, gays don't have the huge expenses of raising families, and the ones I have known are highly paid professionals. They live a good life.

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Places like that are NOT representative of the majority. The majority of gay people don't live in affluent gay ghettos. Probably the visibility of such ghettos contributes to this false stereotype.

Such kinds of affluence stereotypes can be loaded and even dangerous. While gay affluence is exaggerated, another minority group that "enjoys" the affluence stereotype is American Jews. In that case, the myth is more accurate. The thing is, such success attracts resentment and hostility. Like it's a bad thing to be a successful minority group. It shouldn't be.

In the case of gays, if the people think they're all successful, how does that help the majority who are struggling, even with severe poverty? They are ignored. Society thinks most gays are rich. That is not true and the social perception is not helpful.

So I am saying here, it's a great thing for a minority group to be very successful (even though that does attract unwelcome resentment) but it is not a great thing for the public perception to be very much off the mark of accuracy.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[marcusd]

Jinthing I agree with you and a lot of gay poverty still comes down to discrimination.

Look on TV and there are many undertones from,people who cannot or will not change

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[keemapoot]

I'm sure mt experience is not representative of all gays, but I haveknown so many succesful ones outside of WeHo too, in places like Denver, and London. I admire them in the same way I admire many Jews. Drop them into adverse situations and they often come out big winners.

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[Jingthing]

One can look at personal anecdotes or one can look at more objective statistics. My personal anecdotes match much better with the statistical conclusions in the article.

If you're talking about gay expats in Thailand, that's a special group of people because all are at least financially qualified based on Thai visa requirements. The retired ones are wealthy enough to retire. So not a "real" sample of a native setting.

I do think that in societies where gays are discriminated against (most?) in employment, there is a greater tendency for many to be more entrepreneurial. Being a business owner is a path to wealth for some, more so than just taking a job, so of course there are lots of fabulously wealthy gay entrepreneurs. Not to mention being lucky with real estate timing, which isn't really a specific gay thing of course.

But the point of the OP is about the overall situation, not denying that many gay people are indeed doing very, very well.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[tingtong]

"In contrast, 16 percent of Americans nationwide reported being food insecure in 2012. One in 5 gays and lesbians aged 18-44 received food stamps in the last year, compared with just over 1 in 4 same sex couples raising children."

should be fair to compare couples with couples?

so, the above result indicate that raising a child or more actually makes you money vs. being childless gay or lesbian?

i find this nonsense.

[Jingthing]

"In contrast, 16 percent of Americans nationwide reported being food insecure in 2012. One in 5 gays and lesbians aged 18-44 received food stamps in the last year, compared with just over 1 in 4 same sex couples raising children."

should be fair to compare couples with couples?

so, the above result indicate that raising a child or more actually makes you money vs. being childless gay or lesbian?

i find this nonsense.

The direct comparison was as follows specifically about food insecurity.

In reality, gay Americans face disproportionately greater economic challenges than their straight counterparts. A new report released by UCLA’s Williams Institute found that 29 percent of LGBT adults, approximately 2.4 million people, experienced food insecurity—a time when they did not have enough money to feed themselves or their family—in the past year. In contrast, 16 percent of Americans nationwide reported being food insecure in 2012. One in 5 gays and lesbians aged 18-44 received food stamps in the last year, compared with just over 1 in 4 same sex couples raising children. The LGBT community has made huge political strides over the past decade, but in economic matters they still lag far behind the rest of the country.

The other text came later.

On food insecurity:

LGBT adults -- 29 percent

ALL Americans -- 16 percent

ALL Americans includes gay Americans folded in but such a tiny minority that it doesn't really change the number much.

.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

It would be interesting to see what the definition of "food insecurity" was used. Was it just the subjective assertions of those in the study? The numbers for gay poverty in this study seem awfully high...twice the rate for straights? I'm sure the census department has good statistics on gay people's income...those would be interesting to compare to straights.

And maybe it's the lesbians that bring down the averages. Women supposedly earn less than men and they certainly don't dress very well in those baggy jeans and carpenter's shirts; so that's prima facia evidence they don't have much money for clothes.

[sustento]

I don't understand the 'gay affluence' thing. It's just another form of stereotyping.

[Jingthing]

I don't understand the 'gay affluence' thing. It's just another form of stereotyping.

