UDD plans post-Songkran battle

[givenall]

Just get it over with already. All the kids need to meet at the playground of their choice at 3pm and have a fist fight, pre-school style.

Yeah agree let the winner take all till another 5 year and start all over again.

greedy rich families cant have enough. can some tell them there enough for both side to be stolen

[In Town]

1. "The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.". Really? There's a couple of things seriously wrong with this sentiment. Firstly, the HRC is totally apolitical and relies on decades of profound thought and formulation of what human rights are. Secondly, he dismisses the HRC while reaching out to the UN, Geneva, Western governments, and "international intervention". Do you think for one millisecond any country, the UN or Geneva will entertain helping any government that dismisses the HRC? North Korea maybe?

2. "Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC". Really? Ya don't say! But I do wonder why he did admit that PTP is obstructing international justice.

3."​Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.". Ok, so he recognises the redshirts are always too drunk. Good. That's the first step. Strange though to recommend the redshirts boycott themselves (allowing that payed for votes are not true democracy).

4. "Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped." Really? Of the two sides, which side uses the most bombs, drive-by shootings, and sabotage??? If there is to be one side labelled the Taliban, it is the reds.

5. "May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand." Really? Then what, bomb them?

6. "We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks." Ok, so you'd support international sanctions against a convicted criminal who fled the country? (and is now in Dubai).

7. ...... I could go on.

Tough talk some of it, but very hollow....ridiculous all of it.

Where does this verbal dairrhea come from? Who could think this stuff up and have the gall to say it out loud?

1. The HRC is in no way apolitical. But if you feel this way, and think the HRC will be supported by international human rights groups and the UN, then you should have no problem with them sending monitors, right? They will clearly support your position, right? Or is it that international HR norms are really different than Thai human rights?

2. Agreed. PTP is not pressing the case out of concern it will provoke a coup, but that is bad strategy. So we agree on this one.

3. No. He is recommending they boycott the Thai beer companies funding Suthep's astroturf rallies.

4. Which side? The PDRC, the smart (who happily run over motorcyclists that dare impede their way), and parts of the military. Check your facts.

5. No, shame them, like they do the oligarchs in russia and burma.

6. Sure, why not.

7. but thanks for stopping now.

[TheReporter]

Thailand is heading towards a doom state of affairs. Karma is driving the country and its people there, because Thailand has mistreated its minorities for too long.

[bulekee]

Rubbish begets rubbish

"...in order to achieve the pro-government group’s goals.....Thai Red Shirts vow 'final fight' to defend Yingluck....show of support for the crisis-mired premier"

The above quotes, all a subtle put-down of the event being reported upon.

>Pro-Government? - Wrong..Pro-Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy

>"group"?.....Those representing the electoral majority gathering in their thousands, are a "group"?

>"Defending Yingluck"?...The old PAD-Dem mantra of trying to separate her and the PTP from its majority electoral base...They are not defending 'Yingluck"...They are defending their votes and the Govt. they selected. The anti-democrats are up against an electoral majority...Not Yingluck.

>"Crisis-mired premier"?.....Coup-intended unelectable political forces do not 'mire a premier?....Advocating their anti-democratic vision does not reflect badly on a premier as this quote implies....Quite the reverse if one thinks it through.

The following comments by Amsterdam to the rally last night give an insight to what is transpiring at that event. Some paraphrasing those comments here:

• Suthep is disqualified from using the word “Reform”
• Av is disqualified from using the word “Democracy
• Const. Court is disqualified from calling itself a “court”
• Prayuth cannot speak about “Peace”
• The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.
• We are getting tired of a permanent coup of the DP and Army against law.
• Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC
• The coup we face now, is a continuation of the violence of 2010
• The essential reform that needs to occur is a return to the constitution of 1997
• No reform is possible without reform of the Thai military.
• Who does Prayuth think he is, lecturing us about democracy and Government.
• Have any Red Shirts voted for Prayuth?
• Since when is Prayuth a Minister of the Government.
• The rule of law must be reformed in Thailand
• Reforming the rule of law is not just a Red Shirt issue. But that of Thailand as a whole. All parties must recognize past mistakes.
• Many people ask, “How can we change Thailand”?
• Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.
• Have to ask the DP how is it that two men accused of murder, can lead change and reform
• What is it about Thailand that people charged with murder can block people from voting.
• Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped.
• The Thai Taliban is more dangerous because the West does not understand who they are.
• We are continuing representations to the Geneva Inter-Parliamentary Union.
• We will seek to condemn the CC over section 232 regarding ‘collective guilt’. Hearings have been scheduled.
• We will take international action here, regarding the CC and NACC.
• This International intervention only a beginning.
• I recognize all of those gathered here and Red Shirts everywhere in Thailand, that we are at a serious moment of Thai history. For that reason we begin new initiatives in the International arena.
• We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks.
• May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand.
• We will ask Western Govts. To seize assets and prevent anti-democratic functionaries from leaving Thailand. Will severely curtail AV’s frequent trips to London.
• Red Shirts need to remember, they are not alone in their battle for Democracy.
• In the coming weeks, the DP will attempt to seize power, because they cannot win an election.
• The only enemy the Thai army can defeat is democracy and justice.
• We need to understand that the army and DP are watching to see the size and scope of every RS demonstration.
• I salute you for coming this weekend and my prayers are with you during this dark chapter of Thai history.

