Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

[NewlyMintedThai]

What's the point of how much people bring in or keep out and if they express them self about naturalisation, permanent residency or citizenship or not.

Because, apparently, you genuinely believe that the amount of money you've brought into the country should have at least some bearing on your being granted some form of privileged status in Thailand.

I know this because you said that by bringing it here, you have been of "benefit" to the country.

You obviously believe that ฿12,00,000 should render you immune to the "runaround".

You think it should elevate you above other foreigners like some kind of "club class" or something.

It doesn't and it shouldn't.

Perhaps ordinary Thai folk earning 2/300 bht a day might disagree............

I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean. Ordinary Thai folks would be in favor of giving away their country to any foreigner who can scrape together 12 million baht?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[samran]

What's the point of how much people bring in or keep out and if they express them self about naturalisation, permanent residency or citizenship or not.

Because, apparently, you genuinely believe that the amount of money you've brought into the country should have at least some bearing on your being granted some form of privileged status in Thailand.

I know this because you said that by bringing it here, you have been of "benefit" to the country.

You obviously believe that ฿12,00,000 should render you immune to the "runaround".

You think it should elevate you above other foreigners like some kind of "club class" or something.

It doesn't and it shouldn't.

Perhaps ordinary Thai folk earning 2/300 bht a day might disagree............

I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean. Ordinary Thai folks would be in favor of giving away their country to any foreigner who can scrape together 12 million baht?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

55555

Translation for all those wannabe Thai immigrants: hahaha.

Now you know three words.

[samran]

What's the point of how much people bring in or keep out and if they express them self about naturalisation, permanent residency or citizenship or not.

Because, apparently, you genuinely believe that the amount of money you've brought into the country should have at least some bearing on your being granted some form of privileged status in Thailand.

I know this because you said that by bringing it here, you have been of "benefit" to the country.

You obviously believe that ฿12,00,000 should render you immune to the "runaround".

You think it should elevate you above other foreigners like some kind of "club class" or something.

It doesn't and it shouldn't.

Perhaps ordinary Thai folk earning 2/300 bht a day might disagree............

Not that you'd know. You can't even speak to them....

#boredcoffeefdrinkingemoticon

[NewlyMintedThai]

What's the point of how much people bring in or keep out and if they express them self about naturalisation, permanent residency or citizenship or not.

Because, apparently, you genuinely believe that the amount of money you've brought into the country should have at least some bearing on your being granted some form of privileged status in Thailand.

I know this because you said that by bringing it here, you have been of "benefit" to the country.

You obviously believe that ฿12,00,000 should render you immune to the "runaround".

You think it should elevate you above other foreigners like some kind of "club class" or something.

It doesn't and it shouldn't.

Perhaps ordinary Thai folk earning 2/300 bht a day might disagree............

Not that you'd know. You can't even speak to them....

#boredcoffeefdrinkingemoticon

Really? Are you kidding? The guy who thinks he is owed Thai citizenship because he takes care of his family (like 3 billion other fathers/husbands around the world) can't even bother to learn the language?

Too much.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Still no one has answered my simple question regarding ME. Not interested in under the table stuff, opening companies and all that shit. Thai folk can be accepted in my country quite easily, but I, in my situation cannot. know one of the farang hi-so's here can give me a LEGAL answer to someone like me who does not pay taxes BECAUSE I AM RETIRED.

Gawd, it is difficult to get a simple answer, but they do not care about someone in my position, sad really........but, expected.......

Tell me, how does a Thai move to the uk and become a citizen. You seem to think it is so easy. Take us through the steps and let's compare....

Sounds perfectly "simple" to me:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156993/New-law-demands-20-000-salary-marry-foreigner.html

Yet more discrimination from the British against the unemployed!

[kaveh]

naturalization by marriage is one of those funny reasons to give citizenship to aliens! more funniest than investor programs in most countries that's like selling citizenship!

[NewlyMintedThai]

What hi-so answer? Registering a holding company is hi-so?

And I didn't even know you didn't have any local language skills -- so you're disqualified (fairly, in my opinion) right off the bat.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[rgs2001uk]

In answer to post 242.

55555

Translation for all those wannabe Thai immigrants: hahaha.

