Australian white Chardonnay wine in fact Vietnamese pineapple alcohol

[WinnieTheKhwai]

WinnieTheKwai, you will find something to defend this but allow me to raise my eyebrows a bit..............

Not really; it is what it is.

The Scotch whiskey thing is indeed interesting too. Seeing how much of the stuff is consumed in Thailand, of brands that all claim to be Scottish even at the cheaper end (100 Pipers and so on), I've been trying and failing to imagine what the supply chain must look like for all those bottles.

Edited April 27, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[xylophone]

Quote PingandSingh: "I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon".

I used to buy "The Pump" a few years ago when it first caught my attention, and the early years were quite good, so had no problem with this as my everyday "swiggger". Then the quality dropped quite markedly, so I stopped buying it, and then I noticed the price had gone up to about 680 baht, which I thought was incredibly expensive for a cheap end wine.

I think the price increase has more to do with Thai tax than anything else, however GrantSmith is more of an expert on that, so perhaps he can help.

In response to the post by WTK regarding reading the labels of the Mont Clair, just to satisfy my own curiosity I got a Thai friend of mine who speaks excellent English to look over the back, front and sides of the 5 L boxes and the bottles, to look for this, and they couldn't find it anywhere written in Thai........... so am I looking at the wrong boxes/bottles or is it on selected bottles/boxes only?

[GrantSmith]

I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon.

Do you honestly believe that the exporter is going to contact the importer and negotiate a price reduction?

Suffice to say that unless the exporter's got their heads around the Thai excise tax system they'll be content to be told that the excise tax increase is causing the prices to spike.

Further, unless you know for a fact that the importer is directly responsible for the price spike, you've got no idea where the spike's coming from. So the importer goes back to the exporters query with a 'not my fault' response...

And in all honesty unless you personally know the exporter, I'd doubt the exporter's going to entertain lines of questioning regarding their importer.

Whilst the price spike is seemingly high, it's not unusual, I've seen a locally produced wine (100% grape content) spike by a similar amount. Which has seen them lose market amongst the industry and they're hiding behind the guise that the excise tax increase is responsible, which goes against the spirit of the increase. The Excise Department / Finance Ministry claimed it was changing the tax to make locally produced product more competitive..

Go figure..

Edited April 27, 2014 by GrantSmith

[millwall_fan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If it is AUSTRALIAN wine read the label. It is labelled and bottled in Australia. Not Vietnam. And Australia does not need to do this as tarifs are ending in a year or so due to,the Thailand Australia free trade agreement.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

i thought tariffs on Aussie wine were reduced to well under that for other countries a couple of years ago and that the prices have been deliberately held at the same price as other wines to boost the distributors and retailers profits.

I would also put money on their Finca de Malpica also being a "fruit wine" and marketed otherwise...

I would agree. It says 'Spanish style wine' on the label which is a bit of a give away.

The point is though that Thai wine taxes are still ridiculously high compared with other countries a legacy from the days when the tax on a bottle of wine was the same as on a bottle of whisky -because Thais in those days didn't drink wine, but of course did drink whisky. Now many middle class Thais do drink wine - albeit with a not very sophisticated palate, and the race is on to get the taxes down. Governments have frozen the duty for several years now while the price of beer and spirits have rocketed. The thing to do, as with everything else in this country, is be open minded - Mont Clair is an acceptable wine in its price range, Finca de Malpica even more so. Personally I find Peter Vella's wines too sweet - which is not surprising as they were aimed at Thais who, as we know tend to have a sweet tooth.

If I had the money I'd be buying Penfolds rare bins reds, a top class Rioja or a crispy NZ Sauv. Blanc - but I don't have the cash for them, so I buy Mar Y Sol 'Chilean' Red and white in boxes which on one side of the box sings the praises of Chile and its 300 days of sunshine, without ever saying the wine comes from there, on the other side it says 'Fruit wine' and: 'produced and bottled by Siam winery Samut Sakhon'! Wherever its from, it tastes fine for 799 Baht a 4 litre box. which is 150 baht a bottle. Cheers!

[PingandSingh]

I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon.

Do you honestly believe that the exporter is going to contact the importer and negotiate a price reduction?

Go figure..

Some correspondence between the exporter and me.

Up to you what you think. I know who I am.

Up to you my friend.

---------------------------

Hi, I used to drink a few bottles of "The Pump" a week. That was at the price of 280 Baht a bottle. Now, after a few months only and after a few price hikes, the price per bottle stands at 665 Baht. That is a 250 % increase in a few months. I have never seen this before and I think you cannot blame it in full on your Thai importer. Impossible. What is going on? This is not normal!!!! Cheers.

-------------------

Dear Mr Joxx xxxx,

The winery of xxxxxxx passed through your email regarding pricing in Thailand. I will be speaking with the owners of the importing agency when they return after Songkran holidays.

I am aware of changes to the government taxation in Thailand which has led to some price rise but this amount you quoted is far and above that increase.

One thing I was interested in from your quoted buy prices. You stated that you had been able to buy it at 280 baht. Was this the Cabernet Merlot? Or can you tell me where you purchased at this price? I had not heard of it in the market for less than 350 baht before the changes.

Regards

Nxxxxxxx xxxxxx

Managing Director

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Australia

------------------------

Hello Nxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your prompt answer.

Yes, the Government taxation has changed but that counts for a few % only.

The price was at 280 Baht at Makro, Wine and Dine, Rimping, a few months ago only. The Pump is now 665 Baht at Makro. I do not see this wine with the others anymore. Much more expensive than Jacobs Creek which is at about 530 Baht. The price of 665 Baht is just ridiculous for xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx.

Have a nice day.

Joxx

------------------------

Hello Joxx,

Thank you for this information. We will investigate the pricing model with the importer. Just to correct one item. The wine is imported bottled it is not in bulk.

Regards

Nxxx xxxxxx

---------------------

[quidnunc]

I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon.

Do you honestly believe that the exporter is going to contact the importer and negotiate a price reduction?

Suffice to say that unless the exporter's got their heads around the Thai excise tax system they'll be content to be told that the excise tax increase is causing the prices to spike.

Further, unless you know for a fact that the importer is directly responsible for the price spike, you've got no idea where the spike's coming from. So the importer goes back to the exporters query with a 'not my fault' response...

And in all honesty unless you personally know the exporter, I'd doubt the exporter's going to entertain lines of questioning regarding their importer.

Whilst the price spike is seemingly high, it's not unusual, I've seen a locally produced wine (100% grape content) spike by a similar amount. Which has seen them lose market amongst the industry and they're hiding behind the guise that the excise tax increase is responsible, which goes against the spirit of the increase. The Excise Department / Finance Ministry claimed it was changing the tax to make locally produced product more competitive..

Go figure..

I don't understand. If a company like the PUMP is selling x amount of bottles per year through an importer and suddenly the sales drop drastically, why wouldn't they want to take action? I know of other products where the exporter dumped a Thai importer because they weren't doing a job. Presumably, this is a business relationship, not a romantic one.

[GrantSmith]

I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon.

Do you honestly believe that the exporter is going to contact the importer and negotiate a price reduction?

Go figure..

Some correspondence between the exporter and me.

Up to you what you think. I know who I am.

Up to you my friend.

---------------------------

Hi, I used to drink a few bottles of "The Pump" a week. That was at the price of 280 Baht a bottle. Now, after a few months only and after a few price hikes, the price per bottle stands at 665 Baht. That is a 250 % increase in a few months. I have never seen this before and I think you cannot blame it in full on your Thai importer. Impossible. What is going on? This is not normal!!!! Cheers.

-------------------

Dear Mr Joxx xxxx,

The winery of xxxxxxx passed through your email regarding pricing in Thailand. I will be speaking with the owners of the importing agency when they return after Songkran holidays.

I am aware of changes to the government taxation in Thailand which has led to some price rise but this amount you quoted is far and above that increase.

One thing I was interested in from your quoted buy prices. You stated that you had been able to buy it at 280 baht. Was this the Cabernet Merlot? Or can you tell me where you purchased at this price? I had not heard of it in the market for less than 350 baht before the changes.

Regards

Nxxxxxxx xxxxxx

Managing Director

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Australia

------------------------

Hello Nxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your prompt answer.

Yes, the Government taxation has changed but that counts for a few % only.

The price was at 280 Baht at Makro, Wine and Dine, Rimping, a few months ago only. The Pump is now 665 Baht at Makro. I do not see this wine with the others anymore. Much more expensive than Jacobs Creek which is at about 530 Baht. The price of 665 Baht is just ridiculous for xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx.

Have a nice day.

Joxx

------------------------

Hello Joxx,

Thank you for this information. We will investigate the pricing model with the importer. Just to correct one item. The wine is imported bottled it is not in bulk.

Regards

Nxxx xxxxxx

---------------------

Hope that conversation proves fruitful for you, but I wouldn't be holding my breath... Surprised you didn't ask who their importer was...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GrantSmith]

I don't understand. If a company like the PUMP is selling x amount of bottles per year through an importer and suddenly the sales drop drastically, why wouldn't they want to take action? I know of other products where the exporter dumped a Thai importer because they weren't doing a job. Presumably, this is a business relationship, not a romantic one.

But that's the million baht question, are the export sales actually dropping? Easy to speculate that given the price spike they are. But you'd need to have all the pieces of the puzzle to put it together.

Is the winery directly exporting to Thailand or do they contract that out to a company in Australia?

A lot of information can be obtained from the labels, especially here in Thailand.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[WinnieTheKhwai]

In response to the post by WTK regarding reading the labels of the Mont Clair, just to satisfy my own curiosity I got a Thai friend of mine who speaks excellent English to look over the back, front and sides of the 5 L boxes and the bottles, to look for this, and they couldn't find it anywhere written in Thai........... so am I looking at the wrong boxes/bottles or is it on selected bottles/boxes only?

If you can post an image of the back label I can point it out on there. It's a bit hidden in the small print towards the bottom.

[xylophone]

In response to the post by WTK regarding reading the labels of the Mont Clair, just to satisfy my own curiosity I got a Thai friend of mine who speaks excellent English to look over the back, front and sides of the 5 L boxes and the bottles, to look for this, and they couldn't find it anywhere written in Thai........... so am I looking at the wrong boxes/bottles or is it on selected bottles/boxes only?

If you can post an image of the back label I can point it out on there. It's a bit hidden in the small print towards the bottom.

Thanks WTK..............bottle or box?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The one I read it on yesterday was a big bottle. 2 liters maybe. Should be all the same though, but perhaps easier to locate on a bottle as there are only two labels on them. Box may have text on all sides.

[frankphuket]

Those so called fruit wines are seen being imported by many wine companies and they do in fact have a certain amount of fruits other then grapes in them. Why? Simply to avoid the high taxes as they don't have to declare them as wine, but fruit based alcoholic beverage.

Therefore they can be offered at lower prices.

Most suppliers however do state what they are clearly.

Unfortunately there are no wines for under or about 300 Baht on sale anymore, due to the revised tax system....

[frankphuket]

Those so called fruit wines are seen being imported by many wine companies and they do in fact have a certain amount of fruits other then grapes in them. Why? Simply to avoid the high taxes as they don't have to declare them as wine, but fruit based alcoholic beverage.

Therefore they can be offered at lower prices.

Most suppliers however do state what they are clearly.

Unfortunately there are no wines for under or about 300 Baht on sale anymore, due to the revised tax system....

[wileycoyote]

A cause for concern ,the continuing DDT possibly entering food chain

[ezzra]

Is there a different between the Chardonnay and pineapple juice?

[JO1973]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

It's not the same in the West. There are scores of laws controlling what kind and how much pesticides people can use. And GM crops have been around for decades and despite what people claim they are still safe. The problem here is that people are using their own kinds of pesticides -- a little bit of this and that -- with no regulation, or at least no enforcement.

[zyphodb]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

Actually, that would be the best way to use pesticides. In the system called Integrated Pest Management pesticides are only used early on so that by the time the plant is ready to be harvested, the chemicals are out of the plant's system.

Could i add something about Integrated Pest Management. It is a approach to pest management that will reduce the amount of chemical used and therefore cost and it will maximise the effectiveness. Usually this done by studying and knowing the life-cycle of the pest so in some cases it may be spraying the pest at pupal stage (when it is in the cocoon) for example. Timing is all important .It also will "integrate" cultural practices like using and timing irrigation correctly, using " organic" methods of insect control like using traps , using biological control and so all approaches to insect control is intensively managed .

It is not easy to do all these thing, not easy like pouring a blob of chemical in a back pack but it does work and it reduces dependence on chemical ( which the big boys don't like) , it reduces the cost in the production of food, the food is healthier and often will look more presentable and is much better for the consumer and the environment.

I'm sure you're right about Integrated Pest Management xen, & I'm equally sure that if it involves any "studying" to get it right, that it won't be used here in Thailand

[Johnnie99]

How about stop trying always to grab 'bargains' - you get what you pay for - and buy the genuine, well-known, irreproachable brands?

Or are you all such poor, 'farang' bargain hunters that your money wouldn't stretch?

Geez - this is a Third World country and for goodness sake open your eyes.

[ggt]

You have to give the Thais credit...there is not a stone unturned...when it comes to scamming the public...must make their Chinese ancestors...so proud...

[heybuz]

Having just returned from Australia and sampling some excellent wines at half the price we pay here (because of import tax) I was loathe to try some.

According to the so called free trade agreement between thailand and australia the tax is supposed to be minimal.eg 5 percent

[Chalard]

I used to empty a few "The Pump" bottles a week also. It is Australian bottled so that gives me some sort of confidence. Contacted the exporters and they will negociate with the importers. To them, going from 285 to 660 Baht in a few months is not normal as their price did not increase. So let's hope it might go down soon.

