One for the mechanics (v-twin clutch & engine problem)

[Marcel1]

Recently as someone might remember I have purchased an 400cc Vulcan.

The bike was not been used for a longer period of time and I brought it to my mechanic.

Many things were changed, I let the bike resprayed and it looks pretty cool by now. I had a small trip on it from about 150 km a few weeks ago but then the problems started.

I will describe the happenings as precise as possible as it maybe connects to each other. Please keep in mind that English is not my native so a few words might be incorrect. Also I have no experience in

manual bikes and engines so I might come over as a complete noob but, I am willing to learn and think this is an interesting project to pick something up myself rather than the easy way to bring it back to the mechanic again.

I started it 2 weeks ago and noticed there was some petrol leeking under the bike. When opening the throttle slightly the petrol was streaming out and I saw that the petrol was coming out of the engine. Lets say that, if standing on the left side of the bike, you will see the engine. V The left side is the front wheel side and the right side is near the seat. on the inside of the right side of the engine is a small valve where the petrol and air was coming out. (please see pictures attached).

When I showed this same picture to my mechanic and he gave me a piece of rubber tube with a bolt in it. He said put that up than it must be fine, than bring it here and I will check it for you. And so I did. Engine running again and happy.

A few days later, I wanted to bring the bike to the mechanic so started it up (one push of the button) and went down the parking lot. Gave a cool nod to the security and I was on my way, tillll the side of the road. Than the engine stopped and I could walk back to my condo. Tried starting it but wouldn't work. Shortly afterwards the battery was dead also.

Left the bike alone again since I was busy with working also. Yesterday I took the battery to work and charged it again. Came home, put the battery and started it, one push of the button no problem at all. when I drove up the parking in my condo (parked it downstairs). I noticed that the clutch cable had no tension at all so it was driving pretty unstable. Checked the tensioners (nex bolts) at the lever but they are almost all the way out already. Wanting to check under the bike so, I removed the exhausts and had a look. Also there the bolts are already all the way out. Then I noticed that the cable was not the problem but, the small steel plate (spring) where the clutch cable is connected under the bike was not working any more. I could move it freely to the front and the back so I figured that the clutch was dead.

After this I was a bit bored so I checked the coolant, it was over flowing with strange looking water (petrol color)? when I opened up the cap it was flowing out already.

Then as last thing, I started the bike without the exhausts, (aren't we all curious sometimes? ;-) Hell of a noise so quickly turned it down again and as of a miracle was happened the clutch was working again.... ?????????? all question marks around my head but strangely enough the spring looked perfectly fine like if never anything happened. Happy as I was I mounted the exhausts again and, gave it a go.

Smooth starting but, when releasing the clutch I felt a strong studder in the engine, moved to second gear, same story when about halfway through the clutch releasing process a strong studder. Than all of the sudden, the bike stopped. Just stopped without a warning. I push on the button and it started again, drive 10 meters and off again, starting, drive 10 meters and off again. When stopping the bike I heard a hissing sound coming from inside the engine for a long time after and while driving, or running the bike produces some light white smoke.

So to list my questions under number for easy reference:

1. valve on the outside of the engine producing air and petrol (like in the picture) ok to stuff it up with a piece of rubber and a bolt??

2. Clutch cable and spring strangely working and, give a big studder when releasing the clutch

3. Engine failure without any warning?

4. white smoke.

5. hissing sound from the engine.

All filters and oils where replaced recently so I guess that should be ok.

Maybe I should add a slightly shaming action of me, when have the petrol leek I emptied the tank (with petrol in a plastic jug). And I threw water in the tank since I needed to locate where the petrol was coming from but didn't want to have more petrol on the floor to not get complaints from my neighbors. After locating the leek, I think I removed all the water from the engine again. But in order to have the fluid leeking I had to try and start the engine so also with the water. (yes this is pretty shaming I know :-)

If there is anyone out here on the forum who isn't wasted and trowing with water today, than I would love to hear some opinions of what it might be. Otherwise I will load it onto a pick-up after songkran and let my mechanic check these things but like I said, it is an interesting way to learn something new.

Happy songkran!!