Now you know three words.

Heres another three, som nam na, lets keep it simple, how about two, chang man.

[samran]

In answer to post 242.

55555

Translation for all those wannabe Thai immigrants: hahaha.

Now you know three words.

Heres another three, som nam na, lets keep it simple, how about two, chang man.

banyar orn seems to be most appropriate.

[metisdead]

A number of bickering nonsense and trolling posts have been removed as well as the replies.

[Maggusoil]

I'd love to see Thailand introduce a Thai language test the equivalent to what Australia or the UK introduce for PR and citizenship. Doubt many of you blokes would get past 'Singha' and 'Chang'.....

A friend of mine is an MFA certified official translator @ court etc yet she (European) is no nearer to gaining citizenship/ID/Passport than when she first applied four years ago. If she had known what was <or wasn't!>coming she never would have started.

has she had her final interview yet?

I blame Suthep.

My wife had her final interview with the citizenship committee last November. It had been a three year process - mainly wait (as expected) - to that point. From what I can gather, a 6 month-ish wait for ministerial and then HM sign off following that.

Suthep has thrown a major spanner in the works though - so none of that is happening. Would be interesting to see how far she has gotten but the queue has ground to a halt for everyone.

I know this may sound weird, but from living in Australia, which is available to any man with the most money, Thailand's sovereignty laws seem to reflect the way they have beaten off all invaders over the centuries.

These days, military invasions are rare and going to get rarer. Unless it is an annexation of something very small next to something very large.

Like the Ukraine.

In that light, I can understand their regulations when it comes to economic, social and cultural invasions. I may not like them and they may not suit me, but I respect where they are coming from. I am happy that my daughter is one of them even though I may never be.

Thai women should get more respect for providing the whole country with a fantastic income, from MEN, all over the world. What a resource.

[nisakiman]

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Yes! This!

I don't want to be a Thai citizen, but I would love to be able to stop the 90 day stuff. I wouldn't mind a multi-year extension either. When I took my wife to the US she got a Green Card that was good for 10 years! But back over here and I'm always thinking, "Jeez, immigration this month or next?" It's always there, lurking.

Spot on!

I'm a Brit married to a Thai but I live in Spain.

We jumped through a mountain of hoops both in Thailand and Spain.

In Spain it took 5 months to get her registered as a resident there, good for 5years.

She also has full free national health cover as my wife.

Can work if she want's to.

Can own property.

Can travel anywhere in the Schengan countries - NOT the UK and was refused a visa to accompany me on a holiday to meet my family and friends.

No 90 day reports

No re-entry permits - can come and go as she likes, no questions.

In 5 years she will need to renew her ID card - like everyone else has to but it will be a routine matter.

Never mind Thai citizenship, let us also jump the hoops and then grant us a Foreigners resident's permit, good for 5 or more years. Allow such Foreign residents to do any work without a WP. Allow national health cover (if the Thai qualified for it - same as the UK requirement).

I think this would give most of us what we want, no 90 day reports, visa extensions and re-entry permits and no work permits or job restrictions.

Like the OP, I wondered why Thai wives don't band together and demand this!

Clearly, it would be the Farang husbands that would need to do all the organisation, but the wives are the only ones qualified to campaign - they are THAI, it's their country, their problem.

Same as that, except we live in Greece. 5 year residence permit (which wasn't actually that difficult to get) and she can get a tax number, work, own land, move throughout Schengen freely, and do almost everything a Greek citizen can. She doesn't have to become Greek - she keeps her Thai passport. But she has residency here, and as long as she:

a) doesn't break the law in any serious way,

doesn't become a burden on the state,

then she can stay here without let or hindrance.

That, to me seems fair and reasonable, and it would be nice if Thailand could adopt a similar attitude to foreign nationals who wish to live with their spouses in Thailand.

[Acharn]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Yes. As I understand it, these attitudes go back to the extreme nationalism of Plaek Phibulsongkhram, during the 1940s. I have read that it was dangerous to be Thai-Chinese during the post-war years. I'm not sure if things got a little better when Sarit kicked that bunch out, but by the time I got here under Thanom I wasn't aware of special danger for Chinese. Anyway, the restrictions and hurdles are mostly to keep Chinese out, and seem to be applied to Westerners mostly in order to be consistent. Also, some of the older generation among Palace circles have some xenophobia against Westerners because they see our political ideas as subversive.

