Thawil case could force Yingluck's exit

[rametindallas]

Poor Thaksin. So many decisions and so little time. 15 days to defend against this case and witnesses in the negligence case to testify before Songkran. Need.More.Lawyers. Which case will cause baby sis to lose the PM's chair first? The negligence of duty in the rice scheme or this case. Its all happening so quick. Will the courts continue to prosecute her once she is out of office on when she is out of the country?

He thought in December, "I'll just have Yingluck dissolve the Lower House, hold snap elections that I'm guaranteed to win, get a new mandate from the 'People' and continue as before". My, how circumstances have changed. Too many shortcuts to get things done (CEO way and not government way), too many illegal processes, too much corruption to keep within limits, and now, too many chickens coming home to roost and not enough power to stop them. Woe to poor Thaksin; no sleep for him.

When she is out, the caretaker cabinet will have 30 days to elect a new PM (similar to what happened with Samak). Then the new election and the PTP are back in business.

Of course there is that little issue of the upcoming NACC case against the 308 MP's and senators. If it is a guilty verdict, the NACC will need 60% of the senators to validate a guilty verdict. It is hard to even begin to predict which way this will all go.

The cabinet will not wait 30 days as Dr. Thaksin already know who Yingluck's successor will be.

If nobody is red-carded, the Senate is now 80/40 anti-Thaksin with the rest of unknown affiliation. 60% would be 90 Senators. Was Thai Rak Thai and People's Power Party dissolved with the help of the Senate or was that a court decision alone. I thought it was a court decision. If, (and I think it is very likely) PTP is dissolved, then the Senate will have to appoint an interim PM until elections are held. The legal issues and what the Constitution say are murky at best and something for the courts to decide.

[MILT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Could force exit .

Yes, but in that case elections will be the next step, so Suthep will lose also, nut such a bad idea.

Suthep is not really apposed to elections. His stance has been and still seems to be that once

reforms and oversight is firmly established that he supports the democratic process of supporting a people mandate

to whom should be in the PM position and related cabinets. Suthep and the rest are exposing the Thaskin regime and their allies

as to what they truly represent. These new reforms will have an effect even on the other side of the aisle. So actually Suthep doesn't really win nor lose

as the objective is meant for real change.

[petedk]

Yingluck must be crossing her fingers to be removed once and for all, she never wanted the job in the first place but she can't just quit without her brother's permission. So better hope to be legally removed and be done with it.

the vast majority of Thais will be sorry to see her go (but I guess it's inevitable) with all the judicial pressure from the ammart

FIRST female PM in Thailand and she deserves much credit - as compared to Abhisit who cowers in the corner bleating "I won't play, unless I win, - I won't play, unless I win"

Credit for what? What has she done?

She didn't do her own election campaign. Everything was done for her.

She never attended any important discussions or meetings.

Public statements are made on Facebook.

Only in Thailand!

[Scamper]

" There is a 50-per-cent possibility that the government could be toppled this month," he said. "

It should be noted that this was uttered by a member of the " caretaker cabinet ". It is also highly plausible. Indeed, the verdict over the Tawil case will likely come first, and as the court verdicts have been consistent regarding it - and the most recent final ruling by the Supreme Administrative Court was unanimous in it's verdict of the unconstitutionality of it - that really appears to be it. A parliamentary vacuum would indeed be created if Yingluck and her cabinet were removed. And the absence of a parliamentary quorum means that Article 7 becomes the vehicle for an interim prime minister. According to Article 7, a prime minister is nominated through the Senate. Academics have been citing Article 7 for months now. The focus on it now will be much more intense. It provides the constitutional path for this situation.

[billd766]

Could force exit .

Yes, but in that case elections will be the next step, so Suthep will lose also, nut such a bad idea.

That assumes of course that Suthep stands for election.

I do wish that I had your ability to predict the future.

OTOH all your predictions have benn wrong lately so I guess I will stay as I am.

[Bakseeda]

Could force exit .

Yes, but in that case elections will be the next step, so Suthep will lose also, nut such a bad idea.

ikke, just in case there is something about this conflict that you don't understand.... Suthep has Never and will Never lose anything... he and his friends have won hands down from the very beginning... They Never had anything to lose.. and a government who played straight into their hands... A goverment so conceited and arrogant ,who thought they were above all checks and balances.. But Unluckily, Mr T cannot walk on water.... sit back and watch him drown .... Rock on the Thai peoples...