This is a picture of Mr. Amsterdam:

This is how the Red shirt protest site looks this morning:

By the way, this picture shows the "RED" spirit!!!

[FangFerang]

' Fight ', ' Battle ', ' Civil War '. The reds Thesaurus must be the smallest, thinnest book in the world but no matter the Thais don't read much anyway.

Maybe Jatuporn should produce it in comic / cartoon book version.

Agreed, however a recent poll showed a wide majority fear a civil war from all these shenanigans on both sides.

Things are at a tipping point, where both sides have valid points and refuse to compromise.

This recipe is toxic and incendiary.

[rametindallas]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

Did you think that up all by yourself?

If Thaksin were out of the picture, we would be going after the next worst crook in Thailand. Don't misjudge people you don't even know. Thaksin really showed up on people-with-a-conscience's radar with his war on drugs and he has been on a terror streak ever since. You can't find another Thai in modern history with his record of destruction. It's really not hard for anyone with morals to see the evils he has done and the evils he his currently perpetrating. Says a lot about you that you defend him.

BTW, the common people will always be exploited; everywhere in the world. Most everyone in the US is exploited. The grand battle is to see if Thai people do the exploiting of Thai people or whether it's multinationals, as represented by Thaksin, who exploit Thai people. Thaksin is a member of Carlyle Group, Google them and while you're at it google Trilateral Commission, Bilderburg Group, Trans Pacific Partnership. Thaksin is ready to sell Thailand out to the multinationals if they let him have the power.

[bulekee]

Which one is the dummy ??????????????

[Scamper]

For those who are quoting Robert Amsterdam as if he were some sort of prime definitive source, Amsterdam has been on Thaksin's handsomely paid payroll since 2010 to provide whatever wild propaganda Thaksin sees fit for Western ears. People who see Amsterdam's " list " will likely just scan it, which is probably the intended effect. I suggest reading it in microscopic detail. It is as wild as any Ko Tee red shirt radio programme. It de-legitimizes the Constitutional Court - among other " democratic " things - and it proceeds to vent on every wild belief that Thaksin or Jatuporn has ever had in the last ten years. It's ludicrous. But it succeeds on the uneducated.

" We are here to settle the bill with the elite," he said, adding the Red Shirts were would not be deterred by any crackdown on their movement. " " It is better to die than to be slaves," he said. "

This is the rhetoric of the UDD. The UDD is a movement that needs conflict to survive. If it's not there, they have to create it. It is a movement founded on hate. Prior to 2011 the UDD campaigned on democracy. Many buildings were looted and set fire to in their quest towards democracy. After the 2011 election the UDD had the wind taken out of its sails. It could no longer fight for democracy because they already presumably had it. So now they have shifted their attention and wrath on the judicial process. That's their battle. And they are back with the Thaksin catchword " elite ". " Elite " is a catchword so effective, only a true billionaire could come up with it. The movement has also suffered a loss - their core constituency, the farmers - are gone. They do not have the numbers or the enthusiasm.

So the foundation of the UDD's argument is - go after the judicial process and call the people who support it " elite ".

[nong38]

Where do all these rallies lead? Who knows, well best have another rally then eh! Cant beat a good rally, wonder how much a licence to hold costs, could be a real money earner.

Now then how many more rallies before the "Final Battle" and if that goes down well we could follow that up with "Final Battle 2015" any other names for sequels should be sent to Jatoporn-Suthep productions.

[than]

"...in order to achieve the pro-government group’s goals.....Thai Red Shirts vow 'final fight' to defend Yingluck....show of support for the crisis-mired premier"

The above quotes, all a subtle put-down of the event being reported upon.

