Golf membership - Its just not worth it

[scubascuba3]

I've done some basic calculations and playing golf in Thailand a few times a week is just not worth it. If you played 3 times a week using PSC or IPGC it would cost £7k a year. If you joined a club, ignoring joining fee it would cost £4k, still too expensive.

What does everyone else think? If you didn't have to pay caddy fees it would be not too bad.

[finsbury]

I guess you are referring to courses in the Pattaya area.

Playing regularly through the bars in Pattaya certainly is not cheap over a year. I have talked to expats living there who tell me that golf is their most expensive living cost- more than rent or food (or even booze).

But does that make it worth buying membership in the Patts area? Pattaya courses probably rely more on tourist revenue than most other courses, particualrly in high season. I am wondering how easy it is to book a morning two ball at many of these courses as a member in high season with all the Koreans and Japanese around. Green Valley and Eastern Star would be two examples.

I guess thats why so many members of Green Valley play the course through societies such as the Golf Club/Lewiinskis/Caddy Shack. Even for these members I thought they still had to pay GV a reduced green fee of 400 bht (or around that).

Having said that, I remember talking a couple of years ago to the Lewinskis organiser who is a GV member. He told me that he paid 50000 baht about 10 years ago for a 25 year membership. Even after playing there regularly over 10 years he reckoned that he could sell his remaining membership for circa 125000 baht. So membership had worked for him.

To put your costings in perspective, as a member of a private members course in SE England, if I play once a week the round costs me around £30 inc transport. If I play twice a week the second round costs circa £4 (the assumed transport cost). But then I have to carry my own clubs.

Personally, unless I lived relatively close to a Pattaya course I wanted to be play regularly, and had my own transport, I would not become a member of a Pattaya course. In other parts of Thailand it might be a different matter.

Edited April 5, 2014 by finsbury

[scubascuba3]

I'm not sure if members have to pay for each round also, maybe it depends on club. But they would have to pay caddy fees of 600+baht each time. In Scotland my membership fees are £750 a year, even my ex open qualifier course in England was £1,500 still far cheaper than Thailand. I draw the line at paying more than £2k a year, it just isn't worth it, I might just play my golf in Scotland over the summer

Edited April 5, 2014 by scubascuba3

[rotary]

I have a membership on a course about 200 kms outside Bkk. Nice course and I have a small house on the course. My life time membership cost around $3300, no yearly or monthly fee's. No fee other than a caddy fee which would be about $10 a around. To me it is much better with a caddy or ball finder in my case. ha ha.

I have noticed lots of difference in course fees and other cost between areas in Thailand. It all depends on area you live in and the course combined with how much you play.

[jimmybcool]

Memberships don't always reduce costs. Doing the math is smart.

I only wish I had bought a Green Valley membership 10 years ago when it was offered for 40,000 baht. It would have been a good investment for me. But right now no. Not clear how many more years I'll be going there or where I want to play the most.

If I lived there and trusted ownership I might buy a Siam membership. Love the course and have lots of friends there. But I figure I need to play 3-4 times a week to make it worthwhile and it isn't cheap even with the membership.

[little mary sunshine]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

Edited April 7, 2014 by little mary sunshine

[JohnLee]

I have a Gymkhana Club, Chiang Mai, transferable membership if anyone is interested. Normal life membership is 60k. Selling my transferable, which covers wife (partner) and kids up to 21, for 85k. Memberships covers all sports (cricket, squash, tennis, racket ball and golf) at the Club, incl. free green fees.

PM me if interested.

[scubascuba3]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

You need to bare in mind not everyone has the same amount of money to splash about. Americans seem happy to pay caddy fees, in the UK rarely do you ever pay caddy fees. Plus Thailand doesn't really compare to Hawaii, different type of holiday. And caddy's are unnecessary unless you are fat and or unfit. Its only because its law people use one.

[finsbury]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

Americans seem happy to pay caddy fees,

I wonder how many Americans have actually ever carried their golf bag around a course.

[jimmybcool]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

Americans seem happy to pay caddy fees,

I wonder how many Americans have actually ever carried their golf bag around a course.

Not sure what planet you guys are from. I;m a yank and play a lot of golf in the USA over the years. I never saw a caddy until I came to Thailand. So drop the pathetically uninformed remarks.

[scubascuba3]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

[jimmybcool]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

Your opinion. Caddies make the game more fun sometimes. As to exercise, it's called a gym. Find one. use it.