[Marcel1]

Picture

Edited April 13, 2014 by Marcel1

[Shurup]

1. Can't say from the picture

2. Don't know but would open it up and check the clutch.

3. Could be electrical, is the kickstand switch loose? Could also be fuel related? A silly question but is the fuel valve opened all the way?

4. Smoke from where? If it's an older bike with some oil leaks near the exhaust pipe, you will get the smoke when the engine gets hot and burns the oil.

5. Not sure but could be a vacuum leak or a leaky radiator cap? Also from you being a noob and what you said about checking coolant - don't try to open it up when the engine is hot!

[Marcel1]

Hi Shurup,

Thanks for your quick reply and you counter questions.

1. too bad you not can see it, I thought since you have a dragster (if I am correct) it maybe should ring a bell, but is is slightly difficult to see as well. When I look under the petrol tap and shine with a light in that side of the engine

you can see it, its close to the cabu. At least I guess they have similar engines.

2. I was scared of opening it since I've read there might be some oil leekings? my neighbours are already not so happy with my petrol stained, 4 motorbike and 2 bicycles filled parking spot next to their brand new bmw/mercedes

3. Kick stand switch is fine, checked already and, it shuts off while driving. The fuel valve is opened i'm not such a big noob hehe. but, when the petrol is empty mostly it studders slightly before turning off and now it is suddenly off.

4. smoke is from the mufflers tip. as it is supposed to be, there is no oil leaking at all.

5.Could be one of these but that is beyond my knowledge. And no I will not open it up when hot hehe, good point though but I worked my own cars before, suspensions etc. small maintenance but when the problems go inside the engine its abracadabra for me.

Loads of TV time today, at the office but the office is near empty this time. the afternoon maybe find a cold beer and trow some water to the sexy girls

[VocalNeal]

My 2C

White smoke is usually coolant unless it smells like oil. Bung a 1/2 a packet of gasket sealer in and run for 10 mins. Similar to below available from any auto parts shop in Thailand for about 80 baht.

Petrol could be a stuck float in a carburettor or a faulty fuel valve (near the fuel tank). The fuel valve sometimes sticks open resulting in fuel leaking into the carburettors. Fuel leaking out of the spigot in your picture indicates a stuck float in a carburettor. (the spigot being the carburettor overflow same as a toilet overflows if the ball gets stuck). The carburettors need to be disassembled and cleaned. Cause could be lack of use depending on how long you didn't use it for or the long term effect of gasohol on the rubber components. You could try some fuel system cleaner from Tesco etc.

Clutch sounds like a sticking cable, you'd need a cable oiler to lubricate it properly so take it to a mechanic and have him lubricate the cable or install/make a new one. If after that the it still doesn't work well ....

Change the engine oil while it is at the mechanics!

Edited April 13, 2014 by VocalNeal

[ATF]

First thing change your mechanic. He's a clown. Never play with things you don't understand. Pouring water into an engine can destroy it because it is impossible to compress a liquid. This could have seriously damaged your pistons. Although gasoline is a liquid it is turned into a vapour before entering the cylinder. Oil in coolant means your cylinder is cracked especially if you have foam in the oil. You can put sticky tape on everything but if you want a reliable bike get the engine stripped down and inspected and gaskets, seals etc. replaced and valves and clutch checked properly. It's not expensive. How old is the bike?

Edited April 13, 2014 by ATF

[VocalNeal]

^ Where does it say the mechanic poured water into the engine? Sorry the only words poured I found were yours.

Back to the OP It is possible that the spigot pictured in your post is supposed to be connected to the vacuum system but....

Where are you? Location seems to be missing from many posts. While it may not effect the opinions on here it does effect any recommendations for a different mechanic or someone more familiar with certain bikes.

Edited April 13, 2014 by VocalNeal

[Shurup]

First thing change your mechanic. He's a clown. Never play with things you don't understand. Pouring water into an engine can destroy it because it is impossible to compress a liquid. This could have seriously damaged your pistons. Although gasoline is a liquid it is turned into a vapour before entering the cylinder. Oil in coolant means your cylinder is cracked especially if you have foam in the oil. You can put sticky tape on everything but if you want a reliable bike get the engine stripped down and inspected and gaskets, seals etc. replaced and valves and clutch checked properly. It's not expensive. How old is the bike?

