Older Americans repatriating to the USA -- where is good?

[jaideeguy]

Just to reply in general to this thread I lived in NY and Florida for over 50 years in my opinion if you are on a limited budget I doubt if you can find a place that has what Thailand can offer. The are only 2 reasons I can see to move to the USA one is quality of health care especially if you have Medicare and the other is if you have young children you have better school choices!

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Well, I got both of those, but you left out a few other reasons to return...........

The blazing heat and air pollution for 5 or 6 months out of the year,

corruption on every level,

immigration BS.

and I could go on, but my brain is fried at the end of another blazing hot day

[thailiketoo]

Well, I got both of those, but you left out a few other reasons to return...........

The blazing heat and air pollution for 5 or 6 months out of the year,

corruption on every level,

immigration BS.

and I could go on, but my brain is fried at the end of another blazing hot day

There are lots of places in Thailand that have no pollution, no blazing heat or corruption and no immigration BS.

It's you not Thailand. I could go on but I'm enjoying a cool breeze of the sea and my wife is making BBQ tenderloin of pork sandwiches for dinner with potato salad and yogurt and kiwi for dessert.

If I had the same problems as you I'd go home in a minute.

[jaideeguy]

"There are lots of places in Thailand that have no pollution, no blazing heat or corruption and no immigration BS."............

Really?? Where in LOS can you live without blatant corruption on every level, immigration BS??

I'll accept that there are a few less polluted places in LOS than northern Thailand and the heat is relative.

I'm not Thai bashing, but can anyone say that the corruption is not there and that immigration BS is fun??

'If I had the same problems as you I'd go home in a minute.'

I'm working on that, but I've dug a deep hole here with my Thai family, real estate, animals etc. and it's not that easy to just fly away from it.

Enjoy your pork tenderloin sandwich.......

Edited May 9, 2014 by jaideeguy

[thailiketoo]

"There are lots of places in Thailand that have no pollution, no blazing heat or corruption and no immigration BS."............

Really?? Where in LOS can you live without blatant corruption on every level, immigration BS??

I'll accept that there are a few less polluted places in LOS than northern Thailand and the heat is relative.

I'm not Thai bashing, but can anyone say that the corruption is not there and that immigration BS is fun??

Enjoy your CP chemically raised pork tenderloin sandwich.......

It's you. I spend less than an hour at immigration each year and never any problems or corruption. I live on the ocean so no pollution and a sea breeze all the time. The pork is great I buy it from a farmer who comes around in his truck every day. Like I said. If I was you I'd go someplace else. Try the San Juan islands. I used to live in Friday Harbor and Oak Harbor and some other places around there. More sun than Seattle.

[Jingthing]

Again this joint ain't a Thailand sucks so you better run home thread. There are reasons to stay and reasons to leave. This is about where to live if you do go back to the USA. For whatever reason

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Edited May 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[jaideeguy]

Sorry for my little rant and will try my best to stay on topic JT...........it's just been another super hot day and that is my #1 reason for looking for an alternative while I can still survive the stress of moving my family to a place where they would feel sabai and be able to breath clean air, get a decent education and I can get affordable [hopefully free] new generation medical for my condition. And, I'm one of the 99% that can't afford a house on the beach.

LOS has been good to me for the last 13+ years but at 67 years of age my rose tint has faded from my glasses and I am thinking that Thailand is not a country for old men both before, during and after death.

[Jay Sata]

Detroit. Cheap property and it can't get any worse.

Becoming a hub of "middle eastern" people with burkas and turbins. Bitter cold winters. High taxes.

Massive urban blight and "white flight." LINK

In 1980 there were 300,000 union auto workers in Detroit. Today there are fewer than 30,000.

Detroit filed for bankruptcy but it didn't solve its ills. California is probably next. LINK

TEXAS has a balanced budget!! LINK

Yes you can say that about Central and some parts of urban Detroit but what about the northern suburbs such as Troy or Bloomfield Hills. There is the Upper Peninsula and Saugatuk and Mackinak Island.