[Neeranam]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Yes. As I understand it, these attitudes go back to the extreme nationalism of Plaek Phibulsongkhram, during the 1940s. I have read that it was dangerous to be Thai-Chinese during the post-war years. I'm not sure if things got a little better when Sarit kicked that bunch out, but by the time I got here under Thanom I wasn't aware of special danger for Chinese. Anyway, the restrictions and hurdles are mostly to keep Chinese out, and seem to be applied to Westerners mostly in order to be consistent. Also, some of the older generation among Palace circles have some xenophobia against Westerners because they see our political ideas as subversive.

Interesting. I was told that the restrictions were put in place as the Japanese were the threat - marrying locals and buying up the land.

[sustento]

Aliens?

Who idiot wants to marry with E.T. or Miss Ripley's enemies ???

Dear Lord it's groundhog day...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)

[sustento]

Again, makes sense but times like this are over, colonialism is the past and limited ownership of land for personal use should not be a problem. Actually I see a lot of potential land waisted for no reason.

Sure no problem with restrictions about owning land, but the rules as they are now are xenofobic at least.

The OP was about equal treatment for Farang married with Thai and yes you can buy a passport for around 3 million baht I've heard.

You keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that you can buy a Thai passport for 3 million baht or is it just rumour?

You can certainly buy an indefinite visa to the UK with the ability to apply for British citizenship after 5 years for £1 million.

http://www.high-net-worth-immigration.com/hnw-immigration-blog/bid/132359/How-to-Obtain-UK-Citizenship-by-Investment

Edited April 21, 2014 by sustento

[takkatan in the land]

in a country where police are doing like sneaky gangs and its people assume corruption because they are consious that it's impossible to erradicate so they vote the less corrupted party, would be little complicated to fight the convenience marriages, wouldn't be?

[Tchooptip]

land

that could possibly be why the government dont want rich alians coming here to buy up the land that poor thais cant afford

Once they have citizenship they are not rich aliens anymore, they are rich Thai!

[Tchooptip]

In my observation, Thai people are generally selfish, so look after number one, so, as is often said "its our country", and can only be owned by thais,(generally) if you allow naturalisation, where is the money in that ? Nothing to be earned from it, no more visa money etc.

It would be interesting to know the actual amount of money earned every year from retirees paying for annual visa and re-entry permits. To say nothing of the loss of money to neighbouring countries for those that have to do 20 minute border crossings every 90 days etc.

As said before, we are tolerated nothing more. If we didnt supply a source of income then it would change for the worse rapidly in my opinion.

Don't know how many countries are similiar to Canada's policy of shutting down Gov't pensions if you remain outside of the country more than 6 months or if you advise the Gov't you will be residing in Thailand they quickly grab 40% claw back on the pensions. Honesty=40% clawback deceit= 100% pension loss.

WHAT? If one does not live full time in Canada this person does not receive 100% of his pension?

[kjhbigv]

I would not want Thai citizenship (I can live with the Visa hassle), all I would like is for Thailand to let me and my future wife/family own just one property as a home as equal partners/owners.

Not asking much!

But then again....this "loophole" sorts out a lot of Thailand's social issues.

Why rock the boat?

Hence why all my assets will stay in the UK.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sustento]

"Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?"

The simple answer is 'because they don't "

[ben2203]

Samran's done it. Why not ask him?

Samran is Thai by blood, the law stipulates that anybody born to either a Thai mother or Thai father whether born in Thailand or not is thus Thai from birth.

If he was born outside of Thailand it is quite common not to have any documentation relating to Thailand as embassies are pretty scarce in major capital cities etc.

What everyone is talking about here is being naturalised through marriage, this is an entirely different kettle of fish and requires going through an application process, similar to in the UK where they have to go through the home office application to be natualised, usually what happens is you lose the nationality of your birth country but I know of instances where an American was naturalised but kept his American Nationality too, he was told to change his name to a Thai name so it was complicated for him to travel, I have no reason to disbelieve him otherwise.

