Renting a car, thai mother of young boy refusing to use infant seat

[vi2004]

I am going to rent a car at the weekend from one of the international car rental agencies..

I am farang with an European driver's licence and an international licence.

Now it looks as if my wife's cousin is joining us - and if she does she will bring her boy of 3 years.

After I said that we then have to rent an infant seat I received different feedback.

The cousin was baffled, puzzled, laughing in disbelief, looking at me thinking I am crazy or just joking her.

She said that it won't be possible to put the boy in an infant seat anyway.

I thought "Who cares what the boy wants? He's not the boss. This is about safety".

I am not the overcautious kind of guy. In Bangkok I frequently take the motorbike taxi.

But then I am only responsible for myself.

So, now I am tending to not taking the cousin and the boy with us.

Safety first!

Nevertheless I am interested in what would happen to me (since I am the driver) or to the person responsible for the young boy if we had an accident and something happened to the boy because he was sitting or standing on the back seat?

What about the adult people on the backseat not wearing the safety-belt because they never do?

Does it make a difference if the driver is Thai or farang?

[krisb]

Your BIG problem if there's an accident and your the driver.

Tell the stupid mother it's the car seat or nothing, and she has to pay for the hire of it. At least he has to be belted in the back seat.

Edited April 16, 2014 by krisb

[benalibina]

It will go like this.

The cousin and her son will go with u in the car....you have the infantseat....with some luck, 40%, he will sit in it....you stop somewhere....back in the car after sometime...the game will definatively be on......arguments will arise....ur wife not siding with u....u think.....oh what the heck ....its not my kid......u will get annoyed more and more.....u will give up arguing.....everybody happy.....only not u......i could go on and on....

Its just not there....i never drove with my children on mbike....bought a car when we had our firstborn....bought a infantseat...later 2 more......the moment i left....guess what......their way is the only way.....the car is a small confined playgarden...

Good luck...

Edited April 16, 2014 by benalibina

[Jip99]

Do you have any balls?

If you do, do it YOUR way, the right way.

You may, of course, be required by the hire company's rules to have a child seat - I don't know.

In any event, what were you going to do - go back to your missus and say "75% of posters on Thai Visa.com say we must have a child seat"

It is you against the Thais. Concede now for an easy life or put your foot down (if you believe it) and say the cousin and kid can only come if a child seat is installed and used at all times.

i wish you well, you are in a no win situation.

[vi2004]

I was asking if anybody knew what the legal implications are.

That was my only question. I was not looking to start a poll on this.

Don't worry about my balls .

I made myself clear to the cousin already.

But since benalibina is right about the scenario he/she described I will go with the "I don't take you" solution.

Because my time is too precious to always start a new fight or give new commands every time we stop the car or the little one is freeing himself from the infant seat.

But benalibina's description of the scenario that will definitely happen also made me smile.

It is something you will never have to go through in Europe in the first place.

[Som wat]

Grow some balls.

Tell them the kid and its mother are uninvited. End of story.

Share a vehicle with some uneducated buffoon who considers you stupid for thinking about the safety of her kid. No chance, tell the simpleton to F off.

[nonthaburial]

I feel very strongly about posts such as this. You rent the car . You are in charge ,you dictate the rules to your standards. I f that means the uneducated monkey or parents cannot see or want to see your logic and rules then fine THEY WALK. When and if the shit hits the fan, who is the ATM . Certainly not them. Lay your law down wear a pair !,

[vi2004]

Why are so many posters always talking about this "balls thing"?

I don't worry about my balls, so why do you?

And yes, maybe when saying "tending" in my OP I was definitely not clear enough.

The only way I will take them is when doing it my way.

So, don't worry anybody. I am European, raised responsibly in such matters. No infant seat, no kid.

Still, I was interested in the legal implications. Maybe this is something for the "Ask the lawyer" forum.

Thanks to all of you.

Edited April 16, 2014 by vi2004

[benalibina]

Why are so many posters always talking about this "balls thing"?

I don't worry about my balls, so why do you?