[NeverSure]

Detroit. Cheap property and it can't get any worse.

Becoming a hub of "middle eastern" people with burkas and turbins. Bitter cold winters. High taxes.

Massive urban blight and "white flight." LINK

In 1980 there were 300,000 union auto workers in Detroit. Today there are fewer than 30,000.

Detroit filed for bankruptcy but it didn't solve its ills. California is probably next. LINK

TEXAS has a balanced budget!! LINK

Yes you can say that about Central and some parts of urban Detroit but what about the northern suburbs such as Troy or Bloomfield Hills. There is the Upper Peninsula and Saugatuk and Mackinak Island.

If you get far enough away to escape the blight, home prices are too high. Taxes are too high in all of Mi. You get bitter cold winters. I'd stay clear out of the entire Great Lakes region.

[NeverSure]

The culture of the US is to own, not rent. But as mentioned before, it seems that when people won't or don't have the credit to buy, they rent and put a pressure on rental supply.

Right now with interest rates and prices in many areas low, you can actually buy a house and the payments will be about 1/2 what the rental price would be. A lot of investors are starting to buy these houses for that reason.

Also after the crash, these ten year old homes are selling for about 1/2 of replacement cost.

Texas is the 4th fastest growing state in the US. It is business friendly and has a balanced budget. JUST AS SOON as the surplus of homes is absorbed, the value of homes is going to double because that's what it costs to build a new one.

Look at this house. Even at full price with 20% down the payments including taxes and insurance would be about $650 per month but it would rent for $1,200. Investors are starting to snap these up. LINK

[NeverSure]

BTW, that is an American home, not a Thai house. It has full Western bathrooms and a full Western kitchen with a range and dishwasher, etc. etc. It has central heat and aircon, a two car garage, safe water and sanitary sewer, underground utilities, no litter, no garbage smells and on and on.

And it includes the land.

Edited May 9, 2014 by NeverSure

[daboyz1]

BTW, that is an American home, not a Thai house. It has full Western bathrooms and a full Western kitchen with a range and dishwasher, etc. etc. It has central heat and aircon, a two car garage, safe water and sanitary sewer, underground utilities, no litter, no garbage smells and on and on.

And it includes the land.

Fort Worth is actually a pretty nice place these days. It's not the sh!t kicker town it used to be.

[Groongthep]

I have to admit the very IDEA of TEXAS kind of freaks me out (other than Austin).

I couldn't agree with you more. I lived in Austin years ago and it was a great town. Unfortunately, it has become quite expensive for that very reason.

Why NeverSure cannot accept any place other than the north central part of Texas as having any characteristics making it worth living in is beyond me. Someone who has experienced the international diversity of travelling and living in Thailand would be bored to death there.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Why NeverSure cannot accept any place other than the north central part of Texas as having any characteristics making it worth living in is beyond me. Someone who has experienced the international diversity of travelling and living in Thailand would be bored to death there.

The topic is "Older Americans repatriating to the USA -- where is good?"

It is not about whether any other country is better, including Thailand.

It has also developed into an understandable cost of living discussion.

I know the US like the back of my hand. Name me a place that is better than N. Central Texas in all areas including weather, housing costs, taxes, safety, diversity (with 6 million people there is something for everyone.)

Go ahead. Name it and I'll bust it.

[thailiketoo]

The culture of the US is to own, not rent. But as mentioned before, it seems that when people won't or don't have the credit to buy, they rent and put a pressure on rental supply.

Right now with interest rates and prices in many areas low, you can actually buy a house and the payments will be about 1/2 what the rental price would be. A lot of investors are starting to buy these houses for that reason.

Also after the crash, these ten year old homes are selling for about 1/2 of replacement cost.

