POLL - Gay with Kids

[David48]

You may or may not know ... I've recently become a Father ... one of the most rewarding experiences I've had.

The miracle of kids humble me.

Combine this with the recent News Article about the Australian Gay couple having kids, with the intent of returning to Australia with them.

So, that got me thinking how a Gay person/couple think about this - having children?

It's possible ... difficult, but, in today's progressive world, definitely doable.

You can vote with more then one answer as sometimes, one answer is a square peg to a round hole.

It's a Private Poll and I'd like you to support it by voting ...

.

[thepool]

Being "gay" automatically excludes the normal process of conception.

A "gay" parent is an oxymoron and is not possible.

[Jingthing]

Being "gay" automatically excludes the normal process of conception.

A "gay" parent is an oxymoron and is not possible.

Gay men if fertile have seed.

Gay women if fertile have eggs.

Of course two men and two women can't conceive together via intercourse but there are plenty of other ways to have children, for those who desire them.

Having children is especially popular among lesbian women.

Gay parenting is most certainly possible.

Using the word normal is loaded when referring to gay people.

This forum is NOT the place to insult GLBT people and I find the gist of your post very insulting to gay people, and also wildly ignorant.

Of course just because gay parenting is of course possible and a growing trend, don't imagine that all or most gay people (especially men) will want to do that.

Having the same CHOICES as everyone else, similar to marriage equality, is quite a good thing though.

Legality of gay parenting is quite difficult in most of the world.

I think it was mentioned here before in Thailand as gay people can't form legal unions (or marriage) they CANNOT legally adopt a child together.

These kinds of anti-gay laws need to be changed in Thailand, and all over the world.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Leave the kids thing to boys and girls. Kids will have a mum, the most important thing in a young life, the dad just growls...........

[Jingthing]

Leave the kids thing to boys and girls. Kids will have a mum, the most important thing in a young life, the dad just growls...........

With lesbian couples, that's TWO moms.

Gays make great parents.

If that's just your opinion great, then if you turn gay don't have kids, but if you are suggesting that laws discriminating against gays being parents are good, I feel that is open support for unfair discrimination. Is that what you mean? So are you openly supporting legal discrimination against gay people or not? I hope that is not what you're saying. Because if so, if you are white would you go on a black people's forum and say you support discrimination against black people?

These issues are not a BIG JOKE to actual gay parents.

This isn't trivial.

Right now in Russia dictator Putin is threatening to pass laws to steal the children away from established gay families.

That's a human rights nightmare.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Leave the kids thing to boys and girls. Kids will have a mum, the most important thing in a young life, the dad just growls...........

With lesbian couples, that's TWO moms.

Gays make great parents.

If that's just your opinion great, then if you turn gay don't have kids, but if you are suggesting that laws discriminating against gays being parents are good, I feel that is open support for unfair discrimination. Is that what you mean? So are you openly supporting legal discrimination against gay people or not? I hope that is not what you're saying. Because if so, if you are white would you go on a black people's forum and say you support discrimination against black people?

These issues are not a BIG JOKE to actual gay parents.

This isn't trivial.

Right now in Russia dictator Putin is threatening to pass laws to steal the children away from established gay families.

That's a human rights nightmare.

Think you are twisting things a bit here. Don't give toss about Russia and their stuff. I try and look at reality, what would go on in my head as a kid.

I would want a mum, but I would, as a male, want to look up to my dad, I would want him to point the way, be like him, but also feel the warmth from my mum............Just my thoughts..............

[sustento]

I've been an 'uncle' for the past twenty years. 'Uncles' perform a useful function. They come and talk to me about things they're embarrassed to talk to their parents about or because they feel they're not being listened to. They know I have no dog in the fight and am willing to give my honest opinion whether they're going to like it or not.

[Jingthing]

In the vast majority of the world there ARE laws discriminating against gay parents. Not only about Russia. If you don't want to state whether you support those laws or not, that's your prerogative. Readers will be left to infer.

To pretend this issue isn't strongly tied to legal discrimination (globally) is totally naive and unrealistic.

It is very much about that.

It would be like asking Palestinians in Gaza, what hotels do you like in Tel Aviv? (They can't legally travel to Israel, get it?)

In the vast majority of the world, gay people who do choose to be parents face all kinds of legal challenges in doing that, in many cases, very severe ones.

