The Prajna Paramita Heart Sutra and its view on Theravada

[bizzle]

In this sutra it quite oftens make reference that Theravada is more about yourself rather than others.

Would you say this is true? I thnk in Thailand this could be quite accurate...

[fabianfred]

The Heart sutra, and many similar, are Mahayana. Since Mahayana started sometime after Theravada some people believe that the Theravada scriptures are more accurate and that many Mahayan texts were written later and are not the Buddha's own teachings. It seems that Mahayana often place great emphasis upon their masters and Gurus teachings rather than those of the Buddha directly.

They started their own version of Boddhisatvas, not part of what Theravadans believe the Buddha taught, whereby all beings are supposed to be Buddhas, or have Buddha nature, like a Buddha inside waiting to pop-out at the appropriate time, and that taking their Boddhisatva vow, to wait until all other beings enter Nibbana before you do. So its a bit like they are all fighting to stand there at the entrance to Nibbana, holding the door open for others to go first,.... 'you go first...No, you go first...'

because they consider it selfish for Theravadans to try to reach Arahant (the Buddhas own path) and thence enter Nibbana...as a personal journey; whilst they are trying to help all others enter.

This completely ignores that once a being has reached the state of Arahant or Buddha, and thus are already in the state of Nibbana, just because they are not going to be reborn within the 31 realms doesn't mean that they no longer exist or are no longer able to manifest themselves to teach others.

The lives and actions of monks in Thailand does not degrade the Theravada teachings...it just means they do not try to live up to them.

Edited April 9, 2014 by fabianfred

[bizzle]

The Heart sutra, and many similar, are Mahayana. Since Mahayana started sometime after Theravada some people believe that the Theravada scriptures are more accurate and that many Mahayan texts were written later and are not the Buddha's own teachings. It seems that Mahayana often place great emphasis upon their masters and Gurus teachings rather than those of the Buddha directly.

They started their own version of Boddhisatvas, not part of what Theravadans believe the Buddha taught, whereby all beings are supposed to be Buddhas, or have Buddha nature, like a Buddha inside waiting to pop-out at the appropriate time, and that taking their Boddhisatva vow, to wait until all other beings enter Nibbana before you do. So its a bit like they are all fighting to stand there at the entrance to Nibbana, holding the door open for others to go first,.... 'you go first...No, you go first...'

because they consider it selfish for Theravadans to try to reach Arahant (the Buddhas own path) and thence enter Nibbana...as a personal journey; whilst they are trying to help all others enter.

This completely ignores that once a being has reached the state of Arahant or Buddha, and thus are already in the state of Nibbana, just because they are not going to be reborn within the 31 realms doesn't mean that they no longer exist or are no longer able to manifest themselves to teach others.

The lives and actions of monks in Thailand does not degrade the Theravada teachings...it just means they do not try to live up to them.

Interesting

Still though, would you say that Theravada ways are to explain for the "look after number one" trait that Thailand seems to have...?

[fabianfred]

'Looking after number one' is a selfish trait found in all Countries and with people of all religions and cannot be blamed upon any religion. Modern consumer society is more to blame.

Why are you trying to bash the Thais? because they do not follow the sect you like or some other reason?

[bizzle]

'Looking after number one' is a selfish trait found in all Countries and with people of all religions and cannot be blamed upon any religion. Modern consumer society is more to blame.

Why are you trying to bash the Thais? because they do not follow the sect you like or some other reason?

I think Ill leave it there as you are missing my point.

Edited April 10, 2014 by bizzle

[fabianfred]

Perhaps you are not explaining your point well enough for us to understand.

The frequent cry of those who find people do not agree with them is...'...you don't understand'.

[Brucenkhamen]

Unlikely, from what I can find Theravada developed a bit later than this Sutra was written, and of course thousands of miles away.

Are you sure it's not referring to hinayana? Please quote an example.

[sabaijai]

The question presumes Thais are more selfish than nationalities in countries where Mahayana Buddhism predominates, presumably Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and China. Add Mongolia, Tibet and Nepal if you classify Vajrayana as part of Mahayana, as some do.

Having travelled to all of these countries, I would say the degree of selfishness is more or less the same.

Suppose you did feel that the citizens of those countries were less selfish than the Thais, it would be fallacious to claim this was a result of the predominating schools of Buddhism. Simple correlation does not imply causation. There are too many other concomitant factors to consider.