Texas is the 4th fastest growing state in the US. It is business friendly and has a balanced budget. JUST AS SOON as the surplus of homes is absorbed, the value of homes is going to double because that's what it costs to build a new one.

Look at this house. Even at full price with 20% down the payments including taxes and insurance would be about $650 per month but it would rent for $1,200. Investors are starting to snap these up. LINK

http://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/for-more-people-the-american-dream-doesnt-include-a-home-of-their-own/2014/03/01/0c88002c-97e5-11e3-8461-8a24c7bf0653_story.html

Homeownership, once a cornerstone of the American Dream, has taken a big hit in public esteem, according to a poll conducted by The Washington Post and the Miller Center at the University of Virginia. In the past three decades, the number saying owning a home is “very much” how they define the dream has fallen to 61 percent, down from 78 percent in a 1986 Wall Street Journal poll

International Home Ownership, Percent. Spain, 85 %. Slovenia, 82 %. Ireland, 77 %. Norway, 77 %. Israel, 71 %. Belgium, 71 %. UK, 69 % USA 64%

http://www.statisticbrain.com/percent-of-americans-who-own-their-home/

[thailiketoo]

-snip-

Why NeverSure cannot accept any place other than the north central part of Texas as having any characteristics making it worth living in is beyond me. Someone who has experienced the international diversity of travelling and living in Thailand would be bored to death there.

The topic is "Older Americans repatriating to the USA -- where is good?"

It is not about whether any other country is better, including Thailand.

It has also developed into an understandable cost of living discussion.

I know the US like the back of my hand. Name me a place that is better than N. Central Texas in all areas including weather, housing costs, taxes, safety, diversity (with 6 million people there is something for everyone.)

Go ahead. Name it and I'll bust it.

Texas is OK except for the people. A good example above. San Juan islands or Spokane or many places in Florida. Florida homestead law is not in Texas. That is the big Florida advantage. Or there is Colorado, that's where good Texans go when they die. And don't forget all the new laws in Colorado and Washington State that Texas does not have.

Edited May 10, 2014 by thailiketoo

[IMA_FARANG]

MY parents (now both passed away) lived for a while in a retirement community of rented trailers in a small (relatively) town in Florida near the Orlando, Florida area.

Close enough to the city and shopping to drive to easily, but far enough to be out in the country and Orange groves.( that was 30 years ago now).

I visited them then and liked the area.

A retirement trailer park, no one under 60 years of age allowed to live there.

Not perfect, but a nice place to settle into.

If everything goes bad in Thailand, that area might be where I'll end up.

[NeverSure]

The culture of the US is to own, not rent. But as mentioned before, it seems that when people won't or don't have the credit to buy, they rent and put a pressure on rental supply.

Right now with interest rates and prices in many areas low, you can actually buy a house and the payments will be about 1/2 what the rental price would be. A lot of investors are starting to buy these houses for that reason.

Also after the crash, these ten year old homes are selling for about 1/2 of replacement cost.

Texas is the 4th fastest growing state in the US. It is business friendly and has a balanced budget. JUST AS SOON as the surplus of homes is absorbed, the value of homes is going to double because that's what it costs to build a new one.

Look at this house. Even at full price with 20% down the payments including taxes and insurance would be about $650 per month but it would rent for $1,200. Investors are starting to snap these up. LINK

http://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/for-more-people-the-american-dream-doesnt-include-a-home-of-their-own/2014/03/01/0c88002c-97e5-11e3-8461-8a24c7bf0653_story.html

Homeownership, once a cornerstone of the American Dream, has taken a big hit in public esteem, according to a poll conducted by The Washington Post and the Miller Center at the University of Virginia. In the past three decades, the number saying owning a home is “very much” how they define the dream has fallen to 61 percent, down from 78 percent in a 1986 Wall Street Journal poll

International Home Ownership, Percent. Spain, 85 %. Slovenia, 82 %. Ireland, 77 %. Norway, 77 %. Israel, 71 %. Belgium, 71 %. UK, 69 % USA 64%

http://www.statisticbrain.com/percent-of-americans-who-own-their-home/

The US just went through a major housing crash. Those that didn't lose their homes to foreclosure may easily have found themselves upside down, owing more than the house was worth. Of course that's discouraging.

