Confusion over extension of stay, permission of stay, and stamps with Non-O Visa

[Lite Beer]

The post by KevinB loaded with wrong information and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[ubonjoe]

The very first post was correct - you need to convert your multiple entry - Non-Immigrant O Visa into a permission to stay for 12 months (and meet the conditions - some post indicate the rules are different for women). I've been in the same position but let me warn you do it ASAP as they seem to have an internal rule that your need at least 3- 4 weeks on your current entry permit to PROCESS the PERMISSION TO STAY DUE TO MARRIAGE (or PARENT OF THAI CHILDREN).

I went in with only 10 days left on my Entry stamp and they told me I couldn't do it.

GOOD LUCK - I agree with you Border runs are a real drag.

You do not convert anything. You apply for an extension of stay of the 90 day permit to stay.you get your visa.

There is no minimum amount of time remaining on your entry to apply. The only restriction is that you normally cannot do it any earlier that 30 days.

It have done 6 extensions of stay based upon marriage and none of the applications were done more than 2 weeks early. My last one was finished 4 days before my existing extension ended.

[ubonjoe]

UBONJOE POSTED

"I suspect somebody at an embassy or consulate. sold you on the multiple entry visa and possibly gave you false info on how it worked.

You really only needed a single entry visa.

As said if you plan on making several trips out of the country you can apply for a multiple re-entry permit (3800 baht) or a single (1000 baht).

From my recent experience it is clear that (at my Immigration Office) you cannot get an Extension of Stay UNLESS YOU HAVE A MULTIPLE ENTRY NON IMMIGRANT O VISA IN YOUR PASSPORT. So the OP is wrong about only needing a SINGLE ENTRY VISA. I had the Immigration Official at the Thai Embassy I visited to get my Non-Immigrant O Visa inform me Incorrectly. Enter Thailand on SINGLE ENTRY VISA and the officials at the airport stamp it USED - when you get to Immigration you can't apply for the Extension of Stay because you don't have a valid Visa.

What the poster is right about is that when you have your 12 month Permission to Stay you need to get a Multiple re-entry Permit and as others have reported it takes about 15 - 20 mins at the Main International Airport on departure.

Totally false info.

Almost everybody gets their first extensions done with single entry visas. I did it myself.

[ubonjoe]

By the way one other observation on this string - there are difference conditions applied to various passports / citizenship and some of the folk responding on TV often forget this. Many passports only get 30 day visas on arrival - some are given 90 days if they ask for it - respectable looking with a fully paid up 3 month return ticket, no problem - dodgy back-packer, difficult. For many passports this is not even an option - 3 and 6 month stays must be based on Visas obtained (and paid for) outside the Country

I live in Thailand when not working on projects overseas and often want to stay with my family longer than one month - If I remember to ask at the airport I can get 2 months no problem (I normally have a 6 month Multiple entry Visa in my Passport) Equally I've never had a problem going into Immigration before my entry permit expires and getting an extension (or just paying an over-stay fine at the airport if I over run a few days). Having multiple entry Visas in my passport has now created another problem for me in boarding a plane bound for Thailand I'm asked where is your current Visa for Thailand - saying "I Don't need one to enter for under a month" (with 4 or 5 old 6 month visas)only causes problems - they have to look it up in a book.

Hence my decision to switch to a 12 month Extension of Stay with Multiple re-Entry stamps.

Of course there are different rules for people from different countries. Most cannot enter the country without a visa. Some can get a 30 day visa exempt entry by air.

Some can apply for a VOA and get 15 days by paying 1000 baht. Others can get more if their country has a bilateral agreement with Thailand. Some only get 14 days with a bilateral agreement.

You cannot just ask for a longer entry. The immigration officer will stamp what is allowed.

You applied for and got a one year extension of stay. And then applied for a multiple re-entry permit.

[KevinB]

the pool responded

Kevin

Your post reveals a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

I note that you are a Senior member but I'm not confused. I'm actually reporting what has happened to me over the last couple of years. It seems strange that many of the older posters get upset when "corrected". The truth is, as many of the members of TV report on many of the Visa topics on this forum: the confusion is often the result of varied responses from different Immigration Officers, in a variety of Immigration Offices across Thailand and from Visa Officers stationed at numerous Thai Embassy's across the globe.

Maybe I'm being misunderstood but I'm reporting about what has happened to me - I'm sorry that it conflicts with other posters experience - which I'm sure has been based on their actual experience. The point is that it is that the situation is variable - it even varies at the same Immigration Office between the Officers stationed there.

