Australian white Chardonnay wine in fact Vietnamese pineapple alcohol

[Donnie Brasco]

Where's the Thai Ministry of Health?

Read John le Carre's The Constant Gardener.

The, um, Thai Ministry of ,ah, Health is somewhere in there disguised as a different ministry in another country.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[xen]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

Actually, that would be the best way to use pesticides. In the system called Integrated Pest Management pesticides are only used early on so that by the time the plant is ready to be harvested, the chemicals are out of the plant's system.

Could i add something about Integrated Pest Management. It is a approach to pest management that will reduce the amount of chemical used and therefore cost and it will maximise the effectiveness. Usually this done by studying and knowing the life-cycle of the pest so in some cases it may be spraying the pest at pupal stage (when it is in the cocoon) for example. Timing is all important .It also will "integrate" cultural practices like using and timing irrigation correctly, using " organic" methods of insect control like using traps , using biological control and so all approaches to insect control is intensively managed .

It is not easy to do all these thing, not easy like pouring a blob of chemical in a back pack but it does work and it reduces dependence on chemical ( which the big boys don't like) , it reduces the cost in the production of food, the food is healthier and often will look more presentable and is much better for the consumer and the environment.

Edited April 19, 2014 by xen

[daoyai]

Not sure one can get away with this in any given western country.

On the back it says "fruit wine" and I do not see grapes as a ingredient. It is however promoted as wine..................

Bottle back label is attached.

Jeezz.. It's a legal classification. That's why it says Fruit Wine.

So exactly the same as Mont Clair et al. It's a mix of Chardonnay/Shiraz grapes with some other fruits, blended to approximate a normal tasting very mainstream wine as much as possible.

Drama Queen.

Land of Scams.. indeed. "Land or Weird Wine Taxes and Ingenious Workarounds" more like.

I'm off to Wine Connection tomorrow to buy a bottle and will report back with some useful comments.

It may be a legal classification but it's also an accurate one. And a classification which the makers of this "wine" do their best to obscure. Since most people's idea of wine is something made from grapes and grapes only, I don't think scam is too harsh a characterization. And what do you mean by workaround? That it's somehow okay to give the impression that an alcoholic concoction is made from grapes only because the price is too high for wine made from 100 percent grapes? I think you're confused.

I don't know what "most peoples" definition of wine is but Wine can be made from any fruit, not just grapes. I prefer a good dry red made from grapes. T.L.express sells a wine called Lakeview for 179 a bottle.... made frome pineapple and roselle fruit. Not good.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Jeezz.. It's a legal classification. That's why it says Fruit Wine.

So exactly the same as Mont Clair et al. It's a mix of Chardonnay/Shiraz grapes with some other fruits, blended to approximate a normal tasting very mainstream wine as much as possible.

Drama Queen.

Land of Scams.. indeed. "Land or Weird Wine Taxes and Ingenious Workarounds" more like.

I'm off to Wine Connection tomorrow to buy a bottle and will report back with some useful comments.

It may be a legal classification but it's also an accurate one. And a classification which the makers of this "wine" do their best to obscure. Since most people's idea of wine is something made from grapes and grapes only, I don't think scam is too harsh a characterization. And what do you mean by workaround? That it's somehow okay to give the impression that an alcoholic concoction is made from grapes only because the price is too high for wine made from 100 percent grapes? I think you're confused.

I look forward to the discussion on obscuring the classification of whisky or rum in locally produced liquors.

I'd rather just judge the actual product on its merits rather than join the grape-snob army. A grape is a fruit with a lot of sugar in it, making it very suitable to ferment into alcohol. Indeed that's what wine is. Of course this works just as well with anything else with sugar in it, however there just happen to be very few true fruit wines (using only some other kind of fruit) that are any good, or have the same following that grape wine does.

Still, you can also arrive at something completely undrinkable using grapes only. And you can arrive at something unremarkable yet agreeable to many people for a lower tax hit by going the Mont Clair route, which also includes other fruit and a lot of expertise to approximate a mainstream table wine (grape wine). I never heard anyone bitch about Mont Clair involving krajeab juice (roselle juiice) to ferment. (it does). It also totally looks like any other (grape) wine in the presentation. (Bottle and label).

This 'wine' here made from fermented juice of mostly grapes is the same approach and teh only thing I'm interested in is if it's better than Mont Clair. At 349 baht in a Thai supermarket that's the thing to compare it against, not a Chateauneuf du Pape.

Edited April 20, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[pitchag]

Not sure one can get away with this in any given western country.

On the back it says "fruit wine" and I do not see grapes as a ingredient. It is however promoted as wine..................

Bottle back label is attached.

Wine can be made from many fruits other than grapes and still be classed as wine, elderberry, dandelion and burdock are a couple off the top of my head, strawberry is another

[JesseFrank]

Not sure one can get away with this in any given western country.

On the back it says "fruit wine" and I do not see grapes as a ingredient. It is however promoted as wine..................

Bottle back label is attached.

Wine can be made from many fruits other than grapes and still be classed as wine, elderberry, dandelion and burdock are a couple off the top of my head, strawberry is another

There is even an Argentinian wine available in Thailand made of fruit and vegetable extracts.

At 90 Baht a liter not too bad choice

Edited April 20, 2014 by JesseFrank

[PingandSingh]

There is "wine" (grapes) and there is "fruit wine" (blended, fruit or even vegetables), right?

If I like to buy and drink a "wine" and someone at the wine-shop (whom has to know) recommends me a "fruit wine" being a decent "wine", do I have to accept and agree? No, and I will bring it back when I find out.

If I order a Honda Civic in a garage and they deliver a Honda lawnmower at home telling me it is a Honda, has also and engine, it runs also on gasohol 91 and has 4 wheels...... it even drives........... do I have to accept and agree?

If I order a Pepsi in a restaurant they do not have to bring a Est bottle (already open) telling me they both are "nam ad lom".

Hey gentleman, can I drink what I like to drink please. Many of you try to convince others that "fruit wine" is not that bad at all and/or can be considered "wine" as well. I do not have to agree with this opinion.

If I like to drink a "wine" let me drink and enjoy my "wine". Not push me a "fruit wine" in my hands. Simple, clear, correct and straight.

To Winniethekwai: Why should this be a "snob" mentality ???????? I hope you do not own a restaurant.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Where is that Vin Up product sold?

It's 9% alcohol and under 100 baht per liter?

That's on par with Beer Chang for bang for the baht.

What does it taste like?

[JesseFrank]

Where is that Vin Up product sold?

It's 9% alcohol and under 100 baht per liter?

That's on par with Beer Chang for bang for the baht.

What does it taste like?

In Pattaya it is sold at Best and Friendship supermarkets, but previously it was also available at Big C.

It is 12 or 13 % alcohol, and when i buy prefer the white. Taste bit sweet, drinks like lemonade.The red one is less sweet.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You sound like there wasn't any alcohol in it.

Now that would be totally worth joining a crusade for.

Edited April 20, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

If I like to buy and drink a "wine" and someone at the wine-shop (whom has to know) recommends me a "fruit wine" being a decent "wine", do I have to accept and agree? No, and I will bring it back when I find out.

My guess is that they will tell you to get stuffed.

[quidnunc]

Jeezz.. It's a legal classification. That's why it says Fruit Wine.

So exactly the same as Mont Clair et al. It's a mix of Chardonnay/Shiraz grapes with some other fruits, blended to approximate a normal tasting very mainstream wine as much as possible.

Drama Queen.

Land of Scams.. indeed. "Land or Weird Wine Taxes and Ingenious Workarounds" more like.

I'm off to Wine Connection tomorrow to buy a bottle and will report back with some useful comments.

It may be a legal classification but it's also an accurate one. And a classification which the makers of this "wine" do their best to obscure. Since most people's idea of wine is something made from grapes and grapes only, I don't think scam is too harsh a characterization. And what do you mean by workaround? That it's somehow okay to give the impression that an alcoholic concoction is made from grapes only because the price is too high for wine made from 100 percent grapes? I think you're confused.

I look forward to the discussion on obscuring the classification of whisky or rum in locally produced liquors.

I'd rather just judge the actual product on its merits rather than join the grape-snob army. A grape is a fruit with a lot of sugar in it, making it very suitable to ferment into alcohol. Indeed that's what wine is. Of course this works just as well with anything else with sugar in it, however there just happen to be very few true fruit wines (using only some other kind of fruit) that are any good, or have the same following that grape wine does.

Still, you can also arrive at something completely undrinkable using grapes only. And you can arrive at something unremarkable yet agreeable to many people for a lower tax hit by going the Mont Clair route, which also includes other fruit and a lot of expertise to approximate a mainstream table wine (grape wine). I never heard anyone bitch about Mont Clair involving krajeab juice (roselle juiice) to ferment. (it does). It also totally looks like any other (grape) wine in the presentation. (Bottle and label).

This 'wine' here made from fermented juice of mostly grapes is the same approach and teh only thing I'm interested in is if it's better than Mont Clair. At 349 baht in a Thai supermarket that's the thing to compare it against, not a Chateauneuf du Pape.

The question wasn't whether or not good wine can be made from fruit other than grapes. It was that the manufacturer did its best to conceal what the stuff really was.

As for whether good wine can be made from fruit other than grapes...it's instructive to note that when other cultures are exposed to wine made from grapes, they lose a lot of interest in their own fruit wines. Fruit (other than grape) wines have existed in western culture for thousands of years. But they don't seem to have much of an inroad against grape wines.

[elektrified]

Not sure one can get away with this in any given western country.

On the back it says "fruit wine" and I do not see grapes as a ingredient. It is however promoted as wine..................

Bottle back label is attached.

Wine can be made from many fruits other than grapes and still be classed as wine, elderberry, dandelion and burdock are a couple off the top of my head, strawberry is another

That may be technically correct but I don't think anyone from North and South America, Europe, South Africa or Australia would ever give it much thought. Wine to us is made from grapes.

There are products made in America made from other fruits such as in the attached photo, but would anybody seriously consider it "wine"? I mean who would drink something like that especially when you can buy "Two Buck Chuck" (Charles Shaw Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Grigio) which at one time was USD $1.99 per bottle?

Having said that, one time many years ago I was invited to a wine tasting party at a friend's home where a rep from a Northern California winery came with a selection of "fruit wines" made from blueberry, raspberry, mulberry, and fruits like that. I was surprised how good they were. But they were not cheap at around USD $8.00 per bottle as I recall, and were "dessert wines" much too sweet to drink with a meal or before a meal. Hungary produces some of these dessert wines from grapes.

Edited April 20, 2014 by elektrified

[Ulysses G.]

The question wasn't whether or not good wine can be made from fruit other than grapes. It was that the manufacturer did its best to conceal what the stuff really was.

The label clearly says "fruit wine" and nothing that you have shown us says that the manufacturer claimed otherwise or that it is not 100% grapes for that matter.

[quidnunc]

The question wasn't whether or not good wine can be made from fruit other than grapes. It was that the manufacturer did its best to conceal what the stuff really was.

The label clearly says "fruit wine" and nothing that you have shown us says that the manufacturer claimed otherwise or that it is not 100% grapes for that matter.

It wouldn't say fruit wine if the only juice in it came from grapes. By law it had to say fruit wine somewhere on the bottle. The manufacturers chose to put it in an obscure location on the back. On the front, the only juice mentioned came from grapes. It is disingenuous to suggest that the manufacturers weren't trying to mislead.

[Ulysses G.]

By law it had to say fruit wine somewhere on the bottle. The manufacturers chose to put it in an obscure location on the back.

As someone who always reads labels, it does not seem obscure to me, but I guess it depends on what the front label says. Does anyone have a photo of the front of the bottle? I'm still wondering where the OP's claim of "pineapple juice" came from. The pictures on the Internet have print that is too small to read, but I did find an advertisement that says it is grape wine with other fruit.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[kjhbigv]

"As many have stated, the duty free shop directly opposite Myanmar immigration seems to be the only place that has legit grog/booze/alcohol."

Incorrect. I bought a bottle of Jack Daniels from there a few years ago and then bought one from Tesco and the Duty Free one was 100% fake. Fact.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[xylophone]

According to THIS it is made with (real) grapes - nothing to do pineapples !

It doesn't really say that. It just says it made "using Chardonnay grapes." It doesn't say it's made exclusively from Chardonnay grapes. In fact, why would they call it a blend if it were made from just Chardonnay grapes. I'm not saying it's made with other fruit juices, it may be made with other kinds of grapes, but nothing I read says that it's made only from grapes. The same goes for the red. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong place?

It could be called a blend because it is blended from Chardonnay grapes from different vineyards within south-eastern Australia, from whence this wine emanates. Also in Australia, a winemaker is allowed to mix up to 25% (or at least it was when I last looked) of other grape varieties in a white wine, and provided the main grape is still Chardonnay, then that's what it is allowed to be called.