Additionally unemployment shot up and many lost their jobs and couldn't make house payments.

Now the tide is turning and even the worst hit areas like Phoenix, Las Vegas and Texas are rebounding. If you want a really good deal on a house there now you have to move on a new listing.

I see that the new listing that I linked above has gone from new listing to active contract meaning that there is offer and acceptance and they are waiting for contingencies to me met. Those are like appraisal, house inspection, and all that has to complete before it can close.

So it's probably sold.

[craigt3365]

MY parents (now both passed away) lived for a while in a retirement community of rented trailers in a small (relatively) town in Florida near the Orlando, Florida area.

Close enough to the city and shopping to drive to easily, but far enough to be out in the country and Orange groves.( that was 30 years ago now).

I visited them then and liked the area.

A retirement trailer park, no one under 60 years of age allowed to live there.

Not perfect, but a nice place to settle into.

If everything goes bad in Thailand, that area might be where I'll end up.

I know JT doesn't like the idea, but I've yet to find a climate that I'd enjoy year round. Hawaii would probably be pretty close, but I don't want to be isolated on an island like that. I was actually born there....

The idea of a 55 and older community came to me from a couple who had retired early and was trying to figure out how to keep from working! 555555

They bought a manufactured home in a community outside Phoenix. Very cheap price, great security so they could lock it up and leave whenever they wanted with no worries, some activities there, quiet, etc. Not 100% my cup of tea, but I like the idea of a home base and then be able to pick and leave for 3-4 months. Easier to do with a condo, harder to do if you have a home (which I desire).

This would make places like the desert cities in the SW a potential. When it gets hot, pack up and head out. Normally required for 3 months.

[thailiketoo]

MY parents (now both passed away) lived for a while in a retirement community of rented trailers in a small (relatively) town in Florida near the Orlando, Florida area.

Close enough to the city and shopping to drive to easily, but far enough to be out in the country and Orange groves.( that was 30 years ago now).

I visited them then and liked the area.

A retirement trailer park, no one under 60 years of age allowed to live there.

Not perfect, but a nice place to settle into.

If everything goes bad in Thailand, that area might be where I'll end up.

Right outside of Orlando.

The 1998 Kissimmee tornado outbreak of February 22–23, 1998, was a devastating tornado outbreak, the deadliest tornado event in Florida history, that is sometimes known as the The Night of the Tornadoes.^[1] Affecting the I-4 corridor of Central Florida, including the Greater Orlando area, the tornadoes—among the strongest ever recorded in Florida—produced F3 (in some cases, near-F4) damage, killed 42 people, and caused 260 injuries. The previous record for the highest tornado death toll in Florida history was 17 on March 31, 1962. In all, 12 tornadoes touched down, one of which was long lived and tracked for nearly 30 miles (48 km). The first major, F3 tornado of the outbreak came at around 11:40 pm in Winter Garden, near Windermere in Orange County, killing three people. The deadliest and most destructive tornado of the night struck the Kissimmee–St. Cloud area, where 25 people were killed, and produced near-F4 damage. Only two other tornadoes, both rated F4, in 1958 and 1966 produced more intense damage in Florida.^[2] Another F3 hit in Seminole County, near Sanford, and in Volusia County, killing 13. The last tornado of the night was a weak F1 that hit the town of Cape Canaveral in Brevard County.

