EDITORIAL
A country full of guardians and rebels but not values
The Nation

In the end politics and idealism will have to be put to one side if Thais are to get over the current divide

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's problem is we have too many "Guardians of democracy" and too few people to really "observe" democracy. The anti-government movement is "guarding democracy" and so is the pro-government network, which is organising "counter-rallies" to protect a "democratically-elected" administration which is facing a possible Constitution Court knock-out.

We also have too many "rebels". The embattled government has branded its opponents camping on the streets "rebels" and, rather ironically, some pro-government activists have worked themselves into a rebellion mode by saying they wanted to "separate" the country. The separation talks were taken seriously by the military but played down by the government as merely sarcastic and reflective of political frustration.

These are bad signs. When a country has masses proclaiming themselves as "guards" or willing "rebels", many things happen. Rules of law are no longer held sacred. Opinions of the opposite side become something that faces contempt at best and clampdown at worst. Lives are important only when they are lives of those who share your ideology.

It usually begins this way. Idealism gets political activists started, making them think they fight for an ideology. They want to "guard" something meaningful or "rebel against" something bad. Most of the times they will end up unknowingly destroying the ideology that used to drive them. "Democracy activists" will stop listening to opposing opinions. "Guardians of democracy" will cross many lines doing their jobs, doing whatever deemed necessary including relying on undemocratic methods.

In Thailand, democracy has been "guarded", but not really understood. The delicate balance between the importance of ballot boxes and the necessity of having effective measures to keep the winners emerging from the ballot boxes has never been protected. The 1997 "People's Constitution" sought to foster that delicate balance, but we all know what happened to it.

Idealistic fights can lead to liberation, or they will just liberate unlawful acts like firing at citizens' homes or setting off explosives at political gatherings. In Thailand, there is too much romanticism and too little sensibility, which is why romaticism often crosses the line and become fanaticism.

Everybody needs to take a step back and look at themselves in the mirror. The right and wrong in politics are slippery, but they have overshadowed everything. Thais are treating them as the ultimate truth which shall be protected at whatever costs. The result is, Thais have become a nation of questionable moral values. One death matters more than another. One injury is more painful than another. One road blockade or besiege of a state agency is more acceptable than another.

We need to ask ourselves why a country flooded with "guardians" and "rebels" are losing the real sense of what is truly good and truly bad. A question that is getting louder and louder is whether we are not ideologically that different, but are driven more by egos. Are we fighting for values, or are we just trying to avoid being wrong? And no, fostering values and claiming to be right are not the same thing. True fights for values sometimes involve admitting your own mistakes.

Politics can tell us to a certain extent what is right and wrong, but to know what is right and wrong ultimately, pol?itics must be put aside. In other words, we can guard something to a certain extent, but in the end, what needs the most guarding is our own conscience. We can rebel against something to a certain extent, but we must be careful not to make it a rebellion against our own moral values.


-- The Nation 2014-04-21

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

Look at the thread concerning Khao Yai National Park where it's stated that Thailand will lose face if the park is put on the list of world heritage sites in danger, is that the only concern ?

Well truly good is allowing people to cast their vote no matter what party you support

Truly bad is stopping people from voting no matter what they support.

Set a date for late July which gives every party time to get their act together and just do it..

Time for the little bloke in the park to pack up and go home.

Point made now let the people decide!

This is what happens when a society becomes sheeple without the ability to look at the situation in front of them and judge it, and realise when they are being lied to and manipulated.

Manipulation happens everywhere, but a free press, free internet and free expression all add up to trying to throw light on secrets and wrong doing.

But alas not Thailand. So now, the evil shinawatras will be removed by pearly white Suthep, and Thailand apparently will return to the happy days of yore.

Ain't that going to be a nasty joke.

Big problem here is that no Thai will take a step back and look in the mirror, that could bring on a scenario of 'face loss' if they realise they have actually been fighting for the wrong camp.

The country is at its most polarized thanks to Thaksin.

No Thai is going to change and risk losing face even to themselves.

They would rather fight to the death than to lose face on such a scale.

That is why some form of civil war is all but imminent.

