TRT Targeted For Dissolution

[lukamar]

Key witness 'was intimidated'

MANOP THIP-OSOD BKKPost - Jan 26.

A key witness in the trial of the Thai Rak Thai party and two small parties for electoral fraud told the Constitution Tribunal that he was intimidated into implicating the former ruling party. Watthawarit Tantipirom, leader of the Better Life party, claimed the Democrat party threatened legal action if he did not implicate Thai Rak Thai in the bankrolling allegations.

Full Text.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Jan2007_news05.php

===========================

Hmmmm and all along I thought the Demos were the new squeeky clean Messiah for the Thai people and wouldn't stoop to such actions. Na.... just kidding they would do anything to get into power for their piece of the pie..

[thedude]

Key witness 'was intimidated'

MANOP THIP-OSOD BKKPost - Jan 26.

A key witness in the trial of the Thai Rak Thai party and two small parties for electoral fraud told the Constitution Tribunal that he was intimidated into implicating the former ruling party. Watthawarit Tantipirom, leader of the Better Life party, claimed the Democrat party threatened legal action if he did not implicate Thai Rak Thai in the bankrolling allegations.

Full Text.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Jan2007_news05.php

===========================

Hmmmm and all along I thought the Demos were the new squeeky clean Messiah for the Thai people and wouldn't stoop to such actions. Na.... just kidding they would do anything to get into power for their piece of the pie..

haha, actually there are the old bunch of power brokers still within democrat ranks that can play the bad cop behind the scenes, although the face of the party is made up of pansy prep school girly boys these days.

[Old Man River]

actually there are the old bunch of power brokers still within democrat ranks that can play the bad cop behind the scenes

Power brokers that can play the bad cop, yes, but still really good guys.

[Tony Clifton]

Mafia or Thai Rak Thai meeting? I'll flip a coin.

[hammered]

Key witness 'was intimidated'

MANOP THIP-OSOD BKKPost - Jan 26.

A key witness in the trial of the Thai Rak Thai party and two small parties for electoral fraud told the Constitution Tribunal that he was intimidated into implicating the former ruling party. Watthawarit Tantipirom, leader of the Better Life party, claimed the Democrat party threatened legal action if he did not implicate Thai Rak Thai in the bankrolling allegations.

Full Text.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Jan2007_news05.php

===========================

Hmmmm and all along I thought the Demos were the new squeeky clean Messiah for the Thai people and wouldn't stoop to such actions. Na.... just kidding they would do anything to get into power for their piece of the pie..

I would be interested in what is meant by "threatened legal action" in this statement.

[ColPyat]

actually there are the old bunch of power brokers still within democrat ranks that can play the bad cop behind the scenes

Power brokers that can play the bad cop, yes, but still really good guys.

Generally i do respect your opinion on most topics, even if i not always agree with them. This statement though, i am sorry, is below your standard. I doubt that "good" actually plays much of a role in politics, and in case of the Democrat powers - they are as corrupt and self serving as anybody else here. Just on top of my head i remember the Sor Por Kor 401 scandal in Phuket and other areas under their dominance that brought the Chuan 1 government to fall.

[Old Man River]

actually there are the old bunch of power brokers still within democrat ranks that can play the bad cop behind the scenes

Power brokers that can play the bad cop, yes, but still really good guys.

Generally i do respect your opinion on most topics, even if i not always agree with them. This statement though, i am sorry, is below your standard. I doubt that "good" actually plays much of a role in politics, and in case of the Democrat powers - they are as corrupt and self serving as anybody else here. Just on top of my head i remember the Sor Por Kor 401 scandal in Phuket and other areas under their dominance that brought the Chuan 1 government to fall.

Sorry to have disappointed you, but I base my comments on knowing these people, one in particular very, very well, and I will stick with my comments. To recount a comment I made in the past, on saying to one that the Demo's are the clean party, I was told no, nobody is clean in Thailand, but they are the relatively clean party.

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform. These people may be your friends, but they are not doing much good.

No, they are not "really good guys". They are not as bad as others, but that's about it.

[Old Man River]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform.

Yes, I agree with this, but how can you expect the Demo's, or any party for that matter, to have these meaningful discussions now? Once the CNS calls for new elections, then make your decisions on who the good guys are and who aren't.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform.

Yes, I agree with this, but how can you expect the Demo's, or any party for that matter, to have these meaningful discussions now? Once the CNS calls for new elections, then make your decisions on who the good guys are and who aren't.

Fair enough.

But please understand that i don't really hold my breath that the Democrats suddenly come up with a list of sound policies. During the time between the nullified elections and the coup they haven't either.

I would love to be proven wrong, though.