[scubascuba3]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

Your opinion. Caddies make the game more fun sometimes. As to exercise, it's called a gym. Find one. use it.

The gym is boring, anyway this thread is about golf club membership. Do us all a favour and go to another thread. I really hope I don't have to play with anyone as obnoxious as you. You give Americans a bad name.

[little mary sunshine]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

You need to bare in mind not everyone has the same amount of money to splash about. Americans seem happy to pay caddy fees, in the UK rarely do you ever pay caddy fees. Plus Thailand doesn't really compare to Hawaii, different type of holiday. And caddy's are unnecessary unless you are fat and or unfit. Its only because its law people use one.

I have always played with a caddie. I find that caddies make the game more interesting

and a lot more fun. Fat and unfit....I don't think so, on the days "off" from golf, I walk 8 miles

a day, swim and hike. I find the Brits here in Thailand, for the most part, a rather penny

pinching bunch, that all wanted to retire early, but really without the needed funds to do so;

we Yanks, worked until 60+, at least, and have the pensions and funds where we don't need

to watch every baht.(there are always the exceptions)

[little mary sunshine]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

Your opinion. Caddies make the game more fun sometimes. As to exercise, it's called a gym. Find one. use it.

Golf and exercise in the same sentence...55555555555555555555555555555555555555

[scubascuba3]

I have a membership in Pattaya, play 3 sometime 4 times a week. Not at all

expensive compared to the States, especially Hawaii...Never even thought of

of the caddy fees as expensive or cutting out the caddy; very petty and cheap

of you, the girls work hard and are great.

You need to bare in mind not everyone has the same amount of money to splash about. Americans seem happy to pay caddy fees, in the UK rarely do you ever pay caddy fees. Plus Thailand doesn't really compare to Hawaii, different type of holiday. And caddy's are unnecessary unless you are fat and or unfit. Its only because its law people use one.

we Yanks, worked until 60+, at least, and have the pensions and funds where we don't need

to watch every baht.(there are always the exceptions)

I prefer not to generalise, but there is often a debate about when to retire, do you retire early and live on less for longer and perhaps enjoy it more at a younger age or retire at 60+ when you are more likely to suffer from stroke/heart attack. I'd rather retire younger, better odds.

[GBHK]

I too find it unpleasant and unnecessary to hire caddies and it is one of the reasons I would not want to live in Thailand all the time. It's not a matter of penny pinching, I don't like to waste money on something I don't need or want. The other reason why I wouldn't buy a membership is that very few clubs have much life in them. One of the benefits of playing in a club is the services/privileges offered to members and hopefully some kind of exclusivity. Not too many clubs offer that in Thailand...

As to exercise, you're walking about 8km regardless of having caddies or not and if you really swing at the ball, it's better for your back and your game not to carry clubs. I always walk and carry outside of Thailand and I find it helps my game a bit not to have a bag on my back the whole round. One of these days when I'm 80, I might consider buying a trolley.

Some of you need to curtail your little yank/brit banter, it's pretty childish...

[jimmybcool]

I too find it unpleasant and unnecessary to hire caddies and it is one of the reasons I would not want to live in Thailand all the time. It's not a matter of penny pinching, I don't like to waste money on something I don't need or want. The other reason why I wouldn't buy a membership is that very few clubs have much life in them. One of the benefits of playing in a club is the services/privileges offered to members and hopefully some kind of exclusivity. Not too many clubs offer that in Thailand...

As to exercise, you're walking about 8km regardless of having caddies or not and if you really swing at the ball, it's better for your back and your game not to carry clubs. I always walk and carry outside of Thailand and I find it helps my game a bit not to have a bag on my back the whole round. One of these days when I'm 80, I might consider buying a trolley.

Some of you need to curtail your little yank/brit banter, it's pretty childish...

I can respect alternate opinions regarding caddies. I don't need them as I am capable of reading greens and finding my own ball. And capable of carrying my own bag if I must. But when a group gets 4 good caddies who fit into the banter of the group I find them fun to have around. If that makes them worth the money I can't say. To each his own.

I find the memberships in Thailand are mostly only for the benefit of reducing costs. I don't believe they offer the same type of club atmosphere provided in western clubs which is part of their value. So it comes down to money alone. Based on my math I would have to play the same course a lot over the 6 months a year I am there to recover the costs of a membership and have never found it cost effective for me. I like to play a variety of courses with the various golf groups instead of the same one every day.

The only exception to this is if I lived there I might make the investment to Siam CC. Love the course and I do have friends that play regularly. It wouldn't be a great investment but assuming I got back a large proportion of the investment in 5 years it might be worth it.