>Pro-Government? - Wrong..Pro-Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy

>"group"?.....Those representing the electoral majority gathering in their thousands, are a "group"?

>"Defending Yingluck"?...The old PAD-Dem mantra of trying to separate her and the PTP from its majority electoral base...They are not defending 'Yingluck"...They are defending their votes and the Govt. they selected. The anti-democrats are up against an electoral majority...Not Yingluck.

>"Crisis-mired premier"?.....Coup-intended unelectable political forces do not 'mire a premier?....Advocating their anti-democratic vision does not reflect badly on a premier as this quote implies....Quite the reverse if one thinks it through.

The following comments by Amsterdam to the rally last night give an insight to what is transpiring at that event. Some paraphrasing those comments here:

• Suthep is disqualified from using the word “Reform”
• Av is disqualified from using the word “Democracy
• Const. Court is disqualified from calling itself a “court”
• Prayuth cannot speak about “Peace”
• The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.
• We are getting tired of a permanent coup of the DP and Army against law.
• Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC
• The coup we face now, is a continuation of the violence of 2010
• The essential reform that needs to occur is a return to the constitution of 1997
• No reform is possible without reform of the Thai military.
• Who does Prayuth think he is, lecturing us about democracy and Government.
• Have any Red Shirts voted for Prayuth?
• Since when is Prayuth a Minister of the Government.
• The rule of law must be reformed in Thailand
• Reforming the rule of law is not just a Red Shirt issue. But that of Thailand as a whole. All parties must recognize past mistakes.
• Many people ask, “How can we change Thailand”?
• Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.
• Have to ask the DP how is it that two men accused of murder, can lead change and reform
• What is it about Thailand that people charged with murder can block people from voting.
• Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped.
• The Thai Taliban is more dangerous because the West does not understand who they are.
• We are continuing representations to the Geneva Inter-Parliamentary Union.
• We will seek to condemn the CC over section 232 regarding ‘collective guilt’. Hearings have been scheduled.
• We will take international action here, regarding the CC and NACC.
• This International intervention only a beginning.
• I recognize all of those gathered here and Red Shirts everywhere in Thailand, that we are at a serious moment of Thai history. For that reason we begin new initiatives in the International arena.
• We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks.
• May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand.
• We will ask Western Govts. To seize assets and prevent anti-democratic functionaries from leaving Thailand. Will severely curtail AV’s frequent trips to London.
• Red Shirts need to remember, they are not alone in their battle for Democracy.
• In the coming weeks, the DP will attempt to seize power, because they cannot win an election.
• The only enemy the Thai army can defeat is democracy and justice.
• We need to understand that the army and DP are watching to see the size and scope of every RS demonstration.
• I salute you for coming this weekend and my prayers are with you during this dark chapter of Thai history.

This is a picture of Mr. Amsterdam:

This is how the Red shirt protest site looks this morning:

By the way, this picture shows the "RED" spirit!!!

But in Thai law, foreigner are not allow to participate political rally.......double standard for Amsterdam.....?

[Seastallion]

1. "The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.". Really? There's a couple of things seriously wrong with this sentiment. Firstly, the HRC is totally apolitical and relies on decades of profound thought and formulation of what human rights are. Secondly, he dismisses the HRC while reaching out to the UN, Geneva, Western governments, and "international intervention". Do you think for one millisecond any country, the UN or Geneva will entertain helping any government that dismisses the HRC? North Korea maybe?

2. "Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC". Really? Ya don't say! But I do wonder why he did admit that PTP is obstructing international justice.

3."​Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.". Ok, so he recognises the redshirts are always too drunk. Good. That's the first step. Strange though to recommend the redshirts boycott themselves (allowing that payed for votes are not true democracy).

4. "Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped." Really? Of the two sides, which side uses the most bombs, drive-by shootings, and sabotage??? If there is to be one side labelled the Taliban, it is the reds.

5. "May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand." Really? Then what, bomb them?

6. "We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks." Ok, so you'd support international sanctions against a convicted criminal who fled the country? (and is now in Dubai).

7. ...... I could go on.

Tough talk some of it, but very hollow....ridiculous all of it.

Where does this verbal dairrhea come from? Who could think this stuff up and have the gall to say it out loud?

1. The HRC is in no way apolitical. But if you feel this way, and think the HRC will be supported by international human rights groups and the UN, then you should have no problem with them sending monitors, right? They will clearly support your position, right? Or is it that international HR norms are really different than Thai human rights?