As I said even here in Thailand it is not legally possible for two gay parents to have a child together under Thai law.

They find other ways, one parent of the couple is the legal parent, but that sadly leaves the child in a legally vulnerable position should something happen to the one legal parent. Just one example of the problems when equality under the law is not available. There are thousands.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

Being "gay" automatically excludes the normal process of conception.

A "gay" parent is an oxymoron and is not possible.

Tell that to Peaceblondie, gay man, former moderator of this parish and father to six children.

[sustento]

Just for once would it be possible to stay on topic and respond to the intent of the OP's post rather than veering off into your own agendas?

[Jingthing]

Just for once would it be possible to stay on topic and respond to the intent of the OP's post rather than veering off into your own agendas

The topic is the first poster to insult gay people saying we're not normal and then another suggesting parenting should only be for straight people?

You know, you might look in the mirror about what is your agenda.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[uptheos]

Being "gay" automatically excludes the normal process of conception.

A "gay" parent is an oxymoron and is not possible.

Tell that to Peaceblondie, gay man, former moderator of this parish and father to six children.

A really nice person and someone you could have a rational discussion with.

[ToddWeston]

Thank you David for posting, I'm very interested to see the results.

Congrats on being a new Dad.

It is a emotionally raw topic for myself and other half, we have 8 fantastic nieces and nephews and one is my personal favourite as we helped raise him in Canada for a few years when there were some family issues here in Thailand. I treat him as a son, I love them all equally, however in total he's spent almost 8 years with us and every summer since he was a teenager. His nickname is Shadow because he's everywhere I go

We went down a few paths to adopt, yes there are some country's it's legal and we also spent a fair amount of time and money looking at other options.

As our careers took more and more time, we realised we were getting up in years and finally closed the chapter, it was a deciding factor to locate here so we could be close to the kids.

Trans, I am married to a great guy and I know we would have made amasing parents, your point is valid and weighed heavily on us. I wanted my sister to be involved with the upbringing however her own children took presidence over our desire. As a family we discussed not having a Mum around and felt in our community it would be a challenge for our child at the time. We were both raised in a traditional home and really weren't prepared to handle that void in those days.

If I knew what I know now I probably wouldn't have been so cautious and I would have taken time off work to raise a family, I didn't, and now I try to be the best Uncle out there, it's hurts but that's life I suppose.

[sustento]

Just for once would it be possible to stay on topic and respond to the intent of the OP's post rather than veering off into your own agendas

The topic is the first poster to insult gay people saying we're not normal and then another suggesting parenting should only be for straight people?

You know, you might look in the mirror about what is your agenda.

My agenda is to talk to people that I disagree with. It might be possible to convince them that my point of view is valid. Shrieking at people you disagree with performs no useful purpose other than to shut off further communication and drive them away as we've seen many time before in the gay forum. That's why there are so few new topics started in here.

[robertthebruce]

Thank you David for posting, I'm very interested to see the results.

Congrats on being a new Dad.

It is a emotionally raw topic for myself and other half, we have 8 fantastic nieces and nephews and one is my personal favourite as we helped raise him in Canada for a few years when there were some family issues here in Thailand. I treat him as a son, I love them all equally, however in total he's spent almost 8 years with us and every summer since he was a teenager. His nickname is Shadow because he's everywhere I go

We went down a few paths to adopt, yes there are some country's it's legal and we also spent a fair amount of time and money looking at other options.

As our careers took more and more time, we realised we were getting up in years and finally closed the chapter, it was a deciding factor to locate here so we could be close to the kids.

Trans, I am married to a great guy and I know we would have made amasing parents, your point is valid and weighed heavily on us. I wanted my sister to be involved with the upbringing however her own children took presidence over our desire. As a family we discussed not having a Mum around and felt in our community it would be a challenge for our child at the time. We were both raised in a traditional home and really weren't prepared to handle that void in those days.

If I knew what I know now I probably wouldn't have been so cautious and I would have taken time off work to raise a family, I didn't, and now I try to be the best Uncle out there, it's hurts but that's life I suppose.

Thanks for sharing your story, i found it interesting , and i could relate to it..

All the best

[richard_smith237]

I believe there are far greater parenting issues at hand than the sexuality of the parents.

I would support any parent or guardian of an infant or child who can provide a warm and healthy upbringing.

