Jatuporn: UDD's rally on April 5-6 just a "final exercise before the big war"

[tingtongteesood]

I'm sure the majority of Thais think the same. It's time to silence him and similar ilk for good. For heaven's sake. I've never seen in any country in the world, people calling and cherishing the opportunity to start a civil war without consequences. I'm actually surprised that any westerner is defending their actions. It's not only rhetoric, consider the number of poorly educated people in their audience who actually take their words literally. Burning Bangkok in 2010 is the best example. If they are allowed to continue with their warmongering, the consequences could be grave for all of us who chose Thailand as our home.

It is Thaksin's way. He has so much blood on his hands already that a little more really makes no difference to him any more. I hope soon he will see his day in court for crimes against the country and its people. The entire caretaker government too are sanctioning these violent psychopath's actions by not condemning them. Everyone in PT / UDD seems to want violence now because they know they can't win any other way, they have been out thought and out classed at every turn and out of their depth in the political games. If there is violence then they can blame that for anything else that happens. I hope the army will keep the city safe. If the red terrorists bring violence with them as they did in 2010 then any resulting deaths are on therm, don't blame the army for defending against terrorists, that's their job.

[janpaulsen]

Seem that a simple election will stop all these madness. However we have one side insisting and persisting with undemocratic power grap with help of the judiciary. If you keep ousting a democratically elected government by means of a putsch thrice in just 9 years, you got very angry people whose freedom of choice has been trampled again and again.

Seems like some of you guys does not understand that "elections" are just a part and a start of a democracy. You can not only win an election and behave just like you want, - there are lots of constitutional laws that you have to abide by. And if you seriously breach these, the courts has to rule on behalf of the rule of law. That is why a country has a constitution and courts. Is that so difficult to understand ??

[tingtongteesood]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

The pro-Suthep farang are in fact and reality contemporary fascists who want to retain as much of the quaint and charming feudal order of the post-war period as possible. They don't want girls from Issan out of their bar slave roles in Bangkok nor do they want any more of the modern world in Thailand than they are compelled by reality to accept. Developments of the past 14-15 years are directly relevant to these fahlang, personally, vitally, in their entirety. Their virulent lashing out against the changes modernization has imposed on the society testifies to the vested interests of these farang in their own private yet passé quaint and charming feudal Thailand. If they weren't so personally invested in multiple ways, they wouldn't be making such unrelenting and unrestrained personal attacks against those who threaten their own private Thailand.

The talk in recent years of republicanism is just that, a lot of empty talk. Keep In mind however that such talk mortifies these fahlang. The only two native English language countries that are republics are Ireland and the United States, neither of which are strongly represented among farang. Even the empty talk of republicanism here doesn't calm the hyper horrors of so many fahlang.

Very good post.

And they hate the 300 Baht minimum wage and tax rise on beer...

When the Reds occupied the streets in Bangkok, many Farangs cried foul on daily base.

Now with the Yellow Whistle Mob doing the same since 4 month, they are very quiet even the business is more down than ever before.

What a load of complete and utter crap. Fascism has nothing to do with it. This is about right and wrong. Everything that Thaksin stands for is wrong. He has done everything he can to pilfer the country, every time he or his people have been in power, many many abuses of power have happened. He doesn't know the meaning of the word ;'democracy' and neither do any of his cronies. All the trouble the last 10 years has been about Thaksin trying to continue the abuse and those who can see what he has done trying to stop him. This is the real 'war', it has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy, it is a convenient excuse and he has managed through his network of crooks and cronies and all the lies to make the uneducated believe his bullshit ! Thaksin would rather destroy the country and have thousands dead than take his claws out of Thailand. He and his family and cronies who support his immoral and illegal actions are all detritrtus of the worst kind, the red riots of 2010 are on his head, the politically motivated murders of the last 6 months are on his head as is whatever is forthcoming. This 'war' has 0% to do with democracy, it is 100% about Thaksin's lust for power and to keep the kingdom under his control for his personal gain.

[lostmebike]

All Jutaporn is saying is that people mandate should be respected, not trampled and violated. If you believed in democracy, you should cheer for him. Give the UDD the right to elect and they will go home. Simple.

I have nothing but disdain for both sides but your above statement is hilarious!

The man is nothing short of a thug (jailed on terrorism charges then handed a get-out-of-jail-free-card don't forget) trying to incite more violence.

[CockneyGit]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

Yet one more example, as if we needed if, of the Reds' intolerance of any opinion other than their own. Now, they want to "cleanse" this forum of messages that offend them. A good example of what the Khmer Rouge-like Reds will do when they get their hands around the entire throat of Thailand. A plunge off a precipice into darkness.

They were elected you know. They can do what they want now. Don't have to answer to anyone. Above the law.

Usual PTP/UDD mantra.

What amazes me is that people really fall for the PR that PTP are democractic.

I wont say they are democratic, but they where democratic elected by the majority of Thai people.

What amazes me is that people really fall for Suthep and believe he will ever lead to democracy .

Neither side is democratic.

One side wants the poor to have no say in electing a government, the other wants to bleed the country dry.

Until ''the people'' realise this and actually do something about it, we'll be going round in circles for years to come!

[bigbamboo]

Seem that a simple election will stop all these madness. However we have one side insisting and persisting with undemocratic power grap with help of the judiciary. If you keep ousting a democratically elected government by means of a putsch thrice in just 9 years, you got very angry people whose freedom of choice has been trampled again and again.

Agree.

Suthep has made a brave attempt at exposing the deceits of this government and it's controlling supremo in Dubai. But enough is enough. Now the people have had a chance to evaluate the position they should be allowed to decide where they stand.

Rallies won't tell us anything, only an honest election will. Whoever they choose the Thais will get the government they deserve.

[rtco]

There seems to be a lot of Red shirt bashing here. Lest we forget that our esteemed PDRC leader Suthep tried to close down BKK and caused havoc and they disrupted a perfectly legal election. The Red shirts stayed quiet so now that they are starting to agitate they are the ones in the wrong. Both sides need a good kick up the backside tbh. I have said this before and I will say it again ... let the democratic process take it's course. Unfortunately I don't think the power brokers will let it with one legal challenge followed by another and the bribery of the various bodies and officials who are making some of these absurd decisions. Whatever happens Thailand is going down the tubes fast. No one in the right mind will want to visit given the political upheaval going on. Tourism is down and that is the life-blood of the Thai economy. I have been living here for the last 3-years and am now considering going back to the UK ... that place I hated so much because of the politics. At least is democratic!!!

[Globeman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

the silent majority have had enough of being trampled on by the big boys so a warning they wont tolerate being shafted again ?

Again the questions:

- Who do you mean 'the silent majority'

- Who do you mean by 'big boys so a warning they wont tolerate being shafted again ?'

Please share.

His meaning seems clear to me... but it sounds like you are throwing down the gauntlet, chin pointed forward, daring the man to admit that he is a red shirt sympathiser - no doubt so he can be properly pilloried by the hugely conservative element of TV.

[soalbundy]

what have we got here,the sopranos against the gambrini mob.It's a shame Al Capone isn't around anymore he would have enjoyed the semi legal mobster activities disguised as politics.

[CWN]

OK, Jatuporn are calling for a military coup now?

Actually, I think this is what the big boss in Dunbai wants. Takes the eyes off all the multiple corruption charges.

Then he can go to the western media saying,

see what they are doing with our democrazy...

they did it to me as well and worst off all, they took my money!

UN please heeeeelp!

[Donnie Brasco]

Historical imperatives playing out (as usual) in the square.

Don't really care for any of the the many prime movers on either side of this classic.

But such "big wars" are usually fought and won with pitchforks.

And that big yellow hiso pedigree bus on TV is suuuuuure gettin' crowded.

Is it really so high so or is it lo so or just so-so?

Maybe it's time our rah-rah crowd asked themselves where's this thing goin' ?

and who's really driving ? and, if there will be on-board computers or rest stops.

most importantly, if meals will really be served.

Just sayin'

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[Donnie Brasco]

OK, Jatuporn are calling for a military coup now?

Actually, I think this is what the big boss in Dunbai wants. Takes the eyes off all the multiple corruption charges.

Then he can go to the western media saying,

see what they are doing with our democrazy...

they did it to me as well and worst off all, they took my money!

UN please heeeeelp!

Despite appearances, the UN is owned and operated by the US the Banks and the corporates.

Globalism

Globalism

Globalism

Thaksin has found many deep dish allies on the boards of various globalist think tanks.

China looks on with great interest at this little tempest in a BREAD BASKET (Thailand is AEC's ONLY net food producer. They already control the waters of the Mekong.

Food . . . . At this point it's the only thing more important than oil.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[rucus7]

the silent majority have had enough of being trampled on by the big boys so a warning they wont tolerate being shafted again ?

Are you referring to the unpaid farmers?

[thaipod]

He claims that 500,000 have signed up to attend this upcoming rally . I really pity these people , most of them have been brain washed and pushed into attending .

Let's see how many actually turn up , like the other times that they claimed their would be a million, but only 10000 arrived.

[Baerboxer]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

The pro-Suthep farang are in fact and reality contemporary fascists who want to retain as much of the quaint and charming feudal order of the post-war period as possible. They don't want girls from Issan out of their bar slave roles in Bangkok nor do they want any more of the modern world in Thailand than they are compelled by reality to accept. Developments of the past 14-15 years are directly relevant to these fahlang, personally, vitally, in their entirety. Their virulent lashing out against the changes modernization has imposed on the society testifies to the vested interests of these farang in their own private yet passé quaint and charming feudal Thailand. If they weren't so personally invested in multiple ways, they wouldn't be making such unrelenting and unrestrained personal attacks against those who threaten their own private Thailand.

The talk in recent years of republicanism is just that, a lot of empty talk. Keep In mind however that such talk mortifies these fahlang. The only two native English language countries that are republics are Ireland and the United States, neither of which are strongly represented among farang. Even the empty talk of republicanism here doesn't calm the hyper horrors of so many fahlang.

The Republic of Ireland - a native English speaking country?

USA - a native English speaking country?

The original inhabitants of both countries may take exception to that. I know a considerable number of Americans and Irish who live in Thailand, so I suspect the representation is stronger than you state.

There are few pro-Suthep posters on TV. The % of farangs that I know or have met and spoken with that support Suthep is tiny. Equally the % that think PTP is controlled by Thaksin and is about as democratic as Mugabe or Hun Sen is very high. Most people, whatever their origin, can see through the lies and cheating which is not exactly subtle or hidden anymore. That doesn't mean they are automatically Suthep supporters or extreme right wing. Most would like to see a real democracy, with real law and order and justice, without the abysmally corrupt politicians and civil servants. That would seem unlikely under either of the current political parties.

Calling people who don't sympathize with one of these parties fascist implies the other side are communists, Stalinists or Trotskyists. These are Western labels and don't really act as appropriate nouns or adjectives on the Thai political scenario. Not sure if you are that stupid or just trolling, but think which countries fought wars and lost hundreds of thousands of lives fighting fascism, nazis, communists, and all the other forms of totalitarianism before you make slanderous comments about people based on their country of origin.

Your political commentary reminds me of the very left wing labor party "supporters" of the 70's. Anyone who wasn't an avid supporter of the soviet people's republic system or dared say anything against it must be a fascist.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Publicus]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

The pro-Suthep farang are in fact and reality contemporary fascists who want to retain as much of the quaint and charming feudal order of the post-war period as possible. They don't want girls from Issan out of their bar slave roles in Bangkok nor do they want any more of the modern world in Thailand than they are compelled by reality to accept. Developments of the past 14-15 years are directly relevant to these fahlang, personally, vitally, in their entirety. Their virulent lashing out against the changes modernization has imposed on the society testifies to the vested interests of these farang in their own private yet passé quaint and charming feudal Thailand. If they weren't so personally invested in multiple ways, they wouldn't be making such unrelenting and unrestrained personal attacks against those who threaten their own private Thailand.

The talk in recent years of republicanism is just that, a lot of empty talk. Keep In mind however that such talk mortifies these fahlang. The only two native English language countries that are republics are Ireland and the United States, neither of which are strongly represented among farang. Even the empty talk of republicanism here doesn't calm the hyper horrors of so many fahlang.

Very good post.

And they hate the 300 Baht minimum wage and tax rise on beer...

When the Reds occupied the streets in Bangkok, many Farangs cried foul on daily base.

Now with the Yellow Whistle Mob doing the same since 4 month, they are very quiet even the business is more down than ever before.

I should like to extend my post and add to your own more specific post by citing the following

"Whether the power and wealth agent that takes the place of government is a local baron, lord, or corporation, if it has greater power in the lives of individuals than does a representative government, the culture has dissolved into feudalism. The feudal system means the rigorous economic subjection of a host of humble folk to a few powerful men. This doesn't mean the end of government, but, instead the subordination of government to the interest of the feudal lords."

http://www.hermes-press.com/fascist_globalism.htm

To which I would add, in this specific instance, the local feudal lords and their liege fahlang.

[bkksteviejai]

There seems to be a lot of Red shirt bashing here. Lest we forget that our esteemed PDRC leader Suthep tried to close down BKK and caused havoc and they disrupted a perfectly legal election. The Red shirts stayed quiet so now that they are starting to agitate they are the ones in the wrong. Both sides need a good kick up the backside tbh. I have said this before and I will say it again ... let the democratic process take it's course. Unfortunately I don't think the power brokers will let it with one legal challenge followed by another and the bribery of the various bodies and officials who are making some of these absurd decisions. Whatever happens Thailand is going down the tubes fast. No one in the right mind will want to visit given the political upheaval going on. Tourism is down and that is the life-blood of the Thai economy. I have been living here for the last 3-years and am now considering going back to the UK ... that place I hated so much because of the politics. At least is democratic!!!

Steady now. Don't wet your pants just yet. Thailand and Thai people are pretty resilient I think.......keep that pecker up!.

[Publicus]

They were elected you know. They can do what they want now. Don't have to answer to anyone. Above the law.

Usual PTP/UDD mantra.

What amazes me is that people really fall for the PR that PTP are democractic.

I wont say they are democratic, but they where democratic elected by the majority of Thai people.

What amazes me is that people really fall for Suthep and believe he will ever lead to democracy .

Neither side is democratic.

One side wants the poor to have no say in electing a government, the other wants to bleed the country dry.

Until ''the people'' realise this and actually do something about it, we'll be going round in circles for years to come!

The political choices are, frankly speaking, awful and farang seem to be only aggravating and compounding the challenges, problems..

There are the flaming posts that are written from the presumption this is a fight between the forces of good versus the forces of evil incarnate. Contrary to the blazing colors of their respective posts, however, too many posters think, believe, write, in black and white terms - simplistic Manichean terms.

While I recognize Thaksin's complex impact on Thai society and history, I wouldn't ever say he's someone I could advocate. Suthep believes in what he is doing, but he is a militant reactionary and an equally corrupt Thaksin who, moreover, has walked freely for too long without himself having been rightfully hauled in to a court of law.

Thaksin's friends are not necessarily my friends. Likewise, Suthep and his pals don't turn my thinking either. So it's been a false dichotomy from the outset, many years ago. Indeed, how can the enemy of my enemy be my friend when in fact all of these people are the worst enemies a person could have the misfortune to meet. The guy you one day thought was your best buddy and ally suddenly becomes your opponent and, worse, your virulent enemy. Few, if any, among these people and their posters could ever be my friend.

So rather than having this black-white Manichean dichotomy, Thailand has more so stumbled in to a sort of socio-economic and political manage 'a trois. There are the people who have, in their final analysis, decided democracy doesn't serve their interests. There are those who believe democracy is their only possibility. And between each is the interface of those who worship the global economy and its big bucks.

Corruption is no stranger to any of them.

[Jonmarleesco]

I wonder, in the event of a 'big war', where General Jatuporn will be standing while rallying his troops? In the vanguard? The rearguard? Or as far away as possible?

[SOTIRIOS]

...dance on stage....get arrested....