If it's a 400, it must be old. I think you misunderstood something he said, I re-read the OP again and I can't see where he said anything about pouring water into the engine. Also fuel enters the engine as a mist and not vapor, same same but different.

OP, you need to collaborate, explain better, on what color or what wrong you think was with the coolant, color or otherwise.

As VocalNeal said, the clutch issue could be a sticky cable? if you have a pharmacy nearby, go'n get a small syringe and a needle, draw some oil in it and inject into the cable opening from the top where it connects to a clutch leaver. Work a leaver until it smooth.

I'd be careful using any additives unless you're absolutely sure you have a leak in the cooling system, I had a very bad experience with them - got a tiny pinhole in the rad from the rock, added a bit of the stop leak additive and it completely plugged the rad, only found out it got plugged when I was already on a road and stuck in a traffic and the vehicle started overheating. Was a pain to get it back home as I had to stop and let it cool down every 5 min. Ended up changing the rad.

If you suspect you have a leak, change the coolant, change the oil, use the bike for a little while as you normally would (after all the other issues are fixed), then check the oil and coolant levels and oil quality (oil needs to be checked right after a ride), if the levels changed then you have a leak, if the oil looks milky then the coolant is leaking into the oil.

[liddelljohn]

Vulcans are water cooled ,, i would say that a head gasket or seal in the engine id defective and water is now mixing with oil ,, engine probably needs a full strip down ...replacement seals and gaskets

[ATF]

"Maybe I should add a slightly shaming action of me, when have the petrol leek I emptied the tank (with petrol in a plastic jug). And I threw water in the tank since I needed to locate where the petrol was coming from but didn't want to have more petrol on the floor to not get complaints from my neighbors. After locating the leek, I think I removed all the water from the engine again. But in order to have the fluid leeking I had to try and start the engine so also with the water. (yes this is pretty shaming I know :-)"

Thinking just doesn't cut it buddy. Take it to a Pro or the Dealer at least someone with a torque wrench.

[VocalNeal]

I've never had any problems with radiator stop leak. But amounts are important. What is sold is for cars so only use half or a quarter. The OP's leak as far as we know is not the radiator so the chemicals would seal a small cylinder had gasket leak.

It is important to use finely powdered "stop leak' and not one that looks like rabbit dropping ( big granuals) they will clog up the whole cooling system. Barrs Leak is best but I have never seen that in Thailand. My salesman had a small leak in his older Honda's (car) cooling system. We bunged in a tube of 80 baht powder and it hasn't leaked since.

Also important not to let the radiator level fall during curing.

Edited April 13, 2014 by VocalNeal

[Shurup]

@ATF Oops, I didn't read past where he asked his 5 questions I guess.

OP, That was not very smart and it would explain why the engine is dying all the time now. Drain the tank and leave the fuel cap open until all the liquid dries out.

Where do you live? I know a good mechanic in Korat if you're anywhere near there.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Shurup

[ATF]

@ATF Oops, I didn't read past where he asked his 5 questions I guess.

OP, That was not very smart and it would explain why the engine is dying all the time now. Drain the tank and leave the fuel cap open until all the liquid dries out.

Where do you live? I know a good mechanic in Korat if you're anywhere near there.

No worries Shurup the white smoke is probably steam!!! LOL

[BSJ]

Given the age of the bike it probably need a restoration to replace all the bearings, bushes, rubber seals and hoses and an engine overhaul if there is coolant and oil mixing together.

[dutchrdam]

Hello and let me try to help you a little further.

Leaking petrol… mainly 3 reasons.

1. Main valve from the petrol, between the tank and the carburetors is hanging.
2. Vlotter in the carburetor is hanging.
3. Tube between the carburetors is lose or broken.

The rubber tube with a bold sound not very professional, probably used bold as plug. As first aid ok but not recommend as repair. The rubber tube must have a function. If in the top of the engine mostly air over pressure release from the engine

Bike started well but shortly stops after that. Mainly 4 reasons.

1. Main valve from the petrol, between the tank and the carburetors is blocking.
2. No spark… plugs/cables broken. HS Coil no good grounding/Rust.
3. Wiring problem. Check wiring. STOP button, stand switches
4. ECU problem. Check wiring from and to sensors. Exchange or repair ECU

Clutch.