[billd766]

Yingluck must be crossing her fingers to be removed once and for all, she never wanted the job in the first place but she can't just quit without her brother's permission. So better hope to be legally removed and be done with it.

the vast majority of Thais will be sorry to see her go (but I guess it's inevitable) with all the judicial pressure from the ammart

FIRST female PM in Thailand and she deserves much credit - as compared to Abhisit who cowers in the corner bleating "I won't play, unless I win, - I won't play, unless I win"

She is possibly the only PM in the world who had NO political experience at all and was selected for the position by a convicted criminal fugitive who she STILL fails to bring to justice.

[billd766]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

Samak was NOT remeoved for his cooking show. He broke the kaw which say a PM CANNOT have 2 jobs and he also publically lied about it.

After he was removed he could have become PM again but Thaksin gave the post to his BIL Somchai of the PPP.

The PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud.

If the TRT is disbanded then it will be because of fraud, nepotism, and general law breaking.

They all learned theif craft from their master, Thaksin Shinawatra.

[tingtongteesood]

"Yingluck is likely to face the same fate as late prime minister Samak Sundaravej, who was purged from office in 2008 after the Constitutional Court ruled he had violated the Constitution by accepting payments to appear on cooking TV shows while in office. As a result of the decision against Samak, his entire Cabinet was also required to step down."

Good thing they caught him. Everyone knows those cooking shows are the real biggest threats to democracies, not judicial coups that set up unelected governments based on technicality and shabby law interpretation.

I wish you twits would stop endlessly whining about this.

THE LAW IS THE LAW.

He knew the law when he took the PM job, he violated the law, he was removed. You may consider it petty, but the rules were broken. Why do you think they should not apply to him ?

Oh yeah, laws don't apply top the red cronies and lackeys.....

[Robroona]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Always assuming that it was within the rules of that particular country and blatant nepotism was not the order of the day. References to Obama would have some validity if Thailand and USA had the same laws. They obviously don't

[Wombat6]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

So you don't think the removal of Thawli and replacing him with a relative was an act of political interference?

Thats what a <deleted> elected government do. Politics. Sometimes you dont agree with them, but they where still elected to do them.

No Government i elected to breal it's countries laws.

[dwcrist]

"Yingluck is likely to face the same fate as late prime minister Samak Sundaravej, who was purged from office in 2008 after the Constitutional Court ruled he had violated the Constitution by accepting payments to appear on cooking TV shows while in office. As a result of the decision against Samak, his entire Cabinet was also required to step down."

Good thing they caught him. Everyone knows those cooking shows are the real biggest threats to democracies, not judicial coups that set up unelected governments based on technicality and shabby law interpretation.

I wish you twits would stop endlessly whining about this.

THE LAW IS THE LAW.

He knew the law when he took the PM job, he violated the law, he was removed. You may consider it petty, but the rules were broken. Why do you think they should not apply to him ?

Oh yeah, laws don't apply top the red cronies and lackeys.....

You are correct, of course. We shouldn't whine about laws being enforced. But my point is not whining, it is that laws are applied in Thailand (to both red and yellow big-shots) only when someone has an agenda or something to gain from their demise. Laws here are not enforced to maintain fairness or safety, they are purposely enforced (or not enforced) on a case by case basis based on personal or political gain. Interpretations of the law and punishment are very elastic based on the power/money of those involved. Examples of this mindset are plentiful, even in everyday life.

So do reforms need to happen? Does this democracy need an overhaul? Heck Yes! But it needs to come from both sides without one equally corrupt side undemocratically commandeering the country. Laws need to be revised to make practical sense for this country and this day and age. They need to be agreed upon by all parties who need to hold themselves and each other accountable for the benefit of the country and not for themselves. I sincerely hope that is not too much to hope for.

[Baerboxer]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

And what do those 4 illegitimate governments have in common?

Edited April 3, 2014 by Baerboxer

[SICHONSTEVE]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Rules are rules and laws are laws - they are something you must abide by in government (even in Thailand)!!!

[Malone]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

Samak was NOT remeoved for his cooking show. He broke the kaw which say a PM CANNOT have 2 jobs and he also publically lied about it.

After he was removed he could have become PM again but Thaksin gave the post to his BIL Somchai of the PPP.

The PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud.

If the TRT is disbanded then it will be because of fraud, nepotism, and general law breaking.

They all learned theif craft from their master, Thaksin Shinawatra.

Thank you.

It's amazing how many times Samak Defenders trot out their lies.

[Malone]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

The idea that Obama can't move someone in a permanent role to make way for someone in his family is refreshing.

Thank you.

It's amazing how often the Yingluck Defenders don't understand basic concepts.