There must be few posters who have got Non-Immigrant O Visas at the variety of Embassies I have - I'm an active international consultant always traveling and working in different countries: London, Frankfurt, Paris, Pretoria, Doha (Qatar), Nairobi, Abuja (Nigeria), Manila, Beijing, Auckland, Sydney, Jakarta, Seoul, Hanoi and a couple of places I think I've forgotten and would have to look through my 2 or three full business passports to remember them. Equally I must have meet and dealt with more Immigration officials than most the Expats living here - over the last 8 years I generally depart and arrive in Bangkok at least 12 times a year and am at a Immigration office at least a couple of times a year.

I can report with no confusion or misunderstanding than many of the International users of TV in different parts of the World are going to find real Variation in what they are told at each of these Embassies they use and that, when they go into an Immigration Office here in Thailand they very well may be disappointed that what the were told (and what the read on TV) may very well be different from the reality.

I might add that is what the Original poster of this string noted and she got some pretty sharp responses from some of the regulars.

[MikeandDow]

the pool responded

Kevin

Your post reveals a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

I note that you are a Senior member but I'm not confused. I'm actually reporting what has happened to me over the last couple of years. It seems strange that many of the older posters get upset when "corrected". The truth is, as many of the members of TV report on many of the Visa topics on this forum: the confusion is often the result of varied responses from different Immigration Officers, in a variety of Immigration Offices across Thailand and from Visa Officers stationed at numerous Thai Embassy's across the globe.

Maybe I'm being misunderstood but I'm reporting about what has happened to me - I'm sorry that it conflicts with other posters experience - which I'm sure has been based on their actual experience. The point is that it is that the situation is variable - it even varies at the same Immigration Office between the Officers stationed there.

There must be few posters who have got Non-Immigrant O Visas at the variety of Embassies I have - I'm an active international consultant always traveling and working in different countries: London, Frankfurt, Paris, Pretoria, Doha (Qatar), Nairobi, Abuja (Nigeria), Manila, Beijing, Auckland, Sydney, Jakarta, Seoul, Hanoi and a couple of places I think I've forgotten and would have to look through my 2 or three full business passports to remember them. Equally I must have meet and dealt with more Immigration officials than most the Expats living here - over the last 8 years I generally depart and arrive in Bangkok at least 12 times a year and am at a Immigration office at least a couple of times a year.

I can report with no confusion or misunderstanding than many of the International users of TV in different parts of the World are going to find real Variation in what they are told at each of these Embassies they use and that, when they go into an Immigration Office here in Thailand they very well may be disappointed that what the were told (and what the read on TV) may very well be different from the reality.

I might add that is what the Original poster of this string noted and she got some pretty sharp responses from some of the regulars.

wow all the info you have posted is total incorrect, you are more confused that the OP, and I don't think you are be misunderstood, its you do not know what you are talking about.

[TerryLH]

"wow all the info you have posted is total incorrect, you are more confused that the OP, and I don't think you are be misunderstood, its you do not know what you are talking about. "

Can you please list the specific parts of the post that you quoted that are 'total incorrect' (sic)?

Thank you.

[MikeandDow]

"wow all the info you have posted is total incorrect, you are more confused that the OP, and I don't think you are be misunderstood, its you do not know what you are talking about. "

Can you please list the specific parts of the post that you quoted that are 'total incorrect' (sic)?

Thank you.

And why should I do that, if you can not read the posts and see the mistakes you need to learn about what in your passport,

[KevinB]

Terry H - don't waste your time - there are so many of the regular posters on TV who know absolutely EVERYTHING. No good arguing with them or asking then to be explain the basis of their "knowledge". The level of "trolling" on TV is so high that many of us, who log on a regular basis, don't even bother to post our own views because they may offend one of those with "supreme and unchallengeable knowledge". But I do think it is a bit unfair having folk post views which will cause some people reading this site to have problems when they come to Thailand.

I went to the Samut Prakan Immigration Office (for us living out in the many new cluster home projects out along Bangna Trat Rd - this is where we are meant to go) in late January 2014 to get a 12 month extension of stay (I have a Thai partner - we are not married and we have 2 children). I had a 6 month visa multiple entry Non-Immigrant O Visa issued in Doha, Qatar. I was told that as I only had 10 working days in the time left on my Visa (actually 14 calendar days) they could not process my application. I was with my partner and because this information was different from my last visit in December (when they queried that my balance in my bank account had dipped THB20 below THB400,000 for a week - bank charges) we politely asked to see the office in charge. We were told by him in both flawless English and Thai that this was the case - that it now takes at least 4 weeks for them to process an application for extension of stay. Everything else was in order - my sons birth certificates, my bank book, letter from the bank about my cash assets , my household register, the photos of the family etc - but there was insufficient time to process things.