If tensioners all out do me think an almost broken cable Also can it be that the clutch mechanic inside the engine is broken/wrongly rebuild. Shudders can come from wrongly rebuild clutch packs, worn out clutch plates or when the plates are not flat.

Hissing sound.

This can be many but here are some possibilities.

1. To much oil in engine.
2. Leaking head of cylinder. Coolant mix with oil ? ( Strange color/smell coolant. White smoke exhaust )
3. One or more valves stay open or timing is very wrong. Compression escape through head air escape.
4. Sparkplug not tighten/broken

Well hope that this general tips help you on your way.

[Marcel1]

thanks a lot for the constructive comments guys! I'll look into it deeper tomorrow and give some more explanations but today too busy. also Ill post my further actions here.

The bike is from 1996

[Marcel1]

The bike is a 1996 with an long time unused engine. I am in Bangkok.

the color of the coolant looked like it has been mixed with petrol but I could not smell anything. There is no sludge in the coolant like you would have expected when the seals are broken.

I can not locate any oil leaks.

The clutch cable is not sticking I checked that already but, I think there is something inside the clutch what isn't correct.

It seems that there are many possibilities on this so I think I will bring it back to the mechanic and let him change the clutch, all the rubbers and seals and check everything better.

[yankee99]

The bike is a 1996 with an long time unused engine. I am in Bangkok.

the color of the coolant looked like it has been mixed with petrol but I could not smell anything. There is no sludge in the coolant like you would have expected when the seals are broken.

I can not locate any oil leaks.

The clutch cable is not sticking I checked that already but, I think there is something inside the clutch what isn't correct.

It seems that there are many possibilities on this so I think I will bring it back to the mechanic and let him change the clutch, all the rubbers and seals and check everything better.

Not sure what color that is but they do sell green and pink coolant here in thailand. So what color is your petrol?

[Marcel1]

It could be pink then, my petrol looks red.

[Shurup]

I think it's just pink color coolant.

It's highly unlikely the fuel will leak into the cooling system, 1st - the 2 systems aren't anywhere near each other, 2nd - the cooling system is a high pressure and the fuel isn't - can't have anything leaking from a low into a high system.

Drain it and change it to green coolant if it will make you feel better.

[ATF]

The bike is a 1996 with an long time unused engine. I am in Bangkok.

the color of the coolant looked like it has been mixed with petrol but I could not smell anything. There is no sludge in the coolant like you would have expected when the seals are broken.

I can not locate any oil leaks.

The clutch cable is not sticking I checked that already but, I think there is something inside the clutch what isn't correct.

It seems that there are many possibilities on this so I think I will bring it back to the mechanic and let him change the clutch, all the rubbers and seals and check everything better.

You would not be able to detect where oil is entering the coolant because it will be a hairline fracture in the cylinder. You'd have to strip the engine. Get the clutch working and drive the bike and keep checking if the coolant level drops. You may be able to see small drops of water coming out of the exhaust. Anyway sounds like it needs new everything. Probably best to sell it to some clown and buy a NEW bike.

[seedy]

There are ways to check if you have a crack in the block or cylinder head or head gasket, which involve the use of a shop compressor.

Do you have one ??

Also, if you pressurize the cooling system you can find if coolant is leaking into the engine.

Neither require an engine teardown.

[seedy]

I think it's just pink color coolant.

It's highly unlikely the fuel will leak into the cooling system, 1st - the 2 systems aren't anywhere near each other, 2nd - the cooling system is a high pressure and the fuel isn't - can't have anything leaking from a low into a high system.

Drain it and change it to green coolant if it will make you feel better.

On the contrary ...

The coolant passages are very close together where the head gasket joins the cylinder head to the engine block. Leaking head gasket can allow coolant to enter the engine, or vice versa.

Rad pressure cap usually about 15 psi, engine compression even at 9 to 1 is much higher. Engine oil pressure at 35 psi is higher than rad cap pressure.

Both - due to higher pressure, can leak into cooling system.

To go the other way, on the intake stroke, the cylinder exhibits a partial vacuum. This can draw coolant thru the faulty head gasket, past the piston rings, and contaminate engine oil.