[DekDaeng]

"There is a 50-per-cent possibility that the government could be toppled this month," he said.

It's this sort of comment that is at the root of this long running political storm which has engulfed Thailand. The government is not being toppled. The government is being held to account and being scrutinized, as all governments should be and at least in the majority of countries are! and in this case the Yingluck government, will as a result of that scrutiny in all likelyhood be found to have broken fundamental laws and be removed.

A government can't break the law it is entrusted to uphold and expect to maintain its position.

It would appear that the government toppled itself through sheer arrogance and a misplaced sense of superiority over the law.

'through sheer arrogance'

or sheer iggerance?

[binjalin]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

yes and how ridiculous was that?

[binjalin]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

But if he did so to put one of his relatives in the position instead there might be questions asked.

Surely even the most blinkered observer can see that whilst putting your family members in the key positions in government may work in Middle East fiefdoms Thailand is still ostensibly a democratic nation and if you do that in a real democracy you are asking for trouble.

i am against it but if you think that whole of Thailand is not run like that then you are mistaken - it is all wrong! but to crucify one party and somehow think the ammart party is 'innocent' is absurd

[SICHONSTEVE]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

yes and how ridiculous was that?

This government was ridiculous and incompetent beyond belief - glad you agree with me!!

[robertson468]

I would say this country is becoming 'ungovernable' (by either side). If a PM cannot chose his or her own Security Chief and then get's forced to take back a Security Chief who has pledged allegiance to the overthrow of that SAME PM then a farce it looks like and a farce it is. As for nepotism of course I am very much against it on either side but that is not the point here - they knew this guy was a yellow and wanted their own choice - perfectly reasonable.

IF the Dems EVER win an election (without 'help' from the judiciary) they will no doubt choose their own candidate.

The point you seem to fail to grasp is that it was against the Constitution - that thing they call the law. It is pointless citing comparisons of American or any other legislation; other Countries Laws are not applicable in Thailand and vice versa. As is, was the act carried out in ignorance of the law, or because they considered they were above the law. Irrelevant - the law is written in the Constitution and they acted against it, therefore they need to answer for this misdeed in the law courts, where they should argue the case. If found not guilty, then soldier on team, if found guilty then please turn smartly to the right and march off stage. Ip so facto.

[Old Man River]

Poor Thaksin. So many decisions and so little time. 15 days to defend against this case and witnesses in the negligence case to testify before Songkran. Need.More.Lawyers. Which case will cause baby sis to lose the PM's chair first? The negligence of duty in the rice scheme or this case. Its all happening so quick. Will the courts continue to prosecute her once she is out of office on when she is out of the country?

He thought in December, "I'll just have Yingluck dissolve the Lower House, hold snap elections that I'm guaranteed to win, get a new mandate from the 'People' and continue as before". My, how circumstances have changed. Too many shortcuts to get things done (CEO way and not government way), too many illegal processes, too much corruption to keep within limits, and now, too many chickens coming home to roost and not enough power to stop them. Woe to poor Thaksin; no sleep for him.

When she is out, the caretaker cabinet will have 30 days to elect a new PM (similar to what happened with Samak). Then the new election and the PTP are back in business.

Of course there is that little issue of the upcoming NACC case against the 308 MP's and senators. If it is a guilty verdict, the NACC will need 60% of the senators to validate a guilty verdict. It is hard to even begin to predict which way this will all go.

The cabinet will not wait 30 days as Dr. Thaksin already know who Yingluck's successor will be.

If nobody is red-carded, the Senate is now 80/40 anti-Thaksin with the rest of unknown affiliation. 60% would be 90 Senators. Was Thai Rak Thai and People's Power Party dissolved with the help of the Senate or was that a court decision alone. I thought it was a court decision. If, (and I think it is very likely) PTP is dissolved, then the Senate will have to appoint an interim PM until elections are held. The legal issues and what the Constitution say are murky at best and something for the courts to decide.

From memory, on the dissolutions, it was the constitutional court. On Thawil, while his being reinstated has already been in the Supreme Court, it concerned his reinstatement, not the PM's dismissal. Hence, if the CC decides against her, I guess YL's attorneys could still appeal to the Supreme Court that she has obeyed them and has re-instated him, and therefore should not be dismissed. It could be argued as a separate issue, although I think the law is clear on this. You never know.

On the Senate, the PTP will most probably carry the 90, but comments yesterday by some of the ministers that their reputations may be on the line could have some of the elected senators thinking the same way. While a month or so ago, some who would have voted with YL, maybe now have second thoughts. It is anyone's guess, but your original point that the walls are closing in on her is straight on.