And I agree that the yank bashing by scubascuba and finsbury was childish and unnecessary. Why it started or from what I haven't a clue and don't intend wasting time responding to them again. Odd how a person who is incapable of figuring out his own math for joining a club insults someone who was trying to add to his knowledge base.

[jimmybcool]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

Your opinion. Caddies make the game more fun sometimes. As to exercise, it's called a gym. Find one. use it.

The gym is boring, anyway this thread is about golf club membership. Do us all a favour and go to another thread. I really hope I don't have to play with anyone as obnoxious as you. You give Americans a bad name.

I'm the rude one? Perhaps you should reread your comments. Don't fret though. I won't respond to another post by you. Poor thing.

[GBHK]

I too find it unpleasant and unnecessary to hire caddies and it is one of the reasons I would not want to live in Thailand all the time. It's not a matter of penny pinching, I don't like to waste money on something I don't need or want. The other reason why I wouldn't buy a membership is that very few clubs have much life in them. One of the benefits of playing in a club is the services/privileges offered to members and hopefully some kind of exclusivity. Not too many clubs offer that in Thailand...

As to exercise, you're walking about 8km regardless of having caddies or not and if you really swing at the ball, it's better for your back and your game not to carry clubs. I always walk and carry outside of Thailand and I find it helps my game a bit not to have a bag on my back the whole round. One of these days when I'm 80, I might consider buying a trolley.

Some of you need to curtail your little yank/brit banter, it's pretty childish...

I can respect alternate opinions regarding caddies. I don't need them as I am capable of reading greens and finding my own ball. And capable of carrying my own bag if I must. But when a group gets 4 good caddies who fit into the banter of the group I find them fun to have around. If that makes them worth the money I can't say. To each his own.

I find the memberships in Thailand are mostly only for the benefit of reducing costs. I don't believe they offer the same type of club atmosphere provided in western clubs which is part of their value. So it comes down to money alone. Based on my math I would have to play the same course a lot over the 6 months a year I am there to recover the costs of a membership and have never found it cost effective for me. I like to play a variety of courses with the various golf groups instead of the same one every day.

The only exception to this is if I lived there I might make the investment to Siam CC. Love the course and I do have friends that play regularly. It wouldn't be a great investment but assuming I got back a large proportion of the investment in 5 years it might be worth it.

And I agree that the yank bashing by scubascuba and finsbury was childish and unnecessary. Why it started or from what I haven't a clue and don't intend wasting time responding to them again. Odd how a person who is incapable of figuring out his own math for joining a club insults someone who was trying to add to his knowledge base.

I agree that having caddies on occasion can be fun and they are certainly not paid a lot of money for the effort they put in, the problem lies in the fact that it's compulsory and if you play a few times a week, it adds up. You could buy a new set of clubs every year for the price you pay in caddies if you play regularly. I agree with you that golf membership in Thailand has to mostly be about money since there's little else, the funny part of it being that in order to make it worth it, you have to play a lot which in turns costs you more in caddie fees/tips. Then again, if one decides to play golf, one must accept that it's not a cheap activity.

[jimmybcool]

I too find it unpleasant and unnecessary to hire caddies and it is one of the reasons I would not want to live in Thailand all the time. It's not a matter of penny pinching, I don't like to waste money on something I don't need or want. The other reason why I wouldn't buy a membership is that very few clubs have much life in them. One of the benefits of playing in a club is the services/privileges offered to members and hopefully some kind of exclusivity. Not too many clubs offer that in Thailand...

As to exercise, you're walking about 8km regardless of having caddies or not and if you really swing at the ball, it's better for your back and your game not to carry clubs. I always walk and carry outside of Thailand and I find it helps my game a bit not to have a bag on my back the whole round. One of these days when I'm 80, I might consider buying a trolley.

Some of you need to curtail your little yank/brit banter, it's pretty childish...

I can respect alternate opinions regarding caddies. I don't need them as I am capable of reading greens and finding my own ball. And capable of carrying my own bag if I must. But when a group gets 4 good caddies who fit into the banter of the group I find them fun to have around. If that makes them worth the money I can't say. To each his own.

I find the memberships in Thailand are mostly only for the benefit of reducing costs. I don't believe they offer the same type of club atmosphere provided in western clubs which is part of their value. So it comes down to money alone. Based on my math I would have to play the same course a lot over the 6 months a year I am there to recover the costs of a membership and have never found it cost effective for me. I like to play a variety of courses with the various golf groups instead of the same one every day.