[Shurup]

I think it's just pink color coolant.

It's highly unlikely the fuel will leak into the cooling system, 1st - the 2 systems aren't anywhere near each other, 2nd - the cooling system is a high pressure and the fuel isn't - can't have anything leaking from a low into a high system.

Drain it and change it to green coolant if it will make you feel better.

On the contrary ...

The coolant passages are very close together where the head gasket joins the cylinder head to the engine block. Leaking head gasket can allow coolant to enter the engine, or vice versa.

Rad pressure cap usually about 15 psi, engine compression even at 9 to 1 is much higher. Engine oil pressure at 35 psi is higher than rad cap pressure.

Both - due to higher pressure, can leak into cooling system.

To go the other way, on the intake stroke, the cylinder exhibits a partial vacuum. This can draw coolant thru the faulty head gasket, past the piston rings, and contaminate engine oil.

He was talkign about fuel, not oil.

[seedy]

Rad pressure cap usually about 15 psi, engine compression even at 9 to 1 is much higher.

He was talkign about fuel, not oil.

Engine compression does not compress coolant, it compresses an air fuel mixture.

There is the fuel.

[Shurup]

Please re-read the OP's question and see if it makes sense what you're saying. Yes we know the engine compresses a mix of air and fuel.

OP's worry was his coolant is mixed with the fuel, now lets think how much of the A/F mix mist need to leak to noticeably change the coolant's appearance? Will the engine actually run at all if it's compression leak test was so horrible? I don't think I ever heard of leaking fuel into the coolant and I don't think it's possible with a running engine.

[Marcel1]

The bike is a 1996 with an long time unused engine. I am in Bangkok.

the color of the coolant looked like it has been mixed with petrol but I could not smell anything. There is no sludge in the coolant like you would have expected when the seals are broken.

I can not locate any oil leaks.

The clutch cable is not sticking I checked that already but, I think there is something inside the clutch what isn't correct.

It seems that there are many possibilities on this so I think I will bring it back to the mechanic and let him change the clutch, all the rubbers and seals and check everything better.

You would not be able to detect where oil is entering the coolant because it will be a hairline fracture in the cylinder. You'd have to strip the engine. Get the clutch working and drive the bike and keep checking if the coolant level drops. You may be able to see small drops of water coming out of the exhaust. Anyway sounds like it needs new everything. Probably best to sell it to some clown and buy a NEW bike.

I have new bikes also, I bought this one just for fun.

here I dont have much tools myself since I live in a condo so I guess ill bring it back to the mechanic there are too many possibilities about what could be wrong.

[seedy]

Good luck with the repair.

[Spoonman]

Seems the only issue with the bike is a flat battery...................

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/mcy/4414337240.html

------NOW DISCOUNTED------ I wanted to start this morning but the battery is empty!
I don't have the time to charge/fix it so the price is deducted from 65.000 to 50.000! be quick.
If no one picks him up before next weekend i'll fix it myself and the price is 65.000 again, up to you to get an great deal.

I am selling my beloved Kawasaki Vulcan 400. is is a 1996 model and runs perfectly.!

It's a great bike to have and own, many looks from the people and very comfortable to ride even in Bangkok but also on longer trips. It has 44.xxx on the odo. Because it is recent resprayed it looks like a brand new bike.

Over the past 2 months I have changed the following
-completely resprayed!
-oil changed
-new oil filter
-new chain + sprockets!
-changed carburetor
-new rear brake
-front brake new fluid and checked
-new coolant
-new spark plugs
-braking light fixed
-all electrics checked en fixed

No costs are spared on this bike and for sure you will have many happy kilometers on this bike. The tires are still like new and have lots of life to go.

The bike has no invoice papers or license plate anymore but, in my years of driving here I never had any issues with the authorities. I can write you a bill of sale if you want to and that's what I have from the previous owner also, gives you no legal assurance though.

The reason of selling is because I just not have the time to ride my bikes, as I have a few standing around.

Sensible offers are considered, dreamers can stay at home, anyone else is welcome for a test ride.

For more questions please send me an email, I'll reply quick. Please no time wasters.

[ZigZagMan]

Practically showroom condition. Great bike. Just bring a truck.