Leaving Thailand for China, here is why

[crazydrummerpauly]

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself here ? No one cares.

totster

Bizarre comment. Carried through to its logical conclusion, there would be no social media of any kind.

[ggt]

Be careful where you step in China...they still have some issues with hygiene and being socially acceptable...

[arjunadawn]

I used to think like you- when I was a child first noting my penis. You are not smart, sophisticated, discriminating, nor "in your prime." You are a clown. Your testimonial gives evidence to the very reasons you object to the current state of Thailand for farang, and why not? You are objectionable.

You are a guest in this country, notwithstanding your topical sense of Self. I appreciate being able to read your post this morning; you make palpable a sense I have in these forums that there are some real pieces of S__t visiting this country. Go to China, go to H--L, just leave! You should have left long ago rather than pollute this country with your predation.

Edited March 31, 2014 by arjunadawn

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

I agree with most of this, however one reason Thailand is realistic is the Visa and the language. Much more difficult to get Visa's in China and it is much more difficult to find Chinese who speak English like they do in Thailand

I actually have a Chinese GF in USA and go to Thailand for mongering. She is ok with it as long as I am "safe and I don't bring anything home." I guess I have the best of both worlds.

Edited March 31, 2014 by PoodThaiMaiDai

[crazydrummerpauly]

With my academic hat on, i'd just like to say that if the applications for employment sent by the OP were as badly proof-read and full of linguistic errors as his post, i'm not surprised the job-offers didn't come flooding in.

[choochoo]

in the agogos girls fight over men. men are few and far between. Maybe you should go looking for issan prostitutes in nana plaza and not hi-so discos..................lol.

[thejcb]

My thoughts exactly. in short Thailand has been over fished, there is nothing left. Plus, now, the youngsters are coming here and treading on its coffin. Can't these morons find girls in their own countries. I agree the Chinese girls are so much better looking. The thais are generally fat now.

[Johnsy]

Many good points I would have to agree with, good luck with the move, I'm considering the same move myself although not for all the same reasons

[Lancelot]

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

Not at all, the forum is a great place to find information and discuss different topics. However, no one has asked or cares whether the OP is leaving Thailand or the reasons behind his decision.

totster

Don't say no one boss

I'm interested in why folks come and go in Thailand. That does not mean that I love or hate Thailand, I'm just curious why the massive move of Westerners to, and from, Asia.

Personally I would think China has more to offer an educated young westerner looking to make his or her place in the world. Learning Mandarin would also be more advantageous world wide as opposed to Thai.

Some of the posters on TV genuinely love the country (Thailand) and they are the lucky ones, to be so content. Others I suspect are unable to leave and just a tad jealous of those that decide to vote with their feet.

OK, my fire proof clothing is on; incinerate me for committing apostasy

[kannot]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in thailand

My Wife works flat out is how I prosper, +200k a month, however before I gave her the helping hand to realise what she could earn she was on 11-12k a month and I dont mean I started her up spending millions in "yet another noodle bar", the investment was more in time than money and long since the initial investment has been fully returned to me.

thank you for your (non) answer

what part dont you get?, "how do you prosper in Thailand"............get someone else to work for you, set them up and then sit back an relax.

[Scarpolo]

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

Not at all, the forum is a great place to find information and discuss different topics. However, no one has asked or cares whether the OP is leaving Thailand or the reasons behind his decision.

totster

Don't say no one boss

I'm interested in why folks come and go in Thailand. That does not mean that I love or hate Thailand, I'm just curious why the massive move of Westerners to, and from, Asia.

Personally I would think China has more to offer an educated young westerner looking to make his or her place in the world. Learning Mandarin would also be more advantageous world wide as opposed to Thai.

Some of the posters on TV genuinely love the country (Thailand) and they are the lucky ones, to be so content. Others I suspect are unable to leave and just a tad jealous of those that decide to vote with their feet.

