for vacation: what is best? schwab cc, chase cc, travelers checks?

[alfalfa19]

Hi guys. I'm trying to make financial plans for my next trip to thailand. In the past, I always used ae tc, obtained for free from my chase bank. What I am hearing now concerning the 150 baht fee, makes me want to avoid this route. 5 bucks to cash a 100 dollar traveler's check, does not sound reasonable to me. I've heard that schwab cards carry no fees in thailand for paying bills or withdrawing cash. Can anyone verify this? Do I need some kind of special account, i.e. brokerage, etc? I have also heard that Chase visa cards carry no charges. Can anyone advise me? Also, if I were to take some hundred dollar bills, do they incur the 150 baht charge for changing into thai baht? thanks in advance.

[David48]

I simply just bring CASH

[alfalfa19]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

[David48]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

Sigh ... I simply just bring CASH

[JLCrab]

A Schwab Bank account will reimburse the (now) 180 baht foreign withdrawal fee at the end of each month. You need a Schwab brokerage account to set up a banking account. If the trip is not too long I would just use your USA ATM card and consider the 180 fee just an expense of the trip.

Chase Visa has a foreign Transaction fee. CapitalOne Visa does not.

Edited April 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[benalibina]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

By your above comment i am really surprised that you want to come to LOS. The tuktuk maffia will be happy though that you did not mention them above.

[Scarpolo]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

Sigh ... I simply just bring CASH

Agreed,

Cash

Amex for emergency, great exchange rate, $20 fee per trans

[Rooo]

Moved to banking .

[daveAustin]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

By your above comment i am really surprised that you want to come to LOS. The tuktuk maffia will be happy though that you did not mention them above.

What's wrong with the comment? They are spot on and anyone bringing wads of cash over is just asking for it. If it's just a short trip with like 10 or 20k then yeah, but I would sooner pay that ridiculous ATM fee than go the silly option.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For a vacationer to Thailand from the U.S., you have two different kinds of bank card fees to be concerned about:

1. the foreign currency fees charged by whatever U.S. bank card you might use. Some are as much as $5 plus 3% of any foreign ATM withdrawal. That's where BofA is now, and I believe Chase is similar. Similar fees also apply when you use the cards for POS purchases.

2. the separate fee that all Thai banks now charge whenever you use a foreign VISA or MC -- now 180 baht for MC logo cards, and 150 to 180 baht for VISA logo cards, depending on which Thai bank ATM you're using.

Regarding No. 1, ideally, any U.S. bank card you'd want to use in Thailand would charge little or no foreign currency fee or sometimes called ISA (International Service Assessment) fee. Debit cards from Schwab, Fidelity, State Farm Bank and some others have 0 FCF. Some credit cards from Capital One also have no FCF for purchases, but you wouldn't want to use a credit card to withdraw cash.

Regarding No. 2, there no longer are any Thai bank ATMs that don't charge the 150-180 baht fee against U.S. bank cards. So the best you can do in that regard is to also have a U.S. bank card that, in addition to not charging their own foreign fees, also reimburse the fees charged by other banks, such as the Thai ones. Schwab, Fidelity, State Farm and some others provide such reimbursements.

Also, a lot of Thai bank ATMs these days will only dispense 20,000 baht per withdrawal. But some, including Ayudhya, TMB and CIMB, will dispense up to 30,000 baht per withdraw. So, if you're going to pay a fee and or have it reimbursed per withdrawal, at least try to get as much money as you can for the transaction. That means using a debit card that, preferably, has a $1000 per day withdrawal limit -- not the usual $300 to $500 per day limits.

American Express cards typically charge a 2.7% foreign currency fee, which makes them pretty uneconomical.

Likewise, now most Thai banks are charging 153 baht service fee PER traveler's cheque cashed, which makes going that route pretty uneconomical, especially with smaller denominations. But if you had $500 denomination traveler's cheques, that would work out to a 1% fee on the Thai end ($5 fee per $500 cheque), assuming you didn't pay a fee on the U.S. end.

Carrying large amounts of cash has its own risks. For me personally, I'd be willing to carry some, but I wouldn't risk trying to fund my entire trip that way, unless it was for a short visit.

Basically, most of the major U.S. mega banks are very bad when it comes to foreign use fees. Apart from the examples of national-level no-fee cards I mentioned above, there are a lot of smaller local banks and credit unions that also have no fee cards -- but you have to do the research and check online to find those available in the area where you live.

Usually, the presence or absence of foreign use fees is not something that most banks advertise or promote on their websites, and instead, that kind of detail is usually relegated to the "terms and conditions" disclosure documents. The Schwab and Fidelity cards require opening brokerage accounts, which makes them a bit more complicated.

But State Farm Bank, for example, is just a straight bank and allows online account opening, which ought to make setting up a new account with them relatively easy.

