Reall confused about ASEAN

[james24]

Hi guys

There are alot of people talking about ASEAN "coming into effect" however ASEAN has been around since the early 90's.

What does this actually mean? And why is it such a big deal to the countries involved?

Can anyone recommend me some simple, low jargon reading to do about it

[i claudius]

I reckon it will mean nothing to Thailand as they will take no notice.

[james24]

Could the same not be said about its neighbours..?

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[simple1]

OP: A bit of background reading at links below re Asean Economic Community (AEC 2015). I understand Thailand is lagging in its readiness for AEC 2015...

http://ukproedits.com/get-ready-for-aec-2015-with-ukproedits/

http://www.asean.org/communities/asean-economic-community

[jphantom]

Thai elites want NO CHANGE!

ASEAN is for show.......

[BudRight]

Everyone in Thailand is confused about ASEAN. I doubt anything will be implemented.

[sirchai]

Well, ASEAN was discussed long before, similar to the EU. All "better" schools now became ASEAN learning schools, in addition with the title being a "World Class Standard School."

it was already postponed from January to December 2015, as Thailand found out that it wasn't ready yet. The euphoric ASEAN ideas had completely changed into most Thais now not wanting this community.

Reality is that most of the other nine nation's citizens will be interested to go to Thailand, as they won't need a visa anymore. Whole Filipino, Cambodian, Burmese, Laotian families/clans and people from other ASEAN member countires will bring a lot of more crime, as all are facing the same problems. No money.

All sorts of drugs will be cheaper, as too many people are selling them. How will that affect the Thai youth???

So it's predictable that prostitution, drug trade and related crimes will increase, more guns and violence will proof the country's Immigration, tourist police, correctional system, health care and other institutions.

People do get sick and who'll pay the bills for people without money? Etc...........

Would Thailand be able to "Google" facts/problems that occurred ( and still do) in much better developed countries, who're part of Europe now, they might rethink the idea.

20 months isn't really a long time, so I'm just wondering how many "illegals" will take Thai peoples' jobs, as there won't be a minimum wage anymore.

( Which had already started in many provinces)

As a matter of fact the past in Europe and especially in the wealthier countries had shown that an idea to create such an economy, differs when it comes to the practical part.

Police won't be able to see if they're Thai, or not, forged documents will also increase, while Thai peoples' smile will disappear.

Even teachers at my school, who were really euphoric about the idea two years ago, calmed down and wish it will never happen.

People in Thai villages don't even know what ASEAN means. Free trade sounds pretty funny to me when thinking about drug trade.

"Raise our flag, high sky high, embrace the pride in our heart, ASEAN we're bonded as one, looking out to the world. For peace our goal from the very start and prosperity to last. We dare to dream, we care to share, our Somtham Lao for ASEAN"

Edited April 3, 2014 by sirchai

[hgma]

Rural Laos hasn't got a clue what AEC implementation is all about.

Once in a while the loudspeakers announce.....debate (on their own0 and instruct, .......

peasent on buffulows and opportunists who roam the rural area in search for cheap traficking labour.

drug labs are springing up in villages along the NE borders with full militia protection, shipping or walking their contraband over the mekong taking a shortcut over a under staffed 3th Friendship bridge or just send human mules across the border in order to get the catchng headlines while in fact the big shipments stay out of the limelight.

Nightmare?

I wish it was.

[sirchai]

Rural Laos hasn't got a clue what AEC implementation is all about.

Once in a while the loudspeakers announce.....debate (on their own0 and instruct, .......

peasent on buffulows and opportunists who roam the rural area in search for cheap traficking labour.

drug labs are springing up in villages along the NE borders with full militia protection, shipping or walking their contraband over the mekong taking a shortcut over a under staffed 3th Friendship bridge or just send human mules across the border in order to get the catchng headlines while in fact the big shipments stay out of the limelight.

Nightmare?

I wish it was.

There're too many "green borders". Easy to drive a boat stuffed with a few 100 kg of anything,to Thailand, without anybody even noticing it.

Same goes for Cambodia and Myanmar. I know places in Prachuap Khiri Khan province, where you can just cross the border from Thailand to Myanmar without a problem. Well coming back with big Rucksack of I don't know what, would't be a problem.

Also very easy to get into Cambodia........

[belg]

asean is good for competition and bad for thailannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn (no liky)

[lostinisaan]

asean is good for competition and bad for thailannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn (no liky)

What sort of competition? The free trade of what?

[davidmann]

maybe people will come from China and work hard ,could be a big problem for thailand

[sirchai]

maybe people will come from China and work hard ,could be a big problem for thailand

...and take over the gold and pig business....what a nightmare.

Sounds good when reading it, but...............................

P.S. ASEAN was established 1967 in Bangkok.

http://www.asean.org/asean/about-asean/overview

AIMS AND PURPOSES

As set out in the ASEAN Declaration, the aims and purposes of ASEAN are:

1. To accelerate the economic growth, social progress and cultural development in the region through joint endeavours in the spirit of equality and partnership in order to strengthen the foundation for a prosperous and peaceful community of Southeast Asian Nations;
2. To promote regional peace and stability through abiding respect for justice and the rule of law in the relationship among countries of the region and adherence to the principles of the United Nations Charter;
3. To promote active collaboration and mutual assistance on matters of common interest in the economic, social, cultural, technical, scientific and administrative fields;
4. To provide assistance to each other in the form of training and research facilities in the educational, professional, technical and administrative spheres;
5. To collaborate more effectively for the greater utilisation of their agriculture and industries, the expansion of their trade, including the study of the problems of international commodity trade, the improvement of their transportation and communications facilities and the raising of the living standards of their peoples;
6. To promote Southeast Asian studies; and
7. To maintain close and beneficial cooperation with existing international and regional organisations with similar aims and purposes, and explore all avenues for even closer cooperation among themselves.

Edited April 3, 2014 by sirchai

[jimmybkk]

maybe people will come from China and work hard ,could be a big problem for thailand

China aren't part of ASEAN David...

[siamshepard]

If its anything like the European Union its spells trouble for Thailand. With Poorer countries ruining it for Thailand. Like all the poor eastern Europeans countries that joined the EU. I say NO to the Asean Union

Edited April 3, 2014 by siamshepard

[sirchai]

If its anything like the European Union its spells trouble for Thailand. With Poorer countries ruining it for Thailand. Like all the poor eastern Europeans countries that joined the EU. I say NO to the Asean Union

Not just the "poor eastern European countries. Look at Greece, they couldn't even tell how many government employees they've got.

And they retire in the age of 50, or before. Polish professors, teachers and other celebrities picked grapes on German vineyards before in their vacation.

Now Germans pay for their wine consumption and anything else. as well.

Edited April 3, 2014 by sirchai

[citizen33]

maybe people will come from China and work hard ,could be a big problem for thailand

China aren't part of ASEAN David...

True but one also needs to keep abreast of ASEAN+3.

http://aric.adb.org/initiative/association-of-southeast-asian-nations-plus-three-cooperation-on-energy-transport-and-information-communications-technology

[GiantFan]

AEC was meant to start 1 Jan. 2015, but Thailand wanted it delayed. ASEAN said only until 31 Dec. 2015. We already launch the PR campaign and can't move into 2016 or later. Huge loss of face. Sorry Thailand, the Malaysians and Singaporeans are coming. You will also lose your best employees to these countries where the pay is much higher and standard of living, better (yes, more expensive too).

The farmers were up in arms about their loss of garlic sales when the Chinese were allowed to ship in their veggies tax free. Just wait for AEC!

[sirchai]

AEC was meant to start 1 Jan. 2015, but Thailand wanted it delayed. ASEAN said only until 31 Dec. 2015. We already launch the PR campaign and can't move into 2016 or later. Huge loss of face. Sorry Thailand, the Malaysians and Singaporeans are coming. You will also lose your best employees to these countries where the pay is much higher and standard of living, better (yes, more expensive too).

The farmers were up in arms about their loss of garlic sales when the Chinese were allowed to ship in their veggies tax free. Just wait for AEC!