The coast of Florida has hurricanes and the interior has tornadoes. The year I left I sat through 4 hurricanes. Not pleasant. The same problem in coastal areas of Texas. 9200 Texans killed by hurricanes. U.S

13 killer tornadoes tear through north Texas; at least 6 dead and dozens injured The swarm of twisters late Wednesday started with hail 'the size of golf balls' and destroyed homes and cars in Granbury and other towns, according to reports.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-videos-emerge-north-texas-tornadoes-article-1.13455641.1345564#ixzz31HeRWpxp

Edited May 10, 2014 by thailiketoo

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Crime is a concern anywhere in the world,

But the amount of concern varies by location. For example, people get robbed everywhere in the US, but that stops few from going outside wearing simple jewelry such as a gold wedding band. Expats living in many south american cities write of never going outside wearing or carrying anything of value and having a 'dummy wallet' with enough money to satisfy a robber.

[ItDontMeanAThing]

My choice would be a university town with a population under 200k close enough to a city for overnight trips but far enough there would be no commuters. Having lived in the tropics, southern california, Vegas and downstate Illinois, I'd like a climate with mild four seasons, though could handle anyplace if there was only one season where is was fracking unpleasant to go outside.

[thailiketoo]

I have VA insurance and that would be a problem in Arizona. The VA has been under fire in recent weeks, ever since critics contended that administrators in Phoenix kept an off-the-books list to conceal long wait times as 40 veterans died waiting to get an appointment.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VETERANS_AFFAIRS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-19-56-16

[jmccarty]

Sorry for the bad format above. I wrote the part starting with ... Are they even legal ...

*****

Anyway, back to the idea that many people are motivated by the economics of medical care and the fact that you need to be in the U.S. to use Medicare, this little factoid might throw some ice cold water on that idea:

Adding to the problem is a struggling Social Security program and big gaps in Medicare that have caused the average couple to amass $220,000 in extra medical costs during retirement.

(From a promotional ad from newsmax.com)

Did you get that? 220K dollars cash (presumably in today's dollars) out of pocket even with Medicare!

Arguably it might often be cheaper to pay everything out of pocket in Thailand (or another lower medical care cost country) and come out way ahead!

The plot thickens or sickens, whichever you like.

Now for me the medical access and cost thing isn't yet my main motivating interest in leaving Thailand, but it's definitely a factor and likely to be a bigger factor later.

It may very well be that a whole lot of us older Americans are totally screwed economically by health care costs no matter where we live.

That number could apply only to those who make cheap choices in medicare coverage. One more time:

A is free but covers only care that requires and overnight hospital stay.

B for most people is about $104 and covers doctor visits and office procedures, but with a deductible and co-pay.

RX is about $25 and covers prescription drugs but with a co-pay for the more expensive patented ones.

C also known as medicare advantage will cover more, depending what is chosen from a menu. It is purchased from a private insurer and heavily subsidized by the government. It will also have deductibles and co-pays.

F is medigap and pays all of the deductible and co-pays that the others miss. If you have F you never pay a dime for health care.

A,B,RX and F-Medigap cost me about $270 or $280 a month and I never pay anything else for health care.

Thinking about this a little more, maybe that 220K figure isn't that bad.

Why?

People often live decades after retirement age.

It's for a COUPLE, so half that for each person.

So annualized not so shocking an amount.

Most medical money is spent end of life ... who cares by then if you die broke?

It's an average.

If lucky, it's less.

You still need some luck though.

This decades of life after retirement is disturbing for some of us. Unless my wife either dies or I can figure out how to chase her off with divorce, life is already hell on earth on my time off of work!

She would love to live in the US, I see no way to survive and at 47, soon 48, need at least another 20 years before my own retirement account will have enough to get me by for maybe 10 years on a very cheap existence. So in reality, as long as I am alive and I'm married, I need to keep my mind clear and focused and just work until I drop dead.

I only worked in the US while I was in the army as an enlisted man for 3 years, then about a year at low hourly rate work. SS and medicare would be zero for me so I would be in worse condition than an illegal immigrant with regard to benefits of any kind if I went there at 65. Employment for someone else there, never happen, probably ever again. Except for McD's!