2. Agreed. PTP is not pressing the case out of concern it will provoke a coup, but that is bad strategy. So we agree on this one.

3. No. He is recommending they boycott the Thai beer companies funding Suthep's astroturf rallies.

4. Which side? The PDRC, the smart (who happily run over motorcyclists that dare impede their way), and parts of the military. Check your facts.

5. No, shame them, like they do the oligarchs in russia and burma.

6. Sure, why not.

7. but thanks for stopping now.

1. Read what he said. "HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand." ie he does not want international norms. I would welcome international monitors.

2. I'm not convinced of your reasoning (excuse), but fine, you agree.

3. He didn't phrase it very well. Lawyers should choose their words carefully, especially lawyers dabbling n political issues.

4. The facts are clear, redshirts like to bomb their opponants.

​5. You say shame, I reckon assassinate.

6. Please say again....you'd support Thaksin facing international sanctions and justice? Good...we are getting somewhere.

[sweatalot]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The problem with democracy is, that it works as it should only, when the majority is decent and well educated,

if this is not the case we will always have a ruling of the lower educated or indecent masses

[Wombat6]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The Main "fat cat" who bends the law Is Thaksin...

Just before his sale of Shin Corp, He/ Government changed the law so that he would not have to pay Capital Gains Tax

His Sister (Yingluck) was investigated for selling her shares (at a profit) in Shin Corp just before Shin Corp sale was announced ..The investigation was about insider Trading...Information from Guess who). No further action was taken with the investigation....who ordered it stopped/ Guess who.

Yingluck sold shares in Ample rich at cost to avoid Income Tax...paper transfer only and dividends etc finished up in a Bank account of Thaksins wife Pojamon.

Yingluck was investigated to explain why in 2009/2010, 150M Baht was deposited in one of her Bank accounts and 166m was withdrawn (144 m in one day)...Where did that money come from (Big Brother ??) (Payment for support in Elections ?).

Since Thaksin was ousted, The Prime Ministers have been Proxies of ThaKsin which is beyond doubt...ask the man himself...he is so smug he has admitted it.

If Amsterdam is so brilliant, why is he consorting with a convicted criminal who jumped Bail. In a lot of modern countries ....Consorting with a criminal is an Offence./

"In Town" has made this post and attracted a "like" from the idiotic biased frequent poster "Fresian boppe" or whatever his name...shows the common mentatity.

[In Town]

1. "The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.". Really? There's a couple of things seriously wrong with this sentiment. Firstly, the HRC is totally apolitical and relies on decades of profound thought and formulation of what human rights are. Secondly, he dismisses the HRC while reaching out to the UN, Geneva, Western governments, and "international intervention". Do you think for one millisecond any country, the UN or Geneva will entertain helping any government that dismisses the HRC? North Korea maybe?

2. "Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC". Really? Ya don't say! But I do wonder why he did admit that PTP is obstructing international justice.

3."​Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.". Ok, so he recognises the redshirts are always too drunk. Good. That's the first step. Strange though to recommend the redshirts boycott themselves (allowing that payed for votes are not true democracy).

4. "Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped." Really? Of the two sides, which side uses the most bombs, drive-by shootings, and sabotage??? If there is to be one side labelled the Taliban, it is the reds.

5. "May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand." Really? Then what, bomb them?

6. "We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks." Ok, so you'd support international sanctions against a convicted criminal who fled the country? (and is now in Dubai).

7. ...... I could go on.

Tough talk some of it, but very hollow....ridiculous all of it.

Where does this verbal dairrhea come from? Who could think this stuff up and have the gall to say it out loud?

1. The HRC is in no way apolitical. But if you feel this way, and think the HRC will be supported by international human rights groups and the UN, then you should have no problem with them sending monitors, right? They will clearly support your position, right? Or is it that international HR norms are really different than Thai human rights?

2. Agreed. PTP is not pressing the case out of concern it will provoke a coup, but that is bad strategy. So we agree on this one.

3. No. He is recommending they boycott the Thai beer companies funding Suthep's astroturf rallies.

4. Which side? The PDRC, the smart (who happily run over motorcyclists that dare impede their way), and parts of the military. Check your facts.

5. No, shame them, like they do the oligarchs in russia and burma.

6. Sure, why not.

7. but thanks for stopping now.

1. Read what he said. "HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand." ie he does not want international norms. I would welcome international monitors.