And Thailand will get foreign employees, most of them from piss poor countries, who work for a third or less. The Chinese already have all gold shops, plus the big pig and other business

I live in a garlic producing area, why would they not be able to sell their garlic? They only have to cut out those who actually make the money.

All in all a good lesson to learn for Thailand, its teachers, as that will also affect their schools, etc....no loss of face.

. .

[james24]

So why does ASEAN starting mean no minimum wage?

Also does that mean Thailand is supposed to abandon its only Thais for certain jobs ?

I don't understand why the hi/so's don't want it ... Why not , wouldn't it be good..?

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[jimmybkk]

maybe people will come from China and work hard ,could be a big problem for thailand

China aren't part of ASEAN David...

True but one also needs to keep abreast of ASEAN+3.

http://aric.adb.org/initiative/association-of-southeast-asian-nations-plus-three-cooperation-on-energy-transport-and-information-communications-technology

I only read the main article, didn't open any of the links, but I didn't see any mention of the +3 thing referring to allowing entry to workers from these 3 countries. And besides, I believe China is having it's own problems with finding unskilled labour. The one-child policy is having an effect not only from the obvious reduction in the size of the working-age population, but also because the families who adhered to the policy now have higher aspirations for their solitary offspring than seeing them become factory workers.

[sirchai]

So why does ASEAN starting mean no minimum wage?

Also does that mean Thailand is supposed to abandon its only Thais for certain jobs ?

I don't understand why the hi/so's don't want it ... Why not , wouldn't it be good..?

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Maybe because money rules? A good example was in Berlin/Germany. The new Bundestag in Berlin was mostly built by Polish and other nationality workers, being there illegally, while many German construction workers were jobless.

A research at Chula university Bangkok about a year ago showed that almost none of Thais want to work/live in the other nine ASEAN member countries, but it's much different to the people from the other ASEAN member countries.

It won't affect the hiso's...just the ordinary folks, as always..

[james24]

So why does ASEAN starting mean no minimum wage?

Also does that mean Thailand is supposed to abandon its only Thais for certain jobs ?

I don't understand why the hi/so's don't want it ... Why not , wouldn't it be good..?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe because money rules? A good example was in Berlin/Germany. The new Bundestag in Berlin was mostly built by Polish and other nationality workers, being there illegally, while many German construction workers were jobless.

A research at Chula university Bangkok about a year ago showed that almost none of Thais want to work/live in the other nine ASEAN member countries, but it's much different to the people from the other ASEAN member countries.

It won't affect the hiso's...just the ordinary folks, as always..

Interesting points.

But I still dont see why minimum wage will be abandoned?

Will Thailand still have a list of "only thai" jobs...?

Also whats this talk about drug factories being set up everywhere? Why would ASEAN affect that? Are these legal drug companies, if so that would help the "economy"...?

[Kf6vci]

Something in the official rhetoric has surprised me: confusion about national identity. No way will those member states ever be "one nation".

It will be bad news for the uneducated masses in Thailand, that much is clear. And also who will benefit from millions willing to work for less than 9,000 B a month!

As Sirchai said, look at Europe. Look at Balkan states joining the EU with subsequent asylum seekers flooding the system and the wealfare systems getting stretched to the limit etc. etc. Bottom line: it's not working!

Take schools. You think Thai schools like to hire foreign teachers?!?

[sirchai]

So why does ASEAN starting mean no minimum wage?

Also does that mean Thailand is supposed to abandon its only Thais for certain jobs ?

I don't understand why the hi/so's don't want it ... Why not , wouldn't it be good..?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe because money rules? A good example was in Berlin/Germany. The new Bundestag in Berlin was mostly built by Polish and other nationality workers, being there illegally, while many German construction workers were jobless.

A research at Chula university Bangkok about a year ago showed that almost none of Thais want to work/live in the other nine ASEAN member countries, but it's much different to the people from the other ASEAN member countries.

It won't affect the hiso's...just the ordinary folks, as always..

Interesting points.

But I still dont see why minimum wage will be abandoned?

Will Thailand still have a list of "only thai" jobs...?

Also whats this talk about drug factories being set up everywhere? Why would ASEAN affect that? Are these legal drug companies, if so that would help the "economy"...?

Poor farmers and unskilled labourers would feel a negative impact and no benefits from the 2015 launch of the Asean Economic Community (AEC), a forum of non-governmental organisations said yesterday.

Thailand was set to open its borders to almost all farming products from Asean members, meaning its major products such as rice would no longer be competitive, said Witoon Lianchamroon, director of BioThai.

Thailand's cassava production also was badly placed, with a yield of 2 tonnes per rai against Cambodia's 5 tonnes, said Witoon, adding that Thai farmers were facing difficulty in competing with the lower-cost produce from otherAsean countries.

Thailand's unskilled labourers would also face difficulty as cross-regional movement of their counterparts from otherAsean members increased over the next three years, said Pranom Somwong of Asean Watch.

Asean members have agreed to allow skilled workers - doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers, architects, accountants and surveyors - free movement by 2015.

The group, however, has no agreement for movement of the huge number of unskilled workers in the region, she said.

The minimum wage might still exist, but only on paper. If you think that those "unskilled workers" will not come to Thailand and work for a third, or less, you might be wrong.

All the factories, let's take the computer hard ware producing ones alone can easily use unskilled labor from any other countries and Thai will find it difficult to get a job.

think it will be pretty similar to Europe. Those people from any ASEAN member countries with a better (even a fake) degree will get the job.

Even having the minimum wage now, there're so many people who only make 3- 5 K a month. People who make business usually don't care about any laws, or rules. Their goal is to make money. The topic itself is so difficult to understand, especially for those who'll be effected by ASEAN soon.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/AEC-bad-for-Thai-farmers-workers-NGOs-30183014.html

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6796&a=3

http://humanrightsinasean.info/asean-committee-migrant-workers/about.html

2012_MigrantWorkersRightsToSocialProtectionInASEAN_Hall.doc

[james24]

Why would thai rice production be affected ? Surely if more Asian people are moving to Thailand that means more rice is eaten..?

This may sound unread but does ASEAN mean no import taxes between countries ..? If not then Thai farmers would surely make more money rather than less...?

Also the unskilled labour side of things, why would they not employ Thais ? Money? But the Burmese / rural Thais are doing that now anyway..surely they would stick with people who can speak their language and aren't old enemies...?

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Edited April 3, 2014 by james24

[sirchai]

Why would thai rice production be affected ? Surely if more Asian people are moving to Thailand that means more rice is eaten..?

This may sound unread but does ASEAN mean no import taxes between countries ..? If not then Thai farmers would surely make more money rather than less...?

Also the unskilled labour side of things, why would they not employ Thais ? Money? But the Burmese / rural Thais are doing that now anyway..surely they would stick with people who can speak their language and aren't old enemies...?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would thai rice production be affected ? Surely if more Asian people are moving to Thailand that means more rice is eaten..?

Because Thai rice farmers were always ripped off by people. Farmers get 10 baht, while you pay 40 when you buy a kilo? Once ASEAN pops in people can also buy Vietnamese rice, etc..

This may sound unread but does ASEAN mean no import taxes between countries ..? If not then Thai farmers would surely make more money rather than less...?

If there’re no import taxes, the farmers would be the last who would know that. It will only make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Most rice farmers, like my father in law only have one harvest. Most of them are already starving now.

Also the unskilled labour side of things, why would they not employ Thais ? Money? But the Burmese / rural Thais are doing that now anyway..surely they would stick with people who can speak their language and aren't old enemies...?

Why they would not employ Thais? Because they’re asking for a minimum wage, while the illegals do that job for a third or so. The fact that they don’t have work permits, but need money to support their families makes it strange. Money does weird things to people.

If a company is seeking factory workers to put some parts together, a foreman who can speak that language will be enough. More and more Thais will be jobless.

[jcisco]

Well, ASEAN was discussed long before, similar to the EU. All "better" schools now became ASEAN learning schools, in addition with the title being a "World Class Standard School."

it was already postponed from January to December 2015, as Thailand found out that it wasn't ready yet. The euphoric ASEAN ideas had completely changed into most Thais now not wanting this community.