While in Nigeria on a consultancy I went to the Thai Embassy in Abuja to get a new Non-Immigrant O Visa. Because of special conditions there (all visa applicants are required to have a certificate from the local Drug Enforcement authorities that they have not committed a drug related offence in the last year) I had to speak to the Officer in Charge of the Visa section. I explained my case to him and he waived the requirement to have a the drug clearance certificate (only required for Nigerian Citizens) . In our discussions he confirmed that the immigration Office in Samut Prakan was correct that about 4 weeks are now required to process an extension of Stay because the Immigration Department had recently centralised parts of the authorisation process after some irregular activities had been noted at some provincial offices (he had just been back in BKK for some training). I had applied for a multiple entry visa - he told me I only needed a SINGLE ENTRY Visa. So on his advice and because multiple entry Visas in Nigeria are more expensive than in other places I've got them - that is what I got.

On my return to Thailand in March - the very next day after my arrival - I went back to Samut Prakan with all my documents plus my partner and two children and one of our maids to help to look after our over-active two year old while we saw the Officer-in-Charge. This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

Now all the old and grumpy posters who know so much about everything can put that in your pipe and smoke it. But I can tell you there are some people out there who are going to appreciate that I have bothered to post what has, and is happening to me, - because unlike these older folk who know so much, these people maybe in a similar position to me. Good Luck folks but remember what ever you read here on ThaiVisa DEPENDS on which Embassy you go to and also DEPENDS which Immigration office you go to.

PS - I don't expect an apology from those learned and cock-sure folk that know everything about the Kingdom of Thailand's immigration law. It's slowing changing as new regulations come in - so let others share their experiences without having some grumpy bugger jump down their throat.

[partington]

This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

No-one denies that local Immigration offices sometimes make up their own rules, and it is useful to have postings warning people of the misinformation and problems they might encounter.

Nevertheless , what you are saying, and what you were told in this office is quite wrong. You are applying for an extension of the period that you have been allowed to stay in the country, NOT for any alteration to any visa.

Therefore the fact that you have no valid visa is completely irrelevant. Everybody who has applied for extensions on the basis of retirement for years on end ceased to have a valid visa many years ago, and there are no problems in applying for these extensions in perpetuity.

You are confusing the validity period of a visa (the period during which you are able to use it to make an entry into the country), with the period you are allowed to stay after making this entry. The period you are allowed to stay is still active and valid, and this is what you are extending. Your visa validity status is no longer relevant, it just means you could not use it to make an entry into the country.

[MikeandDow]

Terry H - don't waste your time - there are so many of the regular posters on TV who know absolutely EVERYTHING. No good arguing with them or asking then to be explain the basis of their "knowledge". The level of "trolling" on TV is so high that many of us, who log on a regular basis, don't even bother to post our own views because they may offend one of those with "supreme and unchallengeable knowledge". But I do think it is a bit unfair having folk post views which will cause some people reading this site to have problems when they come to Thailand.

I went to the Samut Prakan Immigration Office (for us living out in the many new cluster home projects out along Bangna Trat Rd - this is where we are meant to go) in late January 2014 to get a 12 month extension of stay (I have a Thai partner - we are not married and we have 2 children). I had a 6 month visa multiple entry Non-Immigrant O Visa issued in Doha, Qatar. I was told that as I only had 10 working days in the time left on my Visa (actually 14 calendar days) they could not process my application. I was with my partner and because this information was different from my last visit in December (when they queried that my balance in my bank account had dipped THB20 below THB400,000 for a week - bank charges) we politely asked to see the office in charge. We were told by him in both flawless English and Thai that this was the case - that it now takes at least 4 weeks for them to process an application for extension of stay. Everything else was in order - my sons birth certificates, my bank book, letter from the bank about my cash assets , my household register, the photos of the family etc - but there was insufficient time to process things.

While in Nigeria on a consultancy I went to the Thai Embassy in Abuja to get a new Non-Immigrant O Visa. Because of special conditions there (all visa applicants are required to have a certificate from the local Drug Enforcement authorities that they have not committed a drug related offence in the last year) I had to speak to the Officer in Charge of the Visa section. I explained my case to him and he waived the requirement to have a the drug clearance certificate (only required for Nigerian Citizens) . In our discussions he confirmed that the immigration Office in Samut Prakan was correct that about 4 weeks are now required to process an extension of Stay because the Immigration Department had recently centralised parts of the authorisation process after some irregular activities had been noted at some provincial offices (he had just been back in BKK for some training). I had applied for a multiple entry visa - he told me I only needed a SINGLE ENTRY Visa. So on his advice and because multiple entry Visas in Nigeria are more expensive than in other places I've got them - that is what I got.

On my return to Thailand in March - the very next day after my arrival - I went back to Samut Prakan with all my documents plus my partner and two children and one of our maids to help to look after our over-active two year old while we saw the Officer-in-Charge. This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

Now all the old and grumpy posters who know so much about everything can put that in your pipe and smoke it. But I can tell you there are some people out there who are going to appreciate that I have bothered to post what has, and is happening to me, - because unlike these older folk who know so much, these people maybe in a similar position to me. Good Luck folks but remember what ever you read here on ThaiVisa DEPENDS on which Embassy you go to and also DEPENDS which Immigration office you go to.