2. I'm not convinced of your reasoning (excuse), but fine, you agree.

3. He didn't phrase it very well. Lawyers should choose their words carefully, especially lawyers dabbling n political issues.

4. The facts are clear, redshirts like to bomb their opponants.

​5. You say shame, I reckon assassinate.

6. Please say again....you'd support Thaksin facing international sanctions and justice? Good...we are getting somewhere.

Yes, I'm for Thaksin getting any form of justice. Also, Suthep, Abhisit, and a host of others.

[In Town]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The Main "fat cat" who bends the law Is Thaksin...

Just before his sale of Shin Corp, He/ Government changed the law so that he would not have to pay Capital Gains Tax

His Sister (Yingluck) was investigated for selling her shares (at a profit) in Shin Corp just before Shin Corp sale was announced ..The investigation was about insider Trading...Information from Guess who). No further action was taken with the investigation....who ordered it stopped/ Guess who.

Yingluck sold shares in Ample rich at cost to avoid Income Tax...paper transfer only and dividends etc finished up in a Bank account of Thaksins wife Pojamon.

Yingluck was investigated to explain why in 2009/2010, 150M Baht was deposited in one of her Bank accounts and 166m was withdrawn (144 m in one day)...Where did that money come from (Big Brother ??) (Payment for support in Elections ?).

Since Thaksin was ousted, The Prime Ministers have been Proxies of ThaKsin which is beyond doubt...ask the man himself...he is so smug he has admitted it.

If Amsterdam is so brilliant, why is he consorting with a convicted criminal who jumped Bail. In a lot of modern countries ....Consorting with a criminal is an Offence./

"In Town" has made this post and attracted a "like" from the idiotic biased frequent poster "Fresian boppe" or whatever his name...shows the common mentatity.

You are a perfect example. I talk about democracy, you talk about Thaksin. I ask if anyone else can be elected by the red shirts, and you talk about Thaksin. I talk about justice for the millions of poor Thais excluded from democratic participation, and you talk about Thaksin. I talk about double standards and politicisation and bias in the "independent" judiciary and you talk about Thaksin. So predictable.

[smedly]

For those who are quoting Robert Amsterdam as if he were some sort of prime definitive source, Amsterdam has been on Thaksin's handsomely paid payroll since 2010 to provide whatever wild propaganda Thaksin sees fit for Western ears. People who see Amsterdam's " list " will likely just scan it, which is probably the intended effect. I suggest reading it in microscopic detail. It is as wild as any Ko Tee red shirt radio programme. It de-legitimizes the Constitutional Court - among other " democratic " things - and it proceeds to vent on every wild belief that Thaksin or Jatuporn has ever had in the last ten years. It's ludicrous. But it succeeds on the uneducated.

" We are here to settle the bill with the elite," he said, adding the Red Shirts were would not be deterred by any crackdown on their movement. " " It is better to die than to be slaves," he said. "

This is the rhetoric of the UDD. The UDD is a movement that needs conflict to survive. If it's not there, they have to create it. It is a movement founded on hate. Prior to 2011 the UDD campaigned on democracy. Many buildings were looted and set fire to in their quest towards democracy. After the 2011 election the UDD had the wind taken out of its sails. It could no longer fight for democracy because they already presumably had it. So now they have shifted their attention and wrath on the judicial process. That's their battle. And they are back with the Thaksin catchword " elite ". " Elite " is a catchword so effective, only a true billionaire could come up with it. The movement has also suffered a loss - their core constituency, the farmers - are gone. They do not have the numbers or the enthusiasm.

So the foundation of the UDD's argument is - go after the judicial process and call the people who support it " elite ".

another great post, one of my biggest downfalls would be my literacy skills , I've noticed a few extremely good articulate posters on TVF and you are one of them ......well put and well said

Over the last almost 3 years we have heard the buzz words as I call them that Thaksin and his paid terrorist use or have used

it started with Reconciliation (which is no longer applicable) Amnesty - democracy - coup - elite - elitist, overthrow etc which must be used in every red speech in order the brainwash people into thinking there is a just cause somewhere in the middle of it

Smart people ignore the rhetoric and see it for what it is, a country wide mafia come terrorist group that only has interest in corruption - money - power and greed at any cost, Thaksin agenda might be slightly different driven by saving face and revenge at any cost

I hope in the not too distant future we will find out where all the money went and those involved will be investigated convicted and jailed

[In Town]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The problem with democracy is, that it works as it should only, when the majority is decent and well educated,

if this is not the case we will always have a ruling of the lower educated or indecent masses

Hilarious. But at least you are explicit in your rejection of democracy. A true tory.