If the parent or guardian of an infant or child is gay, single, conventional, whatever..... the important part is that they are providing love, affection, guidance and everything else good parenting offers.

I would have an issue with any unfit parent, sexual preference is not a measure of parenting fitness.

There are a number of reasons a parent maybe considered unfit, alcohol abuse, anger issues, poor behavioural skills... Gay parents may have all or some of these issues as may any conventional parent.

The greater issue here is acceptance of the general public towards gay parenting - sometimes society judges unfairly. For this reason alone I would suggest that the social environment is of greatest concern when parents who maybe considered unconventional are making their choice as there are potentially negative knock on effects when considering the Childs mental welfare.

IF people are missing this point, I'm referring to the likelihood that a a child of Gay Parents in New York is far likely to integrate healthily into his or her social environment than the child of Gay Parents in areas which may be considered less socially and culturally tolerant and accepting.

[robertthebruce]

I believe there are far greater parenting issues at hand than the sexuality of the parents.

I would support any parent or guardian of an infant or child who can provide a warm and healthy upbringing.

If the parent or guardian of an infant or child is gay, single, conventional, whatever..... the important part is that they are providing love, affection, guidance and everything else good parenting offers.

I would have an issue with any unfit parent, sexual preference is not a measure of parenting fitness.

There are a number of reasons a parent maybe considered unfit, alcohol abuse, anger issues, poor behavioural skills... Gay parents may have all or some of these issues as may any conventional parent.

The greater issue here is acceptance of the general public towards gay parenting - sometimes society judges unfairly. For this reason alone I would suggest that the social environment is of greatest concern when parents who maybe considered unconventional are making their choice as there are potentially negative knock on effects when considering the Childs mental welfare.

IF people are missing this point, I'm referring to the likelihood that a a child of Gay Parents in New York is far likely to integrate healthily into his or her social environment than the child of Gay Parents in areas which may be considered less socially and culturally tolerant and accepting.

Excellent posting...

[Jingthing]

...

IF people are missing this point, I'm referring to the likelihood that a a child of Gay Parents in New York is far likely to integrate healthily into his or her social environment than the child of Gay Parents in areas which may be considered less socially and culturally tolerant and accepting.

The problem with that attitude is that it is elitist. Cities like New York and San Francisco are increasingly becoming options only for the VERY wealthy. Following the "logic" of your POV, a working class lesbian couple in a small town Texas might be justifiably be considered unfit parents just because they live in a redneck region. Or at least it sounds that you are suggesting they should voluntarily choose to not have children due to external social discrimination outside their power to control. I think that is VERY unreasonable. Nobody would dare suggest a black couple in a white racist area shouldn't have children if they wish just because they are surrounded by bigots. That is not the way forward for a better society, that's the way backwards.

This relates to the other thread about pervasive social views that gays represent an economic elite. The trouble is most are not and all people should have the right to pursue their version of happiness in life even if not able to afford to live decently in an elite liberal region.

I agree there are such things as fit and unfit parents. In real life, for the most part people, all kinds of people, just have the kids, and then if they turn out to be unfit, hopefully society steps in. For gay parents who are using creative methods to become parents, they don't always have the freedom to just have the kids without societal judgement beforehand. For example, if they need to be approved to adopt, etc., either through more discriminatory screening or actual illegality.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

...

IF people are missing this point, I'm referring to the likelihood that a a child of Gay Parents in New York is far likely to integrate healthily into his or her social environment than the child of Gay Parents in areas which may be considered less socially and culturally tolerant and accepting.

The problem with that attitude is that it is elitist. Cities like New York and San Francisco are increasingly becoming options only for the VERY wealthy. Following the "logic" of your POV, a working class lesbian couple in a small town Texas might be justifiably be considered unfit parents just because they live in a redneck region. Or at least it sounds that you are suggesting they should voluntarily choose to not have children due to external social discrimination outside their power to control. I think that is VERY unreasonable.

This relates to the other thread about pervasive social views that gays represent an economic elite. The trouble is most are not and all people should have the right to pursue their version of happiness in life even if not able to afford to live decently in an elite liberal region.

The economics in the other report was in the USA where they don't have universal health, which I'm sure eats up a large portion of ones income and forces both gay and straight people into poverty and onto the stamps for food allowance. The myth certainly isn't debunked in my country as Gay couples are located usually in one of 4 major cities and earn a very decent living.