One becomes Thai in one of three ways, by blood, jus sanguinis or jus soli though the latter has caused problems in the past. I read of a non Thai, (i.e. neither mother or father being Thai though realistically Thai people consider people with both parents Thai, Thai.) having Thai nationality through birth here but when she gained employment in Phuket her nationality was taking away from her as other people had problems with it but she had Thai nationality from bith up until she was 18, she probably was told like most Thais are in foreign countries to choose one nationality or the other, though at this current time, dual nationality is becoming more relaxed all over the world.

Naturalisation is a different process but there is a process in place to become naturalised, in Asia not just Thailand, it's basically who you know and not what you know though knowing the law is important as sometimes people will give you the runaround.

[ben2203]

I would not want Thai citizenship (I can live with the Visa hassle), all I would like is for Thailand to let me and my future wife/family own just one property as a home as equal partners/owners.

Not asking much!

But then again....this "loophole" sorts out a lot of Thailand's social issues.

Why rock the boat?

Hence why all my assets will stay in the UK.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Another issue, one should bear in mind, is that often things here in Asia can be unpredictable, let's say today's government accepts foreigners owning land, but will tomorrows? Sometimes, you have to ask yourself, is it wise or even worth it? Basically all that you have lived and worked for can be happily rented out in the UK to provide you with steady income, if you chose then to move to the UK, you would not have to start up all over again, should you wish to sell that house, you could bring that cash into the kingdom to spend or to invest etc. There are also plenty of other countries where you can setup business or investment.

[samran]

Samran's done it. Why not ask him?

Samran is Thai by blood, the law stipulates that anybody born to either a Thai mother or Thai father whether born in Thailand or not is thus Thai from birth.

If he was born outside of Thailand it is quite common not to have any documentation relating to Thailand as embassies are pretty scarce in major capital cities etc.

What everyone is talking about here is being naturalised through marriage, this is an entirely different kettle of fish and requires going through an application process, similar to in the UK where they have to go through the home office application to be natualised, usually what happens is you lose the nationality of your birth country but I know of instances where an American was naturalised but kept his American Nationality too, he was told to change his name to a Thai name so it was complicated for him to travel, I have no reason to disbelieve him otherwise.

One becomes Thai in one of three ways, by blood, jus sanguinis or jus soli though the latter has caused problems in the past. I read of a non Thai, (i.e. neither mother or father being Thai though realistically Thai people consider people with both parents Thai, Thai.) having Thai nationality through birth here but when she gained employment in Phuket her nationality was taking away from her as other people had problems with it but she had Thai nationality from bith up until she was 18, she probably was told like most Thais are in foreign countries to choose one nationality or the other, though at this current time, dual nationality is becoming more relaxed all over the world.

Naturalisation is a different process but there is a process in place to become naturalised, in Asia not just Thailand, it's basically who you know and not what you know though knowing the law is important as sometimes people will give you the runaround.

Good post but just a couple of points.

- there is no forcing to give up the foreign citizenship, but there is a limp wristed attempt to say you I intend to, but it is unenforceable.

- dual nationality hasn't been an issue under Thai law since 1992. The law only provides a window for a child with a foreign parent to give up Thai nationality between 20 and 21. If they don't there is no penalty.

- who you know has actively been discouraged when applying for Thai citizenship. We could have wheeled out the big guns. Former ministers, deputy permanent secretaries and a utility regulator or two. Sons and daughters of some of Thailand's richest families. It was actively discouraged and our application has been considered on its merits. Hardly a hi so application.

And that is the whole point. The process is straight forward, transparent for the most past (except for the timeframe of a the ministerial sign off). The special branch police fall over themselves to be helpful. But for some members here, stepping off their barstools is all a bit too hard for them.

[ben2203]

If citizenship could be easily obtained through marriage, how many marriage shops would we see open across the Kingdom? There's already a load of dodgy student visa places where a visa can be bought for between 15,000 - 20,000. I am sure people would then just offer to marry someone for say 100,000 to enable said person to get a citizenship.

Though naturalisation is possible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_nationality_law#Naturalisation

Now, who wants to assimilate?

[ben2203]

Samran's done it. Why not ask him?

Samran is Thai by blood, the law stipulates that anybody born to either a Thai mother or Thai father whether born in Thailand or not is thus Thai from birth.

If he was born outside of Thailand it is quite common not to have any documentation relating to Thailand as embassies are pretty scarce in major capital cities etc.

What everyone is talking about here is being naturalised through marriage, this is an entirely different kettle of fish and requires going through an application process, similar to in the UK where they have to go through the home office application to be natualised, usually what happens is you lose the nationality of your birth country but I know of instances where an American was naturalised but kept his American Nationality too, he was told to change his name to a Thai name so it was complicated for him to travel, I have no reason to disbelieve him otherwise.

One becomes Thai in one of three ways, by blood, jus sanguinis or jus soli though the latter has caused problems in the past. I read of a non Thai, (i.e. neither mother or father being Thai though realistically Thai people consider people with both parents Thai, Thai.) having Thai nationality through birth here but when she gained employment in Phuket her nationality was taking away from her as other people had problems with it but she had Thai nationality from bith up until she was 18, she probably was told like most Thais are in foreign countries to choose one nationality or the other, though at this current time, dual nationality is becoming more relaxed all over the world.

Naturalisation is a different process but there is a process in place to become naturalised, in Asia not just Thailand, it's basically who you know and not what you know though knowing the law is important as sometimes people will give you the runaround.

Good post but just a couple of points.

- there is no forcing to give up the foreign citizenship, but there is a limp wristed attempt to say you I intend to, but it is unenforceable.

- dual nationality hasn't been an issue under Thai law since 1992. The law only provides a window for a child with a foreign parent to give up Thai nationality between 20 and 21. If they don't there is no penalty.

- who you know has actively been discouraged when applying for Thai citizenship. We could have wheeled out the big guns. Former ministers, deputy permanent secretaries and a utility regulator or two. Sons and daughters of some of Thailand's richest families. It was actively discouraged and our application has been considered on its merits. Hardly a hi so application.

And that is the whole point. The process is straight forward, transparent for the most past (except for the timeframe of a the ministerial sign off). The special branch police fall over themselves to be helpful. But for some members here, stepping off their barstools is all a bit too hard for them.

Yeah, I was talking from a naturalisation perspective, Thai by birth, whether you have another nationality or not is that Thai by birth.

From a naturalisation perspective (I believe), One should have somebody who can provide a character reference at least, though I understand what you are saying, people will think that you bought your way in etc.

People, actually ask me that even family, and I always say yeah, it was 20 baht, the cost to copy the documents, it actually cost more than that though as I needed to get other documents officially recognised etc.

What it seems to me to be is that a small amount of people here just like to argue the toss, it could be that they don't speak Thai so this causes the issues with understanding how the law works, though there are translated versions etc so people should just say Thanks Samran, nice one bud, I will check it out rather than attempt to belittle him, just saying, outsider's point of view.

The process also involves a small amount of language proficiency but I read that some people weren't even willing to do that . My belief is that some people just want to say this is wrong, that is wrong etc and rant basically.

I mean the idea is you are becoming Thai, that would mean you are able to read and write in Thai at least, of course ethnicity wise you are not Thai but even a large number of non Thai people can speak, read and write to some proficiency, perhaps the people who argue with Samran about this should rethink that??

An English friend of mine yesterday did just that talking about universities in Thailand and getting paid 1,000 baht per hour for English Language Instruction was deeply offensive to him, this discussion went on for at least two hours and got to the point where he was basically screaming and shouting at me why I should change Thai laws, like I can .

Edited April 22, 2014 by ben2203

[speedtripler]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

If I was a Thai national, I would resent you becoming a Thai citizen because you have already admitted to ripping off the tax system.

As if every thai paid their taxes

[transam]

I would have thought that a farang bringing cash into LOS was an asset to LOS, never taking a single baht from LOS. Where as a farang paying taxes in LOS means he is taking money from LOS to do what he/she wants with it, and not necessarily spending that cash in LOS.

[yourauntbob]

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

If I was a Thai national, I would resent you becoming a Thai citizen because you have already admitted to ripping off the tax system.

I like to consider it adapting to the culture

[metisdead]

Off topic and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.