OK, my fire proof clothing is on; incinerate me for committing apostasy

I dont see why people are so in love with thailand, unless it is the ability to live a certain lifestyle on 30,000 baht monthly.

I was unable to live the way I wanted to for less than 100,000 baht monthly, so I returned to florida where I can ride a bike without being killed or breathing in metals and pollution. and I can ride my scooter to the ocean and swim in it in 7 minutes door to door.

In thailand, I had a hard time accepting the heat without relief

I also was unable to find consistent high pH water in thailand which for me, is a must

give me the ocean and the ability to breathe clean air, and that is half the battle in life

Edited March 31, 2014 by Scarpolo

[natway09]

So, Off to greener pastures, Good luck to you.

Having worked in 6 countries in Asia (including China) 3 cities I found much more difficult to do business in China as belive me the hierarcy

wants their pound of flesh ,arguably more than here.

Suggest try to get a position from outside the country, as "locally employed" is exactly the same as your "starving english teacher" here

and accommodation is a lot less celubrious in most cases for more rent

C ya soon

[troller]

While you are making some good points in your post, get prepared that China wont be an easy call. I lived there for 4 years and moved to BKK this January. The quality of life, the level of acceptance of our Western culture is way better here than in China. Dont want to discourage you but in general, living in China is a true big challenge and needs a lot of patience and abdication from of the way you would normally leave your life. Chinese people simply cannot handle whites. Chinese girl (one things is they are hairy there and there...) have no clue of what relationships are about. in 99% of the cases, dating a Chinese girl will be a nightmare for you.

An honest and friendly advice, if you are desperate to leave Thailand, dont chose China for living. Go to Taiwan or HK, but not the mainland.

Yes, opportunities are great in China for business, although forget about doing your own business there. You can get a job at an international company, but thats it

Good luck, anyway

[AjarnMartin]

Mr Hammer

A reasoned and eloquent submission with which I tend to agree. You've caused me to review my current circumstances.

Godspeed with your journey and good luck in China or beyond.

[Tonawatchee]

I believe expats get the Thailand they want. I wanted to retire peaceably here away from the cities but not too far. I wanted to live quietly near the rice fields and befriend farming families like the ones I knew while I was stationed here during the vietnam war so many years ago.

I consider my self fortunate as I get to live in the Thailand I dreamed of.

[robertthebruce]

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

Not at all, the forum is a great place to find information and discuss different topics. However, no one has asked or cares whether the OP is leaving Thailand or the reasons behind his decision.

totster

Don't say no one boss

I'm interested in why folks come and go in Thailand. That does not mean that I love or hate Thailand, I'm just curious why the massive move of Westerners to, and from, Asia.

Personally I would think China has more to offer an educated young westerner looking to make his or her place in the world. Learning Mandarin would also be more advantageous world wide as opposed to Thai.

Some of the posters on TV genuinely love the country (Thailand) and they are the lucky ones, to be so content. Others I suspect are unable to leave and just a tad jealous of those that decide to vote with their feet.

OK, my fire proof clothing is on; incinerate me for committing apostasy

I dont see why people are so in love with thailand, unless it is the ability to live a certain lifestyle on 30,000 baht monthly.

I was unable to live the way I wanted to for less than 100,000 baht monthly, so I returned to florida where I can ride a bike without being killed or breathing in metals and pollution. and I can ride my scooter to the ocean and swim in it in 7 minutes door to door.

In thailand, I had a hard time accepting the heat without relief

I also was unable to find consistent high pH water in thailand which for me, is a must

give me the ocean and the ability to breathe clean air, and that is half the battle in life

I can relate to what you are saying, especially the part where you say, ''I can ride a bike without being killed"" , i really do miss cycling..

enjoy Florida, its beautiful..

[NanLaew]

....

As I posted on another thread, Indonesia also now offers a 25 year visa for expats who marry a local girl. That aint never going to happen here in Thailand.