[JLCrab]

The OP does not say how long will be his vacation in Thailand.That said, it can often be well worth the (now) 180 baht ATM fee to go to a quiet close-by no-traffic ATM to make a withdrawal with your USA issued card rather than to go to a bank branch at 8:30 AM or 10:30 AM in the mall with your passport and wait.

[Pib]

As a rule of thumb you will get a slightly better exchange rate of approx 0.25% for travelers cheques over cash at Thai banks. If you a staying in an area that has a major money exchanger like SuperRich which offers a little higher rate for cash than Thai banks then that 0.25% travelers cheques exchange rate is nullified...but I expect the great, great majority of tourists go to a Thai bank to accomplish their money exchange with cash and travelers cheques. I'm also assuming you get the travelers cheques issued free by your home country bank....some do issue them free; some don't.

However, travelers cheques cashing fees have risen for 33 baht/cheque to 153 baht/cheque (the 3 baht portion is the govt stamp duty...all remaining is the bank fee)....right now 153 baht works out to around $4.80 but lets just say $5 to make it easier for the brain. On a $100 cheque a $5 fee works out to 5% of your money being left with the bank. Substract the approx 0.25% exchange rate advantage with travelers cheques over cash and the safety of the cheque left you with 4.75% less dollar-to-baht in your hands. OUCH, that hurts you, but makes the bank feel soooo good....makes them smile reinforcing the Land of Smiles logo.

But increase the travelers cheques denomination size to $500 and that $5 cash fee works out to 1%....subtract the 0.25% exchange rate advantage and you have 0.75% less in your hands than cash would have given you....0.75% for added safety/peace of mind may work for many...and is definitely a lot less than the typical foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3% on most debit/credit cards (plus maybe a flat fee)...and if the card don't reimburse the Thai bank/AEON ATM foreign card fee of Bt150-180 (another $5 to $6) then use of such a card is really going to hurt you, but make the ATM operator and your home country bank very happy from the fees they get.

Now, I didn't mention the debit card exchange rate before any fees are applied because usually the Visa/Mastercard "0%" foreign transaction fee card exchange rate is better than the cash and travelers cheque rates....and sometimes better than the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming wire transfers. And when I say 0% I'm not talking interest rates; I'm talking they don't charge any fee to use the card in foreign locations. Like today the Visa exchange rate is 32.12 which is little better than the Thai bank TT Buying, Travelers Cheques, and Cash rates. The Visa/Mastercard exchange rates are usually somewhere between the traveler cheques and TT Buying rate rates give or take a few stang...and the Visa rate is usually just a little better than the Mastercard rate.

So, now with the new & improved (five fold increase) travelers cheques fee charged by Thai banks it makes it pretty much impossible to come out better over cash...you will be losing X-percent in fees...and the Thai bank appreciates your business.

The only way to avoid the fee loses is to get a "no foreign transaction fee" debit card that also reimburses for local ATM fees. This way you will get an exchange rate higher than cash or travelers cheques, no foreign transaction fee charged by the card-issuing bank, and reimbursement of the local ATM fee. The Schwab Visa debit card is one such example, but please don't overdo it and help kill the Golden Reimbursement Goose for everyone. Although you must open a Schwab brokerage and checking account (all done on one combination application form) you do not have to fund the brokerage account.

Also, don't forgot about using a no foreign transaction fee "credit" card....not for cash advances, but for purchases like paying your hotel bill and many other expenses. Like the Capital One credit cards which are no foreign transaction fee credit cards and some pay cash back of 1.5% like their QuickSilver card. This way your are getting an exchange rate that is better than the travelers cheques and cash rates (and sometimes the TT Buying Rate) plus getting cash back.

While the debit and credit cards you have now may provide good benefit and low/no fees when used "inside" your home country, these cards may turn into an ugly fee monster when used outside your home country. But a no foreign transaction fee debit/credit card doesn't go through ugly mood swings as you travel the world...it just continues to "not charge you with fees" whether you are in or outside your home country. Don't make some banks/credit card companies richer by paying their high card fees...look for those banks/card companies that are not so fee-evil, fee-hungry like in not charging a foreign transaction fee on their card products.

And always remember to notify your bank/credit card in advance of your foreign travel itinerary to ensure the card works in foreign locations...you wouldn't want to arrive Thailand with little cash/travelers cheques in hand and find out your cards were being rejected by the ATMs and merchants as that could mess up your holiday.

P.S. I use my U.S. no foreign transaction fee debit and credit cards in Thailand almost on a daily basis, especially the credit cards...never a problem (knock on wood).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The other option I guess we should have mentioned is trying to do a so-called counter withdrawal with the tellers inside a Thai bank.

Counter withdrawal means, taking your passport and U.S. bank debit card up to the window and asking to withdraw an amount of funds against that card.