For instance in Australia some Chardonnays and Sauvignon Blanc wines can contain Semillon to give the wine a little more body, however it is never disclosed on the label and this is allowed by law.

There is another mention about the Montclair wine, and that is grape juice which is bought in from South Africa and fermented and bottled/boxed here, and I have never seen mention of any other fruit juice being in it, as it certainly isn't on their website or anything pertaining to it anywhere else (perhaps I haven't looked hard enough?).

There is also the reverse label of a bottle of "Belleville" Australian wine shown, and although I am not sure about this wine, the original "Bellville" from the South of France clearly has the grapes used on the front label (Grenache, Shiraz and Merlot) and is one of the better cheaper buys around in my opinion.

As for the "Jump Yards" Australian Shiraz, it says on the back label that it is bottled in Vietnam, so I'm not sure whether it is imported into Vietnam as wine, or as grape juice and then fermented, bottled and sold. It does say however that the grapes are sourced from Australia...............of course this, along with the Chardonnay mentioned above could mean that up to 25% of the content of the wine is from another grape variety, or even a fruit?

This may well explain how wines like Montclair and Jump Yards can be sold so cheaply, however that is only supposition on my part and any more information on this would be more than welcome.

For the record, I have tried the Jump Yards Shiraz and found it to be a very palatable low-end drinker and I found it was a good companion to spicy Thai food and a paella, this especially when chilled a little.

[GrantSmith]

Not sure one can get away with this in any given western country.

On the back it says "fruit wine" and I do not see grapes as a ingredient. It is however promoted as wine..................

Bottle back label is attached.

Can you attach a photo of the Jump Yards bottle instead, unless of course this was the label and it's been mislabeled which would be awfully confusing...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thighlander]

"As many have stated, the duty free shop directly opposite Myanmar immigration seems to be the only place that has legit grog/booze/alcohol."

Incorrect. I bought a bottle of Jack Daniels from there a few years ago and then bought one from Tesco and the Duty Free one was 100% fake. Fact.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree, and this has been debated here. Cuban cigars are fake....Absolut vodka was fake....

[stigvinck]

?..

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CMKiwi]

"As many have stated, the duty free shop directly opposite Myanmar immigration seems to be the only place that has legit grog/booze/alcohol."

Incorrect. I bought a bottle of Jack Daniels from there a few years ago and then bought one from Tesco and the Duty Free one was 100% fake. Fact.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree, and this has been debated here. Cuban cigars are fake....Absolut vodka was fake....

Well.... I have been educated/enlightened by the both of you. I have been fortunate in that my purchases thus far have been the real McCoy.

Luckily I dont like Abslut Absolut vodka and gave up smoking about 16 years ago. Just about every purchase from the market area was fake and that is one of the reasons why I switched to the closer duty free shop.

Just goes to show....nothing is always as it seems.

[xylophone]

Jeezz.. It's a legal classification. That's why it says Fruit Wine.

So exactly the same as Mont Clair et al. It's a mix of Chardonnay/Shiraz grapes with some other fruits, blended to approximate a normal tasting very mainstream wine as much as possible.

Drama Queen.

Land of Scams.. indeed. "Land or Weird Wine Taxes and Ingenious Workarounds" more like.

I'm off to Wine Connection tomorrow to buy a bottle and will report back with some useful comments.

It may be a legal classification but it's also an accurate one. And a classification which the makers of this "wine" do their best to obscure. Since most people's idea of wine is something made from grapes and grapes only, I don't think scam is too harsh a characterization. And what do you mean by workaround? That it's somehow okay to give the impression that an alcoholic concoction is made from grapes only because the price is too high for wine made from 100 percent grapes? I think you're confused.

I look forward to the discussion on obscuring the classification of whisky or rum in locally produced liquors.

I'd rather just judge the actual product on its merits rather than join the grape-snob army. A grape is a fruit with a lot of sugar in it, making it very suitable to ferment into alcohol. Indeed that's what wine is. Of course this works just as well with anything else with sugar in it, however there just happen to be very few true fruit wines (using only some other kind of fruit) that are any good, or have the same following that grape wine does.