[hammered]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform. These people may be your friends, but they are not doing much good.

No, they are not "really good guys". They are not as bad as others, but that's about it.

Hi Colpyat

In all fairness to the Dems, who none of my family would vote for at this point in time by the way, they havent been in power for quite some time, and they were going through a rebuilding and reinveting process until the political turmoil. From what I heard they were not expecting to be in government for some time while this was going on. They did seem to do a fair job as the opposition in spite of their lack of numbers to strike a killer punch. Suriya looked pretty bad after the CTX scandal but was saved by a party line vote.

If the democratic process had continued who knows whether the Dems would have done any good or not two elections down the line. They certainly would have remained in a (larger) oppositon if there had been an election around the end of last year, and they may just have reached a point where they had policies and people to win by the election after that. Anyway it is all hypothetical, and we should remember that the coup knocked all this off course too.

I also cannot remember thousands of extra judicial killings of Thai citizens under dem governments too, but I digress.

[hammered]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform.

Yes, I agree with this, but how can you expect the Demo's, or any party for that matter, to have these meaningful discussions now? Once the CNS calls for new elections, then make your decisions on who the good guys are and who aren't.

Fair enough.

But please understand that i don't really hold my breath that the Democrats suddenly come up with a list of sound policies. During the time between the nullified elections and the coup they haven't either.

I would love to be proven wrong, though.

The next election wont be about policies imho. Too many issues right now. The one after that may be if it is 4-5 years down the line.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform. These people may be your friends, but they are not doing much good.

No, they are not "really good guys". They are not as bad as others, but that's about it.

Hi Colpyat

In all fairness to the Dems, who none of my family would vote for at this point in time by the way, they havent been in power for quite some time, and they were going through a rebuilding and reinveting process until the political turmoil. From what I heard they were not expecting to be in government for some time while this was going on. They did seem to do a fair job as the opposition in spite of their lack of numbers to strike a killer punch. Suriya looked pretty bad after the CTX scandal but was saved by a party line vote.

If the democratic process had continued who knows whether the Dems would have done any good or not two elections down the line. They certainly would have remained in a (larger) oppositon if there had been an election around the end of last year, and they may just have reached a point where they had policies and people to win by the election after that. Anyway it is all hypothetical, and we should remember that the coup knocked all this off course too.

I also cannot remember thousands of extra judicial killings of Thai citizens under dem governments too, but I digress.

Your speculation of events if the coup would not have happened mirrors mine, and i would have very much preferred the thing to be played out that way, for the sake of stability and steady development.

And, just playing devil's advocate, and emphasising again that i do not excuse the drugwar killings, the Democrats may not have killed thousands during a drugwar, neither have they done anything against the rapidly out of control drug problem that creeped up slowly in the early to mid nineties, and fully blosomed after the '97 financial crises.

Two sides to the same coin.

[ColPyat]

The next election wont be about policies imho. Too many issues right now. The one after that may be if it is 4-5 years down the line.

Unfortunately i believe you are right there. It will all be ideology and who is the biggest sycophant.

[Old Man River]

In general, politics in Thailand is similar to other countries in that you do as much as you need to in order to get elected. In the past that meant buying votes and next election, following the TRT's successes, it may well mean clear cut policies communicated prior to the vote. Time will tell.

Taking into account the Demo's actions over the past year or so, there is no question that my wife's family would continue to vote Democrat (offsetting Hammered's family, no doubt). Aside from the military, when the going was the toughest against the TRT, the Demo's were the only coalition party that openly voiced counter opinions. The two other coalition parties played politics and stayed in the background. Currently, other than TRT supporters, who isn't impressed by the way Korn is helping the ASC get to the bottom of the Ample Rich et. al. share transfers?

[hammered]

In general, politics in Thailand is similar to other countries in that you do as much as you need to in order to get elected. In the past that meant buying votes and next election, following the TRT's successes, it may well mean clear cut policies communicated prior to the vote. Time will tell.

Taking into account the Demo's actions over the past year or so, there is no question that my wife's family would continue to vote Democrat (offsetting Hammered's family, no doubt). Aside from the military, when the going was the toughest against the TRT, the Demo's were the only coalition party that openly voiced counter opinions. The two other coalition parties played politics and stayed in the background. Currently, other than TRT supporters, who isn't impressed by the way Korn is helping the ASC get to the bottom of the Ample Rich et. al. share transfers?

Thats a fair point about them as an opposition. Korn is impressive, and he actually sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

By the way, my wife at least is looking for a party or possibly an independent (if the law allows) to vote for. She never liked TRT, wont vote for the TRT renegades, doesnt think the Dems are right (yet?), wont vote Banharns mob and Sanan's mob only have one MP or something and dont exactly appeal. That was one of the things about the no-vote. It is easy to vote aginst something but a lot harder to find something you would choose to vote for. With voting in much of the west on the decline maybe that is something that is not unique to Thailand.