Well truly good is allowing people to cast their vote no matter what party you support

Truly bad is stopping people from voting no matter what they support.

Set a date for late July which gives every party time to get their act together and just do it..

Time for the little bloke in the park to pack up and go home.

Point made now let the people decide!

and so you seek to perpetuate exactly what the editorial was talking about. Either your disagree or it went in one ear and out the other. I favour the in the one ear and out the other as it's consistent with the tunnel vision that the editorial talks about.

To voice a dissenting opinion...in a democracy...is a good thing...often leads to valuable social changes...

To make demands by use of violence...is not the democratic way...

This country is still trying to figure this out...having some immature and selfish political leaders...does not help the cause...

Could say the same for several other countries...

The only time the Thais look in a mirror is when they want to see if their faces are white enough , their hair is styled enough or their eye makeup perfect - I would suggest that Thai people spend too much time looking in their mirrors and that is exactly the problem. They are much more interested in themselves to such a point of vanity that it has become culturally revolting to see. You cannot go anywhere these days without seeing them either mirror looking, eating food or sleeping and all of that in their work places -what an example of Thainess!

Say what you like about Thai people's political nouse, but at least they have the guts to get up and march.

In my own homeland, Britain, the population remains resolutely supine despite the unrelenting hardship and humiliation heaped unfairly upon it by a bunch of millionaires.

Pity they can't bottle some of the Thai fighting spirit and export it to the cowed masses in ailing "democracies" like the UK and the US. They sure need it.

Edited April 21, 201412 yr by Krataiboy

Well truly good is allowing people to cast their vote no matter what party you support

Truly bad is stopping people from voting no matter what they support.

Set a date for late July which gives every party time to get their act together and just do it..

Time for the little bloke in the park to pack up and go home.

Point made now let the people decide!

Clearly you are one of the red brainwashed sheeple who believes in 1 principle of democracy and couldn't care less about the other 14....A vote without the necessary reforms will just lead to more of the same corruption and nepotism as before. REFORMS BEFORE ELECTIONS !

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

I think you don't understand much of Thailand and even less to the traditional ways which have a pretty difficult set of values, not too difficult to older Europe. Maybe it is not easy to understand for someone from a new country.

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

I think you don't understand much of Thailand and even less to the traditional ways which have a pretty difficult set of values, not too difficult to older Europe. Maybe it is not easy to understand for someone from a new country.

Modern humans might also have trouble understanding Neanderthals. Different set of values and all.

Edited April 21, 201412 yr by PaullyW

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

I think you don't understand much of Thailand and even less to the traditional ways which have a pretty difficult set of values, not too difficult to older Europe. Maybe it is not easy to understand for someone from a new country.

Yes, similar to how I might not also understand wild monkeys in the rain forest. I agree.

To accept it, is the first step to improvement.

I think that I am about to disagree with everyone, sorry

Thailand did have a set of values and strangely enough a history of democracy is one aspect of the culture, This is not the first time that Thailand has lost its way but it faces a different set of hurdles in finding its heart again.

controversial, lol

The problem now is that Thai culture is mingling with western culture at an increasing rate, and in the process taking on the worst of both. The last time that Thailand hit rock bottom was at the time of first contact with what was then, Western culture. The Burmese has burnt the old capital, Buddhism was stagnate and in moral decline - cultural values were lost and with the disorder of the Shanga, so was the grounding of democracy biased on consensus decision making which virtually every male was exposed to for at lease a period in their life. This was turned around and western concepts of science entered in to the education and life of at least some of the population.

This part of the world has never had a culture of values. Similar to the Chinese mentality, the most important components in the system are patronage and allegiance to a leader along with wealth/FACE accumulation. Nobody cares about values in Thailand. What a foreign concept.

Look at the thread concerning Khao Yai National Park where it's stated that Thailand will lose face if the park is put on the list of world heritage sites in danger, is that the only concern ?

yes it is , it will slow down the rape of the forest for the important people, how we can make money if not cut rosewood. .????