...incite war......nothing.....???

[zydeco]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

The pro-Suthep farang are in fact and reality contemporary fascists who want to retain as much of the quaint and charming feudal order of the post-war period as possible. They don't want girls from Issan out of their bar slave roles in Bangkok nor do they want any more of the modern world in Thailand than they are compelled by reality to accept. Developments of the past 14-15 years are directly relevant to these fahlang, personally, vitally, in their entirety. Their virulent lashing out against the changes modernization has imposed on the society testifies to the vested interests of these farang in their own private yet passé quaint and charming feudal Thailand. If they weren't so personally invested in multiple ways, they wouldn't be making such unrelenting and unrestrained personal attacks against those who threaten their own private Thailand.

The talk in recent years of republicanism is just that, a lot of empty talk. Keep In mind however that such talk mortifies these fahlang. The only two native English language countries that are republics are Ireland and the United States, neither of which are strongly represented among farang. Even the empty talk of republicanism here doesn't calm the hyper horrors of so many fahlang.

Very good post.

And they hate the 300 Baht minimum wage and tax rise on beer...

When the Reds occupied the streets in Bangkok, many Farangs cried foul on daily base.

Now with the Yellow Whistle Mob doing the same since 4 month, they are very quiet even the business is more down than ever before.

I should like to extend my post and add to your own more specific post by citing the following

"Whether the power and wealth agent that takes the place of government is a local baron, lord, or corporation, if it has greater power in the lives of individuals than does a representative government, the culture has dissolved into feudalism. The feudal system means the rigorous economic subjection of a host of humble folk to a few powerful men. This doesn't mean the end of government, but, instead the subordination of government to the interest of the feudal lords."

http://www.hermes-press.com/fascist_globalism.htm

To which I would add, in this specific instance, the local feudal lords and their liege fahlang.

Quoting from some extremist nutcase's blog (whose TV show is distributed by RT--the Russian government's wack-a-ding cable news network) doesn't really do much to enhance your credibility.

[than]

He claims that 500,000 have signed up to attend this upcoming rally . I really pity these people , most of them have been brain washed and pushed into attending .

Let's see how many actually turn up , like the other times that they claimed their would be a million, but only 10000 arrived.

don't worry, the claim of number of participant decline all days, in the begin Reds announce 1 Millions peoples will come, after just half, and today only 200 000.......

Very amazing !

[gemini81]

He's a female dog with a big bark & no bite. Such a joke. Hope somebody serves him up what he deserves soon.

[Donnie Brasco]

While it's nice to hear from the locals from time to time on this board it's pretty clear that there are two main groups capable of posting.

The self taught gals who have learned to use what god has given them in order to pull themselves up in Thai society would be one group.

The self-satisfied spawn of privileged elites who've graduated from third rate Western Uni's, kacked out in the west and scampered back to a tragically over-staffed family noodle shop would be another.

Since the tarts are all busy hustling gringo marks on the "dating" sites they are rarely motivated to post anti-gov't snipes here.

The privileged returning kacksters have the time and present just enough grammatical tells to reveal themselves here in this forum.

In terms of accuracy, ingenuity, credibility, pureness of purpose, intellectual appeal, originality and creativity the foraging posts of the love questors FAR outclass those of the idle elite we endure in these threads.

Just sayin'

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 3, 2014 by Donnie Brasco

[Nickymaster]

Seem that a simple election will stop all these madness. However we have one side insisting and persisting with undemocratic power grap with help of the judiciary. If you keep ousting a democratically elected government by means of a putsch thrice in just 9 years, you got very angry people whose freedom of choice has been trampled again and again.

An election will only justify Thaksin's/Pt's crimes. So it will not happen anytime soon. Reform is the key but for some reason PT is happy the way things are going now. Well, they should be because after all they have again made billions over the last 2.5 years.

Talk about angry people as long as you want but reform is the way out.