PS - I don't expect an apology from those learned and cock-sure folk that know everything about the Kingdom of Thailand's immigration law. It's slowing changing as new regulations come in - so let others share their experiences without having some grumpy bugger jump down their throat.

You need to reread ubonjoe post what he is saying is 100% correct you can get a extension on a single entry non o, it is correct that immigration at the airport stamp it used, its finish you do not need it, at the airport immigration would have stamped your passport with a permission to stay 90day THAT is what you are going to immigration for TO EXTEND THAT NOT THE VISA but its not clear on WHAT bases you are going to extend your permission to stay need to be Married if its going to be marriage extension, and it does not depend on the immigration office it is you need to understand visa's permission to stay and extensions, from a grumpy old man learn! and I don't need an apology.

[MikeandDow]

This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

No-one denies that local Immigration offices sometimes make up their own rules, and it is useful to have postings warning people of the misinformation and problems they might encounter.

Nevertheless , what you are saying, and what you were told in this office is quite wrong. You are applying for an extension of the period that you have been allowed to stay in the country, NOT for any alteration to any visa.

Therefore the fact that you have no valid visa is completely irrelevant. Everybody who has applied for extensions on the basis of retirement for years on end ceased to have a valid visa many years ago, and there are no problems in applying for these extensions in perpetuity.

You are confusing the validity period of a visa (the period during which you are able to use it to make an entry into the country), with the period you are allowed to stay after making this entry. The period you are allowed to stay is still active and valid, and this is what you are extending. Your visa validity status is no longer relevant, it just means you could not use it to make an entry into the country.

100% correct you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink !!!

[MikeandDow]

Terry H - don't waste your time - there are so many of the regular posters on TV who know absolutely EVERYTHING. No good arguing with them or asking then to be explain the basis of their "knowledge". The level of "trolling" on TV is so high that many of us, who log on a regular basis, don't even bother to post our own views because they may offend one of those with "supreme and unchallengeable knowledge". But I do think it is a bit unfair having folk post views which will cause some people reading this site to have problems when they come to Thailand.

I went to the Samut Prakan Immigration Office (for us living out in the many new cluster home projects out along Bangna Trat Rd - this is where we are meant to go) in late January 2014 to get a 12 month extension of stay (I have a Thai partner - we are not married and we have 2 children). I had a 6 month visa multiple entry Non-Immigrant O Visa issued in Doha, Qatar. I was told that as I only had 10 working days in the time left on my Visa (actually 14 calendar days) they could not process my application. I was with my partner and because this information was different from my last visit in December (when they queried that my balance in my bank account had dipped THB20 below THB400,000 for a week - bank charges) we politely asked to see the office in charge. We were told by him in both flawless English and Thai that this was the case - that it now takes at least 4 weeks for them to process an application for extension of stay. Everything else was in order - my sons birth certificates, my bank book, letter from the bank about my cash assets , my household register, the photos of the family etc - but there was insufficient time to process things.

While in Nigeria on a consultancy I went to the Thai Embassy in Abuja to get a new Non-Immigrant O Visa. Because of special conditions there (all visa applicants are required to have a certificate from the local Drug Enforcement authorities that they have not committed a drug related offence in the last year) I had to speak to the Officer in Charge of the Visa section. I explained my case to him and he waived the requirement to have a the drug clearance certificate (only required for Nigerian Citizens) . In our discussions he confirmed that the immigration Office in Samut Prakan was correct that about 4 weeks are now required to process an extension of Stay because the Immigration Department had recently centralised parts of the authorisation process after some irregular activities had been noted at some provincial offices (he had just been back in BKK for some training). I had applied for a multiple entry visa - he told me I only needed a SINGLE ENTRY Visa. So on his advice and because multiple entry Visas in Nigeria are more expensive than in other places I've got them - that is what I got.

On my return to Thailand in March - the very next day after my arrival - I went back to Samut Prakan with all my documents plus my partner and two children and one of our maids to help to look after our over-active two year old while we saw the Officer-in-Charge. This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

Now all the old and grumpy posters who know so much about everything can put that in your pipe and smoke it. But I can tell you there are some people out there who are going to appreciate that I have bothered to post what has, and is happening to me, - because unlike these older folk who know so much, these people maybe in a similar position to me. Good Luck folks but remember what ever you read here on ThaiVisa DEPENDS on which Embassy you go to and also DEPENDS which Immigration office you go to.