Woohooo! Being guaranteed a whole 25 years of 'my Indo wife stole my house' drama. Sure as heck beats livin' da dream here in LOS.

PS. Don't need to be so radical and go to a whole other country, just bail from Phuket no?

[wolf5370]

Good post until the "or the weird looking halfbreeds" which is more than a little insulting to us with families here - and not too difficult why others are calling your views racist - half-breed indeed!

You say you are in you 30s (or allude to it - depending on your definition of "a few years older" than "twenty somethings") - Thailand was not a good choice for you to come and live - people do, I did, but usually with a job already and/or a Thai family. For 20/30 year olds without such, its a great place for a holiday (if you keep you eyes open and brain switched on) - or a place to settle down if you have an income and a family - but trying to stay on in holiday mode, and expecting to also land a job out of the blue, is doomed from the get-go without at least a decent external income.

Your ideas of Chins is interesting - I wonder if you chose Thailand based on your trips here - and felt the same way back then - nice people, beautiful girls, friendly, cheap, great nightlife - while you were in holiday mode with pockets jammed with traveller's cheques from you cushy job back home. Lots of people make that mistake - and like you seem to have - regret not planning or researching better before the jump. Lets hope you are not just repeating the same mistake.

Mind that door.

[Andyfez]

I have been in Thailand for the last 12 years. Worked in China for the last 5 year, but with regular trips back to Thailand (not for 'prostitute trips' in my case), I am looking forward to moving back to Thailand this July.

I have sworn to myself and my Thai wife that we will NEVER spend any long period in China again - just go there for business when needs must.

I am afraid I totally disagree with your description of both Thai and Chinese people.

I speak Thai, and I have learned to speak some Chinese over the last 5 years. Their cultures and manners are totally different. If you have experienced a tiny bit of racism in Thailand, get ready - you aint seen nothing to what it's like in China. After all this is the Middle Kingdom - between Heaven and Earth.

You say Chinese want to learn from us - that's not quite accurate. They want to learn enough from us to be able to take what we have. They see it as their right.

Just watch their driving methods and they way they push past you in the street. Their attitude is 'you go first - but after me'.

If you try holding a door open for a Chinese person they will not say thank you. They will look confused as they don't understand why you would do such a thing!

I agree there are more work opportunities in China, but I do not enjoy working in a sewer.

The shouting on telephones and to each other, the clearing throats and spitting in restaurants, the constant honking of horns..... All this can be avoided in the peaceful environment of Thailand. As for cost of living - if you think how Thailand has changed in the last ten years - compare how China has changed in the last three! China is a lot more expensive.

As for entertainment - not only girly entertainment....... Well I hope you like 'gambei' drinking with the local whisky, or enjoy KTV karaoke, cos there aint much else.

I'm out of here in July and I wish you luck.

[larsjohnsson]

I agree with a lot you write in the post. Good luck

Edited March 31, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[Berkshire]

I could mention other things which add to my decision such as the insane traffic, polution, lack of caring about common areas, for example, the fact that people in my soi drive Porsches but throw their trash on the street like a Mumbai slum. That you can't walk 100 meters without some horrible noise blaring at you or a commercial playing at full volume everywhere. That visa requirements are specifically made to keep people from staying (you get 3 months as a given in Taiwan and Hong Kong for example). That permanent residence here is all but impossible, where as there are fixed and firm rules for such things in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

I mean, these are minor annoyances, but I've been willing to accept them because I felt the price was worth it. I don't do so now. I don't think learning Mandarin will be easier, but I think the return on investment will be worth it compared to learning Thai in Thailand. After all, speaking Mandarin opens all kind of doors, where as speaking Thai doesn't really do much.

OP, I have to think you're trolling as anyone who has lived in China will know that almost all the things you listed are far worse than Thailand. In the event that you're serious I recommend you to go and live in mainland China for a month, not in a 5-star hotel but in the neighborhood that you think you'll be able to afford once you find a job. And do a bit of research before you go regarding pollution, traffic, ease of permanent residency, etc.