And yes, maybe when saying "tending" in my OP I was definitely not clear enough.

The only way I will take them is when doing it my way.

So, don't worry anybody. I am European, raised responsibly in such matters. No infant seat, no kid.

Still, I was interested in the legal implications. Maybe this is something for the "Ask the lawyer" forum.

Thanks to all of you.

"The balls thing"....haha....i guess, only a guess though....many have made certain mistakes themselves, or ar still making them momentarily, so in fact it is a reminder for themselves, conscious or subconsciously, to get/stay in control. Eye of the beholder !!

The subject you are referring to is for many not easy to deal with when they have a thai partner. I even guess it doesnt really matter if she is educated or not. Thais, my opinion of what i have seen, are very slack regarding safety. Many foreigners ...or adapt or not. When it has to do with children i did it good but many others told me when we spoke about a subject like this....what you worry about, this is thailand !! Made me speechless....this is only 1 of the differences between a careful western person and a thai. Bringing and picking up my kids from school for many years......the car is a playgarden for many, not all though, thai parents. They want children to be happy......happyyyyyyyy.

[benalibina]

One more advice....when you drive the car....keep all your thoughts, of what you witness on the roads to yourself....believe me...you will witness many irresponsible actions....i write this because thais dont like people complaining about other thais.....so when you go drive the car.....sabaai sabaai.....

[Som wat]

One more advice....when you drive the car....keep all your thoughts, of what you witness on the roads to yourself....believe me...you will witness many irresponsible actions....i write this because thais dont like people complaining about other thais.....so when you go drive the car.....sabaai sabaai.....

No need to the worry. You have the Farang Card stuck to your forehead.

Mentioning how the actions of unbelievably stupid, brain-dead Thais are.... well, unbelievably stupid, to other Thais, is one of the small pleasures in life.

Makes being around Thais just about worthwhile. Possibly.

[richard_smith237]

People are very adaptive... If you (Op) are completely inflexible on this matter, as you appear to be, those around you will adapt very quickly.

You will only need to explain to them once, after that simply refusing to take the child without a car seat and any adult without a seatbelt sends a simply understood statement.

With regards to legal implications and the main subject of this thread: I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there are any. However, there are personal and economic implications should you be involved in an accident and the child gets hurt. Its possible that you may find yourself covering medical costs etc... and of course there is the implication that should a child under your care and responsibility become injured, how guilty would you feel if you had not taken all reasonable measures of protection?

[Morakot]

People are very adaptive... If you (Op) are completely inflexible on this matter, as you appear to be, those around you will adapt very quickly.

You will only need to explain to them once, after that simply refusing to take the child without a car seat and any adult without a seatbelt sends a simply understood statement.

With regards to legal implications and the main subject of this thread: I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there are any. However, there are personal and economic implications should you be involved in an accident and the child gets hurt. Its possible that you may find yourself covering medical costs etc... and of course there is the implication that should a child under your care and responsibility become injured, how guilty would you feel if you had not taken all reasonable measures of protection?

Good post.

Yes, there are currently no legal requirements for car seats for infants/ children. However, most international car rental companies offer car seats for infants.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Morakot

[bina]

had same arguement with husband many years ago, with kids in back of pickup. not safe but they dont have to stand... so everytime they stood, we would stop suddenly enough to give them a shake. like operative conditioning, the periods of time between standing got longer. no arguements, notthing, just stopped short and didnt move until everyone sat. basically that was more or less how my father got us to settle down in car in long trips. too noisy? car pulled over. works a charm. as far as legal i dont as yet think there is car seat or safetbelt laws in thailand, but here in israel, any thai gets in my car (we have laws here), they buckle up. or the car doesnt go. pavlovian.

[eezergood]

I am sure there is no law, BUT you are farang with NO Thai DL - so should there be an accident, then you WILL need to think about your balls as they will be on the line!

[Jackie66]

I had something like this happen a few times when my wife wants to take our son to sit in the front in her lap because he wants to. So when this happens I slow down and drive so slow that everyone is overtaking us and honking. This is embarrassing enough for her to put him back where he should sit within minutes.

[Forethat]

Any person travelling in a vehicle driven by yours truly is to be strapped in, no exceptions. I have parental obligations, and I will not negotiate with morons who will transform into human wrecking balls crushing my neck in case of a sudden deceleration.

Why would you even want to engage with idiots like this in the first place? Tell the idiots to walk.

[I Like Thai]

Show her this. One passenger with no seat belt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFJ_jekBJ8

[belg]

stupidity... same same as the hard belief of : if you walk in the rain you will get sick because of the rain contains virus ?

i can reply with: the rain is dirty in the beginning because of the pollution, ok ... but do virri live in the air / high altitudes ?

anyone ?

[Phoenix1312]

What a stupid mother. Doesn't she care about the consequences if there is an accident.

[realenglish1]

This is the reality of it . I have always said I want kids in Kids Seats in the car. My wife said her sister will not do. So I just stopped pushing it. Then 3 weeks ago my brother was in an accident with his car and the kids where in it . Both kids got hurt No Child restraint. So you would think they would use it now

NOPE . So I have come to a conclusion its got to do with Highway education. We in the west had it hammered away that a child is safer with a child seat and They are .

Here the government simply does not care about it . Thus you get hurt kids all the time in crashes. And after they still don't care.

So I understand the stupidity with my wifes sister. Education

[gazzasore]

(I like Thai)

Well done

and there are many with Babies or Kids in and out of Child seats

They show even at 30kmh Children Die

[recycler]

People are very adaptive... If you (Op) are completely inflexible on this matter, as you appear to be, those around you will adapt very quickly.

You will only need to explain to them once, after that simply refusing to take the child without a car seat and any adult without a seatbelt sends a simply understood statement.

With regards to legal implications and the main subject of this thread: I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there are any. However, there are personal and economic implications should you be involved in an accident and the child gets hurt. Its possible that you may find yourself covering medical costs etc... and of course there is the implication that should a child under your care and responsibility become injured, how guilty would you feel if you had not taken all reasonable measures of protection?

Good post.

Yes, there are currently no legal requirements for car seats for infants/ children. However, most international car rental companies offer car seats for infants.

As far as I know it's only compulsory for people in the front seats of a car to wear safety belts.

Got stopped recently and was fined for my oldest son of 17 not wearing a safety belt on the front passenger seat. Nothing was said about my youngest son standing in front of him leaning on the dashboard nor about my wife, her sister and our daughter not waring safety belts on the backseat.

I also experience the continuing battle to get everybody in safety belts or child seats. Thais do not have any awareness of safety at all. Even showing videos on YouTube with children flying around during accidents will not have any effect one hour after viewing!

[Emster23]

Brought to mind the book "Superfreakanomics". They used statistical tools to examine everyday things. One conclusion borne out was that child car seats are no safer than just using regular seat belt on the kid. Plus huge percentage of child seats are not properly installed anyway.

[philcobkk]

I bet she's from Isaan

[how241]

Be firm, but smile all the time.

[Cylon]

Good on you for considering the safety of your passengers. If more people did , there would be less deaths on Thai roads.

[Evolare]

I agree with krisb tell her babyseat or their not going...my fiancees sister-in-law was the same. I said if anyone who is in my car and dont want to be buckled in get out of my car. End of discussion. First time they didnt take me seriosly at first now they all know its not a negotiation...and not up for discussion.

[Neeranam]

My kids never went in car seats.we couldn't afford one.

When they were very small I'd make sure the were in the arms of their mother in the back. When about 2, on a cushion with seatbelt.

When on a motorbike always in between us adults.

The farang way of thinking is over the top.

Op you worry too much, no sense of adventure.

Did you sit in a safety chair when a kid?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Neeranam

[NangrongJ]

I've had similar problems, even with Thai friends refusing to wear a belt. The solution is quite simple - no wear - no travel. No one gets into my car without wearing a belt. As has been stated, in the event of an accident it's the farang they target and you should do as much as you can to protect yourself legally and of course your passengers. It's basic safety education that is part of our culture but rocket science to them.