PS - I don't expect an apology from those learned and cock-sure folk that know everything about the Kingdom of Thailand's immigration law. It's slowing changing as new regulations come in - so let others share their experiences without having some grumpy bugger jump down their throat.

rereading your post you say you have 400,000 in the bank which I assume you are trying for a marriage extension, I hope you realise that you NEED to be Married legally. It normally takes 4 weeks to get a marriage extension a retirement extension can be done in 1 day but you need to have 800,000 in the bank, read and learn

[TerryLH]

Kevin,

I wasn't posting about anything you said. I was posting about something MandD posted about what you said.

In the post he/she/they were referring to there wasn't many problems with facts since you were clearly stating your opinion and what had happened to you.

You still aren't correct in some of the stuff you've posted, but I'm an old guy and you aren't listening to any of 'us', apparently. Think what you want, but you've been given some good advice on how things work. Embassies are well known for giving out bad, misleading or outdated info. They deal with visas, not extensions.

If what you're doing is working for you, and you're happy with it, continue on. No reason to change just because...

The 4 weeks you've mentioned is an 'under consideration' period that has been given for extensions for marriage, and I assume for 'child', for years.

You also stated you went to immigration right after arriving. They normally don't do extensions until the last 30 days of you permission to stay.

"And why should I do that, if you can not read the posts and see the mistakes you need to learn about what in your passport,"

MandD, I wasn't interested in 'posts'. Just the one. Post #36. I'm having an 'old guy' moment, and it was annoying.

Besides, I didn't really think you could come up with anything. Appears I was right, yes?

[thepool]

Kevin will , I am sure report back when the knots have been unraveled !

[KevinB]

Well folk now you can see what I'm talking about - you have to be careful that you don't cross the guys who think this is their site - NO ALTERNATE VIEWS ALLOWED. - And that ThaiVisa is Not open to members of the Public looking for some clarity in the confusion of getting to stay in Thailand when you are not old enough (or want to) Retire

At no point have I said that I was applying for an Extension of Stay on the basis of marriage - all my Non-Immigrant O Visas are issued on the basis that I am the father of two children both born here in Thailand. Promise !!!!!! - this is one of the conditions by which the Kingdom of Thailand issues Non-Immigrant O Visas. If folk actually read the posts they object to - before they reply they may have noticed that I was talking about my sons and my sons' birth certificates, stating clearly that I'm not married to my partner. and Yes !!!!!!! you can get a 12 month Extension of Stay on the basis that you are the parent of children resident here. And yes!!!! like an extension to stay when legally married Thai Immigration requires you to prove you have THB 400,000 in a local account for a number of months.

Also at no point did I say that I was trying to "change" my Visa into an Extension of Stay - that's what I'm actually applying for. In fact that what Canadian Girl 2 (the original poster) has to apply for, and my original advice to her (if you read back) is to hurry in and do it ASAP before her current 90 day expires.

And Terry H - nothing I said was directed at you - I was merely advising that you were wasting your time asking some posters to actually say what was WRONG in a post that they had just trashed (as I see you have noticed in your latest post) - that's the way it is on TV - some posters just say "it is all rubbish" - when it is actually what happened to someone. I was polite at the beginning even stating in my first post that the first reply to the original post was dead right. if fact I only objected to Ubonjoe's comment that you could do this with a SINGLE ENTRY VISA - which on the basis of my experience you CAN'T DO at Samut Prakan immigration Office.

Hey all you grumpy old guys - I've enjoyed the banter but seriously you should read what is written and give some space to people actually sharing what happened to them - not what they think or assume about the immigration laws of Thailand. .

[KevinB]

To the Pool I will definitely post the end of the saga - when I get there.

In fact I'll share it blow by blow. Even if it does mean a string of negative and grumpy comments.

Terry H - I entered Thailand in March on a Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa valid for 1 Month - which is why I shot in the next day.

[MikeandDow]

Kevin,

I wasn't posting about anything you said. I was posting about something MandD posted about what you said.

In the post he/she/they were referring to there wasn't many problems with facts since you were clearly stating your opinion and what had happened to you.

You still aren't correct in some of the stuff you've posted, but I'm an old guy and you aren't listening to any of 'us', apparently. Think what you want, but you've been given some good advice on how things work. Embassies are well known for giving out bad, misleading or outdated info. They deal with visas, not extensions.

If what you're doing is working for you, and you're happy with it, continue on. No reason to change just because...

The 4 weeks you've mentioned is an 'under consideration' period that has been given for extensions for marriage, and I assume for 'child', for years.

You also stated you went to immigration right after arriving. They normally don't do extensions until the last 30 days of you permission to stay.

"And why should I do that, if you can not read the posts and see the mistakes you need to learn about what in your passport,"

MandD, I wasn't interested in 'posts'. Just the one. Post #36. I'm having an 'old guy' moment, and it was annoying.

Besides, I didn't really think you could come up with anything. Appears I was right, yes?