You can't compare mainland China to HK and Taiwan- both are far more developed and have a better quality of life.

The only real advantage China has is work opportunity. But the days of an easy dollar just because someone is a foreigner is long gone. There are countless foreigners living in China now with lots of qualifications, relevant industry work experience, and who can already speak fluent mandarin. What's a mid-30s guy who can't speak the language and has been out of work for a few years going to bring in terms of value?

Yes, the OP seems to fit the description perfectly of the overused saying "the grass is always greener...." I hold no ill will towards Mr. Hammer. At least he's not here whinging/whining endlessly, he's actually doing something about it. More power to him. But China? Many of the things he complains about will be worse in China. Driving habits? Pollution? Cost of living? Language/culture difference? Attitudes towards foreigners? Corruption? Censorship? I can go on and on, but hey, he'll see for himself.

It seems that the OP came to Thailand thinking that he can make it big here, but has been roundly beaten to a pulp. No shame in that. I've always believed that Thailand can be paradise for foreigners who came here with money, instead of trying to make money here. The deck is stacked against you...which is how it should be. Why should foreigners come to Thailand and have more opportunities than its own citizens? I don't know any place on the planet where that would be the case. I would discuss more about China having been there, but there seems to be many more folks who know more about it than I do. Mr. Crash, you seem to be one of those.

[bheard]

The OP makes many good points. Good luck in China, and I have to say, on average, beautiful women! (skin a little light coloured for me though . . .)

I'm coming this month back to Thailand for a six month teaching session, out beyond Yasothon.Li ving in a small town, I wonder if I'll be able to cope with the boredom? Not a lot of action in small towns in Thailand. But hey, that's true all over the world isn't it.

[FraBi]

I can understand that Thailand for sure is not up to all the expectations of a person living here...but maybe have a look at your own expectations first...and the ways Thai's look at many foreigners have to do to some extend also with the behaviour of those same foreigners...

I do live in China since 10 years and only a complete idiot would choose this country of any other country for the reasons you stated. And good luck to find out how interested and open the crowd is in China....seems you watch to much CCTV 9....

Tell what you said to any expat who lives here in China for some time and does not earn money with teaching English or knocking on other foreigners to give great investment tips- but instead have a regular job in China - and its the killer joke of the evening.

You will get free drinks all night and your mates will shit their pants listening to you - just keep the serious face when you share your thoughts....

[misterphil]

Mr Hammer

I have been following your posts for a couple of years now.

You are a smart and articulate guy.

I am now in the same boat as you.

Except I am in Phuket.

The quality/cost issue also looms large here. I am frankly gobsmacked at how they continue to get away with the ludicrous overpricing here in Phuket. Every high season I tell myself that next year the tourist won't come...but they kept showing up and getting fleeced.

My exit strategy however, is focussed on West Java. The Indonesian rupiah was devalued significantly last year by the government, the people are farang friendly, and they are muslim so there is no alcohol and thus none of the stag part dickhe_ads you refer to now proliferating Grunthep.

As I posted on another thread, Indonesia also now offers a 25 year visa for expats who marry a local girl. That aint never going to happen here in Thailand.

A work colleague of mine lives in Bali Indonesia, and has the Indonesian wife. He showed me photos of the house he rents and the cost of it. For the same house here in Pattaya it would cost double for what he pays.

[wolf5370]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in Thailand

He's not an exception - he is one of very many - I am halfway there at 17 years and two kids (no grandkids) but I'm not halfway through my 40s yet. I know, and he states he does to - many expats here similar to me. People that have done the research and planning and don't expect everything on a silver platter - its not easy, true, there is no help from authority and many pit falls, but it is workable and no country on Earth is a paradise - they all have pit falls and cons. I would suggest choosing a country that appeal to you AND then do the research - rather than grabbing a country that other people say are wonderful (based on a few short term trips!).