I think that I am about to disagree with everyone, sorry

Thailand did have a set of values and strangely enough a history of democracy is one aspect of the culture, This is not the first time that Thailand has lost its way but it faces a different set of hurdles in finding its heart again.

controversial, lol

The problem now is that Thai culture is mingling with western culture at an increasing rate, and in the process taking on the worst of both. The last time that Thailand hit rock bottom was at the time of first contact with what was then, Western culture. The Burmese has burnt the old capital, Buddhism was stagnate and in moral decline - cultural values were lost and with the disorder of the Shanga, so was the grounding of democracy biased on consensus decision making which virtually every male was exposed to for at lease a period in their life. This was turned around and western concepts of science entered in to the education and life of at least some of the population.

Don't feel too bad many people disagree.

Values here typically run to.......... how much ? thats it.

The only time the Thais look in a mirror is when they want to see if their faces are white enough , their hair is styled enough or their eye makeup perfect - I would suggest that Thai people spend too much time looking in their mirrors and that is exactly the problem. They are much more interested in themselves to such a point of vanity that it has become culturally revolting to see. You cannot go anywhere these days without seeing them either mirror looking, eating food or sleeping and all of that in their work places -what an example of Thainess!

dont forget,

their iPhones are also competing for mirrors as they take the number 1 spot for selfies on instagram and facebook

oh, they have values all right

those values are quite low

Well truly good is allowing people to cast their vote no matter what party you support

Truly bad is stopping people from voting no matter what they support.

Set a date for late July which gives every party time to get their act together and just do it..

Time for the little bloke in the park to pack up and go home.

Point made now let the people decide!

Once again you propose to let Thailand continue on it's journey to the most corrupt country in the world. going from 87 to 101 is not good enough for you is it?

Now if I am wrong tell me how your proposal will help or do you just not give a sh-t about Thailand just what you can get out of it?

Bear in mind that before this current impasse occurred is when the country slid from 87 to 101 in the corruption scale. That was after an election carried out just like you propose to do now.

It usually begins this way. Idealism gets political activists started, making them think they fight for an ideology. They want to "guard" something meaningful or "rebel against" something bad. Most of the times they will end up unknowingly destroying the ideology that used to drive them. "Democracy activists" will stop listening to opposing opinions. "Guardians of democracy" will cross many lines doing their jobs, doing whatever deemed necessary including relying on undemocratic methods.

I highlighted part of it because it

Kind of reminds me of the PTP in the house when the Democrats tried to speak.

I think that I am about to disagree with everyone, sorry

Thailand did have a set of values and strangely enough a history of democracy is one aspect of the culture, This is not the first time that Thailand has lost its way but it faces a different set of hurdles in finding its heart again.

controversial, lol

The problem now is that Thai culture is mingling with western culture at an increasing rate, and in the process taking on the worst of both. The last time that Thailand hit rock bottom was at the time of first contact with what was then, Western culture. The Burmese has burnt the old capital, Buddhism was stagnate and in moral decline - cultural values were lost and with the disorder of the Shanga, so was the grounding of democracy biased on consensus decision making which virtually every male was exposed to for at lease a period in their life. This was turned around and western concepts of science entered in to the education and life of at least some of the population.

I completely agree with you.

Farongs imposing their values on Thailand has done nothing to help maintain the Thai values. I am indeed fortunate in that my wife has Thai values. She takes excellent care of me in fact I wish some times she would cut it back a bit. I am not an invalid. In return I see that all her needs are met and she is able to be a contributing member to her family. The old fashioned Thai value of looking out for each other in a family. Not that popular now.

Being replaced by western materialism and self centeredness.

The anti-government movement is "guarding democracy"

No.

The anti-government movement is attempting to overthrow democracy!

They are no more than the guardians of their own greedy and exploitive existence.

Thank god they're losing.

That was beautifully expressed, thoughtful and considerate ..

Well done, Well done ....

Well truly good is allowing people to cast their vote no matter what party you support

Truly bad is stopping people from voting no matter what they support.

Set a date for late July which gives every party time to get their act together and just do it..

Time for the little bloke in the park to pack up and go home.

Point made now let the people decide!

they cant-- as the outcome will not be in their favour @: