Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?

EvilDrSomkid · April 20, 2014

This question has been covered before. I cannot find the post right now, but Camarata's Guide to PR/Citizenship mentions it somewhere.

The short version is that for alien females married to a Thai male can get citizenship fairly easily. Zero Thai language requirement.

However, naturalizing alien males was (still is?) considered a NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT. This came under discussing during the 50s IIRC when the issue was the Chinese married to Thai(Chinese) women.

It is possible to become a Thai citizen for an alien male, but quite tough. However, I don't think it is an option for me as my country takes away my citizenship if I actively take another.

YeahSiam · April 20, 2014

Its the old saga. They don'want western foreigners, they want our money only.

/quote]

Can't blame them. So many drifters, alcoholics and undesirables turn up here and think their money gives them the right to run riot.

Besides, do people REALLY want to be Thai? Can't imagine ANY scenario in which I would desire a Thai passport or citizenship.

Haven't people SEEN the direction in which the country is going?

laolover88 · April 20, 2014

I just LOVE being an ALIEN. Makes my wife laugh every day!

Wakes up. Tickles ears. How's my little alien today?

And my daughter's initials are ET

Edited April 20, 2014 by laolover88

Rimbuman · April 20, 2014

This question has been covered before. I cannot find the post right now, but Camarata's Guide to PR/Citizenship mentions it somewhere.

The short version is that for alien females married to a Thai male can get citizenship fairly easily. Zero Thai language requirement.

However, naturalizing alien males was (still is?) considered a NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT. This came under discussing during the 50s IIRC when the issue was the Chinese married to Thai(Chinese) women.

It is possible to become a Thai citizen for an alien male, but quite tough. However, I don't think it is an option for me as my country takes away my citizenship if I actively take another.

I didn't expect to be the first one to stir this subject but to my opinion it can not be talked about enough.

The Mrs got her passport, it wasn't easy but it could be done and it has been done. She has the same rights as everyone else, she can vote, work, apply for social benefits, become prime minister if she would have the aspirations.

Would this be similar for us when we are approved for Thai citizenship? I am aware of the sexist rules they have in place here in Thailand.

pigeonjake · April 20, 2014

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

Is it definitely 40,000 baht? If so can I make voluntary additional tax payments to bring me up to 40,000 baht? Also could I make back payments for the last 3 years. ESL teacher so salary is below 40,000 baht. I make 52,000 but that's with private classes. Thanks.

i would say that if your became a thai,,,

then the 52,000 you make would my freind become about 15,0000 as a thai

jake

Rimbuman · April 20, 2014

Its the old saga. They don'want western foreigners, they want our money only.

/quote]

Can't blame them. So many drifters, alcoholics and undesirables turn up here and think their money gives them the right to run riot.

Besides, do people REALLY want to be Thai? Can't imagine ANY scenario in which I would desire a Thai passport or citizenship.

Haven't people SEEN the direction in which the country is going?

Undesirables can be dealt with like anywhere else and this is no valid reason to discriminate agains all foreigners.

Yes, I would like to be Thai, my life is here, we have a nice house, we enjoy our lives here and I am not going to leave.

The problems Thailand has, won't be forever.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rimbuman

AnotherOneAmerican · April 20, 2014

Fact is, you can.

The caveat is that you have to have been working with work permits and paying tax continually for three years to be eligible to apply under the Thai spouse category (as well as few other things like charitable donations).

I'm not trying to justify the existing state of play - I think spouses should be given automatic work rights and a predictable path to citizenship. But the Thai rules of residency and citizenship seem heavily skewed in favour of those who work and contribute in Thailand, rather than say investors.

Fact is only 5000 baht is required as donation. 5000 baht application fee. Very cheap in world standards.

Actually easier for me to get Thai citizenship than Australian, for example. Pay tax on 40,000 baht for 3 years is hardly a lot. There is no requirement anymore for certain qualifications in Thai language.

OP, do you really think that Bob the binman from Bristol should get citizenship purely because he married Noi from the Pink Pussy Bar?

If they allowed the married foreigner to work in any occupation, then the requirement would be fair.

As they tightly limit the employment options of the foreigner then it is not fair.

Paying the tax isn't the problem, having to get a work permit, then work in allowed employment is the problem.

NoshowJones · April 20, 2014

Perhaps a national attitude towards "aliens", we are tolerated, thats it......

How right you are Trans, we are tolerated, that's why I can't understand those posters who keep saying we are guests in this country. I was invited to someones home at Christmas as a guest, and I was made welcome, not tolerated.

EBlair48 · April 20, 2014

To be fair, the USA does not even lets Thais visit the country without jumping through all kinds of hoops including medical tests and waiting online and being interviewed at 6:00 am...

Yet, all you need do in the USA is give birth to apply for citizenship.

all kinds of hoops...

( Rather like obtaining a driver's licence, work permit of visa extension in LoS )

JoePai · April 20, 2014

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

CaptHaddock · April 20, 2014

You have to look at this question from the point of view of the government of Thailand, not from your own, self-centered point of view. So, what does Thailand have to gain by offering citizenship to those foreigners whose demonstrable contribution to the society is, so far, marrying a Thai woman? Not much would be my guess. In some other countries, like Mexico and Japan, marrying a local does not get you any nearer citizenship at all. It does in the US, but the US has a history of being an immigrant country and the culture still reflects that to some degree, even though the reality has changed.

Rimbuman · April 20, 2014

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

Well dear Joe, if you see it like that than consider you yourself a pain the where the sun don't shine for Thailand if you reside in Thailand. You'd do Thailand a favor if you pack your bags and leave

AnotherOneAmerican · April 20, 2014

You have to look at this question from the point of view of the government of Thailand, not from your own, self-centered point of view. So, what does Thailand have to gain by offering citizenship to those foreigners whose demonstrable contribution to the society is, so far, marrying a Thai woman? Not much would be my guess. In some other countries, like Mexico and Japan, marrying a local does not get you any nearer citizenship at all. It does in the US, but the US has a history of being an immigrant country and the culture still reflects that to some degree, even though the reality has changed.

It isn't about contribution and worth. it's about the basic human right for a family to be allowed to live together in peace.

This human right is agreed by every civilized country on the planet.

(I don't have a dog in this race as I'm Thai by birth)

@JoePai

This isn't a discussion about immigrant families, this is a discussion about a foreigner marrying a citizen.

Edited April 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

MobileContent · April 20, 2014

I know of several expats that married to a local, paid huge taxes and in no time they were Thai citizens.

evadgib · April 20, 2014

At the very least i'd like to see PR or ILR becoming automatic/normal for those of us that live here, along with access to Govt-priced healthcare based on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient.

Just my 2p.

EBlair48 · April 20, 2014

If you are a citizen you have rights, like to your property. Thailand is all about cheating foreigners out of their money. No way are they going to change the status quo that western men cn be counted on to regularly buy property in Thai wives' name, and then lose all rights to it. The entire immigration act and FBA are a systemic scam ripoff.

I agree, I ain' no stink'n guest in this country, I pay taxes and my business provides employment- wellpaid employment for four workers, so I will voice my rather harsh opinions of it..

pigeonjake · April 20, 2014

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

Well dear Joe, if you see it like that than consider you yourself a pain the where the sun don't shine for Thailand if you reside in Thailand. You'd do Thailand a favor if you pack your bags and leave

i agree with joe on this one,

bit of a pain having to go the imigration,

but if you dont have money to be here, then you cant be here,

why should a country take you in with nothing, just because you married a thai,,,

jake

bkkjames · April 20, 2014

I know of several expats that married to a local, paid huge taxes and in no time they were Thai citizens.

Ok, I will play along. been here 15 years paying taxes every year, married for 7, have 2 half thai sons...the question is how much extra did these expats pay under the table?

bigbamboo · April 20, 2014

I just LOVE being an ALIEN. Makes my wife laugh every day!

Wakes up. Tickles ears. How's my little alien today?

And my daughter's initials are ET

At least your wife won't get suspicious when you're chatting on your mobile.

"Just phoning home, dear."

thailandbeachisland · April 20, 2014

Without even talking about citizenship we are not even allowed to live here without showing our axx every 3 months...

They treat me like monkey si I treat them like monkeys.

Rimbuman · April 20, 2014

I think the Thai's have got it right - look at all the trouble/problems foreigners bring to the UK for examples.

Well dear Joe, if you see it like that than consider you yourself a pain the where the sun don't shine for Thailand if you reside in Thailand. You'd do Thailand a favor if you pack your bags and leave

i agree with joe on this one,

bit of a pain having to go the imigration,

but if you dont have money to be here, then you cant be here,

why should a country take you in with nothing, just because you married a thai,,,

jake

Dear Jake,

UK and other EU countries, didn't deal with undesirables efficiently, actually in many cases supported undesirable behavior.

The good part of these immigrants suffer because of the bad ones.

This is due bad management of governments in the past and reason why ultra rightwing parties gain so much in popularity. This is not subject of the OP and therefore should be neglected. End of story.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rimbuman

sustento · April 20, 2014

Perhaps a national attitude towards "aliens", we are tolerated, thats it......

'Alien' is a legal word used by both the UK and the US governments to define someone who is not a citizen of that country in exactly the same way as it is used in Thailand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)

sustento · April 20, 2014

But the other way round Mrs.Trans can in the UK.

I am confused, British, Scottish, UK. What Nationality are you?

If you're a citizen of the UK then your nationality is British

pigeonjake · April 20, 2014

Why doesn't Thailand offer naturalization to alien married with Thai?ok im not alowed my opinion,