Yes that's what it is. A "positive" stereotype that turns out to be a double edged sword.

I wish it were MORE true ... would be healthier for my bank account I reckon ...

[sustento]

I don't understand the 'gay affluence' thing. It's just another form of stereotyping.

Yes that's what it is. A "positive" stereotype that turns out to be a double edged sword.

I wish it were MORE true ... would be healthier for my bank account I reckon ...

It's not as if it's true. There are just as many poorly paid badly educated manual labourers who are gay as there are highly educated high earners. The sooner that the straight population realise that there's nothing special or different about us the sooner we'll stop getting the shitty end of the stick for being 'different'. We are not the 4400.

Edited March 27, 2014 by sustento

[Jingthing]

I don't understand the 'gay affluence' thing. It's just another form of stereotyping.

Yes that's what it is. A "positive" stereotype that turns out to be a double edged sword.

I wish it were MORE true ... would be healthier for my bank account I reckon ...

It's not as if it's true. There are just as many poorly paid badly educated manual labourers who are gay as there are highly educated high earners. The sooner that the straight population realise that there's nothing special or different about us the sooner we'll stop getting the shitty end of the stick for being 'different'. We are not the 4400.

Yeah, mon!

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

I don't understand the 'gay affluence' thing. It's just another form of stereotyping.

Yes that's what it is. A "positive" stereotype that turns out to be a double edged sword.

I wish it were MORE true ... would be healthier for my bank account I reckon ...

It's not as if it's true. There are just as many poorly paid badly educated manual labourers who are gay as there are highly educated high earners. The sooner that the straight population realise that there's nothing special or different about us the sooner we'll stop getting the shitty end of the stick for being 'different'. We are not the 4400.

Sweaty muscular manual laborers are hot...no reason for them to be poor really.

[Scott]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

I've never met any poor or hungry gays...do they really exist or are they just an urban legend? Maybe it's all just a plot to make gays like ordinary straights and not the fabulous people we are.

[sustento]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

I've never met any poor or hungry gays...do they really exist or are they just an urban legend? Maybe it's all just a plot to make gays like ordinary straights and not the fabulous people we are.

I've never met a gay Mongolian but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

I've never met any poor or hungry gays...do they really exist or are they just an urban legend? Maybe it's all just a plot to make gays like ordinary straights and not the fabulous people we are.

I've never met a gay Mongolian but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Are you sure...if a tree falls...

[Jingthing]

I've known many poor American gays. Hungry not so much in the sense of third world starving no. I was a broke arsed gay boy in my 20's myself. Then I sold out while they were still buying.

In other parts of the world I have also met many poor gays ...

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Edited March 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

I've known many poor American gays. Hungry not so much in the sense of third world starving no. I was a broke arsed gay boy in my 20's myself. Then I sold out while they were still buying.

In other parts of the world I have also met many poor gays ...

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The world certainly...America not so much. Most, if not all of the poor/hungry in America, gay or straight, have other issues.

[Jingthing]

Poverty and having other issues ... that's a chicken and egg can of worms. The point is that it's BS that all or even most gays are rich.

[Scott]

Until somebody does a controlled study, it's hard to say.

Does a 25 year old straight person with a University degree earn more/less than a 25 year old gay person?

Is the level of advancement for a straight and a gay equivalent on a large enough sample to be statistically significant?

Is there a salary differential between gay males/females?

Many of the poorer gays I have known were those that lived on the fringe of gay society -- rent boys and others, some of whom were probably not actually gay. They often were drug users or had major health issues (Hepatitis, HIV, etc.).

This study looks at the situation from the point of view of those receiving food assistance. It does not look at the length of time they received the assistance. Were they short term recipients or chronic recipients? It also looks at those with children, which is (I believe) a very small group overall.

There are a lot of variable when you look at this issue. With people who are not legally married, then it may not be considered a household and that can mean that one person maybe employed and relatively well off and the other is eligible for food stamps. (In some states, all those living in a household must qualify, but I don't believe this is the case in California).

So, I question the overall validity of the study in debunking the myth. It appears to be a good study, but narrow in scope and done at a time when there were economic problems in the US (the study is conducted by UCLA). Hopefully in time to come there will be a greater follow up on the issue of gays and poverty, as well as many aspects of employment.