Still, you can also arrive at something completely undrinkable using grapes only. And you can arrive at something unremarkable yet agreeable to many people for a lower tax hit by going the Mont Clair route, which also includes other fruit and a lot of expertise to approximate a mainstream table wine (grape wine). I never heard anyone bitch about Mont Clair involving krajeab juice (roselle juiice) to ferment. (it does). It also totally looks like any other (grape) wine in the presentation. (Bottle and label).

This 'wine' here made from fermented juice of mostly grapes is the same approach and teh only thing I'm interested in is if it's better than Mont Clair. At 349 baht in a Thai supermarket that's the thing to compare it against, not a Chateauneuf du Pape.

Quote: "I never heard anyone bitch about Mont Clair involving krajeab juice (roselle juiice) to ferment. (it does)".

That is an interesting piece of information WTK and not doubting you, but would like to further my knowledge on the subject, so where can I find reference to it?

Sugar can and is added to grape juice to assist in fermentation and taste, but would have thought that roselle juice wouldn't contain enough sugar for that as it is supposedly a little tart? OR maybe the addition of it is purely to get around taxes.........any info would be welcomed.

[neilrob]

To get around taxes. It certainly used (I have not looked at a Mont Clair label recently) to be on the label along with pineapple juice being added to the white wine, but only in Thai, not in English.

[daoyai]

Roselle is used for the deep red color and to give a grapeskin acidity.

[Morakot]

Fruit wine... gross!

I think I better stick to Chateau de Plonko.

[haybilly]

Many thanks to the OP for bringing this to my attention- I have bought Mont Clair on occasions and I thought it was just cheap plonk- now I know better.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

[xylophone]

Roselle is used for the deep red color and to give a grapeskin acidity.

This subject of adding fruit to the winemaking process intrigues me! So I would like to know where this information came from, not that I disbelieve you, more because I want to know about it.

I know in the past that many things have been added to wine, including antifreeze, glycerin, ground-down umbrella handles (yes in Italy, to extract the black dye from the plastic) and grapes from other countries, but would have thought that a wine, which was sold as a wine, would have to be "a wine" and not contain anything else other than grapes.

I can see exactly where you are coming from with the addition of Roselle to give acidity, however the juice or wine made from Roselle is usually very light red in colour and would probably not add anything to an already red wine. However what I can't understand is that if the producer simply wanted to adjust for acidity, then the addition of tartaric acid and/or citric acid is a well-known winemaking technique and easy to do.

As for adding colour, well if that hasn't come from the original grape skins and the contact with the juice, then surely that can be adjusted at source, or even include the grape skins with the imported product?

Actually, thinking about it, when I next go down to the supermarket I will look at a few Montclair bottles and boxes, and see exactly what the labels say and whether or not they mention "fruit wine". I do know they mention both Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz grape varieties, but nothing else.

Given that which I have said above, it would lead me to believe that the addition of Roselle would be more for getting round paying taxes than adding colour or acidity................ but then again, this is speculation and more info would be great.

[GrantSmith]

Actually, thinking about it, when I next go down to the supermarket I will look at a few Montclair bottles and boxes, and see exactly what the labels say and whether or not they mention "fruit wine". I do know they mention both Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz grape varieties, but nothing else.

Given that which I have said above, it would lead me to believe that the addition of Roselle would be more for getting round paying taxes than adding colour or acidity................ but then again, this is speculation and more info would be great.

xylophone, I was actually just at Foodland and did exactly the same thing, checked the back label of Montclair and it along also with Berri Estate are both labeled "Fruit Wine". I then had a good chuckle to myself looking at the Berri Estate label, the first thing I noticed was the "orange" excise department stamp.

I didn't go into the nuts and bolts of the label, just noticed those 2 things (mentioned above) and left, I was also going to go into Wine Connection to check the back label of the Jump Yard, but got sidetracked.

[xylophone]

Oops.......forgot To add this, which I found on a website, and it is relating to the testing of a wine made from Roselle, versus an imported wine from Spain, and from what I can make out, this was a lower end, 11.5%, everyday drinking wine. It also notes that the Roselle wine produces an acceptable "rosé wine", so definitely not one with a lot of colour.

Anyway, here is a précis which is relevant..............

"There were no significant differences in colour, clarity, flavour, aroma, taste and over all acceptability between the roselle wine and a reference imported red Wine (Baron de Valls, Spain)".

"The roselle wine received higher scores for colour and clarity than the ref-erence sample. Based on physico-chemical properties and panel responses, it appears that roselle calyx produced an acceptable rose wine".