for vacation: what is best? schwab cc, chase cc, travelers checks?

[el jefe]

The only minutia not discussed in all this is that, if you get the Schwab checking account, you will have to arrange for funds to be transferred into the account which a regular bank will not do and which may mean un-transferring an automated deposit from somewhere else. You cannot walk into a local Schwab bank and make a deposit or have someone do it for you while you are traveling.

But I guess we are also dealing with attitudes here. The guy says in an earlier post when seeing additional charges on a credit card he was Shocked! -- never again! Well sometimes you may still want to have multiple cards and for reasons not want to put all your charges on the CapOne card --better interest rates on another card, payment cycles, etc.When in context of the entire trip some of these things all come out int the wash.

I can transfer funds to my Schwab account from every US account I've ever had. No problems at all.

The other advantage to using a Schwab ATM card is that they'll reimburse the ATM fees (up to $5.00, so they won't reimburse the full 180 baht if you use a bank that is charging that; I haven't seen it yet) not only in Thailand but in every country in the world. So hopefully this thread will not only help the OP but everyone else who reads this. Some of us do more traveling than just Thailand.

Any you CAN just walk into your local Schwab branch and just hand them a check. I've done that too. (They won't take cash.) But why would anyone want to do baking in person when it can be done over the internet?

[WhizBang]

I simply just bring CASH

Your attempt at humor is duly noted. I could do that if I wanted to. However, I am not fond of the idea of carrying around thousands of dollars in cash in light of the abundance of pickpockets and the extremely lax hotel security re: room safes and hotel office safes in Thailand.

If you want to avoid fees, Cash is the way to go.

That said, you can get travellers checks in denominations greater than $100. You can order $500 or $1000 travellers checks from your bank.

I have a Chase cc, and yes, I do get hit with fees here.

[WhizBang]

<snip>

And always remember to notify your bank/credit card in advance of your foreign travel itinerary to ensure the card works in foreign locations...you wouldn't want to arrive Thailand with little cash/travelers cheques in hand and find out your cards were being rejected by the ATMs and merchants as that could mess up your holiday.

VERY important point. US Banks are very quick to flag transactions in Thailand as potential fraud. Notifying them in advance of the dates and the destination of your travel will save you some grief.

I do this all the time. Plus, if I should decide to make an unusually large purchase, I call the CC company and tell them in advance of the transaction, giving them full details, especially the approximate amount and the date(s) when I am likely to make the purchase.

Never had a problem when I take precautions.

[Pib]

The other advantage to using a Schwab ATM card is that they'll reimburse the ATM fees (up to $5.00, so they won't reimburse the full 180 baht if you use a bank that is charging that; I haven't seen it yet) not only in Thailand but in every country in the world. So hopefully this thread will not only help the OP but everyone else who reads this. Some of us do more traveling than just Thailand.

When I say your "up to $5 statement" that was the first time I saw a dollar amount associated with ATM reimbursement for a Schwab account....I always thought it was unlimited but it makes sense that there is some limit most likely mentioned in the fine print. Now I have a Schwab debit card but have never had to take advantage of the reimbursement feature yet because I had been using it in AEON ATMs very frequently before they started charging the Bt150 foreign card fee a few months ago and now I use the bank counter withdrawal method using my no foreign transaction fees cards to avoid the ATM Bt150-180 fee. And a little bit of me don't want to unnecessary press the goodwill of the Reimbursement Golden Goose except when I really need to use it which hasn't reached that point yet since I have the counter withdrawal method to use.

So I searched a little bit on the Schwab Bank website and here's a link to their web page that talks about their checking account which the debit card is usually linked to and the fine print takes about how much they reimburse per month....note the last "fine print" paragraph on the webpage which I've quoted below and it basically says their is a $9 limit "per month"...not each transaction...not unlimited....but $9 per month:

** We do not charge any fees for use of any ATM. If you use a machine that is not a Schwab Bank ATM, you may be charged a fee by the ATM operator or any network used. This may include a fee for a balance inquiry even if you do not complete a withdrawal or other monetary transaction. We offer a rebate on these fees assessed by others: For Interest Checking, Regular Checking, and Basic Checking up to first 6 transactions not to exceed $9.00 per statement period. Schwab Bank reserves the right to discontinue or modify the ATM Fee Rebate program at any time. Please see your Schwab Bank Deposit Account Pricing Guide for details.

How did you find out about the $5 max per transaction? A phone call? Maybe the Scbwab Bank Deposit Account Pricing Guide which I didn't research further?