[sustento]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

I've never met any poor or hungry gays...do they really exist or are they just an urban legend? Maybe it's all just a plot to make gays like ordinary straights and not the fabulous people we are.

I've never met a gay Mongolian but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Are you sure...if a tree falls...

Yes I'm really really sure. I've never met a Mongolian so the chances of having met a gay Mongolian (even a closeted one) are nil.

[Jingthing]

I met a son of a Nigerian prince on the internets once. Does that count?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I tend to disagree with some of these statistics, which are often pop stats and from less than credible sources. The comparisons have to be with similar groups/ages and education.

They need to look at the levels of education for gays as well. How many are University educated?

There are still a lot of gays who are in the closet and wish to remain that way.

I've never met any poor or hungry gays...do they really exist or are they just an urban legend? Maybe it's all just a plot to make gays like ordinary straights and not the fabulous people we are.

I've never met a gay Mongolian but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Are you sure...if a tree falls...

Yes I'm really really sure. I've never met a Mongolian so the chances of having met a gay Mongolian (even a closeted one) are nil.

Ever eat at a Mongolian BBQ place...maybe the owner or waiters were really Mongolian and not Chinese or Korean...just saying.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Poverty and having other issues ... that's a chicken and egg can of worms. The point is that it's BS that all or even most gays are rich.

I don't think anyone would argue with you on that. Almost by definition, all/most of any social or ethnic group are not rich. By the way, has anyone said that all/most gays are rich? I did make the assertion that I didn't think many were poor or suffered from food I security, however.

[Jingthing]

I would bet the house that "many" gays are poor. Yes this is from my personal experience of gay people I have known and know now, but I'm still that confident. I think people who don't know that might have limited experience living outside of affluence ghettos. Mass media is also pushing the rich gay meme. Maybe some people's very definition of "gay man" is an overblown guppie stereotype and if a person doesn't fit that, they really aren't gay. But that's just wrong.

As far as hard cold statistics, no, I don't know whether the average 40 year old gay single man is richer or poorer than the average 40 year old straight single man. Not sure that is really the point or so much matters. Suppose the average was 10 percent richer, so what?!? The point is so many people now RESENT gay people, think we are filthy rich "because we don't have children" blah blah blah, always jetting off to Ibiza (yes I've been once, what a mistake), and that is not really helpful and definitely not true. Also it's a source of SHAME to not wealthy gay people when they socialize with wealthy gay people, you're gay, why aren't you rich like me? Gays even use this crazy untrue stereotype to hurt other gays ...

Edited March 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

I would bet the house that "many" gays are poor. Yes this is from my personal experience of gay people I have known and know now, but I'm still that confident. I think people who don't know that might have limited experience living outside of affluence ghettos. Mass media is also pushing the rich gay meme. Maybe some people's very definition of "gay man" is an overblown guppie stereotype and if a person doesn't fit that, they really aren't gay. But that's just wrong.

As far as hard cold statistics, no, I don't know whether the average 40 year old gay single man is richer or poorer than the average 40 year old straight single man. Not sure that is really the point or so much matters. Suppose the average was 10 percent richer, so what?!? The point is so many people now RESENT gay people, think we are filthy rich "because we don't have children" blah blah blah, always jetting off to Ibiza (yes I've been once, what a mistake), and that is not really helpful and definitely not true. Also it's a source of SHAME to not wealthy gay people when they socialize with wealthy gay people, you're gay, why aren't you rich like me? Gays even use this crazy untrue stereotype to hurt other gays ...

I think the rich gay meme was prevelant in the past when many gays were still closeted. Over the past couple decades, as more gays have come out, people now see that gays are not just rich entertainers like Liberace or fashion designers like Halston and Saint Laurent, or music empresarios like David Geffen but also school teachers, plumbers, Catholic priests, bus drivers, barristas, whatever. And they know from their own experience that these occupations may make one working class or middle to upper-middle class but usually not rich. So I think the rich gay meme is fading away any any latent resentment with it.

And don't forget, some silly gays are doing their part to hasten the demise of the jetting off to Fire Island or London for the weekend because were unencumbered non-breeders meme by getting married and raising families. There is nothing more likely to bring down the average net worth of gay people than this apeing of straight culture in my opinion.

[Jingthing]

I look forward to your frittata!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yLJulFeAFyk

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Food insecurity. I have never seen a skinny homosexual unless he has HIV