Good conversation for some, never happen for some of us others.

Edited May 10, 2014 by jmccarty

[Jingthing]

That's an excellent point. You do need a minimum number of working credits over your life to be eligible for elderly Social Security and Medicare.

[Jingthing]

My choice would be a university town with a population under 200k close enough to a city for overnight trips but far enough there would be no commuters. Having lived in the tropics, southern california, Vegas and downstate Illinois, I'd like a climate with mild four seasons, though could handle anyplace if there was only one season where is was fracking unpleasant to go outside.

I understand the appeal of such places but so do a lot of other people and being smaller towns the housing choices are more limited. Thus they can be on the expensive side.

[KonaRain]

I bought land in Kona..cheap! right above Kailua Kona..surrounded by million dollar properties..

we have a very equable climate..not many changes..though we have every climate except desert dunes and Arctic.. something for everyone..THE HEALTHIEST LIFESTYLE IN AMERICA..Ironman Central.. I'm disabled, no worries.. people are great..an influx of OPTOMISTIC tourists everyday.. no. 1 beach in some worlds... (Mauna Kea)..etc. no ballet, but a varied island the size of Connecticut.. with a windward side, and a leeward side, reachable in a half hour or so..no visa runs and no stinking Florida 'canes.. let's hope.. I used to play in Colo with some Texans who played with Tracy Nelson and Hendrix, who were both here..( Tracy more recently) Texas is a nice place to visit when get Island Fever..'cept the BigIsland... no have.... Da Fevah..

our culture is growing..many artisans, glass blowing...wood turning..painting, pottery..

more latah..gotta sleep.. You people are the bes'(t).. Aloha

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KonaRain]

I like the dummy wallet..

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[jellydog]

Crime is a concern anywhere in the world,

But the amount of concern varies by location. For example, people get robbed everywhere in the US, but that stops few from going outside wearing simple jewelry such as a gold wedding band. Expats living in many south american cities write of never going outside wearing or carrying anything of value and having a 'dummy wallet' with enough money to satisfy a robber.

I was going to make that point earlier in the thread but thought, ah, forget it. Crime is always a concern to one degree or another, but much, much more so in some areas. South America is a perfect example. And not only enough money to satisfy a robber but also enough to satisfy a cop.

If this guy from Hawaii keeps on I may have to check it out when I turn 65.

[jmccarty]

I bought land in Kona..cheap! right above Kailua Kona..surrounded by million dollar properties..

we have a very equable climate..not many changes..though we have every climate except desert dunes and Arctic.. something for everyone..THE HEALTHIEST LIFESTYLE IN AMERICA..Ironman Central.. I'm disabled, no worries.. people are great..an influx of OPTOMISTIC tourists everyday.. no. 1 beach in some worlds... (Mauna Kea)..etc. no ballet, but a varied island the size of Connecticut.. with a windward side, and a leeward side, reachable in a half hour or so..no visa runs and no stinking Florida 'canes.. let's hope.. I used to play in Colo with some Texans who played with Tracy Nelson and Hendrix, who were both here..( Tracy more recently) Texas is a nice place to visit when get Island Fever..'cept the BigIsland... no have.... Da Fevah..

our culture is growing..many artisans, glass blowing...wood turning..painting, pottery..

more latah..gotta sleep.. You people are the bes'(t).. Aloha

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sounds like a nice place. Thought us Haole's were not really welcome in the village communities that are affordable in those islands?

[jaideeguy]

Hawaii is #1 on my list and I'm actively checking on affordable real estate, but finding that the RE prices are maybe 5X what they are here and once you're there, the food prices are up to 10X higher than here...........forget eating out, as even McDonalds is 2X Thai prices.

Altho once settled and you have a little soil, you can grow your own [whatever], as the climate and soil are so fertile.

10 years in the jungles there taught me that. And if you still have any marketable skills, then the wages are 10X what you would get here. I'm hoping that I can survive there!!