But regardless, it does appear the Schwab card reimbursement is NOT unlimited...however, but, I also think their debit cards can be linked to a Schwab checking, brokerage, or savings account and maybe it makes a difference as to what kind of card a person has and which account it's linked to. However, I think its standard when opening a Schwab Brokerage account the Schwab Bank Checking account is opened with debit card linked to the checking account (all done on one combo form for both accounts)...or that's how it worked for me back in 2011 when opening my Schwab accounts.

STOP...STOP...before finishing this post I logged onto my Schwab account and noticed my checking account is named "Investor Checking" and not the any of the checking account names in Schwab webpage I linked above. So, that reinforces what I mentioned above that different reimbursement rules and maximums per month probably apply depending on exactly what type of Schwab account/debit card you have. I'll probably google some more later to see if I can find anything additional which may help clear things up in my brain regarding my particular Schwab debit card and the particular checking account it's linked to. Cheers.

[Pib]

Ok, after running the wife to Foodland to buy some groceries I searched Schwab some more and they do have different ATM rebate maximums per month, either unlimited or $9/month, based on the type of checking/savings/money market account the debit card was issued under. I have the Investor Checking which is unlimited ATM reimbursement. See this Schwab Pricing Guide on Page 5 for more info and a partial quote is below. Didn't see anything about a $5 max rebate per transaction.

[Carmine6]

Ok, after running the wife to Foodland to buy some groceries I searched Schwab some more and they do have different ATM rebate maximums per month, either unlimited or $9/month, based on the type of checking/savings/money market account the debit card was issued under. I have the Investor Checking which is unlimited ATM reimbursement. See this Schwab Pricing Guide on Page 5 for more info and a partial quote is below. Didn't see anything about a $5 max rebate per transaction.

Capture.JPG

Thanks for posting that. I was thinking I might have to open an account there as I thought I had a 5 ATM fee limit on my Fidelity account. So I went to check and Fidelity also is unlimited. That has to be a change as I'm sure it was limited before or maybe I was confusing the brokerage account and the checking one.

Schwab:

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

"Unlimited fee rebates from any ATM worldwide"

Fidelity:

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-management-account/overview

"Use your free Fidelity® Visa® Gold Check Card anywhere in the world and we will automatically reimburse all ATM fees."

[Pib]

Ok, after running the wife to Foodland to buy some groceries I searched Schwab some more and they do have different ATM rebate maximums per month, either unlimited or $9/month, based on the type of checking/savings/money market account the debit card was issued under. I have the Investor Checking which is unlimited ATM reimbursement. See this Schwab Pricing Guide on Page 5 for more info and a partial quote is below. Didn't see anything about a $5 max rebate per transaction.

Capture.JPG

Thanks for posting that. I was thinking I might have to open an account there as I thought I had a 5 ATM fee limit on my Fidelity account. So I went to check and Fidelity also is unlimited. That has to be a change as I'm sure it was limited before or maybe I was confusing the brokerage account and the checking one.

Schwab:

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

"Unlimited fee rebates from any ATM worldwide"

Fidelity:

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-management-account/overview

"Use your free Fidelity® Visa® Gold Check Card anywhere in the world and we will automatically reimburse all ATM fees."

I noticed in Note 1 of the Fidelity link that Fidelity charges a 1% foreign transaction fee (i.e., they let the Visa 1% currency conversion fee be passed along to you versus Fidelity absorbing it); however, I think I've read in other posts that Fidelity is actually absorbing that fee. I don't know for sure as I don't have a Fidelity debit card, but I do have Schwab debit card they do absorb the Visa 1% currency conversion fee making it a true no foreign transaction fee card.

Some companies like to say "they" don't charge a foreign transaction fee but what they are really saying is "they don't absorb the Visa fee and don't add a fee of their own so technically they are correct in "they" don't charge a fee",,,weasel words in my book."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, AFAIK, the normal checking account that people get is what Schwab calls their High Yield Investor Checking account. I've never seen anything regarding any per transaction or per month limits on their ATM fee rebate with that checking account.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

And they specifically say on the website:

Unlimited fee rebates from any ATM worldwide

http://www.schwabcdn.com/public/file/P-6425867/HYIC_features_and_fees_public_SLS77378_FINAL.pdf

Right now, when I look at the Schwab USA website under their banking section, they appear to show only one checking account currently being offered, and that's the High Yield Investor Checking account I mentioned above. I don't see any other checking account there at present.

BTW, Schwab makes it very easy to move funds into and out of one's brokerage and checking accounts via free ACH transfers to any accounts you decide to link. There is the requirement to submit a paper form to link accounts to the Schwab checking account, but linking external accounts to the Schwab brokerage account can be done entirely online.

Edited April 21, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I noticed in Note 1 of the Fidelity link that Fidelity charges a 1% foreign transaction fee (i.e., they let the Visa 1% currency conversion fee be passed along to you versus Fidelity absorbing it); however, I think I've read in other posts that Fidelity is actually absorbing that fee. I don't know for sure as I don't have a Fidelity debit card, but I do have Schwab debit card they do absorb the Visa 1% currency conversion fee making it a true no foreign transaction fee card.

I believe what Fidelity accountholders have reported here and elsewhere previously is that Fidelity does NOT charge the 1% FCF on ATM withdrawals abroad (despite their website language to the contrary), but they do charge it for foreign purchases.

But like you, I don't have an account with them, so I can't vouch for that from personal experience.

[Pib]

Pib, AFAIK, the normal checking account that people get is what Schwab calls their High Yield Investor Checking account. I've never seen anything regarding any per transaction or per month limits on their ATM fee rebate with that checking account.

The High Yield Investor Checking is the one that comes with the Brokerage account. However, a person can sign-up for other checking/saving/money market accounts at Schwab Bank without opening a Schwab brokerage account like discussed at the Schwab Bank webpage and below is one of the Q&A from that webpage. But personally, since a person does not have to fund/use the brokerage account and the brokerage account comes with better/easier funds transfer setup and transfer capabilities than Schwab Bank checking and savings accounts, I would open the combo Brokerage-Investor Checking accounts. Plus the Investor Checking provides unlimited ATM reimbursements where some of the other Schwab Bank checking accounts limit it to $9/month. By better/easier funds transfer setup & capabilities I mean this can all be done online with the brokerage account using trial deposits where the checking and savings accounts require forms to be mailed in to setup the transfer links....and then a link will appear for use with the checking account....but for the savings no link will appear online but you can call in a transfer. Schwab seems to make funds transfer stuff easier with the brokerage account (hint, hint, they want you to use it) compared to their bank accounts.

Do I need to be a Schwab brokerage customer to do my banking with Schwab Bank?

No, you don't have to be a brokerage customer of CS & Co. to bank with Schwab Bank. However, if you are a CS & Co. client, from time to time you may be eligible for special Schwab Bank offers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, as I noted above, if you go to the main Schwab website, then banking and then choosing checking, it only shows the High Yield Investor account. It doesn't show any other checking account options there...on the main banking page.

Obviously, savings and money market accounts are a different deal.

Do you have some link to some different version of a checking account that Schwab's currently offering?

Edited April 21, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Pib, as I noted above, if you go to the main Schwab website, then banking and then choosing checking, it only shows the High Yield Investor account. It doesn't show any other checking account options there...on the main banking page.

Obviously, savings and money market accounts are a different deal.

Do you have some link to some different version of a checking account that Schwab's currently offering?

Just the links I gave talking about the other types of Schawb Bank accounts...I expect for those other Schwab Bank products a person would need to contact the bank directly via walk-in or telephone as it's pretty obvious Schwab only lightly advertises their banking products; instead they concentrate on their brokerage product. Wouldn't surprise me that Schwab needed to offer more of a variety of checking/savings accounts that "did not" require a person to also open a brokerage account in order for them the get their federal & state banking licenses....and also just to sign-up folks who would not otherwise if they had to open a brokerage account as some folks don't want to have anything to do with trading stocks/a brokerage account (even if you don't have to fund it)....they just want banking products/services.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I had reason to speak with Schwab CS today re some other matters, so figured I'd add on some of the issues that have been discussed here for their answers:

--The Schwab CSR said they currently offer only one checking account, the High Yield Investors version mentioned above, and that it can only be opened in conjunction with their Schwab One brokerage account. The rep said they have no other checking accounts available at present.

--The Schwab CSR, however, said customers can open Schwab's savings account without having to open their brokerage account -- and the savings account does appear to have the same unlimited ATM fee reimbursement feature as the checking account has, as well as no monthly fee or minimum balance.

--The Schwab CSR also confirmed that Schwab would allow a customer to open two different brokerage accounts in the same accountholder's name, if they wanted to. But he stressed that the $500,000 in SIPC protection would be spread among both accounts under the same name, NOT $500K for the first account and another $500K protection for the second account. The SIPC protections would only be separate if the two accounts were held under different ownership names, such as one for an individual, and the other for a husband and wife.

Edited April 21, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

And the Almighty Schwab said, "You will open a brokerage account also even if your only want a checking account with a debit card!" That's OK because they get to wirte the associated commandments. But at least Schwab don't require a person to fund the brokerage account which is good.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, I guess another lesson to be learned here is, never believe what the customer service people tell you..or at least, without checking further. The answer to Schwab's accounts apparently is a fair bit more complicated than I reported above based on the initial CS conversation.

In talking further with Schwab's banking staff, it turns out there are FOUR other Schwab checking accounts that Schwab Bank offers at present, and all of them can be opened right now without having to open a companion brokerage account. But only one of them -- Schwab Interest Checking Plus -- has unlimited ATM fee rebates. The other three checking accounts have the limit of up to $9 in ATM rebates per statement period only.

Turns out, though I didn't know this, Schwab Bank does have its own separate website different from the main Schwab website where the brokerage and the investor checking and savings accounts are detailed.

The Schwab bank website that includes the details of their standalone accounts (no brokerage account required) is here:

http://www.schwabbank.com/checking.do

And the details of the ATM rebates policy for the various accounts is listed here:

http://www.schwabcdn.com/public/file/P-820740/Bank_Pricing_Guide_REG30608-10_FINAL.pdf

With the following excerpt:

But now, there's still another caveat:

I asked the Schwab banking guy to check with his manager, and he did so, to verify that those various standalone Schwab bank accounts are still available for opening today, and they are...

BUT, the banking guy said Schwab is planning to discontinue offering those standalone accounts -- the four listed on the separate Schwab bank website -- as of this June 1. After that, the bank guy said, existing account holders will be able to keep those accounts. But Schwab Bank will cease offering them as new accounts.

So, I stand corrected. And it only took conversations with about a half dozen different Schwab reps to finally get to hopefully the accurate answer.

[Carmine6]

I noticed in Note 1 of the Fidelity link that Fidelity charges a 1% foreign transaction fee (i.e., they let the Visa 1% currency conversion fee be passed along to you versus Fidelity absorbing it); however, I think I've read in other posts that Fidelity is actually absorbing that fee. I don't know for sure as I don't have a Fidelity debit card, but I do have Schwab debit card they do absorb the Visa 1% currency conversion fee making it a true no foreign transaction fee card.

I believe what Fidelity accountholders have reported here and elsewhere previously is that Fidelity does NOT charge the 1% FCF on ATM withdrawals abroad (despite their website language to the contrary), but they do charge it for foreign purchases.

But like you, I don't have an account with them, so I can't vouch for that from personal experience.

I think I end up getting slightly under the prevailing TT rates, though Fidelity's rate seems to be reset much less frequently so I can never make an exact calculation. Often I'll make two withdrawals on different days and though my balance shows the withdrawal instantly, they'll show with the same transaction date and the same dollar amount when they show up. So the rate might be used for two days, or just need a certain change for it to be changed.

Basically, if I change $1,000 at Superrich around the time I do an ATM withdrawal, I end up with maybe 100 to 200 baht more on that $1,000 cash. But net of the transporation costs, it isn't much better. I don't actually do those at the same time so not sure of the difference, other than every time I do them close together it is like 120 baht or 160 baht better on $1,000 for cash. So that sounds like 1/2%, which I assume is due to them building in a slight cushion and not resetting very frequently.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Carmine6

[el jefe]

Well, I guess another lesson to be learned here is, never believe what the customer service people tell you..or at least, without checking further. The answer to Schwab's accounts apparently is a fair bit more complicated than I reported above based on the initial CS conversation.

In talking further with Schwab's banking staff, it turns out there are FOUR other Schwab checking accounts that Schwab Bank offers at present, and all of them can be opened right now without having to open a companion brokerage account. But only one of them -- Schwab Interest Checking Plus -- has unlimited ATM fee rebates. The other three checking accounts have the limit of up to $9 in ATM rebates per statement period only.

Turns out, though I didn't know this, Schwab Bank does have its own separate website different from the main Schwab website where the brokerage and the investor checking and savings accounts are detailed.

The Schwab bank website that includes the details of their standalone accounts (no brokerage account required) is here:

http://www.schwabbank.com/checking.do

And the details of the ATM rebates policy for the various accounts is listed here:

http://www.schwabcdn.com/public/file/P-820740/Bank_Pricing_Guide_REG30608-10_FINAL.pdf

With the following excerpt:

PS0327.jpg

But now, there's still another caveat:

I asked the Schwab banking guy to check with his manager, and he did so, to verify that those various standalone Schwab bank accounts are still available for opening today, and they are...

BUT, the banking guy said Schwab is planning to discontinue offering those standalone accounts -- the four listed on the separate Schwab bank website -- as of this June 1. After that, the bank guy said, existing account holders will be able to keep those accounts. But Schwab Bank will cease offering them as new accounts.

So, I stand corrected. And it only took conversations with about a half dozen different Schwab reps to finally get to hopefully the accurate answer.

And since I was the one who started this by mentioning the $5.00 limit per ATM w/d, I'll complicate things further.

I don't have a "Schwab Bank" checking account. And I certainly don't have a "High Yield Investor Checking" account. My account was earning 0.01%, so I keep almost nothing in there unless I need to w/d cash from a machine that will charge a fee.

When I opened my Schwab brokerage account over 25 years ago, it was linked to an account at PNC Bank. My current Schwab One brokerage account is now linked to a checking account at Bank of New York Mellon. I wouldn't have even known that but because of this thread I just looked at my checks (I re-ordered a new batch 6 months ago so this is current). The checks say "Charles Schwab" and 'Schwab One" but it's definitely a BNY Mellon account. I do everything thru the Schwab website and have never gone to BNY Mellon's. If you care, the routing number on my checks is 031100157.

Some people have also written that their fees are reimbursed at the end of the month. My fees are, and always have been, reimbursed immediately. As soon as the ATM w/d hits my account, the fee reimbursement does too.

At one point when Thailand banks first started charging the 150 baht fee, there was a $5.00 reimbursement limit per withdrawal. it didn't really matter then and I've had no reason to investigate further since then. My account has no monthly limit. I've exceeded the $9.00 limit traveling to Laos and Nepal this year.

And if Schwab was ever going to end the ATM Fee reimbursement, you could have blamed me for being the one who killed the Golden Goose. I was reimbursed well over $1,000 in fees the first few months after the 150 baht fee was first introduced.

[Pib]

And if Schwab was ever going to end the ATM Fee reimbursement, you could have blamed me for being the one who killed the Golden Goose. I was reimbursed well over $1,000 in fees the first few months after the 150 baht fee was first introduced.

$1000 in reimbursement fees!? Let's say a few months is two months. $5 fee per ATM withdrawal would require 200 withdrawals over 2 months/60 days and average of 3.3 withdrawals per day to rack-up $1000 in reimbursements. That would have definitely killed a whole flock of Reimbursement Golden Geese. And let's say the average ATM withdrawal was Bt20,000...200 withdrawals would be Bt4M over 2 months. I want to come live with you.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet

[Pib]

I think I end up getting slightly under the prevailing TT rates, though Fidelity's rate seems to be reset much less frequently so I can never make an exact calculation. Often I'll make two withdrawals on different days and though my balance shows the withdrawal instantly, they'll show with the same transaction date and the same dollar amount when they show up. So the rate might be used for two days, or just need a certain change for it to be changed.

You get the exchange rate set by Visa/Mastercard depending on the logo of your card; Fidelity/banks use the card network exchange rate unless the ATM offers and you accept a lower DCC rate. Visa rates change once every 24 hours tied to U. S. Eastern time... Mastercard rates change usually once per 24 hours, sometimes twice. And on weekends the rate usually stays the same for both days and remember to reference yourself to U.S. date/time when checking the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate Web pages. If you can't get the charge/exchange rate hitting your Fidelity to match the card network rate to within two decimal points then a transaction fee is being charged/passed through to you and/or you are using the wrong date to determine exchange rate given.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet

Edited April 22, 2014 by Pib

[isawasnake]

I have been calling Schwab for free too, via google voice. I am not sure if this is because of Schwab's 1-888 number, or because google voice is now permitting free calls from Asia??.... but I have called Schwab twice now, without paying a dime, which is very very nice. Their customer service is top notch too.

[Pib]

I asked the Schwab banking guy to check with his manager, and he did so, to verify that those various standalone Schwab bank accounts are still available for opening today, and they are...

BUT, the banking guy said Schwab is planning to discontinue offering those standalone accounts -- the four listed on the separate Schwab bank website -- as of this June 1. After that, the bank guy said, existing account holders will be able to keep those accounts. But Schwab Bank will cease offering them as new accounts.

