Visa in Cancelled Passport; Travel on EDT; On Overstay?

[NancyL]

Here's one for you visa geeks. Someone went into the U.S. consulate to get pages added to their passport a few months ago and had their passport cancelled (and I think confiscated, but I'm not certain) because of, shall we say, a dispute where the U.S. gov't thinks this individual owes them money.

(I should note that there had been a judgement in a court of law against this individual; he was well aware that the U.S. gov't thought they were owed money. In fact, this person had been making payments for a time and then decided he didn't need to comply any more, so the fact that the U.S. gov't thought they were owed money wasn't a surprise to this individual.)

When they cancelled his passport he was told that when the time came for him to return to the U.S., he would be issued an Emergency Travel Document, upon presentation of a valid airline ticket. Well, that day will come soon.

(Keep in mind, I'm just going on what I've been told by the individual. I haven't talked with anyone at the Consulate about whether this really is their procedure.)

So, here is his question. His visa is in his cancelled passport. He claims the visa is still valid -- it doesn't expire until May. But, he thinks his cancelled passport will not be returned to him by the consulate. If that's the case, will he be subject to an overstay fine on his way out of Thailand?

[thepool]

I would imagine that in this case the embassy would simply cancel the PP, punch holes in it and return the PP to the individual.

Any "visa" in the passport , if valid, would remain valid. The ETD is a one way deal so the individual is effectively caught !

s/he would of course be flagged on the US immigration systems and be apprehended on arrival !

Suggest you have a word with the Embassy.!

Edited April 10, 2014 by thepool

[Mario2008]

He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand.

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

If he wants to return to Thailand he should settle his differences with the US-government, before he is deported as an unwanted alien. If that happens he will have problems returning. (In case of a criminal case against him, the US government might vey well inform the Thai government that they have revoked his passport and immigration might pick him up).

[ggold]

He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand.

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

If he wants to return to Thailand he should settle his differences with the US-government, before he is deported as an unwanted alien. If that happens he will have problems returning. (In case of a criminal case against him, the US government might vey well inform the Thai government that they have revoked his passport and immigration might pick him up).

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

I think there in lays the reason why the Embassy will issues an emergency travel document, they are forcing the guy to return to the states or maybe face prison time here once immigration have caught up with him. especially if he overstays without a passport!! going to have to pay his way out one way or another or both! Can't believe they would give up the chance of tea money? not once they find out its tax avoidance.

[TerryLH]

"He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand."

I'm sure you mean 'valid passport' instead of valid ID'.

[ubonjoe]

"He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand."

I'm sure you mean 'valid passport' instead of valid ID'.

Both are the same thing. Your passport is the only valid ID you can use in Thailand unless you are on permanent residency according to the immigration act.

For a person to remain here they need a valid passport as soon as it is cancelled you are here illegally.

The person mentioned in the OP is not the first to have this happen to them. There have been several that have learned the hard way that owing back child support meant that could have their passport cancelled.

[NancyL]

"He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand."

I'm sure you mean 'valid passport' instead of valid ID'.

Both are the same thing. Your passport is the only valid ID you can use in Thailand unless you are on permanent residency according to the immigration act.

For a person to remain here they need a valid passport as soon as it is cancelled you are here illegally?

The person mentioned in the OP is not the first to have this happen to them. There have been several that have learned the hard way that owing back child support meant that could have their passport cancelled.

Ubonjoe, you're one of the gurus of the visa forum. So, does this mean he's on overstay and will have to pay 20,000 baht overstay on his way out?

Apparently, he remained here for months after being informed by the U.S. Consulate that his passport had been cancelled and is only leaving now because his visa expires in May -- but has he really had a visa since his passport has been cancelled?

Not entirely certain, but I think he's continued to work, too, because he said something about visa and work permit and how he could afford to live in Thailand, but didn't earn enough to pay what he owed on his debt.

(This is just one of many bad decisions he's made in life; I won't go into the other problems. I'm just seeking clarification on the visa/overstay/passport/exiting Thailand issue with this post) Thanks.

Edited April 11, 2014 by NancyL

[khwaibah]

"Here's one for you visa geeks. Someone went into the U.S. consulate to get pages added to their passport a few months ago and had their passport cancelled (and I think confiscated, but I'm not certain) because of, shall we say, a dispute where the U.S. gov't thinks this individual owes them money."

The US Consulate in Chiang Mai does not confiscate a passport. They will cancelled it and issue the individual a temporary travel passport valid for no more than 6 months. The individual had both in their possession when they departed the consulate.

Edited April 11, 2014 by khwaibah

[ubonjoe]

If they physically cancelled his passport by stamping it and punching holes in the cover he may well have to pay a fine on departure. They may of just cancelled it in the US passport records so that if he tried to enter the US he would be caught.

If he is on an extension for working I don't know how he could of been making 90 day reports if it was physically cancelled. If on a visa that requires border runs it would be even worse because hew would not be able to make border runs.

[rotary]

Many years ago I knew a guy who the US Embassy took his passport over unpaid child support but on the same day they issued him a one way travel document good for travel to the USA. Now all of this before 911 so things may be different now.

[Suradit69]

He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand.

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

If he wants to return to Thailand he should settle his differences with the US-government, before he is deported as an unwanted alien. If that happens he will have problems returning. (In case of a criminal case against him, the US government might vey well inform the Thai government that they have revoked his passport and immigration might pick him up).

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

I think there in lays the reason why the Embassy will issues an emergency travel document, they are forcing the guy to return to the states or maybe face prison time here once immigration have caught up with him. especially if he overstays without a passport!! going to have to pay his way out one way or another or both! Can't believe they would give up the chance of tea money? not once they find out its tax avoidance.

"Can't believe they would give up the chance of tea money? not once they find out its tax avoidance."

Ah the Farang Fantasy Factory and Cabal of Conspiracy Conjurers join forces.

If Thai police and Immigrations cooperate with the US (and other major players) regarding arrest and deportation regularly, and the embassy sends a notice to whatever dept. of the Thai government regarding this individual, do you really think your childish notion regarding "tea money" will materialize in this case?

[ggold]

He is not in the possession of a valid ID, which is grounds to arrest him and deport him. Without one he is not permitted to stay in Thailand.

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

If he wants to return to Thailand he should settle his differences with the US-government, before he is deported as an unwanted alien. If that happens he will have problems returning. (In case of a criminal case against him, the US government might vey well inform the Thai government that they have revoked his passport and immigration might pick him up).

If he leaves he just shows his ETD and leaves, explaining he doesn't have a valid passport. Than immigration looks him up and sees he has a valid permission to stay.

I think there in lays the reason why the Embassy will issues an emergency travel document, they are forcing the guy to return to the states or maybe face prison time here once immigration have caught up with him. especially if he overstays without a passport!! going to have to pay his way out one way or another or both! Can't believe they would give up the chance of tea money? not once they find out its tax avoidance.

"Can't believe they would give up the chance of tea money? not once they find out its tax avoidance."

Ah the Farang Fantasy Factory and Cabal of Conspiracy Conjurers join forces.

If Thai police and Immigrations cooperate with the US (and other major players) regarding arrest and deportation regularly, and the embassy sends a notice to whatever dept. of the Thai government regarding this individual, do you really think your childish notion regarding "tea money" will materialize in this case?

Thanks for the constructive comments. My view is a valid one, not saying it would work out that way, But it could. No Farang Fantasy Factory. Just because the embassy issues a notice doesn't mean immigration will respond immediately! And at the end of the day the guy is in Thailand. The Thais will do what they want before shipping him out. IMO

[KonaRain]

I had to clear my child support debt to travel..

this not a deportation case, nor 'apprehension' imho..alohz

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[caughtintheact]

It would seem that if the ETD contains documentation of his visa and his TM card , he should be OK to leave without any overstay penalty, but if not, then technically he may not have a visa since it is in his confiscated passport. If the ETD shows no evidence of a visa/TM card, maybe he should have a friend present a redacted copy of the ETD to his regular immigration office as a hypothetical situation to see what they say.

[ubonjoe]

It would seem that if the ETD contains documentation of his visa and his TM card , he should be OK to leave without any overstay penalty, but if not, then technically he may not have a visa since it is in his confiscated passport. If the ETD shows no evidence of a visa/TM card, maybe he should have a friend present a redacted copy of the ETD to his regular immigration office as a hypothetical situation to see what they say.

The only way the travel document could have any entry/permit to stay stamps in it would require a trip to immigration to get them moved from the old passport to it. The embassy cannot do it.

We do not have enough info to say anything definitively in this case mentioned in this topic.

[phil2]

Used to know someone who had the same problem. He simply applied for and got one issued to him from his parents' country of birth, and also, from his wife's ( an Asian country ). He's got two alternatives presently.

[timmuhonen]

i have copied my visas and passport every year....if smth happens to my passport.

[NancyL]

Yes, this man said he has copies of his passport, visa, work permit etc and it would seem to be the best course of action to have copies available with the ETD when he leaves the country.

[ubonjoe]

Yes, this man said he has copies of his passport, visa, work permit etc and it would seem to be the best course of action to have copies available with the ETD when he leaves the country.

Copies of the old passport will not work on departure.

He would need to go to immigration to get the stamps put on the ETD. It would be the same procedure that is required for a lost passport.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

"... the same procedure that is required for a lost passport."

Then would normally require a Thai police report, too. Can't call the passport "lost," tho, as that would be a lie, just say kept by the Consulate?

Mac

[ubonjoe]

Of course there would be no police report needed. I was just using the lost passport as an example.

[jaloochapurr]

I too know a guy who went for more pages at US Embassy. Was informed wanted for non payment of child support. He left there with nothing. Now in Issan with no ID whatsoever. Poor him.

[NancyL]

Yeah, that's what the guy I talked with said happened to him. I find it difficult to believe that the Consulate would actually take away his passport, but it is their property after all. It does pay to make copies, although you can't use copies always as I.D. and a copy certainly doesn't allow you to do visa maintenance. Guess it doesn't pay to mess with Uncle Sam.

Incidentally, I don't know what happened to this guy. He had so many other issues going on in his life -- none of which were health related. There was nothing I could do to help him and I think he really just contacted me looking for money, not advice.