Reality is that most of the other nine nation's citizens will be interested to go to Thailand, as they won't need a visa anymore. Whole Filipino, Cambodian, Burmese, Laotian families/clans and people from other ASEAN member countires will bring a lot of more crime, as all are facing the same problems. No money.

All sorts of drugs will be cheaper, as too many people are selling them. How will that affect the Thai youth???

So it's predictable that prostitution, drug trade and related crimes will increase, more guns and violence will proof the country's Immigration, tourist police, correctional system, health care and other institutions.

People do get sick and who'll pay the bills for people without money? Etc...........

Would Thailand be able to "Google" facts/problems that occurred ( and still do) in much better developed countries, who're part of Europe now, they might rethink the idea.

20 months isn't really a long time, so I'm just wondering how many "illegals" will take Thai peoples' jobs, as there won't be a minimum wage anymore.

( Which had already started in many provinces)

As a matter of fact the past in Europe and especially in the wealthier countries had shown that an idea to create such an economy, differs when it comes to the practical part.

Police won't be able to see if they're Thai, or not, forged documents will also increase, while Thai peoples' smile will disappear.

Even teachers at my school, who were really euphoric about the idea two years ago, calmed down and wish it will never happen.

People in Thai villages don't even know what ASEAN means. Free trade sounds pretty funny to me when thinking about drug trade.

"Raise our flag, high sky high, embrace the pride in our heart, ASEAN we're bonded as one, looking out to the world. For peace our goal from the very start and prosperity to last. We dare to dream, we care to share, our Somtham Lao for ASEAN"

OK I am quoting your entire post for it is almost entirely opinon and factually misleading to at best incorrect.

You state that no VISA will be required for member state ciztizens for movement between countries. And suggest that one may change their nation of residency by simply moving.

Catagorically wrong. The aec mandates skilled labor force mobility not citizen residency mobility.

Implementation of the MNP framework is only for business uses, and then only for a temporary visa. No where in the Movement of Natural Persons acts that are required for implementation for inclusion in AEC 2015 provide the mobility you have suggested.

The mobility is for skilled labor, businessmen, professionals and only for temporary residency or visit in a country. Unless thailand somehow allows it to happen under their MNP implementation what you suggest is wrong wrong wrong.

As for foreigners working in Thailand there is already I think 800,000 work permit carrying Burmese working in thailand and around another one million who aren't documented. They are primarily in low skilled, no skilled or skilled roles, and are probably the largest foreign labor force by nationality in thailand.

Are you suggesting an integrated one stop centre for work permit documentation and visa issuement as required to facilitate AEC 2015 will be negative to thailand, in all the talk of drugs and crime that you spewed forth will be the result. And give me something better than your opinion, cause crime is already quite high in Thailand so there must be plenty of data for you to construct an argument from.

And so you know, thailand is not under any obligation to honor or recognize the educational certificates or documentation from other member countries. And Thailand is still able to restrict through its AEC processes protection of its ciziten labor force.

AEC 2015 as far as immigration goes, is about skilled labor workforce mobility and streamlining. Not about a single European Union like region, where you are free to move and do what you will where you want.

stop spreading rubbish. At bothers me substantially that you mention you are involved with a school, in any way. Considering the lack of ability to either determine facts by research or by simply accepting what you hear, read and think as fact.

Now if you would like to know where you can read up about the various provisions I can point you in the right direction. If you are thai and want thai language resources, let me know and i'll get them for you.

thanks.

[justjoined]

The AEC opens Thailand to skilled workers, which is a threat to locally educated Thais, as the country's education system ranks low against other ASEAN members. English is really bad and there are fears that Thai workers will be overlooked by more competent people from other countries.

Talk about drugs and crime is just scaremongering.

[worgeordie]

Well according to channel 3,Thailand IS the capital of ASEAN,

It will all be OK if they play by Thailand's rules,which simply means

do whatever you want,and as soon as Thailand is disadvantaged in

any way ,they will want to leave.

regards Worgeordie