The only exception to this is if I lived there I might make the investment to Siam CC. Love the course and I do have friends that play regularly. It wouldn't be a great investment but assuming I got back a large proportion of the investment in 5 years it might be worth it.

And I agree that the yank bashing by scubascuba and finsbury was childish and unnecessary. Why it started or from what I haven't a clue and don't intend wasting time responding to them again. Odd how a person who is incapable of figuring out his own math for joining a club insults someone who was trying to add to his knowledge base.

I agree that having caddies on occasion can be fun and they are certainly not paid a lot of money for the effort they put in, the problem lies in the fact that it's compulsory and if you play a few times a week, it adds up. You could buy a new set of clubs every year for the price you pay in caddies if you play regularly. I agree with you that golf membership in Thailand has to mostly be about money since there's little else, the funny part of it being that in order to make it worth it, you have to play a lot which in turns costs you more in caddie fees/tips. Then again, if one decides to play golf, one must accept that it's not a cheap activity.

I never calculated the annual costs. But yeah, I play about 120 rounds a year there at let's say 600 baht per round caddie and tip for 72,000 baht. YIKES. That is a lot of upscale dinners in Pattaya. What really bugs me more though is courses with mandatory carts. Now, I HAVE to take them right now due to knee issues. But when I am healthy (which I hope is again soon following surgery) I like the option of walking the course. You get into a rhythm of the game. Worse still at Siam I must take a cart and it is cart path only. Double annoyance. And cost. If you get a caddy that doesn't listen you can find yourself without the right clubs all day.

But in the end golf is expensive.

On topic of course is the question of memberships. Always a gamble. A friend of mine who is a brit bookie tried to convince me to buy a Siam membership when they were closed to redo the course. If you've been there a while you know Siam used to be so poor no one wanted to play there. The memberships while they redid the course were 90,000 baht. Now they are over 200,000 baht. Note to self. If a british bookie suggests something where he has no personal interest pay attention.

[GBHK]

I despise playing golf with a cart and I've never had a good round doing this. I need the walk to the next shot to see the lines and angles slowly/properly and to think about what I'm going to do next or to cool off if I flubbed the shot. I never get any rhythm playing in a cart and avoid clubs that make it mandatory like the plague.

The way clubs are maintained and managed in Thailand, an extended membership is definitely a gamble. Had a friend who paid a couple of hundred thousand Baht at Loch Palm and after a few years they decided to slap on a 300 Baht green fee to members. Now, the fellow was looking at almost 1000baht every time he played even with a membership. For a guy that played around 200 rounds a year, it was not funny.

[jimmybcool]

I despise playing golf with a cart and I've never had a good round doing this. I need the walk to the next shot to see the lines and angles slowly/properly and to think about what I'm going to do next or to cool off if I flubbed the shot. I never get any rhythm playing in a cart and avoid clubs that make it mandatory like the plague.

The way clubs are maintained and managed in Thailand, an extended membership is definitely a gamble. Had a friend who paid a couple of hundred thousand Baht at Loch Palm and after a few years they decided to slap on a 300 Baht green fee to members. Now, the fellow was looking at almost 1000baht every time he played even with a membership. For a guy that played around 200 rounds a year, it was not funny.

I don't mind carts and it doesn't throw me off my game. But I have friends who are like you and I understand it. All I can say is this last two years with knee troubles thank god I can take one. I look like a cripple gimping to the greens and tee boxes but have managed so far to hold my handicap level. Doesn't hurt to swing just walk.

[scubascuba3]

We shouldn't really feel sorry for caddy's, they get mostly a minimum of 600 baht that's twice the minimum wage, apparently non Thai builders etc can earn 200 baht a day. Cost of living is a lot lower so 600 goes a long way. I like caddy's I just don't want or need one, but that's the law. Anyway this wasn't intended to be a caddy bashing thread as its not their fault its the law.

But if anyone has worked out how much golf would cost it would be £4k to £7k playing 3 times a week. I'm just not willing to pay that out of principal. So I'll need to do new sports whilst in Pattaya long term. Short term paying that is fine.

Edited April 8, 2014 by scubascuba3

[manarak]

I golf at courses around Pattaya with a PSC membership with the resident discount.