[Dogmatix]

What happened to the 200,000 to 500,000 they were quoting as their expected number of protesters. It seems that either Thaksin is tired if paying them or the people are tired of supporting a corrupt gov. I guess YL messed up pretty bad when she failed to pay the farmers.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It looks like Thaksin's legendary meanness got in the way again. For the Ayudhya rally they fell at least 90% short of the target of 500,000 because Thaksin tried to force the PT MPs to recruit and finance 2,000 red shirts each to make up the 500k. The same thing must have happened again despite Thaksin sending his cousin, Chaiyasit who so incompetent as Army Chief that T himself fired him, around the country to beat the war drums and recruit cannon fodder.

Numbers in pics look less than ever the low end of estimates from Paradorn which was 30,000. Perhaps is saving his shekels to finance the mother of all rallies when his clone is forced to step down. We learned not to underestimate him and the red shirts in 2010. It ain't over until the fat lady sings (or the thin lady sobs).

[AleG]

The Main "fat cat" who bends the law Is Thaksin...

Just before his sale of Shin Corp, He/ Government changed the law so that he would not have to pay Capital Gains Tax

His Sister (Yingluck) was investigated for selling her shares (at a profit) in Shin Corp just before Shin Corp sale was announced ..The investigation was about insider Trading...Information from Guess who). No further action was taken with the investigation....who ordered it stopped/ Guess who.

Yingluck sold shares in Ample rich at cost to avoid Income Tax...paper transfer only and dividends etc finished up in a Bank account of Thaksins wife Pojamon.

Yingluck was investigated to explain why in 2009/2010, 150M Baht was deposited in one of her Bank accounts and 166m was withdrawn (144 m in one day)...Where did that money come from (Big Brother ??) (Payment for support in Elections ?).

Since Thaksin was ousted, The Prime Ministers have been Proxies of ThaKsin which is beyond doubt...ask the man himself...he is so smug he has admitted it.

If Amsterdam is so brilliant, why is he consorting with a convicted criminal who jumped Bail. In a lot of modern countries ....Consorting with a criminal is an Offence./

"In Town" has made this post and attracted a "like" from the idiotic biased frequent poster "Fresian boppe" or whatever his name...shows the common mentatity.

You are a perfect example. I talk about democracy, you talk about Thaksin. I ask if anyone else can be elected by the red shirts, and you talk about Thaksin. I talk about justice for the millions of poor Thais excluded from democratic participation, and you talk about Thaksin. I talk about double standards and politicisation and bias in the "independent" judiciary and you talk about Thaksin. So predictable.

Do a little experiment, find a group of Red Shirts, tell them to forget about Thaksin and his sister and find some other candidates to vote for. Let us know about the results.

[Dogmatix]

It's funny that that the government (across the water) hired Robert Amsterdam to address the red shirt rally and criticise the Thai courts, considering their order to deport Satish Seghal who is at least a resident of Thailand expressing his own opinions. I hope that he will be blacklisted and deported, if he ever attempts to enter Thailand again.

On the other hand his comments about Prayuth must have earned him some very powerful enemies in Thailand. So it might be more interesting to let him enter the country and see what happens.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Dogmatix]

Fryslan boppe. Re list of Robert Amsterdam's paraphrased comments. I hope it's OK to select points from your post rather than reprinting the entire list again. If not I apologize and mods may delete.

Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.

LOL. Lao Khao and Yaa Tong still OK then. They can't afford beer anyway.

Have to ask the DP how is it that two men accused of murder, can lead change and reform.

Also need to ask PT how a woman and a man charged with murder, Yingluck and Chalerm, can be PM and deputy PM.

We will ask Western Govts. To seize assets and prevent anti-democratic functionaries from leaving Thailand. Will severely curtail AV’s frequent trips to London.

Amsterdam correctly pointed out in the past that Abhisit is a British citizen. So how could this stop him going to London?

This International intervention only a beginning.

Yawn. More legal bills for Thaksin which he will probably never pay but not a snow ball’s chance in hell of any interest from ICJ or any other international bodies. They have more serious matters on their hands.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Dogmatix]

I wonder if even the rank and file reds still believe that Robert Amsterdam can achieve any judicial victories for Thaksin in the international arena after his last attempt with the ICJ failed miserably.