Just a kind reminder why there was a coup in 2006:

The official statement said the ousted leader had caused “an unprecedented rift in society, widespread corruption, nepotism, and interfered with independent agencies, crippling them so they cannot function. If [Thaksin's regime] is allowed to govern it will hurt the country. They have also repeatedly insulted the King. Thus the council needed to seize power.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2012/01/25/commentary/conversations-with-thaksin-thailands-prime-suspect/#.UypoJNkwzRQ

Edited April 3, 2014 by Nickymaster

[billd766]

I am amazed at the overwhelming anti democratic posts here.

You are all advocating Thailand rejects the voters choice of government. (yet again)

Why?

It has zero relevance to you, as a foreigner, yet you think your views mean something.

They are irrelevant so calm down and stop thinking you know what you are talking about.

Yet one more example, as if we needed if, of the Reds' intolerance of any opinion other than their own. Now, they want to "cleanse" this forum of messages that offend them. A good example of what the Khmer Rouge-like Reds will do when they get their hands around the entire throat of Thailand. A plunge off a precipice into darkness.

They were elected you know. They can do what they want now. Don't have to answer to anyone. Above the law.

Usual PTP/UDD mantra.

What amazes me is that people really fall for the PR that PTP are democractic.

I wont say they are democratic, but they where democratic elected by the majority of Thai people.

What amazes me is that people really fall for Suthep and believe he will ever lead to democracy .

Sorry to burst your bubble but the PTP were NOT elected by the majority of the Thai people but by only 43% of the voters.

I know that I am old but 43% is smaller than 57% and if you think I am wrong then you should go back to school. Even my 9 year old son knows that 43 is not bigger than 57.

[billd766]

All Jutaporn is saying is that people mandate should be respected, not trampled and violated. If you believed in democracy, you should cheer for him. Give the UDD the right to elect and they will go home. Simple.

NO he isn't. He IS saying if we can't get our own way legally then we will TAKE it anyway we want.

If YOU believe in democracy then you will know that it is NOT just a vote that makes democracy.

It is also honesty, transparency, accountability, personal responsibility, working for the the benefit of ALL the Thai people and not just the favoured few and ignoring the rest.

It is respect for ALL the laws and rules, court judgements both for and against you, like it or not.

The PTP have taken the vote, claimed the majority and trampled on the rest of the lines that I wrote above.

Sadly they believe that they are above all the people of Thailand and the rules and laws that apply to EVERYBODY don't apply to them.

[mikemac]

Dear arrogant Bangkok People,

lets imagine the UDD comes to Bangkok and no violence happends. I think then you are very unhappy. Oh my god, the redshirts are so primitive and you Bangkok people are so cultivated and intelligent.

I can understand very well, why some people dont want to be governed from Bangkok.

This is the reason I dont want to live in a big city. I dont want to become like you.

Best wishes

Tom

.........................."the redshirts are so primitive and you Bangkok people are so cultivated and intelligent."...................................

Well, at least you have learned one thing during your short stay here !

[Eric Loh]

All Jutaporn is saying is that people mandate should be respected, not trampled and violated. If you believed in democracy, you should cheer for him. Give the UDD the right to elect and they will go home. Simple.

NO he isn't. He IS saying if we can't get our own way legally then we will TAKE it anyway we want.

If YOU believe in democracy then you will know that it is NOT just a vote that makes democracy.

It is also honesty, transparency, accountability, personal responsibility, working for the the benefit of ALL the Thai people and not just the favoured few and ignoring the rest.

It is respect for ALL the laws and rules, court judgements both for and against you, like it or not.

The PTP have taken the vote, claimed the majority and trampled on the rest of the lines that I wrote above.

Sadly they believe that they are above all the people of Thailand and the rules and laws that apply to EVERYBODY don't apply to them.

Why is election not legal? It's Suterp that is acting illegally and want to TAKE it anyway he wants albeit with the help of the judiciary.

The judiciary acted in a way that people cast suspicion and has done that before. They have behaved in a way that showed double standard. If you can't see that than I felt you have not researched hard enough.

I can agree a vote is only part of democracy but a people council is outright non democractic.

[zydeco]

The thermometer says it's just a hair below 39 out here on Sai 3 this afternoon. I hope it's 50 on Saturday and Sunday and fries these kooks to a crisp.