I'm expect Schwab is indeed "planning" to discontinue offering their standalone bank accounts, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I say that because I've been with Schwab from early 2011 and I also opened a Savings account with them but you "can not" get only a monthly estatement from them....they still mail you the paper version of the savings account statement also--you can't turn it off. The savings account is just a standard savings account just like many banks offer and you can move money out of the account up to 6 times per month...it's not any type of fixed term account. Now, you can download a kinda of savings account estatement...but it's not a real estatement.

You can only get a true estatement for their brokerage and checking accounts. I've contacted Scbwab via telephone and account email right after opening the account and at least yearly since about how do I turn off paper statements for my savings account because the donwloadable "kinda of an estatement" I can get provides all the necessary info a person needs. I asked Schwab again just within the last week about turning off the paper version of the statement...they responded quickly and below is a partial quote of their response...basically the same answer they have been giving me for over 3 years now....or said another way they are still planning...the capability will be available soon. I guess in Schwab's dictionary "soon" means something longer than 3 years. I expect there is some underlying federal/statement requirement they have not fully met yet which if met would allow them to turn off the mailing of paper statements for their savings accounts....but they are just not there yet. Of course Scbawb is not alone in still mailing out some statements as I have a small Beneficiary IRA in a small U.S. town credit union that still lives in the world of quarterly paper statements only....estatements is still something on the horizon for them.

Schwab Bank Savings accounts are not yet enabled for online delivery of account statements. Schwab Bank is aware of clients' desire to stop mailings for the Savings account and we hope the paperless capability will be made available soon.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So just to put a finer point on this...

For all those who would like a Schwab debit card with unlimited ATM fee reimbursements worldwide and no foreign currency fee, but DON"T for whatever reason want to have/open a brokerage account with Schwab, here's your opportunity to do so.

You can't open the Schwab Interest Checking Plus account online through the main Schwab website, but you can -- at least for now -- thru the separate Schwab Bank website as listed below.

In talking further with Schwab's banking staff, it turns out there are FOUR other Schwab checking accounts that Schwab Bank offers at present, and all of them can be opened right now without having to open a companion brokerage account. But only one of them -- Schwab Interest Checking Plus -- has unlimited ATM fee rebates. The other three checking accounts have the limit of up to $9 in ATM rebates per statement period only.

The Schwab bank website that includes the details of their standalone accounts (no brokerage account required) is here:

http://www.schwabbank.com/checking.do

And the details of the ATM rebates policy for the various accounts is listed here:

http://www.schwabcdn.com/public/file/P-820740/Bank_Pricing_Guide_REG30608-10_FINAL.pdf

With the following excerpt:

PS0327.jpg

But now, there's still another caveat:

I asked the Schwab banking guy to check with his manager, and he did so, to verify that those various standalone Schwab bank accounts are still available for opening today, and they are...

BUT, the banking guy said Schwab is planning to discontinue offering those standalone accounts -- the four listed on the separate Schwab bank website -- as of this June 1. After that, the bank guy said, existing account holders will be able to keep those accounts. But Schwab Bank will cease offering them as new accounts.

[el jefe]

And if Schwab was ever going to end the ATM Fee reimbursement, you could have blamed me for being the one who killed the Golden Goose. I was reimbursed well over $1,000 in fees the first few months after the 150 baht fee was first introduced.

$1000 in reimbursement fees!? Let's say a few months is two months. $5 fee per ATM withdrawal would require 200 withdrawals over 2 months/60 days and average of 3.3 withdrawals per day to rack-up $1000 in reimbursements. That would have definitely killed a whole flock of Reimbursement Golden Geese. And let's say the average ATM withdrawal was Bt20,000...200 withdrawals would be Bt4M over 2 months. I want to come live with you.

2 is a couple; "a few" is 3, 4, 5?

And my average w/d was probably only 1,000 baht.

Schwab had a problem and mis-coded their reimbursements. When Thai banks first started charging the 150 baht fee, I didn't even know Schwab would reimburse the fee. I had a UOB branch (they weren't charging the fee at first) that I went past nearly every day. I used that machine to avoid the fee. Then I looked at my Schwab statement and there was a fee reimbursement!