What I miss most golfing in Thailand is the sport. At home, I used to walk and to pull a trolley when competing or when playing casual, carrying my bag (10 forged steel-shaft blades). In Thailand I miss the physical exercise, and the carts take away a lot of the social interaction too, can't talk too much because the course is done in 3 to 3 hours a half and idle times are minimal, and there is no time to talk while walking because there is no walking :-(

The second thing which I find a bit disturbing is that there are no options for doing away with the caddies - I don't need a caddie, and they always cost 250 baht fee plus 300 baht tip, which is not nothing.

Playing once a week the cost is negligible, but playing three times a week, it adds up over a year to almost 90000 baht...

These fees are an obstacle to anyone who wants to play often but has to watch finances as well.

All the above suggests a "different" golf course could be successful in Pattaya - maybe one with 2x 18 holes, offering both: play without caddie and without cart, and play with caddie and cart, alternating the offer between both courses every day.

Members could just pay an annual membership and play without paying anything else if they are not using carts or caddies... Just an idea !!

Edited April 8, 2014 by manarak

[scubascuba3]

I golf at courses around Pattaya with a PSC membership with the resident discount.

What I miss most golfing in Thailand is the sport. At home, I used to walk and to pull a trolley when competing or when playing casual, carrying my bag (10 forged steel-shaft blades). In Thailand I miss the physical exercise, and the carts take away a lot of the social interaction too, can't talk too much because the course is done in 3 to 3 hours a half and idle times are minimal, and there is no time to talk while walking because there is no walking :-(

The second thing which I find a bit disturbing is that there are no options for doing away with the caddies - I don't need a caddie, and they always cost 250 baht fee plus 300 baht tip, which is not nothing.

Playing once a week the cost is negligible, but playing three times a week, it adds up over a year to almost 90000 baht...

These fees are an obstacle to anyone who wants to play often but has to watch finances as well.

All the above suggests a "different" golf course could be successful in Pattaya - maybe one with 2x 18 holes, offering both: play without caddie and without cart, and play with caddie and cart, alternating the offer between both courses every day.

Members could just pay an annual membership and play without paying anything else if they are not using carts or caddies... Just an idea !!

Good point Manarak, if only there was a course where you could choose to not have a caddy. I even thought the other day that the farang could get together and buy land and build a course and set their own rules.

My ex course in England was a Jewish course built because other courses didn't want Jews as members, crazy but that's how it was back around 1969. So my point is if enough farang felt strongly they could build their own course or buy one and go from there.....but the obstacle is I think its the law to have a caddy although it would be good if anyone knowing the law could confirm.

And I agree walking is much better for talking, guys on carts tend to race off but they can walk if they want.

Edited April 8, 2014 by scubascuba3

[GBHK]

The caddy situation is the same in most developing country and it is true that caddies usually do a good job of repairing the damage that many golfers never bother to repair. It passes some of the maintenance cost to the customers. I doubt that someone could open a course in a tourist area without having compulsory caddies, it's not a good idea to run a business that will not benefit much to the local community. The few courses in Thailand where it isn't compulsory are very low end. To be fair, I don't think that the customers who don't want caddies are the ones that most clubs would want to have as their customer base.

[scubascuba3]

I don't think that the customers who don't want caddies are the ones that most clubs would want to have as their customer base.

That would be most people I've played with in Thailand.

On the subject of bunkers we found that some caddies didn't rake bunkers intentionally and would need reminding sometimes

[GBHK]

I don't think that the customers who don't want caddies are the ones that most clubs would want to have as their customer base.

That would be most people I've played with in Thailand.

On the subject of bunkers we found that some caddies didn't rake bunkers intentionally and would need reminding sometimes

Interesting that you are capable of divining people's intentions but can't see the obvious about golf courses. Just like in any jobs, some are better than others but overall courses in Thailand are well maintained. Caddies do a much better job of repairing damage overall than golfers do. The idea that a bunch of farang could buy land(technically illegal) in Thailand, develop and maintain a course, make money and go against what is culturally acceptable and be successful is illogical. We'll be seeing flying pigs long before this happens...

[socksy01]

Golfs better without a caddy, its called exercise. Unfortunately no chance of that in Thailand, so back on topic..would be good to hear who has done the sums.

Your opinion. Caddies make the game more fun sometimes. As to exercise, it's called a gym. Find one. use it.

Golf and exercise in the same sentence...55555555555555555555555555555555555555

My 77 year old father would dispute the fact that Golf is not exercise and the sad fact is that he still hits sub 45 for nine holes and my brother is a 5 handicap. Still I like the 'excercise' with my military golf I cover more than a few kilometres (Signed 'The Black Sheep of the Family)