I suppose they were short of speakers willing to go on their stage even for money, so they paid a farang lackey to foam at the mouth via Skype in desperation, in spite of their dire warnings against foreigners supporting the PDRC rallies.

[marcusd]

"...in order to achieve the pro-government group’s goals.....Thai Red Shirts vow 'final fight' to defend Yingluck....show of support for the crisis-mired premier"

The above quotes, all a subtle put-down of the event being reported upon.

>Pro-Government? - Wrong..Pro-Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy

>"group"?.....Those representing the electoral majority gathering in their thousands, are a "group"?

>"Defending Yingluck"?...The old PAD-Dem mantra of trying to separate her and the PTP from its majority electoral base...They are not defending 'Yingluck"...They are defending their votes and the Govt. they selected. The anti-democrats are up against an electoral majority...Not Yingluck.

>"Crisis-mired premier"?.....Coup-intended unelectable political forces do not 'mire a premier?....Advocating their anti-democratic vision does not reflect badly on a premier as this quote implies....Quite the reverse if one thinks it through.

The following comments by Amsterdam to the rally last night give an insight to what is transpiring at that event. Some paraphrasing those comments here:

• Suthep is disqualified from using the word “Reform”
• Av is disqualified from using the word “Democracy
• Const. Court is disqualified from calling itself a “court”
• Prayuth cannot speak about “Peace”
• The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.
• We are getting tired of a permanent coup of the DP and Army against law.
• Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC
• The coup we face now, is a continuation of the violence of 2010
• The essential reform that needs to occur is a return to the constitution of 1997
• No reform is possible without reform of the Thai military.
• Who does Prayuth think he is, lecturing us about democracy and Government.
• Have any Red Shirts voted for Prayuth?
• Since when is Prayuth a Minister of the Government.
• The rule of law must be reformed in Thailand
• Reforming the rule of law is not just a Red Shirt issue. But that of Thailand as a whole. All parties must recognize past mistakes.
• Many people ask, “How can we change Thailand”?
• Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.
• Have to ask the DP how is it that two men accused of murder, can lead change and reform
• What is it about Thailand that people charged with murder can block people from voting.
• Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped.
• The Thai Taliban is more dangerous because the West does not understand who they are.
• We are continuing representations to the Geneva Inter-Parliamentary Union.
• We will seek to condemn the CC over section 232 regarding ‘collective guilt’. Hearings have been scheduled.
• We will take international action here, regarding the CC and NACC.
• This International intervention only a beginning.
• I recognize all of those gathered here and Red Shirts everywhere in Thailand, that we are at a serious moment of Thai history. For that reason we begin new initiatives in the International arena.
• We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks.
• May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand.
• We will ask Western Govts. To seize assets and prevent anti-democratic functionaries from leaving Thailand. Will severely curtail AV’s frequent trips to London.
• Red Shirts need to remember, they are not alone in their battle for Democracy.
• In the coming weeks, the DP will attempt to seize power, because they cannot win an election.
• The only enemy the Thai army can defeat is democracy and justice.
• We need to understand that the army and DP are watching to see the size and scope of every RS demonstration.
• I salute you for coming this weekend and my prayers are with you during this dark chapter of Thai history.

is your name really THAKSIN?

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Seastallion]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The problem with democracy is, that it works as it should only, when the majority is decent and well educated,

if this is not the case we will always have a ruling of the lower educated or indecent masses

Hilarious. But at least you are explicit in your rejection of democracy. A true tory.

On the contrary, democracy is by definition majority rule. If the majority are uneducated, then rule is based on decisions of the uneducated. Does that make sense for the good of the country?

Lets take the micro-example, a family of Mum, Dad, and 3 children, Should the desires of the children govern what the family does? Should the family have chocolate ice cream for dinner every night, and pizza at other times? Move the scenario forward 20 years, and the kids are now educated. They tell Mum and Dad they want their 5+ veges per day, that Dad should dump his gas-guzzler car for an economic one, and suggest Mum take a 2 km walk every evening. Which scenario makes for a successful family?

[northernjohn]

Thai Red Shirts vow 'final fight' to defend Yingluck

So much for defending Democracy. When your pay check comes from a dictator and you are told to forget the Democracy crap and defend his sister you do as your leader tells you to do.

[northernjohn]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The problem with democracy is, that it works as it should only, when the majority is decent and well educated,

if this is not the case we will always have a ruling of the lower educated or indecent masses

Hilarious. But at least you are explicit in your rejection of democracy. A true tory.