[soalbundy]

"Yingluck is likely to face the same fate as late prime minister Samak Sundaravej, who was purged from office in 2008 after the Constitutional Court ruled he had violated the Constitution by accepting payments to appear on cooking TV shows while in office. As a result of the decision against Samak, his entire Cabinet was also required to step down."

Good thing they caught him. Everyone knows those cooking shows are the real biggest threats to democracies, not judicial coups that set up unelected governments based on technicality and shabby law interpretation.

I wish you twits would stop endlessly whining about this.

THE LAW IS THE LAW.

He knew the law when he took the PM job, he violated the law, he was removed. You may consider it petty, but the rules were broken. Why do you think they should not apply to him ?

Oh yeah, laws don't apply top the red cronies and lackeys.....

Laws don't apply in Thailand,full stop.

[mikemac]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

So you don't think the removal of Thawli and replacing him with a relative was an act of political interference?

Thats what a <deleted> elected government do. Politics. Sometimes you dont agree with them, but they where still elected to do them.

"

Thats what a <deleted> elected government do. Politics. Sometimes you dont agree with them, but they where still elected to do them."

Quite possibly the dumbest comment I have read in years.

They were also elected in the hope of looking after the people who voted for them, but those poor people were blatantly ripped off. I bet the rice farmers don't agree with them "politics".

[rickirs]

"The government could argue by citing Article 181 of the Constitution that the outgoing Cabinet must remain in office until a new government is sworn in." Sorry but any constitutional arguments by the PTP are automatically unconstitutional. The Courts has shown absolute consistency in rulings that violate the constitution and clearly operates above the law. It's no wonder the PTP supporters feel frustrated by the loss of the democratic process beyond their control to preserve it.

[notmyself]

That assumes of course that Suthep stands for election.

I hope not.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Old Man River]

"Yingluck is likely to face the same fate as late prime minister Samak Sundaravej, who was purged from office in 2008 after the Constitutional Court ruled he had violated the Constitution by accepting payments to appear on cooking TV shows while in office. As a result of the decision against Samak, his entire Cabinet was also required to step down."

Good thing they caught him. Everyone knows those cooking shows are the real biggest threats to democracies, not judicial coups that set up unelected governments based on technicality and shabby law interpretation.

I wish you twits would stop endlessly whining about this.

THE LAW IS THE LAW.

He knew the law when he took the PM job, he violated the law, he was removed. You may consider it petty, but the rules were broken. Why do you think they should not apply to him ?

Oh yeah, laws don't apply top the red cronies and lackeys.....

Laws don't apply in Thailand,full stop.

Laws apply in Thailand. Interpretations change. Full stop.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JamesHawkins]

"There have been several such cases that involved double standards and the jettisoning of all legal principles. A favorite is the junta’s Assets Scrutiny Committee (or the Asset Examination Committee) which was stacked with anti-Thaksin Shinawatra appointees and its work was only ruled legal because it was undertaken under junta rules. That committee’s secretary Kaewsan Atibhodhi claimed “evidence and witnesses are useless,” with one of its panels recommending legal action without hearing 300 witnesses or considering 100 additional pieces of evidence. Another example is the 2008 judicial coup that resulted in the dissolution of several parties that formed the government, where the Constitutional Court refused to hear more than 200 witnesses in the defense of the three parties that were dissolved"

"Wicha Mahakhun, a member of the NACC and former constitution drafter for the military junta in 2007, is quoted from back then: “We all know elections are evil…”. He added: “People, especially academics who want to see the Constitution lead to genuine democracy, are naïve…”

"Likhit Dhiravegin, said to be “a prominent academic and frequent commentator on television,” has said that “an ‘orchestrated’ judicial coup was already underway.” He added: “everybody knows about it, inside and outside the country.”

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/tag/national-anti-corruption-commission/

But even after so much blatant evidence of the impartiality of independent agencies the TV yellow cheer-leading squad still argue till they are blue in the face that JUSTICE is being done.

You've finally seen the light Rich Teacher! Yes, there is "so much blatant evidence of the impartiality of independent agencies" and therefore JUSTICE is being done! Your own sub-conscious has exposed you.

[Malone]

nothing to do with justice EVERYTHING to do with political interference

the idea that Obama could not move his Security Chief to another role is bizarre and absurd - what a farce

Remember, Samak was removed because his cooking show on TV. He get paid some hundred Baht per show.

Now Yingluck's caretaker government will be the 4th legitime Government removed in just a few years.

yes and how ridiculous was that?

More ridiculous is that it is a lie.