Here's how it worked: If I withdrew 1000 baht and the exchange rate was 34, I would correctly have $29.41 deducted from my Schwab account. However, their system didn't realize it was a foreign account and would reimburse the difference between the withdrawal and the next $5 rounded down, as in their system there was no way to w/d any amount other than in multiples of $5.00; the rest had to be the fee. In this case $29.41 less $25.00 meant I got a $4.41 reimbursement of a phantom fee. I usually did that 3 times a day. It took about 90 seconds, far less than the time it took to write this email. So, essentially, I made $12-14 every day, enough to cover the cost of a nice dinner in Chiang Mai for me and my wife. That lasted "a few" months at which point UOB started charging the 150 baht fee. Now I had to pay for dinner. And the Golden Goose still lives.

So, sorry, Pib, my monthly withdrawals were probably only about 100k baht. I lived very well on that and still do. It's not 4 mil but if you want to come live with me, I have plenty of room.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Are you still making that volume of reimbursed ATM withdrawals now?

If not, fine. If so, I'm surprised that Schwab hasn't canceled your account. Needless to say, the activity you described was abusing and mis-using their ATM fee reimbursements.

[Pib]

_{You are saying the Scbwab system couldn't recognize it was a foreign withdrawal and since U.S. ATMs only issue in $5 increments the Scbwab system assumed any difference between a $5 incremental converted value must be an ATM fee. That's kinda a stretch to believe for a few reasons such as:}

_{1. Location coding, to include country of transaction, is included in ATM and Point of Sale (POS) purchase transactions}

_{2. With exchange rates being carried out to six decimals it's highly, highly unlikely any foreign transaction would ever convert to exactly a $5 incremental value (i.e., $30, $35, $40, $900, etc). Probably as likely as winning the lottery. Even if Visa/Mastercard exchange rates were only carried out to 2 decimal points or less still highly unlikely the converted to dollars amount ending up in exactly a $5 incremental value time after time. Foreign ATM transaction when hitting your home country bank with a value such as $30.04, $29.89, $889.99, etc., are the norm; a foreign ATM charge hitting your account say for exactly $30, $900, etc., when taking exchange rates in consideration would be a rare event. Can't believe the Schwab system has a problem dealing with amounts not exactly in $5 incremental values....that would be a major fault in their system....a fault that is not having the same affect on my Schwab account nor have I seen by any other ThaiVisa post other than your post above...but maybe some others will chime in with the same good fortune story.}

_{3. I have done over a hundred ATM withdrawals using my Schwab debit card in Thailand using AEON ATMs and a few Thai bank ATMs, it was always clearly identified as a transaction in Thailand on my Schwab statements/online account, none of the withdrawals ever converted to exactly a $5 incremental value,...and I've never got that "assumed to be a fee since not converting to a $5 incremental value and then Schwab reimbursed me."}

_{4. With all the hundreds, probably thousands of ThaiVisa posts by ThaiVisa members talking about use of their Scbwab card in Thai bank and AEON ATMs I have never seen another post saying this apparent fault in the Schwab system was basically paying them money for an ATM withdrawal when there was no ATM fee.}

_{5. And just because UOB is now charging a Bt150/Bt180 fee (as far as I know they have been charging it for years just like all other Thai banks), what difference would that make in stopping the Schwab system from reimbursing for any converted amount that equating to $5 increment. Highly, highly unlikely either the withdrawal amount of cash your got in hand or the ATM fee would equate to exactly a $5 incremental value. Are they reimbursing you twice now for each ATM transaction which would transmit as the basic withdrawal amount and the fee amount since neither will end in exactly a $5 incremental amount when converted?}

_{Now I have no reason not believe that you didn't do a lot of ATM withdrawals and got a reimbursed for them as there probably was a Bt150/Bt180 fee being applied as all Thai banks have charged the fee for years and now AEON started charging also a few months ago. But what I still don't believe is Schwab was reimbursing you because the withdrawal amount did not convert to exactly a $5 incremental value "and" therefore there must be a fee involved. But anything can happen in this world to some people. If you can post some sanitized/redacted cut-and-pastes from your Schwab account showing they were reimbursing ATM withdrawals not ending in $5 incremental value then that would help greatly in believing your story. I think you are just making an error in reading your Schwab account/statements. But I stand ready to say, "I stand corrected" if you have Schwab statement proof you will share.}

[el jefe]

_{You are saying the Scbwab system couldn't recognize it was a foreign withdrawal and since U.S. ATMs only issue in $5 increments the Scbwab system assumed any difference between a $5 incremental converted value must be an ATM fee. That's kinda a stretch to believe for a few reasons such as:}

_{1. Location coding, to include country of transaction, is included in ATM and Point of Sale (POS) purchase transactions}

_{2. With exchange rates being carried out to six decimals it's highly, highly unlikely any foreign transaction would ever convert to exactly a $5 incremental value (i.e., $30, $35, $40, $900, etc). Probably as likely as winning the lottery. Even if Visa/Mastercard exchange rates were only carried out to 2 decimal points or less still highly unlikely the converted to dollars amount ending up in exactly a $5 incremental value time after time. Foreign ATM transaction when hitting your home country bank with a value such as $30.04, $29.89, $889.99, etc., are the norm; a foreign ATM charge hitting your account say for exactly $30, $900, etc., when taking exchange rates in consideration would be a rare event. Can't believe the Schwab system has a problem dealing with amounts not exactly in $5 incremental values....that would be a major fault in their system....a fault that is not having the same affect on my Schwab account nor have I seen by any other ThaiVisa post other than your post above...but maybe some others will chime in with the same good fortune story.}

_{3. I have done over a hundred ATM withdrawals using my Schwab debit card in Thailand using AEON ATMs and a few Thai bank ATMs, it was always clearly identified as a transaction in Thailand on my Schwab statements/online account, none of the withdrawals ever converted to exactly a $5 incremental value,...and I've never got that "assumed to be a fee since not converting to a $5 incremental value and then Schwab reimbursed me."}

_{4. With all the hundreds, probably thousands of ThaiVisa posts by ThaiVisa members talking about use of their Scbwab card in Thai bank and AEON ATMs I have never seen another post saying this apparent fault in the Schwab system was basically paying them money for an ATM withdrawal when there was no ATM fee.}

_{5. And just because UOB is now charging a Bt150/Bt180 fee (as far as I know they have been charging it for years just like all other Thai banks), what difference would that make in stopping the Schwab system from reimbursing for any converted amount that equating to $5 increment. Highly, highly unlikely either the withdrawal amount of cash your got in hand or the ATM fee would equate to exactly a $5 incremental value. Are they reimbursing you twice now for each ATM transaction which would transmit as the basic withdrawal amount and the fee amount since neither will end in exactly a $5 incremental amount when converted?}

_{Now I have no reason not believe that you didn't do a lot of ATM withdrawals and got a reimbursed for them as there probably was a Bt150/Bt180 fee being applied as all Thai banks have charged the fee for years and now AEON started charging also a few months ago. But what I still don't believe is Schwab was reimbursing you because the withdrawal amount did not convert to exactly a $5 incremental value "and" therefore there must be a fee involved. But anything can happen in this world to some people. If you can post some sanitized/redacted cut-and-pastes from your Schwab account showing they were reimbursing ATM withdrawals not ending in $5 incremental value then that would help greatly in believing your story. I think you are just making an error in reading your Schwab account/statements. But I stand ready to say, "I stand corrected" if you have Schwab statement proof you will share.}

Pib, I was surprised too that Schwab was reimbursing phantom fees for months. When you come over, I'll dig out my 6 year old Schwab statements and show you. Believe me, I'm a CPA, I know how to read the statement.

I now only use my Schwab card a few times a year in Thailand and the US and it's used mainly for when I travel elsewhere.

Were my withdrawals abusive? Maybe. But perfectly legal.

[el jefe]

btw, the hardest part of this, which you didn't question, was doing the math so that the withdrawal amount would create a phantom fee was as close to $4.99 without going over.

[MJCM]

Do traveller's checks still exist?!

There's are ATMs in virtually every street corner in Asia since at least 15 years back.

I hope so, because I still have some worth 6000 Euro's (translated into real money that's 276.000 Thb )

[joealx]

I thought the topic was what to do on a vacation in Thailand? I just closed my BofA account because -- after being free for years -- they stared charging $14 per month unless you meet minimum balance/deposit requirements. And just about no national bank has branches in Vermont.

But maybe you're one of those guys who will use up $3 worth of gas/petrol driving around to save a $

Direct Deposit=no charge. There is a minimum though.

[Pib]

I thought the topic was what to do on a vacation in Thailand? I just closed my BofA account because -- after being free for years -- they stared charging $14 per month unless you meet minimum balance/deposit requirements. And just about no national bank has branches in Vermont.

But maybe you're one of those guys who will use up $3 worth of gas/petrol driving around to save a $

Direct Deposit=no charge. There is a minimum though.

Or maintaining an average daily balance of at least $1,500

No monthly maintenance fee when you meet one of the following requirements each statement cycle:

Have at least one qualifying direct deposit of $250 or more

OR

Maintain an average daily balance of $1,500 or more