The guy does not understand, yet he is giving advice, wow!!!! he should just put the question what he wants and read and learn, ask questions by all mean, I think my shock treatment worked he started to explain what he wanted, still confusing by the way, not sure if he is basing the extension on marriage, but he states he is not married ??, or is he basing it on having kids,? does he realise that if this is so he need to go to court to get the kids legitimized, I am assuming he travels in and out of Thailand and spends 1 to 2 months here, if this is so getting an extension is not the way to go. if he can not understand how extensions work he is going to have a hell of a time doing 90 day reports in and out of the country, I think the best for him is if he can get a mulit entry 12 month non o visa not sure on what base or if he could get one as a lot less mucking about well that's my 2 pence worth if he does not listen good luck.

[MikeandDow]

Well folk now you can see what I'm talking about - you have to be careful that you don't cross the guys who think this is their site - NO ALTERNATE VIEWS ALLOWED. - And that ThaiVisa is Not open to members of the Public looking for some clarity in the confusion of getting to stay in Thailand when you are not old enough (or want to) Retire

At no point have I said that I was applying for an Extension of Stay on the basis of marriage - all my Non-Immigrant O Visas are issued on the basis that I am the father of two children both born here in Thailand. Promise !!!!!! - this is one of the conditions by which the Kingdom of Thailand issues Non-Immigrant O Visas. If folk actually read the posts they object to - before they reply they may have noticed that I was talking about my sons and my sons' birth certificates, stating clearly that I'm not married to my partner. and Yes !!!!!!! you can get a 12 month Extension of Stay on the basis that you are the parent of children resident here. And yes!!!! like an extension to stay when legally married Thai Immigration requires you to prove you have THB 400,000 in a local account for a number of months.

Also at no point did I say that I was trying to "change" my Visa into an Extension of Stay - that's what I'm actually applying for. In fact that what Canadian Girl 2 (the original poster) has to apply for, and my original advice to her (if you read back) is to hurry in and do it ASAP before her current 90 day expires.

And Terry H - nothing I said was directed at you - I was merely advising that you were wasting your time asking some posters to actually say what was WRONG in a post that they had just trashed (as I see you have noticed in your latest post) - that's the way it is on TV - some posters just say "it is all rubbish" - when it is actually what happened to someone. I was polite at the beginning even stating in my first post that the first reply to the original post was dead right. if fact I only objected to Ubonjoe's comment that you could do this with a SINGLE ENTRY VISA - which on the basis of my experience you CAN'T DO at Samut Prakan immigration Office.

Hey all you grumpy old guys - I've enjoyed the banter but seriously you should read what is written and give some space to people actually sharing what happened to them - not what they think or assume about the immigration laws of Thailand. .

I hope you realise that because your name is on a birth cert does not mean you will get an extension or a non o you have to legitimized the kids and to make it plain what do you want

[partington]

At no point have I said that I was applying for an Extension of Stay on the basis of marriage - all my Non-Immigrant O Visas are issued on the basis that I am the father of two children both born here in Thailand. Promise !!!!!! - this is one of the conditions by which the Kingdom of Thailand issues Non-Immigrant O Visas. [Edit]

Yes !!!!!!! you can get a 12 month Extension of Stay on the basis that you are the parent of children resident here. And yes!!!! like an extension to stay when legally married Thai Immigration requires you to prove you have THB 400,000 in a local account for a number of months.

Also at no point did I say that I was trying to "change" my Visa into an Extension of Stay - that's what I'm actually applying for.[Edit]

if fact I only objected to Ubonjoe's comment that you could do this with a SINGLE ENTRY VISA - which on the basis of my experience you CAN'T DO at Samut Prakan immigration Office.

You are still not making any sense.

The reason why you extend a permission to stay does not have to be the same reason that you were awarded the original visa in the first place, so your first quoted point is irrelevant. You can enter on a visa awarded on the grounds of marriage to a Thai, and then apply for an extension of permitted period to stay on the basis of retirement without reference to your spouse, if you want. You can enter on a visa awarded to study Thai folk song, and then apply for an extension of permission to stay based on marriage to a Thai, if you want. The two don't have to be connected because the visa and the permission to stay are two different things!

If you are inside the country, and have entered on a visa given to you on the basis of having Thai children , this doesn't alter the fact that you are applying for an extension of your permission to stay, not changing your original visa , and the reason you were awarded your original visa doesn't matter. You do not "change" a visa into an extension in any case-this has no meaning.

The information you were given about needing a valid visa to apply for an extension is wrong. Many people apply for extensions of stay without a current valid visa. i have done so myself twice already.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Either you must accept that the information you were given about needing a valid visa to extend your period of permission to stay is wrong, or you are saying that the hundreds of people who apply every year without a currently valid visa, including me, are wrong.

It can't be both!

The only criteria relevant to this discussion is that you must apply for the extension of your permission to stay before your current permission to stay ends (providing you also fulfill the criteria for the basis of the extension: marriage, retirement. etc.). It has nothing to do with whether your visa validity has run out - they are independent issues!

[ubonjoe]

To the Pool I will definitely post the end of the saga - when I get there.

In fact I'll share it blow by blow. Even if it does mean a string of negative and grumpy comments.

Terry H - I entered Thailand in March on a Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa valid for 1 Month - which is why I shot in the next day.

You have mentioned that you are trying to get an extension of stay based upon have having a Thai child with your name on the birth certificate.

You have said you are not married to the ,mother which means in order to get the extension of stay you must of legitimized your parenthood to qualify for the extension. Have you done this?

Perhaps that is the reason you have not been able to get the extension.

It certainly is not because you had a single entry visa or was beyond the expiration date of a multiple entry visa. No immigration office would deny doing an extension on that basis.

The same can be said for not having enough time left on your permit to stay when you applied.

There will be a 30 day under consideration period after you apply but the report date can be after your permit to stay date ends. All of mine have like that because the office here starts the 30 days from the date the permit to stay ends.

[TerryLH]

I think I see the problem.

Kevin said:

"Terry H - I entered Thailand in March on a Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa valid for 1 Month - which is why I shot in the next day."

Kevin's points;

You can't get an extension without a visa, meaning you can't enter on a single entry because by the time you extend it's been used, hence no visa.

He says he entered on a single entry visa in March and was given that info.

Kevin, in March immigration was correct. You can't get an extension unless you have (entered on) a visa. They were correct to not allow you to extend. You didn't enter on a visa. You say - in the quote above - that you got 30 days for an O Visa.

An O Visa would have given you 90 days. 30 days would be given for a visa exempt entry, meaning that you either didn't have a visa or the immigration officer didn't see it, making it the same as no visa.

Some offices will allow you to 'convert' a visa exempt entry to a non imm entry, giving you 90 days. Within the last 30 days of that permission to stay you can return to immigration and apply for an extension.

The conversion will cost 2000 baht, the extension for a year 1900 baht.

Perhaps the office you used doesn't do conversions. Not all of them do them.

If any of you other grumpy old guys disagree, please chime in, but I think this might have been the problem

Terry

[ubonjoe]

Only Bangkok immigration will do a conversion to a non immigrant visa entry based upon marriage or having Thai child.

[ubonjoe]

Going back and rereading his posts it seems he may never of had a non-o visa.

One of his visas seems to of been a tourist visa since he mentioned it was only valid for 6 months for 2 entries.

[MikeandDow]

I think I see the problem.

Kevin said:

"Terry H - I entered Thailand in March on a Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa valid for 1 Month - which is why I shot in the next day."

Kevin's points;

You can't get an extension without a visa, meaning you can't enter on a single entry because by the time you extend it's been used, hence no visa.

He says he entered on a single entry visa in March and was given that info.

Kevin, in March immigration was correct. You can't get an extension unless you have (entered on) a visa. They were correct to not allow you to extend. You didn't enter on a visa. You say - in the quote above - that you got 30 days for an O Visa.

An O Visa would have given you 90 days. 30 days would be given for a visa exempt entry, meaning that you either didn't have a visa or the immigration officer didn't see it, making it the same as no visa.

Some offices will allow you to 'convert' a visa exempt entry to a non imm entry, giving you 90 days. Within the last 30 days of that permission to stay you can return to immigration and apply for an extension.

The conversion will cost 2000 baht, the extension for a year 1900 baht.

Perhaps the office you used doesn't do conversions. Not all of them do them.

If any of you other grumpy old guys disagree, please chime in, but I think this might have been the problem

Terry

Terry, this guy does not know what he has in his passport, he does not know the difference between a tourist visa ,a non o or a permission to stay stamp ect, that is the problem, think it would be better for him to scan the stamps in his passport, he is making this more complicated that it is, also not listing to posters that is a big problem, I believe also he does not know about legitimizing the kids that he needs to go to court to get this done,

[KevinB]

Sorry guys for responding so late but I'm currently on the other side of the World at the moment and it is Easter here and the community I'm in really celebrates today - Easter Sunday (been a real cultural blast).

MikeandDow - I've seen your posts on other topics on TV and one which went something like "I know I'm right. Isn't that arrogant" - so I fearfully correct you. The requirement to have children "legitimized" in a court is being considered in Thailand but according to my informants in Immigration this has not been passed into law yet - I've just remembered you are strong on that point and demand to be quoted the relevant Legal statue (I can't). I gather the delay is partly caused by the current political impasse but you are right the Department is hoping to fully implement this requirement later in 2014. This provision, when implemented will require (for your information) a formal declaration before a court that you take full financial responsibility for your children as long as they remain minors. This court documentation will provide a level of legal protection for the child (and their legal guardians) to take legal action against their father (or their fathers estate) in another country - in other words their mothers will even be able to get maintenance orders in for example the UK. This "new requirement" will have to be done before a 'high court' (not sure how the court system works) - and the previous lower level village court process already done by some and simple documentation drawn up by local lawyers will have to be formalised at this higher level. But this is not yet applied and is not being applied to me.

My two sons are already "legitimised" to an extent fully accepted by Immigration in that I have registered them with my Embassy (for future dual citizenship rights and getting them included on my passport). This process has involved a number of legal documents and lawyers drawing up swore statements / affidavits etc. including those from their mother. Those signed by me undertake responsibility for them in a way acceptable to the laws of my country's legal system which are much more demanding of children's and maternal right than Thailand. But you are right that when the new regulations are formally implemented I'll have to get these document officially translated into Thai and go through getting them authorised by the local Court system (another gravy train for Thai lawyers in the pipeline).

Now there will I'm sure be a lot of debate on this on TV when this does become law because currently Thai birth certificates are acceptable "proof" of parenthood especially accompanied by an official conversion of the fathers name into Thai characters by a certified Government translator - which in my case is used on both birth certificates with my ID number.

Now before you jump all over me again - you and others have already ruled that I've been lied to / incorrectly informed / given wrong information by Immigration and the information above (about a change in requirements in the pipeline) comes from the same source who has ruled that I had insufficient time (only 14 days) on my current Visa to process an application for a year extension to stay on the basis of being responsible for my children. AND that they can't now process my application because I have a Single entry Visa. So before you start insisting I'm some dumb idiot who doesn't understand - just accept that some offices and officers in Immigration and in Thai embassies across this world have a different interpretation of the immigration law and how it is implemented.

By the way to remind you guys - this is what Canadian Girl 2 originally posted about - the confusing state of how the Immigration law is applied to people wanting to legally stay in Thailand with out having to do endless Visa runs.

As I've promised I'll keep you informed on TV about my progress.

Must go I have an Easter party tonight and a full public Holiday tomorrow to recover.

[KevinB]

Oh by the way in Nigeria they often only issue one month Visas - for Tourism, business, etc and I've discovered to my detriment Non- Immigrant O Visas as well.

[thepool]

KevinB

You are clearly very well informed and in no need of "advice"

Many will be very interested in the progress you make and the detail about how your objective is achieved.

[ubonjoe]

A embassy or consulate only issue the visa as non immigrant, tourist or transit.. They do not determine the length of stay you get when entering the country immigration does that when you enter. A non immigrant visa allows a 90 day entry (non-oa one year) and that is what immigration will give. A tourist visa will allow a maximum entry of 60 days but for those from some countries will only get 30 days. A transit visa allows a 30 day entry.

You apparently only got a 30 day visa exempt entry because you did not have a valid visa on entry unless they issued you a transit visa.

There is no mention of the length of stay in this file from the embassy website: http://thaiembassynigeria.com/eng/pdf/Visa-regualation-2014.pdf

In 6 on the first page it states this "The period of stay depends on the type of visa and is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port

of entry".

This MFA webpage gives the length of allowed stay for each visa category. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

[KevinB]

Ok - you guys are up early and straight on to TV. Me I'm just staggering in from a great party where we had real fun with a egg hunt with cryptic clues - must have taken the hosts weeks to think them all out. Some were brilliant mind teasers.

the pool - I'm certain I'll need advice before this is finished because as I go along things are getting more complicated as it all unfolds. But I'd really like the advice to be based on what is actually happening to me not on what some of the members think should be happening according to how they see things "must be" from their past experiences. You have to accept that things are changing - Thailand is tightening up on those wishing to stay here. I have absolutely no reason to lie or fabricate what is happening to me in my posts - I'm telling it as it is - basically this is an on-going mystery to me and I'm struggling to understand it. And at times, like Canadian Girl 2, I'm getting at bit peed off by the different and often conflicting information / feedback I'm getting from various official sources.

Ubonjoe - I have realised that Visas issued in Nigeria are treated a bit differently to others I have had over the last few years from other places round the world - all you have to know is how many Nigerians are currently "guests" in the famous Bangkok Hilton to understand why that might be. But that is where one of my medium term assignments are at the moment so needs dictate musts.

But you have cleared up one thing - for which I was berated earlier about - you can ask the immigration official at the airport to not just stamp a one month entry in the passport but ask for a longer period based on the "Enter Before" date on the Visa. Given the 4 weeks period of consideration for an Extension of Stay request based on family support I'll try 6 weeks on my next entry. And I'll ask for a multiple entry visa (which my secretary has found out on the phone back in Nigeria will require me to have a special interview with the Visa officer at the Embassy) - in Abuja they generally only issue single entry Visas there.

I'll keep you posted.