If a larger community is more accepting, that is a consideration to live there and find employment, there are still poor people living in large cities so to say the city doors are closed and its unaffordable is simply wrong. Again many of us have full equality in our home country and smaller community's would amase most on their acceptance. It is all about the child and I would have had no hesitation raising a child anywhere in Canada or the UK or even here.

[Jingthing]

I agree, if you want kids, gay or straight, have them wherever you live in whatever country. If you can. Not everyone can. In Uganda, I think a gay family with children is a non starter, and similar harsh conditions do now exist in large parts of the world. People don't apply special tests for straight people to have kids in most of the world (exceptions like China's policies, etc.) if they want them, so speaking as what I am, an "uppity" pro gay civil rights advocate for legal EQUALITY in all aspects of life, it doesn't seem fair that gay people should be screened out with different standards.

I think an argument that ALL potential parents should face screening and parental education would be something worth considering. So many people, and yes, mostly of course STRAIGHT, are having all kinds of babies and not being good parents. That's a social ill, gay or straight. It's not realistic though ... passions get hot and the children do happen.

Also note, for those lucky enough to enjoy full legal equality being a gay person or gay parent where they live, that's really great. But don't go there to suggest that experience reflects most of the world, because it doesn't and from the looks of it now, probably never will.

(Also to bring up personal fortunate legal status again and again and again on multiple threads really starts to smell as GLOATING and as a smug dig at those less fortunate through absolutely no fault of their own except accident of geographical birth.)

P.S. -- no I don't want kiddies myself, never did, never will, I don't even want a poodle! But I care about the civil rights and choices of those who DO wish this.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

JT ... may I ask you to break your vow of silence please and mention why you never desired or don't now to have kids?

I'm not taking the piss or having a go ... just curious why you don't have that drive?

Also, so that you know that I don't ask, without giving ... I never felt the urge to have a family till I was about 40ish ... then it was finding the right partner.

Everyone ... don't forget to vote!

[ToddWeston]

There is no gloating, it's simply a fact that many of us are extremely fortunate to either have been born in a country or emigrated to country's that are on the right side of history.

The reminder is so we don't forget, we, the fortunate, have had almost a decade to deal with civil union, marriage and adoption equality in some cases so discussing China, Russia or Uganda have little to do with our family unit and the decision to be childless or blessed.

[Jingthing]

We know already really we do ...

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[peridot]

The poll does not have any options for gay people who are parents, and have always been gay.

I had a child with my two best friends, a lesbian and another gay man, way back in 1981. We did it the old fashioned way, by having sex. We didn't know who the biological father was for a dozen years or so. That was never an issue to any of us, because we all loved her as our daughter. We did some research after our child was born, and wrote a book called Gay Parenting: A Complete Guide for Lesbians and Gay Men With Children. It was used in many university classes about sexuality or alternate lifestyles. We interviewed 500 gay parents from around the world. Most had their children in straight relationships. Our research then did not find any noticeable difference between children raised in straight or gay families. It is not necessary to have a father and a mother. In fact, a huge portion of children today have only one parent in their homes and their lives. One of my favorite finds was a ruling by a judge in a custody case, saying that if all children were wanted and cared for as much as the child with two lesbian mothers, his job as a family judge would be almost unnecessary.

Now my daughter is 33, and I have two wonderful grandchildren. She has also had three children as a surrogate for a gay couple, one of whom has HIV. She has a good relationship with the kids, and they call her "Mom", even though they are not biologically related to her. They even call me "Grandpa". My daughter felt that this was a way she could give back to the world and honor her own birth and parents.

Now in San Francisco it is estimated that over 25% of gay couples have children. This is not a small phenomenon, it is happening all over the world. We have realized that being gay does not prevent us from having a family. There are many children in need of a loving home, and many alternate ways to have a child besides one mother and one father.

A wanted child has a much better chance in this world than one born as an inconvenient by product of a sex act.

[David48]

^^ that's a great post ... thanks for the contribution.

I'm sure it opened a few eyes/minds ... I certainly enjoyed reading it ...

[Showbags]

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Just for once would it be possible to stay on topic and respond to the intent of the OP's post rather than veering off into your own agendas

The topic is the first poster to insult gay people saying we're not normal and then another suggesting parenting should only be for straight people?

You know, you might look in the mirror about what is your agenda.

Here we go again....take it to PM please...oh