[Old Man River]

Korn is impressive, and he actually sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

He resigned as Chairman of JP Morgan (Thailand) to join the Demo's. At one time he was the youngest CEO of all brokerage companies in Thailand. Yes, he does know what he is talking about. There are others in the Demos that are impressive, but none in my opinion more impressive than Korn.

[ColPyat]

Korn is impressive, and he actually sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

He resigned as Chairman of JP Morgan (Thailand) to join the Demo's. At one time he was the youngest CEO of all brokerage companies in Thailand. Yes, he does know what he is talking about. There are others in the Demos that are impressive, but none in my opinion more impressive than Korn.

My wife has mostly voted for the Democrats, for lack of an alternative mostly.

And yes, i do find Korn impressive, but Abhisit less so. But, i fear that both are just figure heads while the real power lies somewhere else.

In the past that meant buying votes and next election, following the TRT's successes, it may well mean clear cut policies communicated prior to the vote. Time will tell.

That might have been the only long term benefit of Thaksin. But unfortunately the coup came in between, and the way how things are handled now, i fear that we have more of an ideology platform than a policy based platform during the next elections. And what happens after is very murky, IMHO.

[John K]

Colpyat, in Thailand, this is as good as it gets.

It may be as good as it gets, but that is not enough anymore.

The population increasingly demands a policy based platform, and a dicussion of issues, not just the old Democrat style of keeping the status quo and avoiding any substantial reform. These people may be your friends, but they are not doing much good.

No, they are not "really good guys". They are not as bad as others, but that's about it.

I was in the Philippines about 3 months after Marcos went on his way. I can remember a very pointed question the Philippine people asked me about their new president. My very honest reply was Cory was not the answer but she is a step in the right direction. Looking at Thaksin and the TRT getting away from them would have similar results.

Certainly old habits are hard to break and in a way corruption does have a bright side. It is the blending of the corrupt and the not corrupt that has made Thailand the wonderful charming place we find it to be. If it were to become too sterile it would very much resemble the places we came from. When I look at the news from the states and I see the egg shells people must walk on just to make it through the day without offending anyone simply make my stomach turn.

Nothing is perfect so we all must accept some imperfections in our lives. It is the overt negatives that must be removed.

Old Man River I agree with what you say.

[thedude]

its likely that the next people in power will be a coalition between chart thai, the dems and possibly some old faction of the trt with their vital northeastern votes. the dems only have urban votes and some southern votes, not enough to rule by themselves.

this is assuming the dems don't get disbanded together with the trt. the next pm will rise from the ranks of either chart thai or the dems, not from the ex trt faction no matter how many votes they get because the generals wont stand for it.

the army will not allow themselves to be run over again and will make sure they have a say on who gets to run the govt if only to safeguard themselves (thaksin undermined their power structure by getting involved in their annual appointments, this in essence was what led to the coup, the generals want to reclaim self determination).

coalition governments are the best way to ensure that the army maintains a balance of power without actually being seen to be in power. and since any "policy platform" used during elections will be difficult to enforce under a coalition, we can kiss that goodbye and expect to see more of the musical chair governments of the past where the same bunch of elites take turns to rule.

i hope i'm wrong but thats the way i see things going right now.

[ColPyat]

It is the blending of the corrupt and the not corrupt that has made Thailand the wonderful charming place we find it to be.

Sorry, but please speak for yourself.

I came to live in Thailand permanently in an aera where there was a lot of hope that even though Thailand was very corrupt there is a chance that it will get over that period soon.

No, i do not find your blend very attractive or charming or wonderful at all because this blend has kept people such as my wife's family in poverty.

[ColPyat]

and since any "policy platform" used during elections will be difficult to enforce under a coalition, we can kiss that goodbye and expect to see more of the musical chair governments of the past where the same bunch of elites take turns to rule.

i hope i'm wrong but thats the way i see things going right now.

Yeps. Same here.

[hammered]

its likely that the next people in power will be a coalition between chart thai, the dems and possibly some old faction of the trt with their vital northeastern votes. the dems only have urban votes and some southern votes, not enough to rule by themselves.

this is assuming the dems don't get disbanded together with the trt. the next pm will rise from the ranks of either chart thai or the dems, not from the ex trt faction no matter how many votes they get because the generals wont stand for it.

the army will not allow themselves to be run over again and will make sure they have a say on who gets to run the govt if only to safeguard themselves (thaksin undermined their power structure by getting involved in their annual appointments, this in essence was what led to the coup, the generals want to reclaim self determination).

coalition governments are the best way to ensure that the army maintains a balance of power without actually being seen to be in power. and since any "policy platform" used during elections will be difficult to enforce under a coalition, we can kiss that goodbye and expect to see more of the musical chair governments of the past where the same bunch of elites take turns to rule.

i hope i'm wrong but thats the way i see things going right now.