Do you honestly believe that the exporter is going to contact the importer and negotiate a price reduction?

Suffice to say that unless the exporter's got their heads around the Thai excise tax system they'll be content to be told that the excise tax increase is causing the prices to spike.

Further, unless you know for a fact that the importer is directly responsible for the price spike, you've got no idea where the spike's coming from. So the importer goes back to the exporters query with a 'not my fault' response...

And in all honesty unless you personally know the exporter, I'd doubt the exporter's going to entertain lines of questioning regarding their importer.

Whilst the price spike is seemingly high, it's not unusual, I've seen a locally produced wine (100% grape content) spike by a similar amount. Which has seen them lose market amongst the industry and they're hiding behind the guise that the excise tax increase is responsible, which goes against the spirit of the increase. The Excise Department / Finance Ministry claimed it was changing the tax to make locally produced product more competitive..

Go figure..

The Govt aren't going to reduce the tax on a luxury item seeing us "rich" people will help support / subsidize the failed rice scheme.

A mate who was importing his family's wine here has shut down due to the ridiculous tax system.

So it's buyer beware.

Cheers & read that label carefully next time your buying

[Rorri]

OP. can't only blame Thais.. a giant American company, Campbell's has removed MSG from its products in the US and Australia, but still puts it in products in Thailand, I sent an email asking why, and suggested they only remove it under pressure from governments and the public and not because of concern for their customers health, that was over 2 months ago, am still waiting a reply.

[xylophone]

The one I read it on yesterday was a big bottle. 2 liters maybe. Should be all the same though, but perhaps easier to locate on a bottle as there are only two labels on them. Box may have text on all sides.

Found it!!!!...............In very small Thai print on the back of a 5L box of Mont Clair.

This is well hidden and only in Thai, whilst the English text leans heavily on promoting Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon, written large.

One could say the marketing of this wine was misleading and the company could not get away with this in countries such as France/England/Oz/NZ/Italy/USA/Chile........etc.

On the one hand it can/does provide a cheap swigger, but on the other is deliberately misleading the buyers and I for one want to know what I am drinking.

[vincent13]

Having just returned from Australia and sampling some excellent wines at half the price we pay here (because of import tax) I was loathe to try some.

According to the so called free trade agreement between thailand and australia the tax is supposed to be minimal.eg 5 percent

According to the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website:

"

Wine, beer and spirits

• Thailand immediately reduced its previous 54% tariffs on wine to 40%, and will phase the tariff to zero in 2015.
• For beer and spirits, Thailand immediately reduced its previous tariffs of 60% to 30%, before phasing to zero in 2010.

[xylophone]

The Thai name is "กระเจี๊ยบแดง" or "KraJiabDaeng" .

[Chalard]

Having just returned from Australia and sampling some excellent wines at half the price we pay here (because of import tax) I was loathe to try some.

According to the so called free trade agreement between thailand and australia the tax is supposed to be minimal.eg 5 percent

According to the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website:

"

Wine, beer and spirits

• Thailand immediately reduced its previous 54% tariffs on wine to 40%, and will phase the tariff to zero in 2015.
• For beer and spirits, Thailand immediately reduced its previous tariffs of 60% to 30%, before phasing to zero in 2010.

Unfortunately that's the import tariff, not the excise tax which the greedy govt officials are using to help fund the failed rice subsidy scheme.

[HerbalEd]

Not much of a scam if the label actually tells you what's inside the bottle.

DDT? How do you know this is true ... or is that what you 'heard' or 'assume'? I'm not saying they're not using some terrible pesticides ... maybe even some illegal ones ... but I seriously doubt they're using DDT.

[HerbalEd]

Does anyone know at what point during the growing period these "chemicals" are sprayed?

It would appear to me that if they are sprayed as seedlings then the chemical becomes infused into the plant.....therefore no amount of washing or bicarb sterilisation will make any difference.

But isn't it exactly the same in the west? But there its given a fancy name GMO crops, genetically modified by chemicals probably.

That's not even close to how GMOs are produced.

[HerbalEd]

According to THIS it is made with (real) grapes - nothing to do pineapples !

Do you actually believe THIS is the same wine the OP is talking about? How could you possible know?

[Chalard]

According to THIS it is made with (real) grapes - nothing to do pineapples !

Do you actually believe THIS is the same wine the OP is talking about? How could you possible know?

On both the Wine Connection & Vivino websites, it says that the Cellar Blend Cool White "is fruit driven".

So that is very much open for interpretation.

Only rates 2.0 stars, so you only get what u pay for.

Will have to read the label when i see a bottle of it next time.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Chalard