I would think there are far more pit falls in China than here simply because there are less people that have successfully already walked the path and survived - seems to me that all the expats of China I have met or heard from have either left after less than 5 years or have been there less than 2 or 3 and not yet left. Not a great pool to base things on IMO.

The Thais get confused with identifying other Thais from Chinese, Japanese or Koreans (unless they open their mouth or look typically touristy) - so I simply do not believe any farang that says they can. Sure some may look typical (stereotyped), but most just look East Asian (which makes sense as they all come from the same Mongol and Chinese ancestry - Genghis ruled the world's biggest single span empire ever - and the Chinese before that ruled pretty much everything East of India and North or Khmer (even in Khmer there they were married in to the Royalty and there was plenty of immigration) ). I see this all the time with my Korean friends, and Chinese and Japanese people I used to study here with - even a Filipino friend and another Filipino family are often thought of as Thai here!

[Cosmo88]

"Why China? Because it is the rising power and while the best wild west days are probably gone, there are still great opportunities there. What's more important is that chinese people are actually looking out, something that no thai has done in the last 30 years - and the chinese are actually very interested in what the rest of the world are doing, how we are living, what the world thinks of china etc. They want to learn from others, to work together. The white man is not seen merely as a despicable walking wallet to be fleeced in between <deleted>mongering activities. It's a huge county, massive differences in culture, nature and language. The opportunities there are endless. There are also jobs, there are business opportunities, possibilities to make things happen if you are a hardworking guy. Oh yeah, and their women are far more attractive than the isaan prostitutes or the weird looking halfbreeds adored by the Thai media."

----

Having lived in China for a long time, I would say that it would have been an interesting move 10 years ago, but I fear the OP may be a little late.

In the last two decades, China has been effectively ruined on all fronts by the greed and selfishness of its inhabitants. Today, it's even a challenge to find anywhere in the country to breathe reasonably clean air, and what goes into the food and drink is anyone's guess.

Regarding women, it's a matter of taste, although they are of course white skinned (if you like that) and better educated. But with time you will realize that the mainland Chinese (men) hate farang men more than the Thai do. Remarkably, they (even the younger generation!) have not forgotten how the Europeans humiliated China in the 1800s. It is a frighteningly solid nationalistic homogeneous society. Also, Chinese women are less interested in farang men nowadays, as there are far better local choices for them in the cities with the huge educated local middle class, as well as Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean expat men, who are all far higher ranked than farang. Of course, village girls are still interested in farang, not unlike in Thailand.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Cosmo88

[kovaltech]

It is fun to read this topic from the OP...

1 advice, the grass is always greener on the other side....

I had my rip offs in europe, by european...

I am here in Thailand not because its greener but because i love it to be here.

There is a lot of negative arguments, which are all "true", but there is at least the same amount off positive arguments which are "true" also.

All depends your point of view and your surroundings.

If you surround yourself with sh*t, then you will talk sh*t and will forget about the normal people.

Personaly, i don't wish the door hits you on the way out, i think the door did hit you already when you wanted to change Thailand...

Be carefull with the doors in China....

[belg]

the grass is always greener ...

in a few months or years, he will be back

with the tons of deleted words, i assume you overplay your cards, rude people are hardly intelligent, rather more narcisstic ...

Edited March 31, 2014 by belg

[davidst01]

It was an interesting topic to read but I feel OP might be lonely and perhaps has not fallen in love or found a quality women- perhaps as a result of living in tourist areas. Living up country is where the genuine real thais live. People smile and greet me here, cars drive slow, quality women. It sounds like your experiences of thailand are blinded by the bkk experience. When you grow older come back and live in northern thailand. You might change your mind. good luck

[samran]

Good luck with the move. Not quite sure why you are doing it though. From your complaints it seems you are going from the frying pan into the fire.

Fair play though, Bangkok isn't for everyone and certainly it is harder without a job - even from a sanity perspective. If I was you, I'd be heading to Dubai or something.