On the contrary, democracy is by definition majority rule. If the majority are uneducated, then rule is based on decisions of the uneducated. Does that make sense for the good of the country?

Lets take the micro-example, a family of Mum, Dad, and 3 children, Should the desires of the children govern what the family does? Should the family have chocolate ice cream for dinner every night, and pizza at other times? Move the scenario forward 20 years, and the kids are now educated. They tell Mum and Dad they want their 5+ veges per day, that Dad should dump his gas-guzzler car for an economic one, and suggest Mum take a 2 km walk every evening. Which scenario makes for a successful family?

Are you saying we do not have a democracy government. they represent only 48% of the population. Which is it we have one or we don't have one?

Question requires only one word answer.

Any more and you are trying to justify it which if the answer is an honest one needs no justification.

My answer is No.

[billd766]

""This will be the final fight," Red Shirt chairman Jatuporn Prompan told the rally, which is due to end on Monday.

"We are here to settle the bill with the elite," he said, adding the Red Shirts were would not be deterred by any crackdown on their movement.
"It is better to die than to be slaves," he said."

Will Jatuporn be leading his illegal rag tag "army" from the front this time or like ALL the Red Shirt/UDD leaders will he be leading from as far in the rear as he can be?

Will he also accept the full responsibility for what happens in the same manner that Nattwut Saikua "accepted" the responsibility for burning down parts of Bangkok?

[sirchai]

“Only the dead have seen the end of war.”

[northernjohn]

More importantly, Mr Jatuporn announced that the UDD will stage a mass gathering again after April 18, and asked supporters to prepare for a political fight, which may be the ‘final battle,’ in order to achieve the pro-government group’s goals. He expressed confidence that their fight will not end in failure.

First of what does he consider a mass gathering?

Secondly what do red shirts know about Democracy? I noticed he is now dropping that Democracy claim and just saying back the existing Government no reason given and last what do they have to do to prepare for a political battle when they don't know what politics is. They think it is get some money given to them every time they vote and go to a rally.

The UDD chair also slammed PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban for intent to install a neutral prime minister, urging the Red Shirt demonstrators to oppose the demand because it was through undemocratic means.

Jeez but it hurts to admit he is right.

Well I guess there is a first time for every thing.

[In Town]

Amsterdam is brilliant. He describes Thai democrats struggling to overcome the oppression of rich fat cats who bend the law for their own interest. Your only response is "Thaksin". If Thaksin and all his kin were gone would it then be okay with you if the red shirts elected someone else (they are the majority, after all)? I doubt it. Their candidate would then be "follower of Thaksin" or "successor of Thaksin". No matter what, you will never be happy with majority rule, because it will always return someone who doesn't agree with your selfish desire to exploit the poor.

The problem with democracy is, that it works as it should only, when the majority is decent and well educated,

if this is not the case we will always have a ruling of the lower educated or indecent masses

Hilarious. But at least you are explicit in your rejection of democracy. A true tory.

On the contrary, democracy is by definition majority rule. If the majority are uneducated, then rule is based on decisions of the uneducated. Does that make sense for the good of the country?

Lets take the micro-example, a family of Mum, Dad, and 3 children, Should the desires of the children govern what the family does? Should the family have chocolate ice cream for dinner every night, and pizza at other times? Move the scenario forward 20 years, and the kids are now educated. They tell Mum and Dad they want their 5+ veges per day, that Dad should dump his gas-guzzler car for an economic one, and suggest Mum take a 2 km walk every evening. Which scenario makes for a successful family?

This is wrong in so many many ways. But first, is there any evidence that increased education leads to better political decision-making?

Most of the people in Thailand have a high school education, so I guess you want to limit the vote to people with Bachelor degrees? Or Masters? Or Phd? Its a great idea, and if you can implement it you will make Thailand the only country on earth with an education requirement to vote.

Your analogy reveals your preference for paternalistic rule. Father should direct all. Since men are better educated than women, do you also think women should not be allowed to vote. In Great Britain and America coloured people and immigrants are less educated than white or native people, so I guess they should not be allowed to vote either.

Your proto-faschist corporatist agenda is clear. Rule by the rich and elite. And don't say Thaksn is rich and elite as well, because vitually every elected leader on earth is rich and elite. The difference between them and Suthep is that they have actually been able to convince the people to elect them based on merit, while Suthep seeks office at the point of a gun, and has to repress the masses along the way.