Some Thai banks will do that, especially for larger amounts, and counter withdrawals don't incur the 150-180 baht ATM withdrawal fee. But other banks will tell you they won't do a counter withdrawal with your debit card and direct you to their ATMs instead. It's really a hit and miss proposition of whether a counter withdrawal can be accomplished at any particular Thai bank branch.

Of course, just like an ATM withdrawal, counter withdrawals would incur a foreign currency fee if your U.S. card has one, the same as an ATM withdrawal. And, you also have to be careful that any card you're using for a counter withdrawal doesn't also have a cash advance or counter withdrawal fee, something that some U.S. banks have been adding of late. Because just like the Thai banks, they don't want to get shorted out of you paying their foreign ATM use charges.

Bottom Line: for any American who travels abroad regularly, it absolutely makes sense to seek out and obtain a no foreign currency fee debit card for use abroad, as well as a credit card with no foreign currency fee for purchases. Doing so is going to save you a lot of money.

Edited April 20, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JLCrab]

Another option for Thailand is to open a Bangkok Bank account which allows a domestic ACH transaction to their NYC branch from your US bank account then a domestic Bangkok Bank ATM card when in Thailand.

But reading all of the above posts one must remember: Life is short. Some things just aren't worth the effort.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's why having no foreign currency fee, ATM fee reimbursing cards like Schwab, Fidelity, State Farm Bank etc. are the wise way to go for Americans traveling abroad.

Once you have them, you don't really have to worry about anything. Withdraw funds from any ATM in the U.S. and any ATM fee is reimbursed. Withdraw funds abroad, and there's no foreign currency fee, and any ATM fees are reimbursed.

A person holding those kinds of cards can get on with their vacation / life, and not have to worry about fees and finances, or carrying your passport around to different Thai bank branches, etc etc.

You get the money you withdraw, and you pay for your purchases at the purchase price, and nothing extra beyond that.

[JLCrab]

I have all those thingees. But if someone is only coming to Thailand for three weeks why all the fuss?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Because they work equally well back in the U.S., when you have a BofA card but want to use a Wells Fargo or Chase or Citi ATM because those happen to be close by (or any similar situation)... but don't want to get hit for $2 or $3 every time you use an ATM other than those belonging to your card-issuing bank.

Plus, with those kinds of cards, you don't have the security/safety issues involved in carrying cash abroad. U.S. VISA cards generally carry zero liability fraud protection even when used abroad. And with U.S. credit card purchases, you have the ability to dispute charges if necessary for things like defective products or canceled reservations. Whereas with cash, if there's some problem, you're on your own.

[JLCrab]

I thought the topic was what to do on a vacation in Thailand? I just closed my BofA account because -- after being free for years -- they stared charging $14 per month unless you meet minimum balance/deposit requirements. And just about no national bank has branches in Vermont.

But maybe you're one of those guys who will use up $3 worth of gas/petrol driving around to save a $2 ATM fee.

[Pib]

The wife and I have friend who lives in the U.S. and who visits Thailand around every year and has been doing the cash and travelers cheques thing...usually around a 75% cheque (she can get them free), 25% cash split. She usually stays with us during those stays. Don't want to use her debit and credit cards since they carried a 3% foreign transaction fee--she got burnt on that before. We told her in advance this year if bringing travelers cheques like she usually does that the fee has increased five-fold so if bringing them she needs to bring large denomination cheques, like $500 cheques, to minimize the fee hit. Well, you know the ol' saying of Its Like Speaking to a Brick Wall....she up and brought a bunch of $100 denomination cheques and basically lost almost 5% of that money in cashing them--now that shocked her. And we reminded her we told her twice a few months before coming over of the fee increase....she just said, Yea you did....it's my own fault.

But the good news she said she was going to apply a Schwab account and CapOne credit card. That way she can prevent fees on her future trips and also carry less cash since she'll use her credit card for some purchases. Now, will she actually follow through and open the new accounts? Possibly not because she is also a big procrastinator, seems to be the type of person that only deals with local brick-and-mortar banks, and sometimes when speaking to her it's like speaking to a brick wall. Time will tell if she follows through and sets herself for future vacations.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I thought the topic was what to do on a vacation in Thailand? I just closed my BofA account because -- after being free for years -- they stared charging $14 per month unless you meet minimum balance/deposit requirements. And just about no national bank has branches in Vermont.

But maybe you're one of those guys who will use up $3 worth of gas/petrol driving around to save a $2 ATM fee.

Your post and comments above are nonsensical. You earlier had complained about why go thru the "fuss" for just a brief vacation abroad.

And as I pointed out, the whole point of having a no fee/fee reimbursing ATM card is you can use ANY ATM machine you want anywhere in the U.S. and NOT have to worry about fees or driving around to find the closest bank location associated with that particular card.