I guess many of us come from the two party or more or less two party countries scattered around the Western world. However, quite a number of countries do have successful coalition systems including a lot of the new EU members, Israel, Italy, New Zealand amongst many others, so I wouldnt want to write off the idea of coalitions as bad per se. There are several other distinct traits of Thai politics that may actually be more damaging. The political parties laregely lack an ideology. This is something that parties in say Europe that have coalitions have. There is also the continual changing of parties by politicians, which may be linked to lack of ideology. Swapping parties just so you can stay in govenment or for other dubious reasons rather than sticking to the party because you believe in what it stands for does seem to identify politicains as self serving.

[John K]

It is the blending of the corrupt and the not corrupt that has made Thailand the wonderful charming place we find it to be.

Sorry, but please speak for yourself.

I came to live in Thailand permanently in an aera where there was a lot of hope that even though Thailand was very corrupt there is a chance that it will get over that period soon.

No, i do not find your blend very attractive or charming or wonderful at all because this blend has kept people such as my wife's family in poverty.

Well without wandering too far off topic, my comment was made in a general way and not specifically looking at one persons negative or positive.

Thailand is a developing country so it will take time along with trial and error. Thaksin took advantage of this for his own personal good. Now simply it is time for the TRT to pay the price.

[ColPyat]

Well without wandering too far off topic, my comment was made in a general way and not specifically looking at one persons negative or positive.

Thailand is a developing country so it will take time along with trial and error. Thaksin took advantage of this for his own personal good. Now simply it is time for the TRT to pay the price.

And given your favoured blend that you find so wonderful charming - you do as well... in a general way.

Edited January 26, 2007 by ColPyat

[Siripon]

If The Democrats get dissolved and the executives can't stand for 5 years it's not too serious for them because Chuan Leekpai will become leader again and replacement MPs in the south will be easy as the people there are party rather than personality orientated.

Far more serious for TRT with its large executive board due to Thaksin desperate to please all the factions.

[sriracha john]

Key witness 'was intimidated'

MANOP THIP-OSOD BKKPost - Jan 26.

A key witness in the trial of the Thai Rak Thai party and two small parties for electoral fraud told the Constitution Tribunal that he was intimidated into implicating the former ruling party. Watthawarit Tantipirom, leader of the Better Life party, claimed the Democrat party threatened legal action if he did not implicate Thai Rak Thai in the bankrolling allegations.

Full Text.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Jan2007_news05.php

===========================

Hmmmm and all along I thought the Demos were the new squeeky clean Messiah for the Thai people and wouldn't stoop to such actions. Na.... just kidding they would do anything to get into power for their piece of the pie..

I would be interested in what is meant by "threatened legal action" in this statement.

Yes, indeed.

The full text does not elaborate on that at all....

Nor does it explain why the witness considered the Dems actions as intimidating...

So, basically... if going on nothing more than the Post article, it's solely the TRT witness that is saying Dems were intimidating... and making threats. There's no elaboration or explanation or collaboration...

Still, it's a shame really that we can't quote entire Post articles... so it then becomes paramount to read the Post articles in their entirety from the links provided before commenting too much on just the opening paragraph.

[Mid]

intimidated by legal action ...........................................

[sriracha john]

intimidated by legal action ...........................................

Consisting of what??? Helping him find a lawyer?

That's intimidating???

That's "threatening legal action" against him???

Edited January 26, 2007 by sriracha john

[Siripon]

Key witness 'was intimidated'

MANOP THIP-OSOD BKKPost - Jan 26.

A key witness in the trial of the Thai Rak Thai party and two small parties for electoral fraud told the Constitution Tribunal that he was intimidated into implicating the former ruling party. Watthawarit Tantipirom, leader of the Better Life party, claimed the Democrat party threatened legal action if he did not implicate Thai Rak Thai in the bankrolling allegations.

Full Text.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Jan2007_news05.php

===========================

Hmmmm and all along I thought the Demos were the new squeeky clean Messiah for the Thai people and wouldn't stoop to such actions. Na.... just kidding they would do anything to get into power for their piece of the pie..

haha, actually there are the old bunch of power brokers still within democrat ranks that can play the bad cop behind the scenes, although the face of the party is made up of pansy prep school girly boys these days.

come on dude, you're just jealous thet Messrs Aphisit and Apirak are a lot more handsome!