And ditto that when you're abroad: you don't really have to worry whether a foreign ATM charges a fee or doesn't, or whether it's a 180 or 150 baht fee, because your U.S. bank is going to reimburse you for the ATM charge anyway.

That's the whole point of having a fee-reimbursing card, which I am now repeating for about the third time. Is it beginning to sink in yet???

Edited April 20, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JLCrab]

I have an ATM fee reimbursing account. I have a Bangkok Bank account with an ACH transfer link to a US account. I have a no international service fee credit card. And so what?

Maybe the OP should get all these too. But if he is leaving for Thailand next week, that may not be an option for him.

Edited April 20, 2014 by JLCrab

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't believe the OP indicated in his post above just exactly when or how soon he was planning on leaving for travel.

But in any event, whether for this upcoming trip or all the future trips ahead, the same good advice applies.

[JLCrab]

Schwab and Fidelity require a brokerage account. State Farm has a $10 ATM reimbursement limit unless you meet additional requirements. The OP may only on occasion need to find an ATM in the USA that is not his BofA or Chase Bank. For many reasons he may not want to apply for a new credit card if he has one or more that don't waive foreign purchase fees i.e. does not want to disclose income and/or employment info..

So these are all variables that may affect your 'good' advice which is certainly appropriate for someone living full-time in Thailand but may not be appropriate for someone who just visits.

[alfalfa19]

Thanks guys, for several knowledgeable replies. Since I am a pretty careful guy, who likes to always have a plan b and plan c, I am thinking along these lines:

1. Get a schwab brokerage account. I don't know exactly what that is, but I'm pretty sure I can do it. I've got their address already, here in San DIego.

2. Take 3 or 4 500 dollar travel checks, provided free by my chase bank. If I need to use these, it appears I will only take a 1 percent hit for the cashing fee.

3. Take my Capitol One Visa signature credit card. I have never used this, although I've had it for 3 years. I assume it's good, it has not reached expiration date.

4. Take 500 - 1000 dollars in cash. If it does get stolen somehow, I would still have backups.

Any opinions on this plan? I've never had to do this stuff before, always used free travelers checks from chase. A few years ago, I used my b of a card to pay for hotels, and was shocked when I saw all the additional fees on my bank statement. I never did that again.

I should have mentioned that I will be traveling for about 3 weeks, and I have a few months before my trip, I'm waiting for airfares to come down, looking like around september.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

All of the above sounds like a pretty good plan, and will give you plenty of time to set things up with Schwab. You can do it online, and it's not complicated. Plus to open their high yield checking account that includes the fee reimbursing VISA debit card, you have to open a brokerage account with them (actually they just do it automatically), but you don't have to use or fund the brokerage account. It's entirely up to you.

Re the traveler's cheques, try to make sure they're using VISA checks as opposed to AMEX ones, which some places here aren't especially willing to cash.

As for the Capital One VISA credit card, make sure to do an online travel notification with Cap One before you depart, because they can be real sticklers when they see sudden and unexpected foreign charges on your U.S. account. And it's a pain having to call them to unlock your card after you've suddenly found your purchases denied and don't know why....

Re BofA, I had exactly the same experience years ago as a tourist with my BofA account then. Took my card abroad, never thinking or knowing about the fees, and then was shocked to find three charges for everything single thing I did -- the charge itself, then BofA's flat fee, then their percentage fee. I too quickly learned. NEVER AGAIN!

[Cosmo88]

Do traveller's checks still exist?!

There's are ATMs in virtually every street corner in Asia since at least 15 years back.

[artkris]

D v :/ a. A al

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[JLCrab]

The only minutia not discussed in all this is that, if you get the Schwab checking account, you will have to arrange for funds to be transferred into the account which a regular bank will not do and which may mean un-transferring an automated deposit from somewhere else. You cannot walk into a local Schwab bank and make a deposit or have someone do it for you while you are traveling.

But I guess we are also dealing with attitudes here. The guy says in an earlier post when seeing additional charges on a credit card he was Shocked! -- never again! Well sometimes you may still want to have multiple cards and for reasons not want to put all your charges on the CapOne card --better interest rates on another card, payment cycles, etc.When in context of the entire trip some of these things all come out int the wash.

Edited April 20, 2014 by JLCrab

[wooloomooloo]

For three week holidays I bring cash. Better f/x rate obtained and I have back up debit and credit cards and comprehensive travel insurance.

No one knows how much cash I'm carrying as I don't flaunt it. No one is going to pickpocket me either as they'd have no idea as to how I secrete my money. I wasn't born yesterday.

Been doing it for years.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JLCrab]

I was pick-pocketed by a 3-man team (bump/pick/hand-off) almost 20 years ago. I'll spare the details but one should never-say-never.